Good remains triumphant over Evil

rapping aint gunna change the world, but it may give me an oppertunity to do what i can. from your last post though i realise you have no idea of what its like to be born into a family that has little to nothing and was at one point and time homeless. you also have no idea how unless you get a full scholarship your not going to get a higher education then highschool. money makes this world go round. if your born in it, then your going to be alright, if not, well then you end up like alot of people i know do.

job places dont give you a test to find out if your smart or not, you give in an application. they see high school diploma and thats it. reguardless of how smart you are they assume that your not as smart or as hard working as the people who went to college.
"hows a man suppose to survive by working at burger king? ***** he aint!
"
sure its so easy to say they are lazy, but did you ever live it? and i dont mean have some financial problems here and there, i mean living check by check to the point you have to decide if you want to give up your phone or food for a couple nights because you cant fully play for the bills or get kicked out the appartment you lived in out on the street?

i never once said you were the problem, i said what your doing probably isnt enough, thats all. i didnt say you were wrong to help, im glad you help, i just dont believe its enough. providing for kids is obviously ruff. my point is that why should we make kids when there are so many kids out there that arent being raised. the parents are more concerned with their drug habit then feeding their children. how can we make a family knowing this? thats what i dont understand.

but i guess if he worked hard enough that eventually he could make ends meet? well around here at minimum wage which is some of the only jobs avalible to people who have a low education is about 6 something. in order to survive off of that pay and make what is considered poverty level you would have to work about 88-90 hours a week, and thats if your single. minimum wage is more like teenager wage.

thats at 30,000 a year, which around here is considered poverty beyond belief. mainly because if you have an appartment that rent cost 2000, WITH electric, heat and the works, that would pretty much kill your entire yearly pay. with about 6000 dollars to spair for food, car repairs, gas, car bills, phones bill. plain and simple your not living off of minimum wage.

so what kind of "chances" are people getting? and who in the hell is giving them these chances because i sure dont see them anywhere.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
and every person like you makes it that much farther away.

but i guess you cant grasp the concept of a person who isnt greedy and works for the whole instead of themselves. cant really argue any further then that then.

Never said I was part of the problem huh? Right ... keep telling yourself that.

rapping aint gunna change the world, but it may give me an oppertunity to do what i can. from your last post though i realise you have no idea of what its like to be born into a family that has little to nothing and was at one point and time homeless. you also have no idea how unless you get a full scholarship your not going to get a higher education then highschool. money makes this world go round. if your born in it, then your going to be alright, if not, well then you end up like alot of people i know do.

Now you claim to know my past history as well? My last post say's nothing of the struggle's I've had to deal with and am dealing with still. I'm not rich. I'm not well off. I don't even have a high school diploma. I dropped out at the 9th grade and earned my GED less then 6 month's after going to a government funded trade school. Don't tell me about hardship's. And yes, I COULD go get a college education even with a lowly GED, as can anyone else if they WORKED for it. So get off your high horse pal.

job places dont give you a test to find out if your smart or not, you give in an application. they see high school diploma and thats it. reguardless of how smart you are they assume that your not as smart or as hard working as the people who went to college.
"hows a man suppose to survive by working at burger king? ***** he aint!
"

Really now? I've managed to provide for a family of four working jobs like that. My best paying job was only $12hr. Nothing to be overly proud of. But guess what. WE did survive off that and continue to survive off that. And I've done just about every crap job there is in my area, not just fast food joint's. Again, get off your high horse.

sure its so easy to say they are lazy, but did you ever live it? and i dont mean have some financial problems here and there, i mean living check by check to the point you have to decide if you want to give up your phone or food for a couple nights because you cant fully play for the bills or get kicked out the appartment you lived in out on the street?

I DO live check by check. Sometime's I DO have to make a sacrifice here and there. As of right now I'm in debt up my arse. The people that used to live downstair's from me were paying only $400 something for rent. Three individuals working in the household. Guess what happened. They never paid anything, just bought whatever they wanted for entertainment. Now they're living in a hotel. Evicted because they never had their priorities straight. Same hold's true for ANYONE living check by check. You've got alot to learn young one.

i never once said you were the problem, i said what your doing probably isnt enough, thats all. i didnt say you were wrong to help, im glad you help, i just dont believe its enough. providing for kids is obviously ruff. my point is that why should we make kids when there are so many kids out there that arent being raised. the parents are more concerned with their drug habit then feeding their children. how can we make a family knowing this? thats what i dont understand.

Untill you've had children of your own, your point of view upon this is plainly ignorant. Why should I put myself out of having a child of my own just because someone else would rather do drug's then take care of their children? Call DSS if there's a grave problem there. That's what these thing's were created for. I've had to call DSS once myself. It's not as hard as you might think it is. You don't believe I'm doing enough? Screw you bud. Sorry if I don't waste my time and rap.

first off you as a whole, your not a problem, but your attitude that things cant get better anytime soon, thats a problem.

how did you afford to go to college, loans? how are you paying those loans off with such low wages? and your wife, (im assuming your married) does she have the same kind of job you have?

what it sounds like is that your actually not doing too good, in fact, your in trouble as far as money wise goes. i just hope nothing happens where the check by check lifestyles something happens and then you cant even support them. but idk maybe you enjoy that kind of life living check by check and wondering if you will have enough to pay the bills, but personally i think that watching an oil company make 10 billion profit when people can hardly live life and have to live like you did check by check isnt right.

but anyway, unless your actually finacially stable now to the point where you dont have to worry at all i think this doesnt prove much. but anyway when you dropped out, were you living with your parents? if so how were they financially doing. i have a friend that dropped out to get her GED, unfortunately she wasnt as lucky as you because her parents couldnt afford to keep her around so on her 18th birthday they kicked her out of the house, shes homeless for now, one of the people im doing everything i can for to help. she was in her mid junior year and i have no idea why she would drop out.

but anyway, how are you doing now as far as providing?

[edit on 20-2-2006 by grimreaper797]

Look at this planet. Take a good long hard look. Nothing is changing for the better anytime soon. Be realistic.

I never went to college, which was evidently clear in my last post when I said I COULD goto college. My wife, doesn't work. She's a stay at home mom and I wouldn't ask her to work if she didn't want to. Financially ... I wouldn't say I'm rich, but I also wouldn't say I'm doing all that bad. Sure, I owe on bill's right now, but with my tax return comming this week I can pay those bill's off. Do I enjoy living check by check? In a way no, but in a way yes. It give's me the money I need to feed and cloth and care for my family. I could do better, but I haven't tried yet. Does that make me a bad provider? Far from it. My family is happy and well cared for. No, we don't have the money to go buy a 62" flat panel plasma HD screen tv with a full immersion surround sound system and built in dvd/dvr. But do we need that? No. You think it's horrible for people to be making money. Guess what. They worked for that money. Just as ANYONE in this country is well more then capable of doing. Even YOU.

Your friend isn't without option's. Like I said, I went to a government funded trade school. Have her look into a place called job corps. jobcorps.doleta.gov... Not only will she learn a trade, she'll get her GED, have a place to live (they provide rooms to stay while your there), she'll be fed, and they pay you. Not a whole lot, but enough when your allowed to go out and have fun. You really want to help her? Get her to go there. Like I said ... look at all the variable's. Something your failing to do. Homeless people aren't without options either. They're more then capable of getting on the right track. No one in this country is without option's.

yes but theres a catch though, the system works because alot of people arent aware of such options. if all these people were aware of it and wen tand did it, it would probably start to fall apart from an overload of people. people get screwed out of there things, some get rich, others dont. what i try to do is help the people that have gotten screwed. i dont offer a person money mainly because im not here to GIVE them anything. I will check that site you provided out, and almost definately recommened it to my friend and help her out whatever way i can.

but anyway, what are you doing that your wife doesnt have to work and your paying the bills? what kind of job do you have, because it sounds like its paying well if your single handedly supporting a family by yourself. (not asking as an insult like i dont believe you. ive got friends that dont know what to do, and i want to look into the profession your in)

o and sorry i misread the trade school as college.

[edit on 20-2-2006 by grimreaper797]

but yes realistically this place is a hell hole. we just dont have any productive leaders anymore to help. i idolized tupac not really as much as the music he did as much as the things he was aiming to do. he was organizing, getting out of rap and moving to alot bigger things. he even stated before he died he wanted to start a political party so that people out of the poor neighborhoods could have their say. create sports leagues for these areas, but only allows kids that get a (either C or B average or higher) are allowed to play. thats what i idolized about him, his will to change things one step at a time.

no theres no way the world will completely change tomorrow. but theres also no way to say we cant start changing it now and keep on that path. sure it would be easy to say that its not gunna happen anytime soon and give up on it, but the next generation will then do the same thing. it will just continue like that til its totally destroyed and theres nothing left. we gotta do something. and im tryin to take ground in every way possible.

create sports leagues for these areas, but only allows kids that get a (either C or B average or higher) are allowed to play. thats what i idolized about him, his will to change things one step at a time.

So ... forget those poeple who are failing ... doesn't seem very fair to me.

it will just continue like that til its totally destroyed and theres nothing left. we gotta do something. and im tryin to take ground in every way possible.

Realisticly, not trying to sound like a downer... Nothing is going to change the state of this world. Nothing. Doesn't mean we can't help where we can, but it's rather pointless day dreaming of a utopia world that just isn't going to come. You really need to take in all the variable's. And honestly, again not trying to sound rude, but ... Your not really doing much at all to change anything on a world wide scale. Neither am I. Neither is anyone really. Not even the most kindest gentlest person in the world is doing anything to change the world. Utopia is a fantasy.

yes but theres a catch though, the system works because alot of people arent aware of such options. if all these people were aware of it and wen tand did it, it would probably start to fall apart from an overload of people. people get screwed out of there things, some get rich, others dont. what i try to do is help the people that have gotten screwed. i dont offer a person money mainly because im not here to GIVE them anything. I will check that site you provided out, and almost definately recommened it to my friend and help her out whatever way i can.

Guess what. I didn't know about all these program's untill I asked people if there was any kind of help I could get. You can't get help unless your willing to LOOK and WORK for it. You can't sit there and just hope it come's. That's laziness.

but anyway, what are you doing that your wife doesnt have to work and your paying the bills? what kind of job do you have, because it sounds like its paying well if your single handedly supporting a family by yourself. (not asking as an insult like i dont believe you. ive got friends that dont know what to do, and i want to look into the profession your in)

As of right now, in between job's. On unemplyment benefit's. Also on other assistance program's that even the lowly bum on the street can get if he really wanted to change his life. Previous job was construction laborer $12hr. It was a temp job, but fun while it lasted and after I get a new car with my tax's I'm thinking about going to the laborer's union in my area. I was told by a guy at my last job that they start pay at $22.40 an hr. I'll also be getting an education through them as well. Again, these thing's are available to people willing to help themselve's. Not some guy sitting in an alley going woe is me. This isn't a third world country.

yea my grandfather was a carpenter, as my dad. id suggest you look twice before really dedicating your life to it. i was thinkin about just doing the same, but my dad told me not to anymore mainly because your worked like a slave now. you either work like no other, pretty much over work you, or they will get some one else for cheaper...illegal immigration is pretty much tearing the union appart. i figured id let you know that. o and if you do go on construction and you have to work at a Vonage phone company building...i pray for you lol. they had the people working 6 hours a week overtime or they wouldnt give them the job. of course thats what all big business is doing now because the cheap labor they can get now. just alil information on the direction construction unions are headed. on this path by the time i were to turn 30 chances are the union will have crumbled.

the world can change, its always changing, and theres no real reason why it cant change other then peoples attitudes. if you want to believe nothing can change, well fine, but there is a future beyond us, and they will be sure pissed off when they find that the past generations cared so little.

o and no it wasnt forget those people who are failing, its insentive to raise your grades. you want to play, well do better in school. i can name a good group of kids who only do school work because of sports teams. if there wasnt sports they would blow off all homework and such. its insentive, not forgeting.

edit: it sounds more like you are the one who isnt taking in all the "variables" every person you help, may change the world. i cant just one day pop out of no where and start making serious changes, im not in any position to do that yet. thats what im doing now, taking steps to put myself in the position to do bigger and bigger things. so that in time i can start to help make a noticiable change. really though, who are you to say a person cant make a change, or a serious one at that? are you god? do you control the future? not in the sightest. just because in your own little reality people like Martin Luther King Jr and Mahatma Gandhi either dont exist or didnt change the things in major ways, doesnt mean that it cant happen. your reality means nothing to me, because reality is what your willing to make of it, not couping with what you think it is.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by grimreaper797]

yea my grandfather was a carpenter, as my dad. id suggest you look twice before really dedicating your life to it. i was thinkin about just doing the same, but my dad told me not to anymore mainly because your worked like a slave now. you either work like no other, pretty much over work you, or they will get some one else for cheaper...illegal immigration is pretty much tearing the union appart. i figured id let you know that. o and if you do go on construction and you have to work at a Vonage phone company building...i pray for you lol. they had the people working 6 hours a week overtime or they wouldnt give them the job. of course thats what all big business is doing now because the cheap labor they can get now. just alil information on the direction construction unions are headed. on this path by the time i were to turn 30 chances are the union will have crumbled.

Thanks for your concern. Maybe they had crappy experience's, but for me it was entirely different. Not only was the supervisor one of the best boss' I've ever had, but he also let me get away with quite abit, as well as everyone else. We were working on a new R&D building for TI down the street from me and they would complain about this and that. Personally, I told them where to go and how to get there whenever they got in my way. I'm here to do my job, not get b*** by some corporate retard who has no clue what he's talking about. So I'd say something to not only him, but to my boss, next day .. problem solved. And if I had a car right now my boss would've taken me on board with him. I even got a couple people fired for being way too lazy. Couldn't stand it. You don't goto work to socialize. You goto work to WORK. Money isn't handed to you simply because you want to socialize. That's what work is. It's HARD. It's supposed to be HARD. Your there to work, not play and if you can't work your best you don't deserve the job you applied for. Just my opinion on it.

the world can change, its always changing, and theres no real reason why it cant change other then peoples attitudes. if you want to believe nothing can change, well fine, but there is a future beyond us, and they will be sure pissed off when they find that the past generations cared so little.

There doesn't seem to be too many people nowaday's overly pissed at what the christian's have done through out history. The killing of thousand's of innocent live's simply for not believing in god. Pure rubbish, but for some reason no one seem's to be holding too much of a grudge against them. Seem's like our generation could care less what past generation's have done. Even today, all the wars waged for no real good reason. Doesn't seem like anyone is really doing nothing to stop that. Actually ... look's like our world has been working the same way since the dawn of the human species without any end in sight.

o and no it wasnt forget those people who are failing, its insentive to raise your grades. you want to play, well do better in school. i can name a good group of kids who only do school work because of sports teams. if there wasnt sports they would blow off all homework and such. its insentive, not forgeting.

You know what, most those people failing are nothing more then degenerate's. They don't lead very good live's. I've had to deal with a bunch of moron's like that. Skipped school to do drug's. They were in gang's and such. Although a few were okish kids, just had learning problem's, and in those cases the teacher's weren't even doing much to help them! Best way to keep a kid out of trouble is to give them something else to do. Doesn't matter what grade's you get. EVERY kid is equal and every kid should be given the same oppurtunities. It's the parent's and teacher's JOB'S to make sure the child is getting a proper education. To make sure they're staying out of trouble. To know EVERYTHING about their kid's. My mom should've forced me to stay in school, I really regret quitting now, but when I starting complaining she was the one who brought it up, but the catch was I'd have to get a job. Later found out that's exactly what she did. She was just doing what she learned in life and imparting that onto me. Now I know better and I can make sure my kids grow up better then that.

The world is not Middle Earth in a Lord of the Rings fairy tales, in realiaty the line between good and evil is so blurred that, ultimately, there is simply no good guys or bad guys like the story books we read as kids.

Who are you to judge who's the bad guys? Your subjective perspective, that's what. The creators of the 9/11 trajedy are viewed as terrorists and the "bad' guys in the West, but in Middle East and other regions of the world they are seen as heroes, daring to stand up against the American domination and brutality that has been going on since the 1950s.

Vice versa, the American occupational troops in Iraq are not seen as brave warriors defending "freedom" of the people, but as an invasion force from the west attacking Iraq for its oil, which is true to some extent.

Before you can reach a justifiable conclusion, you should fully comprehend the geniune motives of both sides and see situations in all perspectives.

EarthUnificationFrontier:
Well said! I'm sure I alluded to much of what you mention in my original post.

In regards to the suicide bombers suspected to be involved in the 9/11 attacks, I concur completely. One might even say that their dedication to their cause is admirable, for they were willing to sacrifice everything to achieve their purpose.

Another point I would like to raise if I may, in regards to the thread topic as a whole, is that it's primary purpose was to alert people to the fact that the predicament we find ourselves in is not a hopeless one. The biggest threat we face is not that we have past the point of no return, but that we BELIEVE we are past the point of no return. We as individuals CAN make a difference.

Just look at the environment. Ten years ago or maybe twenty, there seem to be a similar feeling of helplessness and insignificance, but now there are many steps in place aimed at environmental friendliness throughout the world that may just see us dig our way out of this hole. Maybe it's only me, but I am definitely more conscious of the environmental situation and make a concerted effort to reduce my contribution to it's destruction.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
The world is not Middle Earth in a Lord of the Rings fairy tales, in realiaty the line between good and evil is so blurred that, ultimately, there is simply no good guys or bad guys like the story books we read as kids.

Who are you to judge who's the bad guys? Your subjective perspective, that's what. The creators of the 9/11 trajedy are viewed as terrorists and the "bad' guys in the West, but in Middle East and other regions of the world they are seen as heroes, daring to stand up against the American domination and brutality that has been going on since the 1950s.

Vice versa, the American occupational troops in Iraq are not seen as brave warriors defending "freedom" of the people, but as an invasion force from the west attacking Iraq for its oil, which is true to some extent.

Before you can reach a justifiable conclusion, you should fully comprehend the geniune motives of both sides and see situations in all perspectives.

I regularly agree with the entire above sentiment... however, I am of the belief that we can't say if there is a good and evil, a right and wrong because there may very well be... they may just be things which Humanity can't understand on a human level. However, we pretend to have the Knowledge because we believe we understand the concepts... when as you say, we are not consistent in our viewing of it.

perhaps there are such things, but we won't know until we attain Godly Wisdom, which is likely unattainable and something which we have never had.

TheCrystalSword

Before you can reach a justifiable conclusion, you should fully comprehend the geniune motives of both sides and see situations in all perspectives.

You should pay close attention to that statement.

Agreement and belief is not reaching a conclusion. I have not concluded, I am merely inclined currently.

A classic example in recent times of good remaining triumphant over evil, is the Charlie Sheen/September 11 suspicion. Here is an event that has been aparrently covered up and it had appeared that the conspiracy theorists would have to be content with only being able to influence us here on ATS and other similar forums, as the general population have largely accepted the official story. It looked like evil had won this battle, and the likely true story would have to share a room with the likes of UFO existence in the minds of the public.

However, since the Charlie Sheen comments, there seems to be a groundswell of public opinion supporting the theory that the official story is a coverup and a conspiracy has indeed taken place. Last I heard a poll reported that 82% of people surveyed shared this view. In my opinion it now seems highly likely that more will come of this and the true perpetrators will receive their come-uppance(sp). Who knows, it may even lead to a revolution of sorts? In an often perceived evil world, good manages to find a way.

How should good and evil be judged? Is it the intention behind an action, the action itself or the resulting consequence that determines the moral nature of the event? Depending on which one of these phases are chosen, the feeling that good or evil is triumphant over the other can vary significantly. Good intentions can produce disastrous outcomes, leading to the conclusion that evil has triumphed. If the action determines moral nature of a crime, then why do we punish people for conspiring to commit crimes? If the intentions are the determining factor, why do drink drivers who don't cause an accident receive a far less severe punishment than those that do?

It seems to me that there are vast inequalities in how we determine what is good and what is evil, and the severity of such acts, which clouds our judgment in determining whether or not good truly is remaining triumphant over evil.

good remains prevelently triumphant over evil... there are always things to be known and things to be thought among the mind of the many... together in heart...

we can accomplish good through out and through