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Why are NDE's Not Given any Credit?

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posted on Jan, 19 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by I_s_i_s
Christians are predisposed to see jesus at the end of the tunnel, muslims see mohammed, hindus see krishna, cannibals see digestive people etc etc at the end of the tunnel. An atheist may see jesus christ too, getting another lash. It doesnt prove the existence of God.


What you say makes sense, but one thing is unclear to me, and if that was purposeful, I don't need to know. I was wondering if you bellieve in an afterlife? Or do you mean that these people are just imagining it, and their brains are creating the images?




posted on Jan, 19 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

What you say makes sense, but one thing is unclear to me, and if that was purposeful, I don't need to know. I was wondering if you bellieve in an afterlife? Or do you mean that these people are just imagining it, and their brains are creating the images?



I wont discount the fact that there may be an afterlife. I'm a spiritual atheist...or rather the atheist version of a buddhist. There are many things that remain unaccounted for and NDEs also require further research and attention.

If I strongly believe in a mystical King kong, chances are that I'll see him at the end of the tunnel. But that still doesnt discount "something" being at the end of the tunnel. Will let you know when I get there.



posted on Jan, 19 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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It was just a curiosity I had, and though I have seen enough to believe it, I totally bellieve you when you say you haven't. I am not 'there' either, really, in that I know I don't know far more than I know, lol.
It is going to be hard to be 100% sure without dying.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 10:31 AM
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Does anyone else who's done some research on NDE's find it odd that even though the experience itself tends to differ from person to person, the message that they come back with is a constant one?

No matter if they saw King Kong =], or Budha, or God Himself, whomever they met up with in their 'experience' the message is always to learn and to love. At least that's my take on it. I've only read about 6 or 8 books on the subject so I definitely wouldn't qualify myself as an expert. But each person who has shared their individual accounts of how they 'died' and what happened afterwards.... most, if not all of them saw a life's review, then had a epiphany for lack of a better term of the bigger picture of what life here is supposed to be about. Many of the accounts I'd read also spoke of a major life change within the person who came back... all for the better.

I don't want to get on a soapbox here or anything, I was just wondering if any of you had a theory as to why there is so many commonalities or similar accounts on such a wide spread basis?

I agree to that there should be more studies and research done in this field... I can understand the theory of the brain's lack of oxygen and some sort of discharge or dreamlike state that comes with the event... but what about the people who are say... in surgery? They have an ample supply of oxygen yet many of people who've 'died' on the table come back to talk about who and what they saw while they were floating in either the operating room or waiting room.... down to the conversations they heard.

Could this also fall under the lack of oxygen theory? I don't think so, but... I can't say ALL of them can be neatly tucked into a NDE catagory, and I also can't say ALL of them are indeed from the same trigger either.... which brings me back to why do they all come back with the same message? whew... it hurts my brain just trying to consider all the possiblities..



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Fliesatnite
Could this also fall under the lack of oxygen theory? I don't think so, but... I can't say ALL of them can be neatly tucked into a NDE catagory, and I also can't say ALL of them are indeed from the same trigger either.... which brings me back to why do they all come back with the same message? whew... it hurts my brain just trying to consider all the possiblities..



I think insecurity and fear makes a person totally overlook the bigger picture and concentrate on the mental solid manifestations(if thats even a phrase) like jesus and king kongs.

Oxygen theory doesnt cut it. The first and foremost obstacle that we face while trying to solve the NDE mystery is that it cannot be reproduced at will. Even if we're ready with our logical tools, we have to determine which story needs attention. If people say they saw jesus, and God and unicorns and dead relatives and such and yet cannot provide any proof of being out of body, that experience goes out the window for scientific purposes. If a person who had an NDE is able to state a fact that can be proven true and if that person had no way of knowing that fact under any other circumstances ...then we have a successfull experiment. A few of these and we'd have a good sample to work with.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 01:13 PM
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It is an ndignity, to predetermine that the experience has some different explanation than the witness is firmly standing by, is no compliment. You can say it is not an insult, but it usually is. When you die, some weird stuff goes on, that I strongly doubt will be explained by biologists, neurologists, Psychologists, chemists, or psychiatrists. It is real. Or every one of those millions of accounts is able to be dismissed. Some are bound to be something else, but try trust. I have no fear of any terrible repercussions I may face for believing one of these things and learning I was fooled. Big deal. I am as sure as I can be about anything that people in my life were honest, and intelligent. When my friends grandma told her two friends what they had been wearing when she saw them in the waiting area, I heard that they didn't take it well. Jaws dropped. How can this be? Well, it can. If I say I saw something i did. If most people werent there, they are sure it is not as I say. Well it was. Too bad if they think they know better. they don't. I have seen too many things to continue to have the unloving, discrediting, suspicious, self important, superior attitude which allows folks to sneer, to smirk, to chuckle, roll their eyes.... nice.
I do not approve. It is understandable to not believe. Of course. But don't assume that these events aren't real. The person who was there has a better take on it. I know I did. It is easy to critical and assume the story is not quite right as told, cuz you don't know how to prove it, easy due to lack of information. When you have the information, you don't do that. You trust first. Not everybody on earth is crazy liars.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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Oxygen theory doesnt cut it. The first and foremost obstacle that we face while trying to solve the NDE mystery is that it cannot be reproduced at will. Even if we're ready with our logical tools, we have to determine which story needs attention. If people say they saw jesus, and God and unicorns and dead relatives and such and yet cannot provide any proof of being out of body, that experience goes out the window for scientific purposes. If a person who had an NDE is able to state a fact that can be proven true and if that person had no way of knowing that fact under any other circumstances ...then we have a successfull experiment. A few of these and we'd have a good sample to work with.


I agree with you there, I don't believe the oxygen theory either. I also think people have been hesitant in the past to talk about any NDE's for fear of ridicule (there's that fear thing again!) and of being thought crazy or simply discounted.

As far as successfull 'experiments' are concerned... I don't think it's as much of an experiemental type situation as much as a data gathering. I, personally wouldn't volunteer to an experiment such as this..
BUT, if I did have a NDE I would certainly want to share my experience for the collection of data. Even though, I knew what you meant by your comment, I was being literal in a elbow to the ribs sort of way.

I also want to point out that even though in the past NDE's and OBE's have not been taken very seriously.. I do believe (hope) a trend is on the way. The more people discuss them and have 'back up or verifiable' information like you stated, such as clothing, who was present, what conversations took place etc. The more researchers will be interested.

Personally, I believe many more people have had them than speak up about it and I find them fascinating. I come from a very paranormal background. Having many OBE's (both verifiable and non-verifiable) I believe these things are a real event. Not from brain discharge or lack of oxygen... even if they aren't tangible.. but then again neither is faith or emotions, but we still have those.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 01:58 PM
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BlackguardXIII,

I hope you don't think that I disbelieve NDE's... it's actually just the total opposite. I, like you have seen waayyy too many things in my lifetime to ignore such possibilities exist. Which I'd stake my life on for that matter. I've had many OBE's where people have scoffed at me, yet they were precog. and ended up in the news.... many many times. Far be it from me to be a non believer!

If you told me a story about something incredibly wild that happened to you in a paranormal realm I would not discount it, nor would I scoff or make you feel silly for sharing, I would open my mind and try to see/feel/experience your event. After all, I would want (expect) people to believe me when I share my experiences.

I will, however, try to look at things objectively. I would attempt to see if something made sense to me.. logically.. that doesn't mean I don't believe you, it only means I want to 'prove' all other things logical are actually NOT. To rule out any skeptics quick witted answer by saying oh it's just this or that... I would want my ducks in a row to say... okay explain this to me Mr or Mrs. Skeptic and make it sound rational... make sense?

My list of gifts is abundant and I am happy to accept them, as I am, among other things a Medium, an empath, clairvoyant, clairaudient, and a precog. I am happy to serve and share my gifts. I don't shout from the rooftops to all who'll listen as I realize that there are many people out there who'd rather throw me under the bus. That's okay, I'm used to the skeptics and the non believers. I don't care if they don't belive me... I DO care if you are a believer and think I'm making accusations to the contrary.. I want to keep that line of communication very clear.

Peace be with you, fellow traveler.

Fliesatnite



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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I think the old way of thinking is that,"What you can't see or touch, isn't real." OR~The mind is creating a hallucination from lack of oxygen to the brain"...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................


I think that it IS A REAL Phenomena......



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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It prves that there is 'something' going on, what it is and where it is is left to those that view it and return.....

Personally, I think that YOU ARE WHAT YOU THINK....\


Mind over matter, so to speak.
People can manifest all kinds of things into their material lives, see scientific studies done on the 'placebo effect'.
They give a cancer patient a sugar pill, they tell him it is a newly discovered cure, and that it wqill work right away.
1,2,3, months later, NO SIGNS OF CANCER.
Then, they tell him, it was only a sugar pill, the patient is sick again and dies right away...

THIS IS SIMILIAR.........

If you are Christian, and believe in 'Heaven' and 'Hell', you will most likely go to one or the other..
Whether you are Pagan, Buddist, Hindu, Wiccan, New Age, Muslim, or whatever.......so it goes for you.

This is my opinion on the subject.
i hope it does not offend too many.....


There are many studies that have been done on this subject. Search on the net for verification. There are a few books written on the subject too, but I do not hav the names in front of me right now...




posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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I pretty much have no choice as to whether or not I believe the possibilities exist. I would have to dismiss my own experiences to say they are not possible. I have two of these experiences which are relevent. One is an example of why I believe in life after death. The other is my fiances OOBE, which I cannot otherwise explain.

I used to work with a fellow who's wife died of lung cancer, though she was a nurse who never smoked.
After she passed on, he raised their two daughters as a single dad. It was about a year from her diagnosis until she was gone.
Around a month before she passed on she told him that she was going to send him some kind of a sign.
He is a very honest, family-oriented, devout Catholic, and I honestly cannot see him lying about something this serious.
Then, from her hospital bed a week before she passed on, she told him she knew what the sign would be....lightning.
I have only been to one funeral in my life, and it was scheduled for 1 P.M., one Saturday, at a local Catholic Church.
As we arrived it was pouring rain out, really hard, the sky was completely filled by very thick, very low overcast clouds, and it made midday as dark as if it was dusk.
We sat down, got settled in, and then boom, thunder, and the lights in the church went out for a couple of minutes.
My friend told me that when the thunder struck, he immediately looked at his watch and, by coincidence, it was 1 o'clock on the dot.
After the funeral was over we came out to find there wasn't a cloud in the sky; I looked in every direction.
Everything was soaked and dripping, yet the sun was shining, making the roads reflect a blinding glare.
I know that it comforted the guy I worked with, you should have seen his eyes as he told us about it.
It was after the funeral standing in the parking lot.
He is a quiet guy, so he started by mentioning the lightning, then he said something like, ' ya know what was odd about that....'
and told us about the two talks he'd had with his wife just before she died.
His eyes told me that it was very comforting to him.
And I totally believed him.
No one else did, and I could see that he could see that, and that it maybe hurt him a bit that they didn't.
A few months ago, while I was visiting my fiance in hospital, where she was still rehabbing from a severe brain injury,
she looked at me with wide eyes, and said "See the ducks in the park.", i said when you get better, we can do that, she
shook her head, wide eyes, trying to make her point, "see the ducks in the park." she said it at least three times, and
then dropped it. I replied the same way as the first each time, but knew I was missing something. This was at a time
when 3 word sentences were rare for her. the norm was one word. Pudding, More, Hi, etc. I went online after I got home
about four hours later and checked out the posts at a webgroup that I had requested prayers for her from, and had
been blessed to receive many. A woman who I had been in contact with from Portland Oregon (250 miles south of here)
, had a message for me. "K., did E. mention seeing the ducks in the park, cuz she really enjoyed it?" This friend
wrote to me that on her lunch break when she went across the street to the park and fed the ducks, my fiancees
spirit visited her and enjoyed the visit. I wouldn't have believed that, except for the fact that she did mention it,
three times. I replied to her question. 'yes, she did.'



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 04:55 PM
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Thank you so much for sharing both of those stories, they both warmed my heart. I have a similar story about a funeral and my Grandmother, but that's for another post and another day....

I'm very happy for the Man at your work... I only hope that he realizes it doesn't matter 'who' believes him or not, it's whether or not HE believes she gave him his sign. That message wasn't for everyone else anyway... it was for him. I hope he cherishes everytime he hears lightening, I'm sure he'll think of her!

Your Fiance`s experience was probably (hopefully) something she'll be able to go into detail about when she's able to. She must have had fun with the ducks and the feeling of being free from the physical body and with out any pain or feeling bound by earthly things. What an amazing and very cool story.. I hope you will keep us posted as to her well being and be able to tell us more details in the near future!

Sometimes I wonder, since I see and hear things that others do not (specifically manifestations), It makes me think that perhaps not all of them are deceased individuals (even though I'm fully aware that most of them are), but what if I have seen someone having an OBE? Like your Fiance's friend in th park... I'd actually be interested to hear her story on what happened. Do you have it to share?



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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I don't want to get on a soapbox here or anything, I was just wondering if any of you had a theory as to why there is so many commonalities or similar accounts on such a wide spread basis?

Let me try to explain how it was for me.The universe runs like a well-ordered mainframe, each entity does their job to perfection, and they put out a call for all the relatives and friends of the 'dying' and they stand wait in the tunnel with welcoming smiles.
At the end of the tunnel the Light KNOWS where you are supposed to go answers all your questions, you are feeling so wonderful and warm, you acknowledge it has been that way for millions of years.
One joins others of their same ilk and the work begins. Do NOT think you will not be working, just without a body. That is as simple as I can break it down.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 05:32 PM
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I do not approve. It is understandable to not believe. Of course. But don't assume that these events aren't real. The person who was there has a better take on it. I know I did. It is easy to critical and assume the story is not quite right as told, cuz you don't know how to prove it, easy due to lack of information. When you have the information, you don't do that. You trust first. Not everybody on earth is crazy liars.


Nice way of thinking. I volunteer for hospice and for mental health institutes and some of the stories they tell will blow you mind.The reason there are so many inmates in asylums is that they have SEEN things that nobody believes and thus they are committed.
The reason I go to MH is that the MOST importane thing in a psychic break is to be able to smoke cigarettes, I take cartons and give them out generously.
In a way I think 'there but for the grace of G-d, go I' as I have not been seriously threatened of commitment.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 05:37 PM
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That's okay, I'm used to the skeptics and the non believers. I don't care if they don't belive me... I DO care if you are a believer and think I'm making accusations to the contrary.. I want to keep that line of communication very clear.


That is fine with me..I just TRY with all my soul to live as humble a life as I can, and be very careful not to create any bad karma.Peace.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 05:45 PM
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Yes, I do realize we all work over there, but I would think that it's MUCH more gratifying! I also understand that we have time to do the things we always wanted to do here but never had the time to get to it. Such as, if you were a painter or a singer or wanted to play an instrument that is something that is available. Personally.... I can't wait. But, I realize I must, for all the obvious reasons. *sigh*...

Would you be so kind as to share your experience with us or do you not want to post it on a public domain?



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by siriuslyone
In a way I think 'there but for the grace of G-d, go I' as I have not been seriously threatened of commitment.

I have a friend who has had a very rough time of it. She has seen some pretty wild stuff, too. She has been hospitalized, medicated, I think she is on a couple of different drugs right now. She is being forced to take them. It is the opinion of many of the people who diagnose her that she is just mentally ill. Her doctor apparently is more openminded.
I do not doubt her, because of some of the odd things that have happened that did not only involve her. I was on the other end, and unless she has a contagious mental illness that can travel thousands of miles, she is for real. Not a fun time for her alot of the time.



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 05:56 PM
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BlackGuard,

I tried to respond to your u2u but evidently you must have 20 posts to send one? Weird.

I got several impressions from your note and wanted to share them with you so... I guess I'll have to keep posting until I get to 20. =]

This other friend of yours that's in the hospital... was she committed?



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Fliesatnite
Yes, I do realize we all work over there, but I would think that it's MUCH more gratifying! I also understand that we have time to do the things we always wanted to do here but never had the time to get to it. Such as, if you were a painter or a singer or wanted to play an instrument that is something that is available. Personally.... I can't wait. But, I realize I must, for all the obvious reasons. *sigh*...

Would you be so kind as to share your experience with us or do you not want to post it on a public domain?

YES, what I am going to do is go to the musicians gigs that include George Harrison, Roy Orbison., Robert Johnson, etc...There is LOTS of fun.
I do not mind you reading of my exploits, enjoy..




nderf.org...'s_nde.htm



posted on Jan, 20 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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I do not doubt her, because of some of the odd things that have happened that did not only involve her. I was on the other end, and unless she has a contagious mental illness that can travel thousands of miles, she is for real. Not a fun time for her alot of the time.


Those drugs are poison and cause MUCH more suicides than cures.
Please give her the benefit of the doubt, the caretaker is CONVINCED she is insane..Those places are horrid, bad karma, I always take a bath and cleanse myself after I visit.



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