Time travel problem

magnetic dimensional science type stuff!

Now when i think about this the book I just read that's fictional but really good describes this in a way best suited fr structure. I previously mentioned but on to pertinent ideas.
If this idea is correct in the thread and can cause a ship to produce a magnetic feild powerful enough it could apparently slip into another dimension. Theoretically physics could operate in different manners, this suggests that the ship could travel at what would be maybe half or a quarter of light speed here and be goiing light speed in the other dimension. thus cutting space travel down to way less time anyway it describes it well in the thread.

My idea is that this same technology would probably be effective in transit through different dimensions where time operates differently in parralell to our own universe so you have two new dimensions to travel through now. one for popping into that you stay in and travelling in a direction is converted into time. that time in positive momentum or inertia would be translated into time instead and your actuall physical location would not change, so to say a pseudo dimension that life as we know it is not existing in unless life can exist as pure energy. Anyway it would offer some technical ideas about what type of device might be needed or at least what to emballish about to make it sound pretty good anyway.

Originally posted by Nordman
I once read that one cannot travel back in time beyond the point of inventing the time machine.

I've worked on a Time travel novel as well. I created a machine in which the scientist and passengers travel thru Time & Space along with the whole machine.

And who made this rule ? Why would you NOT be able to travel further back than the invention of the machine ? If you can go forward to the Future, then return, then why wouldn't you be able to go back even earlier ? Unless only the travelers move thru Time and not the machine.

The real Time travelers can & do move thru time without any year limits. The tricky part is stopping at a particular year, month, day, and even knowing where in Time you want to stop. Not all places would have calenders & clocks handy.

Good luck with your story.

I had an idea for a science fiction book that envolved time travel.

In the idea a race of alien beings had detected radio transmissions coming from a distant planet (earth) while traveling through our part of the galaxy by mistake. The aliens that detected the signals were caught in a civil war billions of light years away and did not want anny percieved outside threat or another threat.

So somehow, and I never worked out the details, the aliens were capable of taking a runnaway star (or just a star) and sending it on a collision course towards earth.

Peopel on earth were able to detect the star and estimated 17 months before it would hit earth but that was irrelevant because it would fry us to death before that point. So the human race begins working on a number of prjects: one was to send humans into space to live, one of my more half baked theories was to pollute the atmosphere with a chemical that would undergo some sort of photochemical reaction and accelerate earth safely away from the star and everyone would have to live underground for 15 years and the planet though would be in constant movement through out space, etc etc, and one theory was time travel.

But none of this was achieved because everyone believed the star was a symbol from god so the popes starts a war to kill all the scientist and engineers working on the project (because no one know about the aliens, everyone thinks it is just a runnaway star) and then they kill all those with education in science regardless of whether they were working on the project because they might take the place of others...

It then turns out that the star never makes it close to earth because a truce is reached between the warring aliens or the star is needed for something else (never could decided or something else), and after all the scientist are killed a massive flu spreads through the remaining population and everyone ends up dying or close to everyone because there are few people left who know how to create flu vaccine, administer the vaccine, and give medical attention, etc etc.

So everyone revolts against the pope and.....That is where I got stuck...this was a bout 3 years ago and I have no intention of ever starting the novel again.

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Frosty]

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
In school, they told me my IQ is in the upper 2% of the population, but I wasn't trying to sound smart. I don't believe IQ scores reflect intellect very well, though. And I know that my definition of time is incomprehensible to most people. But, then, convincing anyone to see it my way was never my goal anyway. Your definition of time makes no sense to me.
If I was trying to sound smart I would have written something like this:

Perforce & pro forma, henceforth & in perpetuity, implacably & without umbrage, this regulatory authoritarian aristocracy’s providential predilection for, & perennial proclivity to, punctilious parsimony has unanimously, unambigously & incontrovertably impelled the stringent elucidation in this preemptive promulgation. At our prerogative, without prejudice, pursuant to our aforementioned profligate perfunctory placation of portentious presuppositions substantiating polemic perfidy, this prima fascia proviso is a peremptory proscription to forthwith & heretofore advocate the insubstantiation of all preceding pontifications, this precis has precedent. Thus, we contumaceously & importunately requisition you to precipitously endeavour to ameliorate, repudiate & extirpate perfunctory, archaic, anomalous, incommensurable, egregious & extemporaneous prognostications individuating nebulous variegated conterminous physiological peripheral phenomena erroneously delineating a prodigious preponderance of incipient, spurious, specious, execrable, peripatetic, & equivocal differentiation inherently & indisputably exhibited by, & inseparably & irreparably incorporated into, the exceedingly minuscule percentile of pelagic, priapic protuberances demonstrably perceptible among the heterogeneous sub-genus of the aforementioned excessively infrequent population of anatomically atypical salamander zygotes inexplicably exhibiting distinctive sepia & sorrel epidermal striations. This inscrutible, enigmatic anthropomorphic transmogrification is ostensibly paradoxical to the obsequious, obfuscating prevarications of this vociferous assemblage of indoctrinated, anti-disestablishmentarianists whose implicitly supercilious, compensatory postulations appertaining to the ostentatious, audacious, vexatious & perspicacious endocentric stentorian iconoclasts with a penchant for self-edification, who invariably purport to be conciliatory adjudicators, decisively deduced to be in actuality acting antithetically, disclosing a diametrically opposed, contrasting comportment, contrarily, incongruently, surreptitiously, perniciously, capriciously & salaciously encumbering indistinguishable exascerbating existentialistic irrationalities expeditiously & efficaciously constructed expressly to insidiously & irrefutably corroborate the incorporeal sanctimonious polysyllabic sesquipedalian verbosities prevalent in this inordinately profuse, interminably & inexorably proliferating, multitude of disingenuous, pedagogical, semantic, pedantic, obfuscatorial, objectionable, indefensible, indubitably untenable, conspicously convoluted, pre-eminently ponderous, imperious, impenitent, preternaturally inculcated nomenclature.
Sometimes.

Uh...and this is proof of a high IQ? Hmm....maybe it's just me, and all those run-on, fragmented sentences.

Hey, I'm kidding! Noooooo!!!

Originally posted by voodoo child

Originally posted by Toelint
This reminds me of all those notions physicists have of parallel universes and such. especially where they compare our existance and others to lanes on a super highway. Well, here's a question for everyone.

Why can't we have lanes (universes) which are running in the opposite direction??

Punch through to a parallel universe which is running in the opposite direction (which or course is "running forward" to them.) then punch your way back to this universe, when you've reached the year in which you want to return? Presto...you're in the past!

Did that make sense?

yeah man that made sense! cool as theory!!
very creative mind u have

Tanks! I came up with this when the "Big Crunch" theory was in vogue. I figured the Universe needed an Ultimate Energy/Mass Conservation model to explain where aaaallllll that mass and energy goes after the crunch. Why not back in time? By the same token, our Universe is reborn when "their" Universe dies. And so, the coin continues to flip.....

[edit on 23-1-2006 by Toelint]

Thanks guys!

You've given good stuff to me to ponder upon. I'm sure I'll be able to find a beliavable method for time travelling that makes "some" sense.

Now only if I could finish all the other details

Originally posted by mrjones

Originally posted by One_Love_One_GOD
Time travel Is not possible because time itself does not exsist, it's just a measurement we use, only the present Is possble and the past only exsists In are minds as in memories. Not to mention the fact that matter can not be In anyone place at any given time and, also heres food thought through out history the matter that makes up the mass of your body was In some form or another on the Earth.

Im not to scientific as you can tell lol but If you think about it what I just said makes perfect sense

So based on that the holoccaust never happened, hitler was a rather nice guy actually, bush is a good president who never went to war, clinton never tried marijuana nor had an affair.

History is only our memories right? so in that case when we develop the tech to alter memories then we can change the past?
No.

History does exist
the future exists
it is like a cassette tape and player, the read head is now, however, just because the past has already played through the read head and is curling up at the end of the reel does not mean it never happened nor that is does not exist still, it is just not currently happening

It is entirely possible that when we reach the end of the reel the universe will rewind, collapsing in on itself and playing again

Right but it is still only a product of the present, yes History&Future exists but only as the present. How Is altering somones memory going to have any affect on time or history, It doesn't it's simply just a state of mind. As for foreseeing the future look at it like this, If I say Im going for a piss In a weeks time does that mean a set amount of things have to happen In the meantime?, NO!, It simpply means Im smart enough to know whats coming. We may be able to predict whats coming some of us better than other (cough) but we cannot travel/go to a place or time that does not exist, the future Is empty untill the present has passed.

Time Is a blank book being written you cannot skip to the end for the end has not been written yet.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking.....But if you want solid information on the possibilities of time travel then you should def. pick up the book Hyperspace. After about the 1st 6 chapters you might be a little overwhelmed but it will def. make it clear and it's not fiction everything is based of course on theoretical physics and quantum physics but at least you are getting the scientific answer.
This should help you a little
www.mkaku.org...
Here is a little bit about Dr. Michio Kaku, He really knows what he's talking about
www.mkaku.org...

'Uh...and this is proof of a high IQ? Hmm....maybe it's just me, and all those run-on, fragmented sentences.

Hey, I'm kidding! Noooooo' toelint
Who said I was trying to prove that? Hardly. I can't even prove I'm sane, let alone that I have a high IQ. Just because our education system test results claim that does not mean it is so. Even if my IQ is high, I have yet to find a definitive explanation of what, other than that I can write IQ tests really well, a high IQ signifies. Are you sane? Can you prove it? My dad met someone who asked that and then proceeded to prove he was, after my dad replied he himself could not do so.
And if run-on and fragmented sentences were good enough for James Joyce and E. E. Cummings, they are good enough for me.
'Fred, it takes a smart man to know how stupid he is.' Barney Rubble
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Someday is not a day of the week.

I remember a show I saw awhile back that showed that the sr-71 black birds could fly with an atomic clock set direct with one on the ground. and after a long mission's later they found that the clock was off by some very very very small amount . The amount was so small it was never noticed till after the decomission of the plane. but did prove in a very very very small amount that time travel or the slowing of time is possible

I heard something similar about the shuttle. I have wondered whether there are those who can slow down or stop time. It would explain a lot of magic tricks. I think there is something there.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
'Uh...and this is proof of a high IQ? Hmm....maybe it's just me, and all those run-on, fragmented sentences.

Hey, I'm kidding! Noooooo' toelint
Who said I was trying to prove that? Hardly. I can't even prove I'm sane, let alone that I have a high IQ. Just because our education system test results claim that does not mean it is so. Even if my IQ is high, I have yet to find a definitive explanation of what, other than that I can write IQ tests really well, a high IQ signifies. Are you sane? Can you prove it? My dad met someone who asked that and then proceeded to prove he was, after my dad replied he himself could not do so.
And if run-on and fragmented sentences were good enough for James Joyce and E. E. Cummings, they are good enough for me.
'Fred, it takes a smart man to know how stupid he is.' Barney Rubble
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
Someday is not a day of the week.

Okay, that was a hard ribbing I gave you and I apologize. In the meantime, can I prove I'm sane? Uhh...no! I mean, who's to say the "shrink" giving the exam isn't just as whacky??

*Adjusting my Napolion hat.*

[edit on 25-1-2006 by Toelint]

You are kind to apologize, no worries. I may bark a bit, but I assure you that ribbing was tame, a mild roasting which I actually found quite funny. When my dad said he couldn't prove sanity, the fellow took out a card that said certified sane. He was going to court and had to be tested for sanity first.
Feel free to take the odd jab at me now and then, it keeps me on my toes.

Consider this concept,..

Time is but a measurement of movement, using some reference point,..the sun, whatever.

If you want to travel forward into time,.. you need to completely increase your atomic vibration frequency...




If you want to go back in time,...

...you need to decrease your atomic oscillation frequency.

The slower you 'oscillate',..the faster the past catches up.


You cant go back in time, but you can let the past catch up to you.

Smirkley, Wouldn't that concept cause a lot of problems when combined with a lot of other theories like time travel is not possible but travelling into an alternate universe at that's at a different point in time but identical.
You know a choice makes a new dimension type idea.

I'm with Blackguard on this. I would think you'd be able to propell yourself into the future, but what's changed around you is changed and there ain't no going back. The whole idea of time travel is exactly that, and the only reason why it persists is because even the stupidest of the stupid are able to grasp the concept of going back. There is only now and the state of matter that accompanies it, you can't reverse that, but there's money to be made in the research so scientists entertain the thought. That takes care of that stupid kill-your-mother-before-your-born paradox.

All theories have their anomalous 'problems', especially when combined with other theories.

But which are scientifically feasible?
What are the possibilities based on known science, bent to the future.




A person can only go back as far as they have existed, contrary to Orson Wells' time machine.

Unless you want to couple that with 'past lives'.

But that even provides it's own 'problems'.


hmmm... interesting combination of concepts,... I wonder if that can be worked out to make a novel.

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but...

Well one problem with time travel that no-one ever mentions is that if you travel in time only, say, your time machine in your garage takes you from today to a week from today; you would have moved through time but not through space. When you appear in a week, you will be in a new time but the same point in space, which is a couple miles away from the earth floating in space. And that would suck. The only person to have mentioned this is John Tutor who claims that during the early time travel experiments, the porbes were not comming back, because they were traveling a few hours they appeared many miles away and thousands of feet in the air.

So in your time travel book, remember that a complicated set of gyroscopes and gravity detectors and atomic clocks are probably needed to keep the ship traveling in space as it travels in time. And thus keep your hero from ending up inside the moon, or worse.


(I just read some posts and it seems like time travel is still tabu or not readily understood by the lay-poster. If you travel near a black hole, space and time are so warped that you come out hundreds of years in your future. You cant use the process to go back in time, but just like the atomic clock experiments it is time travel. Time travel happens all the time everywhere. The famous double slit experiment even showed that information/time moves from future to past as well. So stop debating the semantics of the word Time and just accept it is possible and probable; and not restricted by any known laws or theorys of physics. In fact if time travel is determined to not be possible, THATS when the science books will have to be rewritten.)

[edit on 1/25/2006 by ViolatoR]

Think ticket to afuture in which you are healthy , wealthy, happy:

www.timetravelfund.com...

(Be sure to read the whole site)

Originally posted by ViolatoR
I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but...

Well one problem with time travel that no-one ever mentions is that if you travel in time only, say, your time machine in your garage takes you from today to a week from today; you would have moved through time but not through space. When you appear in a week, you will be in a new time but the same point in space, which is a couple miles away from the earth floating in space. And that would suck. The only person to have mentioned this is John Tutor who claims that during the early time travel experiments, the porbes were not comming back, because they were traveling a few hours they appeared many miles away and thousands of feet in the air.

So in your time travel book, remember that a complicated set of gyroscopes and gravity detectors and atomic clocks are probably needed to keep the ship traveling in space as it travels in time. And thus keep your hero from ending up inside the moon, or worse.


(I just read some posts and it seems like time travel is still tabu or not readily understood by the lay-poster. If you travel near a black hole, space and time are so warped that you come out hundreds of years in your future. You cant use the process to go back in time, but just like the atomic clock experiments it is time travel. Time travel happens all the time everywhere. The famous double slit experiment even showed that information/time moves from future to past as well. So stop debating the semantics of the word Time and just accept it is possible and probable; and not restricted by any known laws or theorys of physics. In fact if time travel is determined to not be possible, THATS when the science books will have to be rewritten.)

[edit on 1/25/2006 by ViolatoR]

Originally posted by apc
If you do decide to go with pure fiction and devise a way to travel prior to the existance of the machine, be sure to throw in something to give it a 3 dimensional target reference. Otherwise, the machine will arrive floating in space very, very far away.

And yes, using a wormhole singularity would permit travel into the past. Not just the future. If you just hung out at the entrance, sure, you would probably just get stuck in your own fold of spacetime and be frozen in time, relatively. However, if you passed through a wormhole that connected two points in time (and space) it is reasonable to assume the conduit would be a two way street. So if the exit point can be some time in the future, then that can double as an entrance back to our present (the relative past). Build the device (create a wormhole singularity), and go read a book... drink some coffee... come back, set your targeting flux capacitor (you know what I mean), and jump in. You emerge at your destination, just before you read your book. As long as the wormhole exists, it is possible to exit out of it.

Ok Simple thought! If you travel forward in time then your are removing yourself from the present correct. And if you travel back you face the distinct possibility of existing in the same time as yourself. In my opinion if you were to move forward into the future and abandon your current timeline then technically you would already have killed yourself because you do not exist in the past once you have arrived in the future therefore you could not exist in the future.