9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

originally posted by: RubyGray
a reply to: waypastvne

The Ingersoll images you are using have a different numbering system from the ones I have, which are prefaced "DSC_04.." and suffixed by other numbers. Where do you find those?

I didn't get to read your last two post. Have you faced the reality that your Penny isn't Penny yet ?

Here's another reality: Your Rumsfeld isn't Rumsfeld.



Try not to spit the dummy next time you post.

a reply to: waypastvne

Ah but I have seen the movies.
Therefore I know that the guy in the shirt and braces, carrying the orange backboard, is Donald Rumsfeld.
He can be followed on his several trips to and fro across the lawn.
Is there a particular reason you imagine that this is not Rumsfeld?

a reply to: RubyGray

You

Scores of eyewitnesses saw the plane flying on the North-of-Citgo flightpath.

YOU simply ignore or attempt to discredit the witnesses, claiming they are lying,

Now Ruby, quote my posts where I stated the north flight path witnesses were lying. Or you just making up crap?

a reply to: RubyGray

You

accusing me of lying,

Where’s that quote of my post or posts where I stated the north flight path witnesses were lying?

I don’t think I have to accuse..... I think it’s documented.

a reply to: RubyGray

You

YOU simply ignore or attempt to discredit the witnesses,

There is no discrediting witnesses. It’s a proven fact witnesses are horribly unreliable unless their accounts are in context with physical evidence. But can be counter by physical evidence.

You said you watched all the videos? Is that false?

And you stated:

He claimed that they were "pushing patients on gurneys". Gurneys are wheeled trolleys, which were not used that morning.

Yet, I found this on a flicker page labeled Ruby Gray


A picture of a gurney at Rumsfeld’s feet. You cannot even get it right from personal archived pictures.

How’s those quotes coming along from the north flight path witnesses that a large passenger jet missed the pentagon and flew off? What damaged the pentagon to leave physical evidence?

Or does their accounts of a large jet hitting the pentagon give their accounts context contrary to your blind and biased mythology?

originally posted by: RubyGray

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: RubyGray

originally posted by: Hulseyreport
According to the official story, the plane did a u-turn around the Pentagon to drop lower? That clearly places the plane on northside least initially. Maybe the northside witnesses did see the plane in the sky, but missed the second approach from the other side? You still see the plane at 10,000 feet if not higher.

I think you may be confusing the appearance of the C-130 with the jet.

The official story says the 757 did a huge 270 degree descending loop, some miles southwest of the Pentagon.

But eyewitness testimony states that the plane flew east across the river, passed the White House etc, then crossed the river again south of the Pentagon, to approach from over the Army Navy Country Club, then turning northeast to fly over the Navy Annex and between the Citgo gas station and Arlington National Cemetery.

The cargo plane flew in from the northwest, came down closer to the Pentagon, then veered off north again, at a much higher altitude than the jet which allegedly hit the Pentagon.

The C-130 appeared about 3 minutes after the impact, according to the video taken from the I-395 by Anthony Tribby which shows it appear, descend, turn and fly away; and the amateur video shot from south of the overhead sign on the bridge, where the Camera Guy and his son comment on it, and Joel Sucherman is filmed looking up in the sky towards it, as he testified.

Report I read, the plane was coming in fast southeast of the White House. The C-130 had not taken off yet. What direction is this to the Navy Annex?

Could you tell me which report this is that you read?
The White House is way northeast of the Navy Annex and the Pentagon, across the Potomac River.

There in 9/11 commission report. The plane was near the White House coming in I am guessing first run at it?

One minute before the Pentagon got hit.
Quote
At 9:36, the FAA's Boston Center called NEADS and related the discovery about the aircraft closing in on Washington, an aircraft that still had not been linked with the missing American 77. The FAA told NEADS: "Latest report, aircraft VFR" -- visual flight rules -- "six miles southeast of the White House -- six southwest, six southwest of the White House, deviating away."

This startling news prompted the mission crew commander at NEADS to take immediate control of the air space to clear a flight path for the Langley fighters. "Okay, we're going to turn it, crank it up. Run them to the White House."

govinfo.library.unt.edu...

a reply to: Hulseyreport

I don't see any problem there apart from a misstatement (southeast) immediately corrected to southwest. Approx 1 minute from impact puts the plane at the point where it completed the descending turn and straightened up aimed at the Pentagon and it is about 6 miles southwest of the White House at that instant going by the DFDR recording.

Last 4 minutes of AAL77 plotted in reference to the Pentagon strike (0,0) - in miles

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: Hulseyreport

I don't see any problem there apart from a misstatement (southeast) immediately corrected to southwest. Approx 1 minute from impact puts the plane at the point where it completed the descending turn and straightened up aimed at the Pentagon and it is about 6 miles southwest of the White House at that instant going by the DFDR recording.

Last 4 minutes of AAL77 plotted in reference to the Pentagon strike (0,0) - in miles

True. I just pointing there was a plane seen six miles southwest of the Pentagon. They said Southeast but then corrected to Southwest.  Where would the plane be then in a placement to the navy annex? 
To be honest all eyewitnesses said they saw a plane near the Navy Annex minute or seconds before the impact.  A plane seen the logical conclusion that plane hit the Pentagon.

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

True. I just pointing there was a plane seen six miles southwest of the Pentagon. They said Southeast but then corrected to Southwest.  Where would the plane be then in a placement to the navy annex? 

The Navy Annex is about 600m south west of the Pentagon which amounts to less than 3 seconds of AA77's flight time. The White House is about 3km (2 miles) north east of the Pentagon so, if around 1 minute from impact puts the plane 6 miles SW of WH, 4 miles SW of Pentagon, about 3.5 miles SW of Navy Annex.

On the plot, the Navy Annex would be really close to the '0" on the X axis (top right)
The 0,0 point on the plot is where data stops 2-3 seconds before actual impact because it's recorded in 4 second blocks and the final block was incomplete.

The 'deviating away' statement could better fit the commencement of the descending turn apart from the '1 minute out' as that would be more like 3 minutes from impact. (AA77 was approx 6 miles SW of WH twice in its approach)

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: [post=24713666]RubyGray[/post

A picture of a gurney at Rumsfeld’s feet. You cannot even get it right from personal archived pictures.

It is pointless trying to explain anything to someone who is determined not to listen, but there are other people here who may be interested in the truth.

If you go to page 215 of the PDF book "THEN CAME THE FIRE", you will find this image from which you keep posting a small section.

You will see a large group of volunteers, firefighters and military personnel standing near the door just south of the heliport tower.

One of those volunteers is DONALD RUMSFELD.
He is in a light blue shirt, partially obscured by the RED BACKBOARD.
Rumsfeld is holding an ORANGE BACKBOARD.
Behind and to his left, a man is holding a YELLOW BACKBOARD.
On his right side, a guy is holding another YELLOW BACKBOARD.

You can see that although they are slightly different, they are all long, narrow boards with handgrips along the edges.
They have printed lines or text running down the centre lengthwise.

In front of Rumsfeld, at the level of his knees to his hips, a fireman is holding up a WHITE BACKBOARD by a side handgrip.
You are looking at the top surface, and it is slightly diagonal.
You can see the handgrips on the lower edge, and the black centre line.

This photo was taken after Rumsfeld had already carried 2 victims on BACKBOARDS, from the Pentagon to the triage site on the lawn next to the ambulance waiting opposite on the highway.

There are 2 independent videos of Rumsfeld carrying the first victim, while he was still wearing his jacket.

He then removed his jacket, and one video also shows him carrying the second victim on an orange backboard, in his light blue shirt and braces. He is seen moving all the way across the lawn, right to the side of the road, where they lay the backboard on the ground.

This second victim is the badly burned black lady, who was mentioned by bodyguard Aubrey Davis in the book "RUMSFELD : AN ANERICAN DISASTER". Davis said that he saw her white legs and was shocked to realise that she was black, with the skin burned off her legs.

After this, the same video shows Rumsfeld in his distinctive braces, running back towards the Pentagon, carrying an orange backboard.

This continuous video then shows numerous segments of Rumsfeld standing here beside this door, holding this same orange backboard vertically.

Several photographs by different photographers, from different angles, also show Rumsfeld here, in his shirt and braces, holding this orange backboard.

Rumsfeld DID NOT "push a gurney" across the lawn.
He DID NOT transport a single patient and then return to his office within 15 minutes of leaving it, as his bodyguard claimed.
He carried at least TWO patients, and after his bodyguard had gone off to retrieve Lloyde England, Rumsfeld remained there beside the Pentagon wall.

When the bodyguard returned, Rumsfeld donned his jacket again, and was photographed returning to his office with Davis and another aide.

Rumsfeld's staff claimed that he was absent until almost 10:30 a.m., about 50 minutes, far longer than the 15 minutes claimed by his bodyguard.

Why do you so desperately need this NOT to be Rumsfeld?

a reply to: RubyGray

You said no gurneys were used that morning. Is that false?

a reply to: RubyGray

You

Why do you so desperately need this NOT to be Rumsfeld?

False argument by you.

I never said that was or wasn’t Rumsfeld. If I did provide that quote. Quote where I ever said I need that to not be Rumsfeld. You have your people crossed.


Your the one that needed for “no gurneys used that morning.”

And yet. Right on the flicker page of a Ruby Gray is a picture with an arrow labeled at a person you cannot see there face as being Rumsfeld with a gurney at his feet.




Ruby, you just look confused and disingenuous. And sad you cannot come to terms CIT failed because:
One, witness accounts of a large jet hitting the pentagon.
Two, you cannot quote a single north flight path person the jet maneuvered to miss the pentagon resulting in it flying off.
Three, no physical evidence of a north flight path with witnesses attesting to the jet hitting crap along its flight path.
Four, you have no credible explanation what damaged the pentagon.

originally posted by: RubyGray

Why do you so desperately need this NOT to be Rumsfeld?

Why do you so desperately need this to be Penny?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

You said no gurneys were used that morning. Is that false?

HOW MANY TIMES!!!!!!!

I have already said that the ambulances' gurneys were used on the road. There are photos and video of this.
Obviously wheeled trolleys cannot be pushed across guardrails.
Gurneys were NOT USED ONTHE NORTH LAWN, where Donald Rumsfeld was videoed carrying backboards.
There is NO EVIDENCE OF GURNEYS ON THE NORTHERN LAWN WHERE RUMSFELD WAS.

Rumsfeld's bodyguard Aubrey Davis LIED about several things, as quoted in Andrew Cockburn's book, "RUMSFELD: AN AMERICAN DISASTER", chapter 1.

He lied about Rumsfeld "pushing gurneys" across the lawn.
He lied about the number of times Rumsfeld carried victims across the lawn.
He lied about the amount of time that Rumsfeld was AWOL from his office.
He lied about the reason they were out there on the lawn at all.

The evidence of the magnitude, significance and purpose of Aubrey Davis' lies is right there on photos and videos.

a reply to: waypastvne

Yes, Thank you for posting this other high resolution photo of Donald Rumsfeld standing beside the Pentagon, holding his orange backboard.

a reply to: RubyGray

You

Gurneys were NOT USED ONTHE NORTH LAWN, where Donald Rumsfeld was videoed carrying backboards.

Ruby. From the flicker page attributed to ruby gray, what is that white thing at the feet of the person with a big arrow over his head.

It’s a gurney ruby. Right at the feet of the person labeled Rumsfeld is a gurney.


You

He lied about Rumsfeld "pushing gurneys" across the lawn.

Please provide the actual quote and cite a source to show your account is credible. But why menace words when there is a picture that labels an individual, who’s face you cannot see, as Rumsfeld with a gurney right at his feet.

a reply to: RubyGray

What does your manufactured mythology concerning gurneys have to do with witnesses attesting to a large passenger jet hitting the pentagon, and the actual pentagon damage caused by being hit by a large passenger jet?

originally posted by: RubyGray
a reply to: waypastvne

Yes, Thank you for posting this other high resolution photo of Donald Rumsfeld standing beside the Pentagon, holding his orange backboard.

Your welcome. Did you notice the epaulet.

a reply to: waypastvne

Are you talking about that part of the firey's uniform, across the top of Donald Rumsfeld's left shoulder?