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Knights Templar in pre-Columbian America?

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posted on Jan, 19 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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I've often heard it stated that the KT traveled to the US long before columbus, via a route somewhat similar to that of the vikings (ie, not through the mid-atlantic anyways and landing in canada).

Sometimes the oak island money pit is cited as having been built by them.

Sometimes its not the templars proper but the sinclairs of scotland that made the voyage.


But I haven't seen any convincing evidence that this occured. Is anyone familiar with this evidence?




posted on Jan, 19 2006 @ 12:01 PM
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Nygdan,
Is this what you are looking for?

Roman Coins found in the Americas



posted on Jan, 19 2006 @ 12:17 PM
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The accounts of the voyages were kept in a journal by Sinclair's navigator, name of Zeno, I believe he was Genovese. He mailed them to his brother, and they describe Nova Scotia's open tar pits, for example. It is the only one on the east side of the Americas. Sinclair was also a Jarl of Norway, hence a Viking connection. There are books on the subject, which speculate about Oak Island, the Newport Tower, etc. Those claims are harder to prove. But the proof they went there is pretty good. The Rosslyn Chapel, completed pre-Columbus, is also evidence. There are carvings of aloe vera and corn plants there. It is a misconception that America was unknown. To some it was well known. They just had reason to keep it on the down low.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 07:20 AM
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There is evidence that the Norse People were on this continent as much as 700 years before the best part of Columbus ran down his daddies leg.

Documents recording William Sinclairs Voyages , Yes Voyages, plural, more than
50 years before ol chris ever saw a ship. There is also some indication that
ol chris was sailing to a "known port" and had charts provided by his Pop-in-law
a former GM of the Knights of Christ, the Spanish Decendant of the KT.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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There is proof that Knight Templars were in America as the other posts have concluded. There is a rock in Westford, Massachusetts with a picture of a knight. He is dressed in Knight Templar mantle. It is believed to be the carving of Sir James Gunn. He died there while the Sinclair expedition visited the area 100 years before Columbus.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by declair
There is proof that Knight Templars were in America as the other posts have concluded. There is a rock in Westford, Massachusetts with a picture of a knight. He is dressed in Knight Templar mantle. It is believed to be the carving of Sir James Gunn. He died there while the expedition visited the area 100 years before Columbus.


Here's an outline of the Westford Knight...


sinclair.quarterman.org...

Tracing of the Rock Effigy near Westford, Mass.




posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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He was the first to publicize the existence of the new world and explain a way to get there and back. Creditting him as the discoverer of America makes about as much sense as creditting the naming of America to refer to Amerigo Vespucci.
Thanks for the Westford Knight carving, I knew of it but forgot the name of it, and where it was. Many people beat Colombus to America. Go to wikipedia for more names.

en.wikipedia.org...

Category
re-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact
[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]

[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]

[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Thats interesting.
Here's an image of it


Very odd that there'd be a Dove, usually the holy spirit, there. Reminds me more of the Knights of Columbus than the Knights Templar. Can't say that I see much in that photo.

Here's a review of the stone from the " Curatorial Assistant for Archaeology at Harvard's Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology"
www.ramtops.co.uk...

Not much in the way of supporting evidence there though, just a report on that person's findings.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 07:09 PM
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The westford knight is not proof of anything mysterious.
It can't be a grave because it is carved in bedrock.
Too far from the ocean and stony creek being too shallow for ocean going ships.

It's not that impressive from close up.

The Newport Tower may be a windmill or a lighthouse, most likely a windmill and it's design is not that different from windmills from 15th century england. Gov. Benedict Arnold (the traitor's grandfather) lists his "stone windmill" in his will.

Sure the Templars/Sinclair could have made it to Eastern US - but did they? I'm still awaiting solid proof - along the lines of the Viking L'ans aux meadows site in Canada



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 01:51 AM
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This link is a good, short summary of the evidence supporting the Jarl Henry Sinclair new world journeys.

sinclair.quarterman.org...

And according to a book I have, Governer Benedict Arnold, (not the famous one), bought the property that the Newport Tower sits on long after the tower was already there. All of it's dimensions match up with the Scottish Ell. And the 8 arches, and round shape are both Templar building styles.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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Can't remember which show I saw it on, but in the show, they showed an English map of the Newfoundland area, which is kept at the city archives in Bristol - marked on it were a series of English flags, just off the coast. The flags marked English cod fishing grounds - but it also showed the coastline of Newfoundland... So North America was well known before Columbus "discovered" it.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 08:49 AM
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The future Governor Arnold of Rhode Island was born near the town of Chesterton England where there just so happens to be a stone windmill designed by an apprentice of the great Inigo Jones - who was known to adopt older building styles such as classical or Norman. Here is a link:

www.windmillworld.com...

Arnold built this stone windmill on the site of an earlier wooden mill that burned down according to the Newport Historical Society.

The Templars may have built round churches, but round towers are not exclusive to them and not everything they built was round. Norman (or romaneque) architechture predated the founding of the templars by centuries and continued to be a popular building style (note how many churches) to this day.

And yes, the waters off New England were famous cod-fishing grounds for the british, Icelandic and especially basque fishermen. My hometown was founded as a fishing and farming plantation in the 1620's. They failed on both accounts and had to return home bankrupt. I feel that these early cod fishermen knew of the land but did not go on shore very much.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by piersploughman

www.windmillworld.com...

Arnold built this stone windmill on the site of an earlier wooden mill that burned down according to the Newport Historical Society.


I know that is one of the theories proposed, but, imo, it is not the best one. The Natives of the area knew of it long before Arnold, and that link you posted proves nothing. It is more likely that windmill in your link was built after someone from Arnold's hometown returned from a visit to see him. It matters little, though, in the Templar/America connection. There are enough other signs without it.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 12:36 PM
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I have never seen any hard evidence that the Naragansett indians knew of the tower, only the claim made in books that support this mystery. I also do not recall Giovanni di Verrazzano mentioning a stone tower when he sailed into Naragansett bay in the 1520's. Roger Williams, the first governor of Rhode Island founded Newport around 1636, he didn't mention founding his capital on the site of an ancient stone tower.

Chesterton Windmill dates to 1632 - it predates the founding of Newport.

Like I've said previously templars, sinclair etc. could have made it here - but all the evidence I've seen so far is flimsy.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 09:49 PM
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lindahinks.com...

Excerpt:

'Since 1951, the Encyclopedia Americana has accepted The Zeno Narrative as an authentic account of an authentic voyage. John Cabot and Christopher Columbus' claim to fame thus stands challenged.'

This site lays out many of the pieces of evidence besides the otherwise hard to explain 'Zeno Narrative.' It is hard to otherwise explain the description of the open tar pits too.

The Castle at the Cross is another unexplained site in Nova Scotia, which also supports a templar presence.

And re: Verrazano, here's a link and some quotes.

www.templartreasure.com...


'The Tower’s placement on Verrazano’s Map as well as its designation of the area as Refugio leaves no doubt. The Templars intended and most likely founded a colony, however short-lived.

Verrazano himself claimed to be on a mission to reach China yet explored neither the Chesapeake Bay or the Hudson River as others would. He stayed only in one place, his two weeks in Newport.'


[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]



posted on Feb, 13 2006 @ 08:03 AM
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Yes, the zeno map is pretty interesting, but I don't know why it threatens Columbus and Cabot - The Vikings already were here for a short time and that can't be disputed. Columbus and Cabot are remembered for their lasting contribution to discovery (for good or ill), not because they were first.

And I always found it puzzling that if the Zeno map is true, then why was it first published almost 60 years after columbus? And in Venice, where Aldus had been publishing since the early 1500's.

I think it has more to do with the rivalries between Venice and Genova. Remember that Venice was the great port city of Marco Polo and controlled the major trade routes before Columbus (a Genovese) shifted everything toward the west. It makes perfect sense for the Venetians to steal some of Genoa's thunder by creating a map that claims they discovered it first. Even though Columbus sailed for Spain, a great discovery by a Genovese would have made the Venetians green with envy.

As far as the proof of is authenticiy - they mention the tar pits in Nova Scotia - well plenty of maps were drawn between 1492 and 1558 that zeno could have used as sources.

I take it that you may have read the narrative? What does it say about the fish in the area? If it does not say anything about codfish then you should question it - since Venetian fishermen would be looking for a way to break the salt cod monopoly held for centuries by the basques. The only other seafares that knew of the secret cod grounds (Grand Banks and Georges bank) were the iclandic - but they did not trade it like the basques.

As far as citing Steve Sora - I don't take him as a serious researcher as I have asked him about his sources on the templars in the past - he did not mention one primary source (unless you count his visiting "templar"graves in scotland), and everything else was taken from the likes of Baigent and Leigh. Sora is only interested in rehashing other peoples work to sell books so I dont take what he said about verrazzano at face value.

Sora uses the term "Refugio", which in Italian means a small shelter (could be of stone but usually wood). I want to know if Verrazzano used this word or other words like "Torre" (tower) or Campanile (belltower) or even Castello or Rocca. By all accounts Verrazzano was pretty inaccurate, but if he saw something that looked like a stone tower, I'm sure he would have used the right word for it.

Just to be sure I have requested a viewing of the original manscrips at the Pierpont Morgan Library so I can judge for myself - I'll be happy to share what I find.




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