lucid dreaming, subliminal mesages, mind control?

Though I have not experienced OOBE for some time, (though I'd like to) and never as an adult, I have experienced another extra-or "other"- sensory experience in lucid dreaming.

Lucid dreaming is when you go from a passive state of subconciously dreaming, to becoming consciusly awake within your dream, and aware you are dreaming, and from there begin to control your thoughts and dreams.

What I want to explore is, unlike OOBE which have to do with the physical and spiritual separation of body and soul, and often the soul exploring the non-physical world's astral plane, where it would be most at home when outside of the physical body, thus comfortable outside of the physical world as well...there is lucid dreaming, which is the transforming from one's subconscious state to a conscious one, all the while staying physically unconscious-or asleep....so it's like an OOBE within the body! or in otehr words possibly an OOSD -an out-of-subconscious-dream!

Seriously though, I want to explore where your mind-if not your soul- is freed to live within a new plane of existance consciously, while your body is not thus conscious...and wheher you can consciously probe within your own subconscious mind?

Unconscious physically, but fully awake and aware mentally....and what are the possibilities? Benefits? Risks?

Also, what/who prevents this, allows it, influences it? What ultimately controls this? And who influences and attempts to control it? Are we in control? Subconsciously or consciously?

Or are we to think everything is "just a dream", to minimize/discount valid messages we may be trying to give ourselves or other's may be trying to give us? Who would want to control those messages and where would they come from and to what end would they be trying to reach us subliminally/subconsciously, or consciously lucidly unconscience?

Those who are not of this world, or were but have passed from this world? Or those who have not yet come? Would we be more mentally-spiritually accessable when our bodies sleep? And would it be when in a subconscious state or lucidly-dreaming/conscious-while-unconscious state

People think of subliminal messages as the evil things the government uses via TV, and advertisers use on billboards and comericals on tv, or both those perpetrators working their evil via movies etc...and while I do not contest the validity of such possibilities, what if there were subliminal messages for the good of mankind...from our own inner wisdom or from the wisdom of others outside of our physical realm as mentioned above? WHat if we could access them, probe for them within our subconscious when lucidly dreaming in that realm?

I have done this, lucid dreaming, both as a child and as an adult. Both unintentionally (at first-as in realizing I was dreaming and taking control, but not practicing it , or falling asleep with the intention of lucid dreaming) and intentionally as well.

I want to know is this something that can be suggested, or controled to do- or not to do, thus enable or disabling our abilities? Even through subliminal means perhaps.

Is lucid dreaming the act of exerting your own control and the result of not allowing yourself to thus be so externally conditioned to dream passively and be placated as a form of mind control...and/or is it a way to commune with yourself, understand yourself better, or with others? Or just a way to have fun?

I wonder this because many prophets-of many religions- saw God in dreams and visions didn't they? I wonder...how lucidly did we dream before TV, Movies, and other mind-numbing, when not influencing- or outright controling some to some degree-means?

...and if the dreams and visions of prophets were due to lucid dreaming-comuning consciously spiritually with our minds and souls while our bodies sleep-opening up the door to such virtual reality spiritually for such communion.

Or, for instance as we are more traditionally taught to understand, do we simply dream of that which happens in our daily lives, our subconscious memories making connections and impacting our perceptions of "today" in conjucntion with our past experiences for reference etc...as we are "supposed to" for a session of 'data dumping' to refresh our minds as well as our bodies for the next day while we sleep? And trhen where does lucid dreaming fit in?

Or when we dream of fantasy, ideas and daydreams of our own, hopes and dreams as it were,of more fantastic fantasies of meeting famous people or things we are "sold" we want/need and aspire to have/attain/ buy in life to ensure happiness...what good is that doing us? How is that data dumping? A dream, as much in real life as in sleeping, sold to us as it is perpetuated through Tv/entertainment and then through our own subconscious selling us on these same unrealistic consumer driven dreams on auto-pilot in our subscious, manifesting itself in our sleeping dreams....seems more sinister in nature and not like data dumping-but more uploading!

Is this perhaps near proof a subconscious scheme of mind control? Influencing our subconscious to the point of dictating our sleeping dreams of the ideal life of situations or love etc as well for a 24/7 barage of garbage?


Are there underlying subliminal messages we absorb daily and then process unconsciouslyat night in our sleep through our dreams, ensuring an ammount of control in our sleep as well as perpetuating a way of life and thinking when awake?

In lucid dreaming, I have found it difficult to organize-control people at times, even when I am aware it is a dream and can do things like fly, etc...I don't know where this limitation comes from....but I find it interesting to push the envelop of thought and control when dreaming lucidly.

Then I have to wonder, if my lack of ability in exercising conscious control in my dreams is a residual effect of mind control that has made me believe/perceive I am not in control of my life...to just go along with what I am fed to think and believe. I can and can't do and what I do and don't want in life..and even dream in life....and who/what is controling my thoughts and to what end?

I think of the prophets of old, even non-Judeo-Christian ones, who had visions in dreams, and wonder from where their inspiration came...I wonder if aborigines still living more primitive lives dream more lucidly than those who say... watch tv regularly.

I find even most people in moderenized society who watch little tv, still watch movies, and/or watch or read mind numbing-if not controling religious diatribes twice a week in a religeous setting, or grew up watching tv ...and converted to turning it off...and thus still most people feed their subconscious various garbage to digest while they sleep, and then dream of residual garbage.

Why is lucid dreaming rare? And is it in all cultures? What supresses our conscious mind in sleep, and how can we practice controling our own minds in our sleep-despite the many things that vie for control-even subliminally, and come out subconsciously.

Is lucid dreaming breaking out of conditioning and control, or just exploring the boundaries of what we are used to in dreaming?

If there is a risk of subliminal messages influencing us for control, even in manifesting in our dreams, perpetuating mind control in our sleep, ...is there a direct benefit of clarity by dreaming lucidly? Who would perpetuate such and to what end? Is it a physical/mental or an spiritual/existential question who is controling our minds when we sleep-and to what end-and can we take control?

I have found little on this as it's extremely subjective and so many people have little personal experience-that they will speak of-so I bring it to you. What is/are your experiences, dreams, knowledge or opinions of this?



[edit on 17-1-2006 by think2much]

[edit on 17-1-2006 by think2much]

[edit on 17-1-2006 by think2much]

Here is my take on all this. My opinions have been influenced to some degree in the last couple of months since I have begun hanging around this site. Currently my opinion on the matter is as stated below:

I have long been able to lucid dream ever since I can remember and for a long time I didn't even realise that it was something that most people don't normally experience. In the last few months I have started concentrating on haing lucid dreams at will in an attempt to experience Astreality (A made up term meaning to experience reality whilst in the Astral Plane). I have had limited success to date but do have 1 lucid dream per week on average now. In my dreams I can control the situation and the people that appear to a certain extent, but it requires a lot of mental effort. I am able to phase at will to another situation, thus never have to worry about negative spirits or nightmares. Due to this there is no need for me to run away or travel so to speak as I can just will myself into a different existence on command. Often I just go with the dream and do whatever I feel like as it is easier than creating my own dream due to the effort required. Lately though I now try to concentrate on phasing to a real location like New York or London depending on what time it is and reading the local paper to verify if what I'm seeing is real when I check it out on the internet the next day.

As far as what you can do, I now believe it is limited only by your imagination as to what you can do in a lucid dream and where you can go and what dimensions you can experience. I believe APing, OOBE psionic abilities and everything else you can think of can be accessed through lucid dreaming.

I have to go now, but I will try and continue this post later.

Thanks

Originally posted by mytym
In the last few months I have started concentrating on haing lucid dreams at will in an attempt to experience Astreality (A made up term meaning to experience reality whilst in the Astral Plane).

Ok, now you're just confusing me!

I realize the term 'Astreality' (perhaps Astroreality would fit better-it rolls off the tongue easier at least-JMO!) was made up but the concept seems to contradict what I thought of the reality of AP, and how it is experienced, etc.

I thought this plane (Astral plane) is experienced consciously already-but spiritually, as in out of your body (but not out of your mind ) so while I understand wanting to perfect lucid dreaming-as I am interested in doing- leading to possible easier OOBE in the AP by being more in control of the usual passive reality we confrom to...still, how would one lucidly dream themselves into an OOBE, or lucidly dream themsleves to a conscious AP experience-but only mentally...that seems to defeat the OOBE part of astral travel doesn't it...is everything only experienced as far as the brain can conceive and process, thus atral travel being "all in your head" afterall...or is their a seperation of mind/brain as their is of spirit and body...?

Originally posted by mytym
In my dreams I can control the situation and the people that appear to a certain extent, but it requires a lot of mental effort. I am able to phase at will to another situation, thus never have to worry about negative spirits or nightmares.

yes, it does take effort-alot sometimes and I haven't perfected things yet, but have never had a nightmare-seems contradictory to what I would want to create!

As for finding negative spirits in them...interesting...don't think I have but I've found it odd sometimes when I go from dreaming passively to lucid dreaming that some people in my dreams become dumbfounded as if in my control they have no 'life" in them-it's odd...

I too can phase into other dreams-themes, atmosphere, people etc...I can change that too-I like that.

Originally posted by mytym
Often I just go with the dream and do whatever I feel like as it is easier than creating my own dream due to the effort required.

I hear ya there! I've done the same, the effort of creating and commanding everything is extensive sometimes, and often I find in the middle of getting things to come about...with some frustration if they aren't conforming to my ideas entirely, I become wearied to the point I find I give up...let my subconscious take over and I'm dreaming again...

Originally posted by mytym
Lately though I now try to concentrate on phasing to a real location like New York or London depending on what time it is and reading the local paper to verify if what I'm seeing is real when I check it out on the internet the next day.

Ok, there you go again-confusing me! I realize it isn't too difficult to do sometimes but this seems like atral projection. This would be more of an OOBE to phase yourself to a real physical location such as NY or London-especially to the point of reqaqding a REAL newspaper for verification. Thats the kind of stuff I used to do when younger (although only in my house) when I would have OOBE and go to see physically if what I had seen when OOBE was correct...like when I'd spy on people etc....then I'd go back to my body, get up and go find them and see where they were, what they were up with, who else was with them etc...but this was OOBE, not any part of lucidly dreaming

It seems in my experience personally, lucid dreaming is limited to consciously being aware in my dreams-be they subconciously produced, or fully consciously created by me.

In contrast, astral traval, on the astral planes etc-that would call for being out of your body consciously-either OOBE or ...out of your head! but you know what I mean-I'm not saying "you are outta yer head" but do you know what I mean?

Isn't lucid dreaming more restrictive than OOBE experiences which can include the astral plane-but aren't restricted to it. I think we are restricted to our bodies in our dreams aren't we? isn't that the difference of lucid dreaming and OOBE and Astral travel-OOBE are spiritually traveling on another plane, but not in the dreamscape where lucid dreaming is still confined so to speak. It seems though we could use Astral projection to put ourselves in other places and in other peoples dreams perhaps...but can we access astral travel from a lucid dream? I don't know-is there a door there? I'd like to find out...but still lucid dreaming in itself couldn't land you in the present current realm of London or NY, you know?

Originally posted by mytym
As far as what you can do, I now believe it is limited only by your imagination as to what you can do in a lucid dream and where you can go and what dimensions you can experience. I believe APing, OOBE psionic abilities and everything else you can think of can be accessed through lucid dreaming.

OK, well that answers my questions concerning that then...I can see OOBE etc being accessed through lucid dreaming, but I can't see how (unless accessing something else) lucid dreaming could go any further than...lucid "dreaming" and I agree it's limited only by imagination-but requires alot of effort at times!

...as does finding the other doors within lucid dreaming...I've not yet...but I'm willing to try and look for the doors!

Thanks Mytym

I don't know if every lucid dream is some big subconcious phenomenon. I've been knocked into lucid dreaming because the phone rang in my house and simply caused me to be half awake in the middle of dream mode.
Nothing special about that.

However I have had lucid dreams of people who are deceased and I do believe that they were some form of telepathic communication between me and that particular spirit.

Are you sure there is even a difference between some lucid dreams and having an OOBE? As far as I've heard, we have OOBE's every night but aren't awake during it to realize whats going on. So it would be possible that some things that we mistake as being lucid dreams are really OOBE's and vice versa.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
I don't know if every lucid dream is some big subconcious phenomenon. I've been knocked into lucid dreaming because the phone rang in my house and simply caused me to be half awake in the middle of dream mode.
Nothing special about that.

nope-nothing special 'bout that indeed!

I don't know if I'd even try calling that/comparing that with lucid dreaming anyway, more like just being half conscious and half asleep.

The difference being in a lucid dream, you are fully "conscious" as in aware you are dreaming and have mental conrtol-but in the dreamscape-or in maybe you may be fully conscious, but only within the subconscious...

either way, you do not physically hear nor are you aware of the physical world around your sleeping body. You don't see or hear what is going on around you in your room, house etc. for example.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
However I have had lucid dreams of people who are deceased and I do believe that they were some form of telepathic communication between me and that particular spirit.

when you say you have had lucid dreams with these spirits, are you saying you had dreamed of them and awoke to remember them..or that in the dream you were aware of the fact you were dreaming, in a dreamscape, and that they were part of it, present there...and if so, was it because you placed them there, or because they were part of a dream from which you had been passively dreaming before become lucid?

Did you speak to them-and they with you? And if so, did you wake up remembering what transpired in your dream, or did you wake up remembering the dialogue you had initiated knowing you were lucidly dreaming and taking advantage of that fact to some end in the conversations? nd what did you learn?

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
Are you sure there is even a difference between some lucid dreams and having an OOBE?

one very distinct difference for me, having experienced both many times, is the fact in my OOBE I am free to roam my actual physical environment outside of my body. All rooms of my home etc...and many people go outside their homes, and many go up in the sky, and many cross over to other planes like the astral plane etc;

In a lucid dream-I am in a dreamscape-that is not to say I haven't somehow passively left my body to be there I understand your reasoning and I wont discount that as a possibility, but here is why I doubt it highly:

Dreaming seems to have me securely connected to my body-thus I can talk in my sleep with my physical body, sleep walk, reach out etc...

just try "reaching" out when in OOBE! that always sucked me right back into my body involuntarily!

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
As far as I've heard, we have OOBE's every night but aren't awake during it to realize whats going on. So it would be possible that some things that we mistake as being lucid dreams are really OOBE's and vice versa.

I absolutely believe we have unconscious OOBE...I know my lucid-or perhaps I should say conscious ones so as not to combine terms and confuse you- as a youngster were unintentional at first, though conscious,
(I'd find myself consciously leaving my body and just go with it-it was tons of fun-especially spying on people. ) so I think unconscious unintentional ones are definately a reality.

I think maybe thats the knee-jerk physical jumping we do when we feel we are "falling" in our dreams...we are physically falling back into our bodies-and it wakes us up. I think that happens when we fall asleep too fast, are physically and/or mentally exhausted and the seperation of body and spirit happens too fast, or before we are quite completely asleep, and we have a physical reaction to it-sucking our spirits right back in and physically waking us at the same time-maybe it's a failsafe-to make sure we are completely asleep before the seperation.

I feel if there are unconscious, (or subconscious) dreaming, and lucid dreaming, then likewise, why not unconscious/subconscious OOBE's as well as the intentional lucid (but not to be confused with lucid dreaming) OOBE's.... however , no I don't think in any way that makes them interchanagble experiences at all.

I am interested in how lucid dreaming can lead to OOBE or vice versa though...like can you OOBE to another persons dreamscape, etc...what do you think about that?

Yes, Astroreality does seem to roll off the tongue a little better. Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I have not yet experienced Astreality yet, I am only attempting to experience it, thus cannot tell you for sure if it can be done through lucid dreaming or not. However, in my opinion, based on everything that I have read in this forum it seems a certainty that it can be done. From my understanding lucid dreaming and Astral Projection only differ by the volume of subjective matter you are interacting with.

It is my beleif that our consciousness exists everywhere in every dimension/realm constantly. Our physical body is just one aspect of this which appears to be bound by the 3-dimensional physical world. Thus with the right state of mind there is no reason why one can't experience reality in the Astral Plane via lucid dreams. In fact there's no reason why one even needs to be dreaming in the first place. I'm sure it's possible while your wide awake walking down the street. The reason I have taken this approach is because lucid dreaming has always come naturally to me whereas meditation I am much less adept at. In regards to converting a lucid dream into AP I just tried to phase to my bedroom because I realise I must be sleeping if I'm dreaming and from there try and phase to my destination. As I mentioned earlier I have had limited success to date.

In regards to nightmares and negative spirits, as most of the time I don't control the dream due to the effort required, all the normal things that you would expect to happen in dreams still happen it's just that I have unlimited abilities. If I was controlling the dream then obviously I wouldn't include any negative spirits or nightmare aspects.

Only once have I noticed that other people in my dream have been affected once it became lucid. This only happened a week or so ago when as everything froze the instant I realised I was dreaming as if it was a movie and someone hit the paue button. I noticed at that point I was also physically awake and could choose to open my eyes and the dream would end, or remain in the dream which at that point was a crystal clear still picture. It was a little eerie actually.

I understand that you're saying with the AP-Lucid dream distinction and you may very well be right, but personally I think that you can travel back and forth between the two quite easily.

When I said that it is only limited by your imagination I wasn't just referring to lucid dreaming, I meant in any capacity including the physical world. Once again, I am no expert on what I have mentioned here as all I have really experienced is lucid dreams. I haven't even had an OOBE! These are just my thoughts on the subject.

and interesting thoughts they are mytym! Thanks.

I think I'm inclined to agree too...that being as we are conscious beings, and our bodies and THIS particular physical world only one reality, that it doesn't mean there aren't many realities to explore and means of getting to them. INteresting.

I mean how can we really know for sure what our cappablities are until we actually experience it for ourselves. Even someone elses experiences may not dictate acurrately what is, and is not, possible in these realms for everyone.

As for your dream on "pause"-I haven't had the freeze frame effect, but I have had where people just completely froze as if I had to tell them everything to do...and then once-and this was even freakier...I had one dream where as soon as I become lucid, not only did everything stop and people became as if they were souless androids-but they all turned their back on me and WALKED AWAY

and the only thought was "I don't need them anyway" and they knew this-that they no longer served purpose in my dream and so walked away as there way of disappearing.

and I do hear you about being lucid and have unlmited abilities (Flying etc) but letting the dream create it's own theme, characters etc as it is too exhuasteing to control it all-or for long...

can you imagine the energy it takes for God to orchastrate real life in total here for us as a planet and all speicies of life on it!

But it's odd when my deams are like movies-good and evil themes and within a dark movie/game like atmosphere....but fun nonethelss to kick some ass in those scenereos especially when I can fly! hehehe juvenile, yes- but entirely fun nonetheless!!

but I'd like to move on to OOBE and entering OTHER peoples dreams, and meeting people consciously on other planes etc. Funny how peple who've never experienced such can't fathom any of it sometimes. Or only have their passive dreams to compare it with. I'm grateful for it and excited about the possibilities.

I wish I'd not stopped OOBE when I was younger and had instead perfected it-ah well, notthing wrong with trying now!

[edit on 19-1-2006 by think2much]

Originally posted by think2much


when you say you have had lucid dreams with these spirits, are you saying you had dreamed of them and awoke to remember them..or that in the dream you were aware of the fact you were dreaming, in a dreamscape, and that they were part of it, present there...and if so, was it because you placed them there, or because they were part of a dream from which you had been passively dreaming before become lucid?

Did you speak to them-and they with you? And if so, did you wake up remembering what transpired in your dream, or did you wake up remembering the dialogue you had initiated knowing you were lucidly dreaming and taking advantage of that fact to some end in the conversations? nd what did you learn?

In the dreams with the spirits, I was in the dream aware of them dreaming and I don't think I put them there. The first one was the night my Grandmother died, in the dream she was telling me goodbye and to be a good girl, typical stuff a Grandma would say to their Grandchild when saying goodbye. I was completly lucid and just observed what she was saying, nodding and saying ok.

The second one was more strange. I was about 16 and one of my boyfriends friends was murdered and for some reason, even though I never knew him well, he kept appearing in my dreams, but not as an active part of the dream. It would always be like I would look over and see him staring at me from a window or a crowd. The lucid dream I had with him in it, he didnt speak to me at all, we were both floating in the air and we connected by joining hands and just spinned around while flying. I was completly concious and aware I was dreaming, it was freaky.

In the first thing I was talking about where the phone rang and knocked me into a lucid dream. I mean that the phone ringing was just enough to wake me up to realize I was dreaming but not enough for me to wake up completly. So for a minute or two I was still asleep dreaming, I was just fully concious but still dreaming. Until I forced myself to wake up completly.


I just think that possibly if you realize your concious while dreaming you could possibly then end the dream and just step outside of your body? I dont know if its possible or not, just an idea.

and a good idea...I'd be open to try it.

Looking at my hands to confirm dreaming, or become fully awake at the thought as much as the action, as well as jumping and flying being part of becoming aware in your dream etc has worked for me, quite soon after it was suggested...maybe it will now be as easy to experience OOBE when lucid dreaming by asumming it is as simple as realizing I'm dreaming and thus I can then initiate leaving my body...wow...I can't wait to try that

I wonder if there is a trigger I could use for initiating OOBE from lucid dream...like if I create a doorway or something...hmmmm

I really want to interact with others in lucid dreams...in my dreamscape or theirs or if it is a door to another realm/plane etc outside of dreamscapees...

That is really a nice dream about your grandmother...

and a little freaky about the boyfriends friend indeed

I do know what you mean about something waking you just enough to become conscious, but still dreaming and falling back asleep or making yourself awake fully...but for some reason you know how the *feeling* is different? I think maybe because you are too physically close to be awake/aware of the world around you at the point as oppsode to being out hard, and engulfed in your dreams etc...like maybe it is a matter of OOBE...lucid dreaming...

maybe we ARE OOBE in lucid dreams and in a dreamscape...and in contrast when awoken, or nearly physically awake, you care dreaming lucidly, but within your body then and not in a seperate place of reality-you know?

I find my views and understanding even of what I have experienced and thought evolving the more I thinbk about things, experiences and talk to others about it...

thanks for your imput.



[edit on 19-1-2006 by think2much]

had a few lucid dreams.

One was I woke up and with my eyes still closed saw my aura at a distance of about 25 feet. It was spiral spring like things all the colors of the rainbow going in all different directions, appearing and disappearing, on the surface of an orb that was at about 25 feet from me. Lasted about 20 seconds.

HS

Oh unholy hell, that reminds me of a terrible lucid nightmare I had when I was about 16!! I can't believe I'd nearly forgotten about it and realize it makes more sense to me-well sort of-now!

I hadn't known what lucid dreaming was at that time so I could make no sense of any of it any more than I could make sense of how I could have all my OOBE's as a younger child.

It was all so weird, and though I become fully lucid, it was only for a fraction of the end of the "dream"....actually the dream vanished entirely when I became both fearful and lucid, however I didn't awake physically, only mentally-and at the time, not knowing ANYTHING about lucid dreaming I had no idea I had any creative control so to speak and felt trapped in my "dream"- lucid but unable to wake.

I can not recall what the original dream had been about, or if it had been unrealistic or scarey, but I felt a nightmarish quality about the atmosphere I found myself in... a dark and HEAVY atmosphere, and I felt sudden fear.

There was the feeling of "someone" or "something" going to "get" me and I realized I was "dreaming" but try as I might I couldn't wake up and no "dream" was taking place.

What/who was going to "get" me wasn't identifiable either, it just felt like pure evil and it wasn't personafied by anyone or animated by anything, beyond the dark swirling aura it created everywhere in this "dream"

...and I use that term "dream" loosely here, because being as I was lucid, and having no real dream to speak of, the only "dream" part of it was that my body was sleeping- I was fully lucidly aware of the state I was in, but not of my real body.

There was no type of theme when I became fully lucid, beyond the nightmarish quality of the atmosphere, it was void of all else really.

It was just like I was standing, surrounded by swirling darkness, but at a distance...like I was standing firmly on a dark square foundation, and couldn't move, and some distance away, there was dark swirling nothingness all around me on all sides and above me and everything was dark-black, brown, gray-swirling

Aware I was "dreamiing"... or at least aware my consciousness was seperate from my sleeping body, and feeling all that evil, all I wanted to do was wake and escape it.

It's the swirling darkness that I remember so clearly now, when you spoke of your beautiful swirling aura HS...

Anyway, as I started to became more fully lucid and and more physically aware too, aware of my sleeping physical body, I suddenly felt that heavy atmosphere of my dream settling physically upon me-my body.

I felt as though I couldn't breathe, like someone was sitting on my chest, and sucking the breath from my lungs like I giant involuntray exhale...but I still couldn't wake!

I tried to call out (Yes, I was 16 and calling for my Mommy-get over it) but I could not scream-not even in my dream could I scream, and not physically either.

Finally with MUCH effort and concentration I became more aware of my body and felt myself leaving the dream-like state I was in, and becoming more fully aware of my physical surroundings.

But as I did this, my fear was not disapating but increasing. As I began to be fully aware of my body and physical surroundings in my room, I was equally aware of the same evil presence dominating the space of my physical world as it had in the atmosphere of my dream-like world. I couldn't move physically, possibly paralyzed with fear, though I was fully awake now.

I could not only feel the evil atmosphere now in the physical world of my room, but I could feel it moving closer and closer to my bed and the heaviness on my chest increased as it did. I can remember I couldn't move, and that I was afraid to open my eyes-it felt so close at that point...too close...as if it were staring me in the face so to speak...though as I said it had no form in my dream to be staring at me with.

But finally, when my eyes flew open I saw a dark form near my bed. Not close enough to physically touch me, as it seemed to be recoiling from me opening my eyes, however I felt touched by it still. It was a mass of swirling like darkness that became taller, seemingly like -ok, don't laugh-but like you'd imagine the grim reaper or something. Like an over-sized darkly cloaked evil being. And that was the impression I got from it-like it's intention was to take my life...or take something from me.

Now since it had no shape in my "dream"... is that because it was in my room first...my physical world first before my dream? When I sensed it with my body and brain first, did I then transfer it to my sleeping mind-which disturbed my sleep enough to cause me to become lucid and aware of the evil presence in my room?

Or did I somehow by becoming lucid about this evil in my dream, then give it route to my physical world as I became more awake and lucid about my physical surroundings...did I bring it out from my dreams?

....and in thus doing, did I then assign shape to it, so that my brain could more easily process the evil into something/someone specific to fear physically instead of an ambigously evil presence that was hard to indentifiably comprehend?

The evil did feel stronger, darker, more intense all around as I became more physically "awake" too....but I don't know if it's because that is where it originated, and because as I had more senses to perceive it with as I awoke, I was then perceiving it more fully...

Or because I brought it from my dream with me as I became conscious and it grew stronger by the transistion into a stronger physical realm. Did it have no form in my dream because it had no physical experience, or means, and thus when in the physical world, it could then take physical shape?

I did feel at that point that it would reach out and choke me. I already felt I couldn't breath, and my body felt frozen-partially paralyzed...but I felt as if I could scream now, or not scream like "eek" but more like yell...call out for someone, and though I was irrationally afraid to do so momentarily, fealing almost like it would antagonize the evil...or that I'd show my fear and weakness and thus verfiy my vulnerablity to it, still suddenly I did call out anyway.

I called my mother and the form disapperared. The heaviness pressing on my chest was gone, my heart raced, I could move, and I was breathing hard, and with much relief, but with residual fear as well...it still felt as though there was evil in the corner of my room...

...just a small dark swirling ball of darkness in the bottom corner of my room across from me

damn HS...I sure hope like hell that wasn't my aura!

But it was your description of what you experienced that made me instantly remember that-all of it-the entire experience. I would occassionally remember it and think about it, but didn't ponder it too much because I really didn't know what to make of it or how to process it-but now though I'm not MUCH closer to understanding it, I do have some new means in which to process it thorugh my experience with lucid dreaming now etc. and all of this talk of what are the possibilities going from one state to another etc...

And yes, my mother answered and I asked for a drink of water! she was like huh? Get it yourself! and I was like ...I'm so sleepy ...please...and ultimately, me being the last child living at home, the youngest of 5 kids, and by far the wildest and most rebellious, she was kind of happy to to oblige me...or at least willing to...I think happy just to feel needed.

I did not go back to sleep that night-I truly felt as though my life-or sanity- had somehow been at real risk at one point. Bizarre.

[edit on 20-1-2006 by think2much]

Glad you can laugh about such a bad dream think2much, you mustbe in your thirties now, maybe 36?

When I wrote my post about the aura dream, I had this thought " something about this dream is going to remind think2 much of something",
I'm 80 % sure this was the subject, I posted 3 other places. Next time I get those feelings I'll write so.

I'm glad you mentioned the paralysis thing, I have been thinking about it on and off all day. My opinion is now that, because you had this dream at age 16, that peer pressure from your schoolmates caused it with incoming telepathic vibes. The same thing happened to me about 3-4 years ago at age 48 or so when I regressed myself to age 16 or so. I had paralyzing dreams. The people who came around me then simulated a teenage peer group taking both telepathic and real advantage of me. I knew what was going on and let it happen to add to my data and studies. Someone asked me if I had 'stepladder' written on my back and wondered greatly at the goings on.

The similar dreams that paralyzed were these. I dreamt I was getting hugged by a large spider from behind in a nice cuddling way. When I relaxed in the dream and then woke up, I found myself waking up in the dream. At first I though I was really awake. In fact one time I awoke into a bedroom just like the one I really sleep in. There was one time I realaxed and fell off to sleep many times and awoke each time still alying with a large spider around me. One time, my mind left my body in the dream and saw me and the spider laying on a mattress in a public place like a mall inside patio.

When I awoke many times, even if I did not dream of the spider(s), I saw
hairy legs around me and they moved slightly sometimes. Big hairy legs
Spider legs. Over my shoulders, around my waist, under my arms. I was unable to move at first and really had to figure out that moving made these sights disappear. One time in a dream, I had the sense to notice when a big spider was hugging me, and I snarled like a wolf and woke up, I haven't been bothered by big spiders since then. Another time I dreamt I scared two large spiders in a dream, and they went running off to the west through the scenery there making some sort of squealing sound.

Oh, it might be worth reading the post I just put on 'negative incoming telepathy, a post I started, I mention some indepth stuff about dreams and alos you, think2much.

Thanks for reminding me about this paralyzing situation, and I do really believe it is caused by negative incoming telepathic vibes from people who pressure you to do what they want. So I reminded you of something that reminded me of something, what's next?

Much obliged
HS

HS

Originally posted by HS
Glad you can laugh about such a bad dream think2much, you mustbe in your thirties now, maybe 36?

wow...funny you'd guess 36...you're only off by 2 years (just turned 38 ) ...but here's what is funny...is I was off on my age being 16 when I had that dream...when I was 16 I left home to live with a friend's family for almost a year...so I was thinking today how I must have been off by about 2 years and I was really about 18 by then as I'd moved back in with my mother and was living there from 17-19 and that dream was about right in the middle of that time.

Originally posted by HS
When I wrote my post about the aura dream, I had this thought " something about this dream is going to remind think2 much of something",
I'm 80 % sure this was the subject, I posted 3 other places. Next time I get those feelings I'll write so.

yes, that would be interesting...are you always so psychically intuned and inclined?

Originally posted by HS
I'm glad you mentioned the paralysis thing, I have been thinking about it on and off all day. My opinion is now that, because you had this dream at age 16, that peer pressure from your schoolmates caused it with incoming telepathic vibes.

I've given it some thought...first, I left school at about 16...I didn't go much while living with friend and when I returned home I stayed enrolled in highschool but took my courses at home with a private instructor on a "homebound" basis and graduated that way-never returned to school, never really had school peers-I wasn't interested in that crap...

I had one close friend as spoken of and I had the music scene downtown as my home away from home. I can't say there was alot of peer pressure there either...I mean when I was 15/16 maybe at first...you know...but I soon realized it was a hyppocritical situation to believe to make a statement about not conforming to society meant instead conforming to another dictated acceptable norm of fashion and attitude, and I was pretty secure in who I was by the time I had that dream...although who that was could have inciting some to give me negative telepathic vibes...maybe...if I knew WTH that is/means!

Originally posted by HS
The same thing happened to me about 3-4 years ago at age 48 or so when I regressed myself to age 16 or so.

Regressed yourself? You mean like hypnotically, or just run of the mill second adolescence?

Originally posted by HS
I had paralyzing dreams. The people who came around me then simulated a teenage peer group taking both telepathic and real advantage of me. I knew what was going on and let it happen to add to my data and studies. Someone asked me if I had 'stepladder' written on my back and wondered greatly at the goings on.

real and telepathic advantage...you'll have to explain that to me. I'll tell you straight up...I flew as a kid-had OOBE, and now I have lucid dreams...but I know nothing nada about the paranormal issues/possibilities in life

Originally posted by HS
The similar dreams that paralyzed were these. I dreamt I was getting hugged by a large spider from behind in a nice cuddling way. (snip) One time, my mind left my body in the dream and saw me and the spider laying on a mattress in a public place like a mall inside patio.

Ok, I can't even tell you how disturbing that is to read...especially being as I am arachanaphobic to some degree ::::shiver:::::

Originally posted by HS
Oh, it might be worth reading the post I just put on 'negative incoming telepathy, a post I started, I mention some indepth stuff about dreams and alos you, think2much.

I will check it out...you reminded me of another dream I had...same time in my life...but not lucid dream so maybe I'll go find a better a better place to discuss it with you on your thread.

Originally posted by HS
Thanks for reminding me about this paralyzing situation, and I do really believe it is caused by negative incoming telepathic vibes from people who pressure you to do what they want.

WHOA! Now...that just took on another meaning...my greatest peer pressure group of all at that time...my family. What they did to me in the year to come was beyond pressure...it was outright unconscionable manipulative control that had devastated life long consequence...

are you ready for this HS...they effectively killed me-took my life from me in more ways than one...

Originally posted by HS
So I reminded you of something that reminded me of something, what's next?

that was next...you helped me realize what a premonition that dream/event was... I get chills now realizing what was going on and how it manifested itself as putre evil...and how it/they eefectively took my life...

damn

Thanks HS

WOW

Over the last few days ive been having some really intresting lucid dreams where im flying alongside people who ive never even met before or I find myself saying to them things like 'hey look I can fly, just jump in the air and pretend your swimming breastroke style and you'll be able to fly like me' or... it will be the total opposite and i'll be showing off about how high I can fly and end up almost seeing earth disappear from my vision and freak out.. or sometimes i'll start questioning them to find out who they are, how old they are and where they come from. (which they hate) Ive also been fighting with people in my dreams and have noticed something which Ive never thought about before, when im fighting ive noticed that I always tend to twist there arms as tho im performing a chinese burn on them and its like there bodys are made of elastic. Can anyone relate to that? When I see people in my dreams who ive never even seen before I start to wonder if there other people projecting or if its my mind creating these caracters but I really cant see how your mind can create lots of different caracters at the same time all doing different things. Like last night I was stood there in this town and realised I was dreaming and decided to just sit down and observe everything that was going on around me and I was amazed. People were walking past and going into shops buying things and others in the background walking there dogs etc and buying icecreams... It was so intresting that all this could happen at the same time.

Well, no Stretch Aarmstrongs in my dreams, but lots of flying...but not next to tohers, or showing them how...interesting...

you say people hate to be asked who they are or where they're from...do they answer.? Do they even know?

lucidly watching a dream passively...now thats interesting...I don't think I've actually attempted that, but I usually am quite active in my dream, and when I become lucid I stay active...might have to see what happens passively, but interestingly enough, many of the people become motionless and confused when I become lucid

perhaps you are OOB and actually observing real things (people in and out of stores) or real spirits (flying with them etc) where as when I am lucid I don't leave the plane of my consciousness-you know?

Most of the time when ive asked people who they are etc.. they look at me confused and then start walking away like there on a mission or sometimes they'll start attacking me and my dream will turn into a bit of a nightmare.

The other day for example, I got on a double decker bus and walked upstairs and sat next to this women and I looked her in the eye and said 'excuse me I hope you dont mind me asking but, whats your name?' she looked the other way out the window annoyed, then nudged me off my seat and ran off the bus. Then I turned around and everyone else on the bus was staring at me disgusted and it caused me to wake up.

I think its impossible to tell whether im just having a lucid dream or an OBE without verification of some sort.. which im working on.

The OBEs that I usually have and have only been having over the course of the last 8 months or so.. are where im housebound or roaming about outside my house and they are a totally different experience to a lucid dream. Which leads me to assume that when im having a lucid dream.. it is just that, a lucid dream.

Originally posted by Clarky
Most of the time when ive asked people who they are etc.. they look at me confused and then start walking away like there on a mission or sometimes they'll start attacking me and my dream will turn into a bit of a nightmare.

interesting

Originally posted by Clarky
The OBEs that I usually have and have only been having over the course of the last 8 months or so.. are where im housebound or roaming about outside my house and they are a totally different experience to a lucid dream. Which leads me to assume that when im having a lucid dream.. it is just that, a lucid dream.

Yes that makes perfect sense. The OOBE I had all the time when younger I was housebound as well, and lucid dreams are on a dreamscape-entierly different, and I *feel* entirely different in both scenereos, but I can't help wondering still if one can go from one to the other...

When ive drifted into an OBE from a lucid dream ive done it in this order..

1. Dream
2. Become lucid
3. Woke up half paralised
4. Projected

Has anyone ever just been in a lucid dream and then got rid of all subconcious thoughts, objects etc.. and suddenly been having a full OBE? Ive never really tried this before.

Originally posted by Clarky
When ive drifted into an OBE from a lucid dream ive done it in this order..

1. Dream
2. Become lucid
3. Woke up half paralised
4. Projected

Has anyone ever just been in a lucid dream and then got rid of all subconcious thoughts, objects etc.. and suddenly been having a full OBE? Ive never really tried this before.

Well, not I, but I'd like to. I had tons of OOBE as a youngerster without trying really, and now I have lucid dreams-with or iwthout trying, and I'm trying to learn more about it all so I CAN try to go from one to the other...

but though an OOBE in itself, when floating around the house etc, is clearly NOT "just" a lucid dream...

I am still inclined to think/believe during lucid dreaming we may be OOB...just not knowing it by being in a dreamscape-instead of say our familiar household etc...no frame of reference...though the *feeling* is different in a lucid dream, it could be because of the atmosphere of the dream scape

so OOBE=lucid dream-NO

Lucid dream=OOB= Maybe...just need a way to reference it. and maybe not every time...

but I guess what I really seek for confirmation, or through a door of lucid dreaming, is the OOBE like when I was younger and housebound...where everything is familiar and an easy reference for what I am experiencing, and verifiable if I witness something OOB that I can then later verify as true (As people in another room, who is there, what is done/said etc.)

and from THERE where it's verified I'm OOB I want to go to other planes, AP etc...knowing it's OOBE and not a lucid dream etc.

Make sense?

Yea that makes sense

One thing I might try each time I go to bed from now on is this... Im going to pick a card from a deck and place it somewhere in my room and try and verify it while out of body.. then once I think ive managed this (which I doubt I will because im usualy spinning all over the place or blind) im going to try and turn my OBE into a lucid dream without waking up.

Or.....

The next time I have a lucid dream I might go searching and try asking people if they know what this card is.

Just a thought......