Is it possible that the Atlanteans came from a planet in our own solar system?

Thanks Marduk, that was really funny after a very long day at work, I was laughing so hard. Thanks.

Originally posted by Stari
Did I read what you said wrong?

Originally posted by Marduk
it seems so is this just a general disability to understand the plain truths that are around you Stari or are you trying to be obtuse its not winning you a fan club either way

Then I read your last sentence and you commented on a comment that was meant for Harte.

I am not disabled, I am trying to understand what so many people think is true. It doesn't make sense. And if you are implying that I am disabled because I do not understand then I am not alone in this thinking and there for I am not the only one disabled.

I am not trying to build a fan club just get to the truth by brain storming with some very intelligent people. I have alot of fun along with learning and hopefully teaching some folks out there a thing or two as well.

Originally post by Harte
"Better" is a value judgement. Better under certain circumstances is the way to look at it. Evolution absolutely does not progress from "Primitive" to "Advanced," though I know that's the way lots of people, even scientists, put it.

If it does not progress from primate to advanced then wouldn't that be called deevolving?

Originally post by Harte
Do you like excess body hair?

lol, ok now, just to set the story straight here, I do not like alot of body hair folks.. lol This is too funny, I was trying to make a point not state a personal preference.

Originally post by Harte
If not, then you can find the answer within yourself. If so, then if there were a lot more people like you, there'd be a lot more hair on us.

Tell me Harte if I am reading this wrong but are you saying that I can will evolution to happen or not? Because that is so not true.

Originally post by Harte
I'm sure you are aware that this has already been done, right?

This is very true, I can't believe I didn't think of it also.

Originally post by Harte
I mean, ever heard of the Wooly Mammoth? Now, ever seen an extremely hairy Elephant? Do you know that the Indian Elephant has a great deal less hair than the African one (or maybe I have that backwards - whatever)?

Oh yes I have heard of the wooly mammoth, believed to have died off around 3,500 years ago. And no I have not ever seen an extremely hairy elephant.

No I didn't know that one of those elephants has less hair than the other. Are you trying to say that it has happened with all mammels including humans?

Originally post by Harte
Do you know that a virus can insert genetic code into the very DNA of it's host?

Oh my gosh I did not know that, really? If I catch a cold and it's a virus, i'm really sick, it's changing my dna?

I do not understand genetics and I do not pretend to either. I look at these fossils and I look at animals now a days and I see all kinds of different breeds in one species, how could this have happened with all animals except for humans? I believe it did, and scientists have the fossils.

Heheh...oh Stari...oh Stari...where to begin?? Let see...

I am not disabled, I am trying to understand what so many people think is true. It doesn't make sense. And if you are implying that I am disabled because I do not understand then I am not alone in this thinking and there for I am not the only one disabled.

Well...let's see, so many people believe it's true...because...well how can I say it...it is! Genes and their consequences are in plain sight!

The reason why you have stopped seeing dramatic changes in human fisiology it's because we have advanced ourselves to the point that instead of people with specifical traits surviving better than others, we have made tools, giving more or less equal chances with everybody.

But fact is evolution is still happening, we still choose our life partners and have children with them for reasons known or not to us, so in a way, genes that we subconciously deem better are surviving. And proof of that are human remains from 3,500 years ago. How much did they look like us?

You'd be surprised how different some could be, and it's just because people chose by different standards their partners. Evolution is not only limited to survivabilty, but also to decision. Traits more attractive to the other gender will endure, thus making does traits more visible in generations to come...

I am not trying to build a fan club just get to the truth by brain storming with some very intelligent people. I have alot of fun along with learning and hopefully teaching some folks out there a thing or two as well.

Your theories are very fun to discuss as well I must say, though in some or most points we might totally disagree.

Originally post by Stari

If it does not progress from primate to advanced then wouldn't that be called deevolving?

Lol, it all depends on the circumstances as I think Harte was trying to say and you failed to see. If more complex creatures have better survivabilty than lesser ones, then nature says more complex creatures shall evolve, yet if a simple design is effective enough it will endure enough, it all comes down to circumstances

Orignally posted by Stari
lol, ok now, just to set the story straight here, I do not like alot of body hair folks.. lol This is too funny, I was trying to make a point not state a personal preference.

Well it might be funny to you since you don't seem to understand, but there is a reason for mating rituals in complex species, which we belong too, and it could have been that simply less hairy men where more succesful than hairy man in reproducing. And that not nessarily happened in our time, likely in one of our ancestors. For every trait you have, there is a reason behind it, and I mean every single one.

Originally post by Stari
Tell me Harte if I am reading this wrong but are you saying that I can will evolution to happen or not? Because that is so not true.

Well...it's not like will it comes to survivability and compatibility. Would you prefer a hairy woman over one that isn't? If your answer is no, there is a reason for that...

No I didn't know that one of those elephants has less hair than the other. Are you trying to say that it has happened with all mammels including humans?

Nooo...see, you're not getting the point, wooly mammoth dissapeared for a reason, called circumstances the species did not have enough time to adapt to a rapid change in the circumstances (being weather...or humans, or both) and thus became extinct. Yes, evolution has happend with all mammals, if evolution didn't exist, we'd all be unicellar life forms, if anything.

Oh my gosh I did not know that, really? If I catch a cold and it's a virus, i'm really sick, it's changing my dna?

Well...not really, it's only changing the host cell's DNA, to multiply more virus instead of doing it's normal routine, like splitting or doing whatever that cell is supposed to do in your body, from absorbing nutrients, to absorbing oxygen, to sending electrical signals and so on...

The reason your whole body doesn't have it's DNA changed is that every cell that is infected, changes inmediately it's purpose, and dies, so it doesn't reproduce another cell with infected DNA, thus the virus must infect more cells...
A bit more clear now??

I do not understand genetics and I do not pretend to either. I look at these fossils and I look at animals now a days and I see all kinds of different breeds in one species, how could this have happened with all animals except for humans? I believe it did, and scientists have the fossils.

Well, not understanding genetics, and dismiss evolution is pretty bold. There is a reason why species come and go, and why they change into different species and so on.

The reason why you don't see dramatic changes in human fisiology I think I have explained broadly...though it comes down to this...if we didn't use tools, and depended on our bodies alone as all other species do (except for some apes...not surprisingly) then evolution would continue it's natural course with us, and you'd see smallpox killing large amounts of people, to see only the inmune people survive, or better and stronger hunters surviving over weak ones...and so on...

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
The reason why you have stopped seeing dramatic changes in human fisiology it's because we have advanced ourselves to the point that instead of people with specifical traits surviving better than others, we have made tools, giving more or less equal chances with everybody

Are you serious? Just because we make tools doesn't mean that a tool to better our lives would turn an evolutionary gene off.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
And proof of that are human remains from 3,500 years ago. How much did they look like us?

Actually they looked alot like us. They were in fact modern day humans.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
You'd be surprised how different some could be, and it's just because people chose by different standards their partners.

This is not evolution that is called hybridization. If a human chooses his or her partner wisely then together they can improve on the human race. That is not evolution that is called breeding.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Your theories are very fun to discuss as well I must say, though in some or most points we might totally disagree.

I realize that alot of people here disagree with my theories and that is ok. Everybody is allowed their own opinion. I consider what every one says and I research what is told to me and if it still does not make any sense then I post my opinions.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
For every trait you have, there is a reason behind it, and I mean every single one.

I can agree with you on that, but, the reason is because of breeding. Say you have three sets of couples, one set both man and woman has great genes, thus they have a child with better traits. Then the second couple they both have bad genes, they have a child who has not improved on humanity. Then the third couple one has great genes and the other has bad genes, the child might excel humanity in some areas and not excel in some.

This is a breeding thing not evolution.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Well...not really, it's only changing the host cell's DNA

Well thank goodness for that!

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Well, not understanding genetics, and dismiss evolution is pretty bold.

I'm not being bold. I have eyes, I watch the documentaries on TV that show these few fossil bones that where found and archeologists paste together a whole monkey skeleton from maybe 3 skeletal bones and they call it evolution. Come on now, you do not need to be a scholar to know that is so wrong. Especially when I do know a bit about breeding.

I have Chihuahuas and before I started breeding them I decided to check into it so I would not make mistakes. This taught me alot about breeding and different breeds of dogs. This made me start thinking about what archeologists say about the very few bones that they have found. They piece these few bones together into what they believe this person/ape breed looked like.

With all of this evolution talk that is going on and now that it has been said by Ioseb_Jugashvili that we are choosing our life partners and I know that this has to be what is making the changes in humanity that scientists call evolution.

What if my theory for Atlanteans coming here from Mars, or really any other planet, and breeding with the native humans and there for taking the better gene pool (Atlanteans) and mixing it up with the lesser gene pool (Earthlings). This could explain why technology went down hill after Atlantis went underwater.

"Is it possible that the Atlanteans came from a planet in our own solar system?"

sure it is. they probably originated (perhaps more than likely) from earth, but from earth's future, and travelled into the past.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
"Is it possible that the Atlanteans came from a planet in our own solar system?"

sure it is. they probably originated (perhaps more than likely) from earth, but from earth's future, and travelled into the past.

Interesting theory but it makes a mockery of causality. It also lacks any proof whatsoever. You have seen the rest of this thread, haven't you?

Originally posted by Darkmind

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
"Is it possible that the Atlanteans came from a planet in our own solar system?"

sure it is. they probably originated (perhaps more than likely) from earth, but from earth's future, and travelled into the past.

Interesting theory but it makes a mockery of causality. It also lacks any proof whatsoever. You have seen the rest of this thread, haven't you?

it does not make a mockery of causality if the cause was due to the effect of where the genetic encoding of humans is, was, and shall be:

"Self preservation"

aka:

"Self Pre-Serve"

aka:

"Self Before I Serve"

serve what?

anyone or anything. with this dna, this genetic encoding into every cell of our body, we would always know fear.

you said:

It also lacks any proof whatsoever.

really? find me one, please, just one messenger from god, just one angel who did not begin the message from TRUTH by stating:
"Be Not Afraid"

you said:

You have seen the rest of this thread, haven't you?

what do they know?

they don't even know themselves.

they don't even know their intentions.

they don't even know what their own motivations are.

do you need proof?

here is a question for you all:

What is the opposite of Love?

i offer all contributors in this thread to answer this question honestly, and then i will supply an answer, and you all can feel free to debunk it, if you can.

i thank you for my time, and i thank you for your time as well,
some call me som.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
...here is a question for you all:

What is the opposite of Love?

Indifference.

Harte

Originally posted by Stari
Are you serious? Just because we make tools doesn't mean that a tool to better our lives would turn an evolutionary gene off.

Evolutionary gene? Nooo, see, when you don't know things about something you don't invent words. There aren't evolutionary genes. Simply beings with better genes, or genes necessary for the circumstances at the moment survive better. Called evolution. Tools help us shape our environment, thus the lack of the a need to change, when instead of being shaped by our environment we are shaping it. Clear now??

Originally posted by Stari
Actually they looked alot like us. They were in fact modern day humans.

Oh, gene talking, they were exactly like us, but people in that time had different concepts of beauty, and different types of women were preferred than now.

Originally posted by Stari
This is not evolution that is called hybridization. If a human chooses his or her partner wisely then together they can improve on the human race. That is not evolution that is called breeding.

Heheh...we don't choose our partners wisely...there is a reason for congenit diseases still existing and such. It still is evolution, traits that are not atractive to us subconciously, will not survive. There is more to the decision about our partners than what we "choose". You may want to do some research on that.

I can agree with you on that, but, the reason is because of breeding. Say you have three sets of couples, one set both man and woman has great genes, thus they have a child with better traits. Then the second couple they both have bad genes, they have a child who has not improved on humanity. Then the third couple one has great genes and the other has bad genes, the child might excel humanity in some areas and not excel in some.

Hmm...nope, see...what are great genes? What might be "great" genes for a given situation might not be "great" for a different one. If it wasn't for our ability to adapt the environment, and not otherwise you'd understand that. White people are not adapted to an arid environment, from where we originally evolved, reason why dark colored people exist in the first place. Dark colored people do not have the genes for cold environment's, thus the existance of white people...they didn't "breed" into different colors, the environment shaped them before they used tools that prevented that, like clothing, or houses. Understand yet? No breeding, evolution only.

Originally posted by Stari
Well thank goodness for that!

Lol, did you even understand the virus explanation??

Originally posted by Stari
I'm not being bold. I have eyes, I watch the documentaries on TV that show these few fossil bones that where found and archeologists paste together a whole monkey skeleton from maybe 3 skeletal bones and they call it evolution. Come on now, you do not need to be a scholar to know that is so wrong. Especially when I do know a bit about breeding.

So it's only human evoultion you don't understand?? And you base your opinion on a documentary??? Knowing a "bit" about breeding does not make you an expert on genetics...sorry. And then how come our DNA is so closely related to chimps and other apes? Any explanation for that? Maybe want a documentary on that, because there are plenty....
And not only apes, we are related to other species in some way as well...did Atlanteans from Mars did all this????

I have Chihuahuas and before I started breeding them I decided to check into it so I would not make mistakes. This taught me alot about breeding and different breeds of dogs. This made me start thinking about what archeologists say about the very few bones that they have found. They piece these few bones together into what they believe this person/ape breed looked like.

Reconstruction is commonly done by forensics, and paleontologists, and very accurately. So just a few skull fragments of specific bones are needed to make a very accurate reconstruction...and most findings include a skull...all what is needed. Not that many animals that have skulls that resemble ours, you know? Anyway, just in case you haven't read a lot on how well documented this things are...
Human Phylogenetic Tree

With all of this evolution talk that is going on and now that it has been said by Ioseb_Jugashvili that we are choosing our life partners and I know that this has to be what is making the changes in humanity that scientists call evolution.

Lol...nope, the choosing of our life partners is only a part of it, not the whole by any means.

What if my theory for Atlanteans coming here from Mars, or really any other planet, and breeding with the native humans and there for taking the better gene pool (Atlanteans) and mixing it up with the lesser gene pool (Earthlings). This could explain why technology went down hill after Atlantis went underwater.

Nope...humans evolved here and here alone, not Mars, or any other planet. We are related to species from here, the difference between our DNA and ape's is minimal, there is proof of our ancestors, prove of evolution...yet no proof of your theroy...none whatsoever but a fairy tale

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
"Self preservation"

aka:

"Self Pre-Serve"

aka:

"Self Before I Serve"

serve what?

??? Your usage of english is a little wonky here. Self preservation has nothing to do with 'self before I serve' it's all to do with instinctive preservation of oneself from injury or danger. Please look it up in a dictionary. Deconstructing english terms is never a good idea - the language has scavanged things from many languages and often makes no logical sense.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
really? find me one, please, just one messenger from god, just one angel who did not begin the message from TRUTH by stating:
"Be Not Afraid"

In the absence of any evidence at all to the contary I do not believe in angels. Or for that matter gods. I am a very happy atheist.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
sure it is. they probably originated (perhaps more than likely) from earth, but from earth's future, and travelled into the past.

I have heard of this theory before. But I have not found much information on it so that I can research it better.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
What is the opposite of Love?

Emptiness

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Evolutionary gene?

I know there is no such thing as an evolutionary gene. I was trying to show you how silly your statement sounded to me. I guess I did not do a good job of it.

What I meant to say was that genes cannot shut themselves off and then turn themselves back on again can they? And if your answer is yes then can you please direct me to the source link for your answer so that I can read this for myself. Thank you.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
traits that are not atractive to us subconciously, will not survive.

I don't know about you Ioseb but I have known some really ugly people, so yes it does survive.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
White people are not adapted to an arid environment, from where we originally evolved, reason why dark colored people exist in the first place. Dark colored people do not have the genes for cold environment's, thus the existance of white people...they didn't "breed" into different colors, the environment shaped them before they used tools that prevented that, like clothing, or houses.

Well see, I don't believe that people are different colors because of the climate they live in. That is a scientist theory that cannot be proven. Now if it has been proven since the last time I have read about this then please send me a source link to back up what you are saying.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Lol, did you even understand the virus explanation??

I do now.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
And you base your opinion on a documentary??? Knowing a "bit" about breeding does not make you an expert on genetics...sorry.

Oh don't be sorry Ioseb, you see I have never claimed to know anything about genetics, have you read my previous posts???

My opinions are based on many years (15 to 20 yrs) worth of research into the possibility of Atlanteans existing. My research has delved into some archeology, anthropology, geology and alot of other subjects. I am no expert at any of these subjects but I know enough to know what is being talked about when I am in a conversation with someone.

As far as genetics goes you yourself said that you are not a geneticist, so what is your experience with genetics??? I would like to know who is trying to change my mind on evolution.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
And then how come our DNA is so closely related to chimps and other apes? Any explanation for that? Maybe want a documentary on that, because there are plenty....
And not only apes, we are related to other species in some way as well...did Atlanteans from Mars did all this????

Scientists say that some where in time chimps gene split and then they had a baby and that one baby was different and apparently that one chimp started a whole new evolutionary chain of human. So here we have the reason why there are still chimps today and why half of a chimp population turned into humans after millions of years of evolution? IMO I do not think so. This would mean that more than one monkey had the same gene split, how else could a whole population of humans occur?

Yes there are plenty of documentaries that explain that we (every living being) are connected in one way or another.

Did Atlanteans from Mars did all what?

And thank you for that link, I plan on reading through that site and hopefully get a better idea of genetics. But just glancing at it quickly showed me that even the scientists are debating about ancestor/descendent relationships of early humans. And did you know that once scientists believed that Neandrathals where part of our evolutionary tree??? They where wrong.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Lol...nope, the choosing of our life partners is only a part of it, not the whole by any means.

I totally agree with you on that, there is also a persons life experiences that can effect peoples living. Dont we (for the most part) learn from our elders and try not to make the same mistakes that they made?

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Nope...humans evolved here and here alone, not Mars, or any other planet. We are related to species from here, the difference between our DNA and ape's is minimal, there is proof of our ancestors, prove of evolution...yet no proof of your theroy...none whatsoever but a fairy tale

If Atlanteans did come here it would have been many thousands of years ago, maybe even hundreds of thousands of years ago. With out having a baseline of their genes how can someone know for sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that they did not mix with our gene pool once upon a time (pardon the fairy tale pun). But maybe only a geneticist can answer this question? If you choose to try to answer this one Ioseb then please provide me with source links, thanks.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
...here is a question for you all:

What is the opposite of Love?

Indifference.

Harte

are you sure indifference is not an excuse/mask for fear?

Originally posted by Darkmind

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
"Self preservation"

aka:

"Self Pre-Serve"

aka:

"Self Before I Serve"

serve what?

??? Your usage of english is a little wonky here. Self preservation has nothing to do with 'self before I serve' it's all to do with instinctive preservation of oneself from injury or danger. Please look it up in a dictionary.

perhaps you think i am the moron here, i see. but obviously you interpret the "prefex" of "PRE" to mean something other than "BEFORE". Please look it up in a dictionary.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
really? find me one, please, just one messenger from god, just one angel who did not begin the message from TRUTH by stating:
"Be Not Afraid"

In the absence of any evidence at all to the contary I do not believe in angels. Or for that matter gods. I am a very happy atheist.

hope you have a clue as to what happens when one is "at heist". you might meet a thief in the night.



[edit on 4-10-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

[edit on 4-10-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Stari

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
What is the opposite of Love?

Emptiness

if empty, then dead. emptiness and being alive, improbable. emptiness is fear succumbing to another emotion or concept, other than love or truth.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Evolutionary gene?

I know there is no such thing as an evolutionary gene. I was trying to show you how silly your statement sounded to me. I guess I did not do a good job of it.

What I meant to say was that genes cannot shut themselves off and then turn themselves back on again can they? And if your answer is yes then can you please direct me to the source link for your answer so that I can read this for myself. Thank you.

interesting points here, well worded, too. maybe not shutting the cell off altogether, but attaining a level of self awareness, a level of consciousness where one becomes conscious enough to reprogram one's own dna. i can offer some reading material, a source, a link, but you already have formed an opinion about it, so i will try to meet you part way, and if my words make sense, then keep them and share them with whomever you want. if at any time you think i am trying to decieve you, or lie to you, then please disregard my words and read no further, i beg you.

what is 0 + 0?

zero plu zero is zero, right?

what is 0 + 0 + 0?

still zero, right?

what is the sum of a few billion zeros?

still zero, right?

if enough people tell you enough times that you are ugly, you more than likely will start to believe it, right?

if enough people tell you enough times that you are stupid, you more than likely will start to believe it, right?

go look in a mirror, and tell yourself how many you see.

you see one, right?

now, every brain cell that it took to tell yourself that there is only one must determine how a bunch of cells that are zero self aware, zero consciousnesses, and zero intelligences add up to make 1 who is, when no matter how many zeros you add up, you still only have a zero.

how conscious does one have to be to communicate with their own cells, and how conscious does one have to be to able to re-program their own dna?

answer = zero. this can be accomplished without the death of the physical self, but merely by keeping a journal, and as you write in it know, absolutley know that no one else shall ever read it.

why is this important for atlantis? because it is only in your conscious mind (0.000000002%) of your own minds thoughts that you can only remember your past, and not everything, to include the future .. . .

insane, me? insane means to be within one's own mind, right? so if another says i am in my mind, then don't they have to be in my mind to see that i am in my mind? and if they are in my mind, are they not "OUT OF THEIR MINDS"???

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
traits that are not atractive to us subconciously, will not survive.

what if our conscious minds are not attractive to our subconscious minds? then does the conscious mind die, or does the person die because of their subconscious minds? interesting side-note: all incoming information from all our senses, first gets delivered to the subconscious mind, so which has more information?


just some thoughts, i thank you for your time, and i thank you for my time as well.

Originally posted by Stari
What I meant to say was that genes cannot shut themselves off and then turn themselves back on again can they? And if your answer is yes then can you please direct me to the source link for your answer so that I can read this for myself. Thank you.

All genes are being used at all times, nevertheless, imagining we didn’t have tools, and we couldn’t shape our environment, then we’d be shaped like it, like all other animals and creatures. So then, people with better adaptation to given circumstances would prevail above people that do not. Genes can’t be shut off, and I never said they can.

The reason we don’t run like a cheetah, is because we have no need to, because we have a tool called a car, a tool that avoids us the evolutionary path to do so…clear yet?? If we had to run like a cheetah, and only people that ran like that could, then evolution would sort out the slower ones, unless they adapted. Clear yet???

Originally posted by Stari
I don't know about you Ioseb but I have known some really ugly people, so yes it does survive.

Ugly to your point of view. You are viewing it at a very shallow point of view. Beauty changes over time, what is ugly to you now, could have been a goddess before.

What I meant was subconcious attraction, such as mutations. Mutations are inherently unatractive to us, therefore, you don’t see people walking around with tails, or an extra arm or such.
Most of those people were sorted out during our evolution. The reason some do still exist, is receeding genes, genes that aren’t dominant, so you can’t know in an obvious way if someone has it or not until it presents itself on a next generation…
I hope I was very clear.

Originally posted by Stari
Well see, I don't believe that people are different colors because of the climate they live in. That is a scientist theory that cannot be proven. Now if it has been proven since the last time I have read about this then please send me a source link to back up what you are saying.

Well it comes down to the melanin (I really hope you know what that is)
It can be quite proven. Darker melanin protects better protection from sunlight, northern region face a different kind of light and have differente needs of Vitamin D (I hope you know too what Vitamin D is…) and most racial variations have good explanations, and yes, since you claim a source, here is a 10 page forum filled with all the info you’ll need to clear your doubts. How did the different human races evolve?
So yes, it can be all proven by simple direct experiments, hope it was very clear.

Originally posted by Stari
Oh don't be sorry Ioseb, you see I have never claimed to know anything about genetics, have you read my previous posts???

You can’t dismiss evolution if you know nothing about genetics then, and yes I’m sorry to say so.

My opinions are based on many years (15 to 20 yrs) worth of research into the possibility of Atlanteans existing. My research has delved into some archeology, anthropology, geology and alot of other subjects. I am no expert at any of these subjects but I know enough to know what is being talked about when I am in a conversation with someone.

So your many years (15-20) worth of research, missed completely the evolutionary history of the planet? Or missed to see that if there was no evolution, we still would be single cellular life forms?? You can’t adapt reality to what you want it to be, evolution is a reality, wether you can figure it out with your Chihuahuas or not.

As far as genetics goes you yourself said that you are not a geneticist, so what is your experience with genetics??? I would like to know who is trying to change my mind on evolution.

My experience is reading many, many books of genetics, evolution, phisiology and medicine.

I invest regularly on companies that study the genetics for new drugs and more, such as plants naturally resistant to harsh weather or lack of water, or pests. The kind of things that could help make better the world and have less hunger. So yes, I’m no genetist, but I have extensive knowledge in that particular field.

Originally posted by Stari
Scientists say that some where in time chimps gene split and then they had a baby and that one baby was different and apparently that one chimp started a whole new evolutionary chain of human. So here we have the reason why there are still chimps today and why half of a chimp population turned into humans after millions of years of evolution? IMO I do not think so. This would mean that more than one monkey had the same gene split, how else could a whole population of humans occur?

Hehehe…nono, we didn’t evolve from chimps. Chimps are part of a group called the apes. We are closely related, closer than you could possibly imagine.
Chimps Humans 96 percent the same, National Geographic
And it’s just 4% percent in our genes that make the great obvious differences among our species. Meaning that for us to have such a close relationship to that group, it’s beyond obvious we evolved from that group.

We had an ape ancestor, naturally, more adapted apes of that group, not one but several similarily adapted (note the word similar and not exactly the same) began surviving better than others. That is called natural selection. So the ones better adapted survived better and reproduced more than the ones that didn’t. So no, not one “chimp” (that statement is completely wrong, it was an ape, not just a chimp) but a group began evolving, and among themselves, began being naturally selected.

Explanation continues…the ones not well adapted, went extinct, as it naturally happens every day, and the ones better adapted survived. That’s the reason you don’t see our ancestors walking around. Why there are still chimps around. Because it’s a good design, a design that survived many others, and that as of now, gives us insight on our ancestors. Why? Because they are starting to use tools too…ooh, the beauty of evolution isn’t it?? Chimps Shown Using Not Just a Tool but a "Tool Kit"

Yes there are plenty of documentaries that explain that we (every living being) are connected in one way or another.

Yet being connected to other beings is not proof enough for you of evolution….hmmmm

And thank you for that link, I plan on reading through that site and hopefully get a better idea of genetics. But just glancing at it quickly showed me that even the scientists are debating about ancestor/descendent relationships of early humans. And did you know that once scientists believed that Neandrathals where part of our evolutionary tree??? They where wrong

Of course there is discussion…it’s called science, science wouldn’t move forward without discussion. Neanderthals were proof of evolution, yes, they were wrong in butting it in our tree, yet it proofs the use of tools by humanoids, and yet they became extinct…by our hand apparently.

Originally posted by Stari
I totally agree with you on that, there is also a persons life experiences that can effect peoples living. Dont we (for the most part) learn from our elders and try not to make the same mistakes that they made?

Well…supposedly we learn from our mistakes…yet somehow history tries hard to repeat itself…life experiences shape a people’s personality, not it’s gene, I agree experience is very important, but we’re talking about genetics here, not society.

Originally posted by Stari
If Atlanteans did come here it would have been many thousands of years ago, maybe even hundreds of thousands of years ago. With out having a baseline of their genes how can someone know for sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that they did not mix with our gene pool once upon a time (pardon the fairy tale pun). But maybe only a geneticist can answer this question? If you choose to try to answer this one Ioseb then please provide me with source links, thanks.

Hundreds of thousands?? Nope…see, your many years worth of research (15-20) may have missed that human related DNA is traceable to 120-150k at most, and it belongs to people with barely any culture or society formed in Ethiopia…so no, no aliens came down to enlighten or , and a strand from “alien” DNA would remain if they ever bred with us.

Reason that strand doesn’t exist, and our DNA can be traced to a single group of ancestors…is because there were no Aliens breeding with us. DNA is like your genealogy book, and there are no Atlanteans in it. A strange DNA strand would stand out like a sore thumb…yet it doesn’t…so yes, it’s well proven without a shadow of doubt.

If they had come earlier than 100k we would have civilizations by that time…yet we were just hunter-collectors…so no, no human mixing with aliens, or “atlanteans for mars”. If there any breeding with us, it wouldn’t be possible to trace our DNA that far back without it showing…clear now??

Here is our oldest ancestor…traceable with no Alien strands…lol 160,000 year old skulls from Ethiopia

Originally posted by Stari

I have images that I have collected from NASA’s public image archive that show the remnants of a civilization that once lived on Mars. I also have an image of a hieroglyph on a stone that was found on Mars. A hieroglyph means that after the Atlanteans were forced to leave Mars and settle here on Earth that they spread their knowledge to the people that where here, the people we know call the Egyptians.

VERY good work! Excellent!



Absolutely perfect for ATS' Ancient and Lost Civilizations.

IMO - your evidence showing that Atlanteans were forced to leave Mars and settle here on Earth constitutes far, FAR more substantial evidence of an ancient and lost civilization than for example, the fact that the I Ching is based on a binary numerical system, and contains a calendar similar to the Mayan calendar.

Keep up the good work.




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Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
The reason some do still exist, is receeding genes, genes that aren’t dominant, so you can’t know in an obvious way if someone has it or not until it presents itself on a next generation…

So does this mean that even if someone with a gene that is going to change the way humanity is, and that person breeds with someone else then that gene will be passed on to the child no matter who that person breeds with?

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
here is a 10 page forum filled with all the info you’ll need to clear your doubts. How did the different human races evolve?

I will definitely read this forum over. Thanks for the link.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
You can’t dismiss evolution if you know nothing about genetics

Oh yes I can. Until scientists can fill in the missing links to that evolutionary tree then it can be dismissed as a theory, one that has not yet been proven 100%. Especially since there are other theories that are out there and yes they cannot be proven 100% either. This is why the continuation of research and studies is very important to mankind.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
So your many years (15-20) worth of research, missed completely the evolutionary history of the planet?

Ok, are you talking Geology, Anthropology or Genetics? I have not studied genetics, I have studied Geology and anthropology. I do not believe that we all came from apes. If modern humans came from a branch of the ape family then where did Neanderthals come from? Has that even been studied yet? It was not so long ago that scientists claimed that Neanderthals were part of our evolutionary tree. This proved that their theories can sometimes be wrong. They are only human.

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Chimps Humans 96 percent the same, National Geographic

Mice, men share 99 percent of genes

Ok now, if humans and chimps only share 96 percent of the same genes and mice and men share 99 percent then why don't scientists say that humans came from mice? Maybe because that would be ridiculous?

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
but we’re talking about genetics here, not society

So you do not believe that society has any bases on how an individual changes?

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Hundreds of thousands?? Nope…see, your many years worth of research (15-20) may have missed that human related DNA is traceable to 120-150k at most

You see this is why I do not pick one subject and only study it. Around 10,000 years ago the last ice age ended which means that the glaciers melted covering shorelines with about 200 ft of water. This leaves lots of land covered by sediments, sand and mud then lots of water. No one knows what is under all of that.

Link on ice ages

Ice age From Wikipedia

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
A strange DNA strand would stand out like a sore thumb…yet it doesn’t…so yes, it’s well proven without a shadow of doubt.

So scientists have finally cracked the entire geno code?

Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Here is our oldest ancestor…traceable with no Alien strands…lol 160,000 year old skulls from Ethiopia

Actually the oldest so far is 195,000 years old

See how quick the things we know today changes from what we knew yesterday.

I am not saying that there is no evolution at all. All things change for what ever reason need be. I do not base my opinions only on breeding chihuahua's. I used that as a bases of a possibility of what could have happened.

I have found on forums that if someone does not believe as someone else does then there are some people out there that can get very defensive. There is no need for that.

I try to keep an open mind when I am presented with a new idea or opinion. Ioseb, you say you read lot's of books on genetics and evolution, I do not read those kinds of books. My favorite books are on archeology and ancient history. You and I are reading books that people wrote who believe in evolution and in my case archeology, they only wish to make a buck or two so when they write their books they are not going to put in there that there are other possibilities other than evolution, that would not sell their book now would it? I read books and watch documentaries that tell what is actually found in the way of archeology. Then I base my own opinions on the findings. I listen to what the scientists say about their findings and I hold onto that until it is proven wrong by another finding.

I have been away from this thread for a few weeks now, life took me to North Carolina's Lowes International Speedway for the busch race. I went VIP all the way, I had a blast! I just got back to my home and I am now trying to get over strep throat that I have been fighting for a couple of weeks. I am off work for a few days and I find myself on my thread that I started to talk about Atlantis but instead I am discussing evolution.

Do genes change within a person? I am sure they do, but I do not know for sure because I no nothing about genetics. It is only common sense that they would change. Do I believe that humans came from apes solely because their genes split and changed over large amounts of time and one day modern humans appeared on the scene? No, there is not enough evidence that shows that genes mutating and splitting where the only cause of present day modern humans.

I believe that it is possible that an intelligent civilization lived on another planet and came to Earth after life on their planet was no longer possible. They bred with the intelligent people who inhabited this planet, perhaps Neanderthals, and continued their civilization here on Earth and called themselves Atlanteans. Is there proof of all of this? No, but the clues are adding up. And one day I believe they will prove this to be true. Will I be alive when this happens? Man I hope so, doubtful though.

reply to post by Stari


you will have to read martian genesis - its a great book.
i too am interested in this topic - but can you give us some evidence you have found in your research to verify your beliefs - i have watched many documentaries but they all say the same basic clues.

reply to post by mamasita


Hi mamasita, I think that there is a lot of evidence that shows there was an advanced civilization on Mars at one time. Here are some links to these items that helped bring me to this conclusion:

This is an awfully weird looking rock wouldn’t you say?
www.toledoconnection.com...

This is a bug flying around.
www.toledoconnection.com...

I know that doesn’t mean there used to be an advanced civilization on Mars but never the less it is life IMO.

The most compelling evidence to date is located here:
Skull On Mars

I have also read and done research on other peoples work and I came to my conclusions from that as well.

More research on the skull:
Another website with info on the skull on Mars

Thanks for the link to that book, I might buy it or try renting it at the library.

Star

reply to post by Stari


hi and thank you for all the info

i studied in the university in my past-just for 6 mounth-egypt and hierogliphics-and the history of the pharaon' s dinasty..
i'm in italy,rome..
so wonderfull and unbeliveble fantastic part of all hte humans past..

after this,i read lots and lots of messages that the"extraterrestrian"leave to us with the contacted..

Atlantis was a wonderful place where the love and the respect was the basic of all the humans life..in that time the"gods and goddes" was living with the peaple,helping and teaching..and leading on the right ways..
but,as we know unfiortunatly really good,the bad things,the power of decide for everyone..this start to destroy step by step the civilization..
peaple,pushed by someone else that want have the power,star to go against the "god and goddes"'cause they was Leading them,and this start the fight..

after this the gods leave with them spaceship,leaving the beautiful PARADISE and leaving the humans go on with them choice..this destroied Atlantis..
the most smart,that learn from the gods start to save themselves and with normal boat,on the ocean,go for a new land..hope that the god cxan maybe forgive them..
from there a lots of boat,when atlantis star to sink as a punishment from the gods-cause they go over the"line"- and go to the other land of this world that we are living on..
in egipt we have the egiptian,in america latina we have the maya and aztechi..
in ireland the Celtian..
and on..

today lots of students declair that that times,when atlantis sink was at the end of one Era,like what will happend to us the 2012..

if i find again the pictures about the atlntis sinking and the boiat living in all direction i'll try to post..

reply to post by exteel


Thank you for this info. Yes I would love to see anything that you have to document this information. I have never heard of this before.

Thanks again.
Star