The queen and Freemasons

Hi,

I have no wish to upset any good masons out there but i did watch a program recently, most of which flew over my head. It said that the Queen was "The Grand Patroness of International Freemasonry". I note that the Secret services in the Uk do not answer to government but only to her majesty. If you look at the MI5 logo, you can see the "all seeing eye" in a triangle right at it' apex too. Does this mean that with the queen so closely related to freemasonry and the secret service only answering to her, that this trust place in her majesty can be easily compromised by her other interests? Also,it's quite clearly states that it is against the law for a freemason to to be in the secret service but i was reading that this law is treated with little or no respect at all.

Wouldn't it be odd if it was freemasons who actually instructed the secret services? Their links with politics are undeniable as there are two masonic lodges at least in the houses of parliament. If freemasons want this kind of power, should they not declare themselves as candidates in an election and get voted in like the rest of parliamentarians or do they like the stealth approach, attain power without the approval of the people in an election, it's very clever isn't it?

Just curious as to the apparent contradictions?

I'm hardly a freemasonry expert, but I thought that all legitimate lodges did not admit females, so how can the Queen of England be the "Grand Patroness of International Freemasonry?"

I've been a master mason for 7 years now. I've served in district office as well as in various capacities in the York Rite. And this is the first I've heard of the Q of E having anything to do with the lodge.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

I've been a master mason for 7 years now. I've served in district office as well as in various capacities in the York Rite. And this is the first I've heard of the Q of E having anything to do with the lodge.

Hmm... at our lodge festive board, there is always a toast to "The Queen and the Craft".

Probably because we (Australia) are part of the Commonwealth.

Originally posted by useeitsnaff
I note that the Secret services in the Uk do not answer to government but only to her majesty.

Everything military reports to "Her Majesty, and Her Heirs and successors". It's in the pledge of alligience when you sign up. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if you made a similar pledge when joining the police.

But that doesn't mean she directly controls the military - the Royal family haven't had that power for centuries, since Parliament decided they were fed up with the ruling monarch declaring war on all and sundry, and Parliament being expected to foot the bill!

[edit on 21-1-2006 by tek_604]

I cannot remember even one time where the King or Queen of England have even been mentioned in our Lodge. Let alone the Queen being some sort of Patroness of a Fraternal society. Sorry, I have little doubt that this Patroness thing is pretty much made up.

useeitsnaff

I think the programme you watched sent you in the wrong direction. I'd be interested in knowing what it was, actually.

It said that the Queen was "The Grand Patroness of International Freemasonry".

This is wrong on several levels.
1. The Queen is the Head of State of the UK, and, as such, is invited to be a patron of hundreds of organizations. This in itself is nothing special.
2. As the Head of State, the Queen is toasted in British lodges. Although many of her ancestors were members, she cannot join UGLE as she is female. I don't believe there is any other link between the Crown and freemasonry.
3. There is no such thing as 'International Freemasonry'. Whenever you hear that phrase you know something is wrong.

Incidentally I don't think Patroness is a word, as Patron covers both sexes.

I note that the Secret services in the Uk do not answer to government but only to her majesty.

Have a UK 101 free on me. The 'Crown', through a historical legacy, rules the country. But thanks to Magna Carta, the Civil War, the Bill of Rights and numerous other legislations the Crown is now an honorary position only, and the UK has what is known as a Constitutional Monarchy. In short, the Crown doesn't get involved in politics and the Queen is a figurehead only.

If you look at the MI5 logo, you can see the "all seeing eye" in a triangle right at it' apex too.

I've never seen this logo, perhaps you could post an image up for us

Does this mean that with the queen so closely related to freemasonry and the secret service only answering to her, that this trust place in her majesty can be easily compromised by her other interests?

No, because the Queen is not closely related to freemasonry and the Secret Service does not answer to her, but to the government.

Also,it's quite clearly states that it is against the law for a freemason to to be in the secret service but i was reading that this law is treated with little or no respect at all.

I've never heard of this law, could you give some more details?

Wouldn't it be odd if it was freemasons who actually instructed the secret services?

It would be more than odd, it would be unbelieveable!!

Their links with politics are undeniable as there are two masonic lodges at least in the houses of parliament.

I deny any links with politics. Freemasons are not allowed to discuss politics at masonic lodges. Are you saying that if the Women's Institute meet in the church hall then they are involved in running the church? How about the local Rotaract club meeting above a pub - are they all alcoholics? The 'guilt by association' philosophy is flawed.

If freemasons want this kind of power, should they not declare themselves as candidates in an election and get voted in like the rest of parliamentarians or do they like the stealth approach, attain power without the approval of the people in an election

Freemasonry doesn't want that kind of power, and there is not a shred of evidence anywhere to suggest that it does. Freemasons, however, do stand for election and some even get elected! But they do it as individuals, not freemasons.

it's very clever isn't it? Just curious as to the apparent contradictions?

What's clever? Are you really just curious or do you have an ax to grind?

posted by trinityman
I've never seen this logo, perhaps you could post an image up for us

Here`s the pic

Interesting, thanks gps. I had a look on the current MI5 website and there's no sign of that logo so I guess the Illuminati has been rebranded out of the organization

I guess the image at the top might be an eye. This image usually represents GOD, and could mean that the UK security services work for the Crown under the watchful eye of God.

if freemasons get elected in to a power of position, surely his freemason roots would influenced while in power, i cant see a freemason being completly not influence by his lodge or brothers, , another reason why conspiracy is entwined with the mason

Judgeofdarkness, stick to the topic. There are other threads to discuss that.


The topic here is, The Queen of England is the head/patron of International Freemasonry.


I have a question, why the Queen? Why not the King? The King has nothign to do with masonry, no? The Prince of Wales does though, I think, but not the person, rather the office.

not a hundred percent on this but isnt prince charles emblem masonary related

Originally posted by Nygdan
I have a question, why the Queen? Why not the King? The King has nothign to do with masonry, no? The Prince of Wales does though, I think, but not the person, rather the office.

At the risk of stating the obvious, we don't have a King. We have a Queen. When we have a King then things will be different.

FYI, neither the person nor the office of the Prince of Wales has anything to do with freemasonry.

Originally posted by Judgeofdarkness
not a hundred percent on this but isnt prince charles emblem masonary related

External source: Wikipedia - Prince of Wales

Heraldic insignia
As heir apparent to his mother or father the reigning sovereign, the Prince of Wales bears the Royal Arms differenced by a white label of three points — just like any eldest son. To represent Wales he bears the Arms of the Principality, crowned with their heir-apparent's crown, on an inescutcheon-en-surtout.

He has a badge of three ostrich feathers (which can be seen on the twopence coin); it dates back to the Black Prince and is his as the English heir even before he is made Prince of Wales.

In addition to these symbols used most frequently, he has a special standard for use in Wales itself. Moreover, as Duke of Rothesay he has a special coat of arms for use in Scotland (and a corresponding standard); as Duke of Cornwall the like for use in that Duchy. Representations of all three may be found at List of British flags.

Presumably you are referring to the Ostrich feathers...

External source: Wikipedia - Edward, the Black Prince

The emblem of the Prince of Wales's feathers and its accompanying motto, Ich dien (German: "I serve"), are said to have been inherited by the prince from King John of Bohemia, against whom he fought in the Battle of Crécy. According to legend, after the battle, the prince walked over to the king of Bohemia's dead body. The King had ridden into battle despite his blindness, and Edward admired his bravery. He picked up the King's helmet, lined with ostrich feathers, and took the King's motto, Ich dien. However, this emblem and motto were not exclusively used by the Black Prince, but also by his brothers.

i may be mistaken (disinfo is on both side), i was refering to the order of the garter heres a quote from a website

"By the way, Prince Charles Coat of Arms has another symbol--The Order of the Garter. The Order of the Garter is the parent organization over Free Masonry, world-wide. When a man becomes a 33rd Degree Mason, he swears allegiance to that organization, and thereby to Prince Charles. "
www.reptilianagenda.com...

ive been looking on google about it im trying to find evidence to back up the website im quoting

like i said disinfo is on both sides , and im in the middle.

"By the way, Prince Charles Coat of Arms has another symbol--The Order of the Garter. The Order of the Garter is the parent organization over Free Masonry, world-wide. When a man becomes a 33rd Degree Mason, he swears allegiance to that organization, and thereby to Prince Charles. "
www.reptilianagenda.com...

ive been looking on google about it im trying to find evidence to back up the website im quoting

You won't find it. FreemaThe Order of the Garter is an order of British chivalry, and has nothing to do with Masonic fraternity.

www.royal.gov.uk...

Originally posted by Judgeofdarkness
if freemasons get elected in to a power of position, surely his freemason roots would influenced while in power, i cant see a freemason being completly not influence by his lodge or brothers, , another reason why conspiracy is entwined with the mason

It would be no more than he is influenced by his faimly, church, school or any other social org.

Judgeofdarkness

I'm afraid that website is talking utter nonsense. I'll break it down...

Prince Charles Coat of Arms has another symbol--The Order of the Garter

No it doesn't. The Order of the Garter has nothing to do with either Prince Charles or his Coat of Arms

The Order of the Garter is the parent organization over Free Masonry

Utter piffle. Quite untrue, the two are not connected, although I do seem to remember someone else trying to connect them via some tortuous route.

...world-wide.

BUZZZZZ wrong again. Freemasonry is composed of lodges, banding together under Grand Lodges which are sovereign and supreme. There is no over-arching international masonic organization.

When a man becomes a 33rd Degree Mason, he swears allegiance to that organization, and thereby to Prince Charles.

No, and No. He doesn't and he doesn't. I'd love for you to post some of the thinking behind these comments from www.reptilianagenda.com so everyone can decide for themselves the probity of the analysis

ive been looking on google about it im trying to find evidence to back up the website im quoting

Good luck, please post your findings. Please also be good enough to come back and tell us if you can't find anything conclusive.

And let's see if we can post on this matter without condesention.

The only role the Queen has in Freemasonry is as the Head of State of Commonwealth nations. As Australian Freemasons, we toast her health, purely as a sign of respect to those who govern us.