9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

originally posted by: samkent
...
Hell the president can't get a BJ in the oval office without congress finding out. And that only involved 2 people.

Loose lips sink ships?

I know this was forever ago but that is a good point. I do wonder at two things: if the pole was hit so hard that it bent and then went over after succumbing to the impact, what would have happened to the part of the plane that dished out this punishment. I would think a decent chunk of plane debris would have been found that was separate from the building impact scene. Maybe there was, and if so someone should confirm that to give more credence to this scenario. The second thing is that even if there was no noticeable damage to the hood of the can from the initial impact of the pole, 2 men would probably find it an unnecessary challenge to lift the rather heavy pole straight up and cautiously keep it raised enough to avoid further scratching as opposed to maybe getting it just high enough to roll it off to the ground.
Thoughts?
a reply to: Zaphod58

originally posted by: Mister_Narc
Ok. I circled the trailer in the background in red also represented by the yellow mark with the red circle in the overhead shot. (Which I'd bet 5 bucks that is the trailer they used to bring in this taxi with the shattered windshield). Also note the sheriff/police officer circled in blue, also represented by the blue dot. Again, it is strange that he is loitering around back there but whatever. I hope this gives you the perspective you need to see that the cab and pole were moved. I am sure I am off a little, but this is pretty accurate for a quick little rendering.

external image

Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Aldo,
I just found this post of yours from 2006, many months before you interviewed Lloyde England.

Your comment about the trailer on the northwest cloverleaf in the background of Lloyde's cab, being the very one on which they transported the cab into the staged scene on the bridge, is just about the truest statement you ever made on this subject.

Yes!!! The cab was moved!!!
But it was moved from where the pole first impacted it, down to this position on the bridge, where it stayed immobile for the next few hours until it was towed away.

Your claim that photos suggest its position on the bridge had been altered, is the result of optical illusion and unfamiliarity with the design of the stone walls on both sides of the bridge. Each straight section of wall is flanked at both ends by another wall which curves back away from the road considerably, as can be verified in videos taken there on 9/11, from Google Earth images, and no doubt you yourself realised this when you travelled there.

But YES, that orange triple axle low-loader car transport trailer is a gargantuan clue to how the Bridge-cab-pole scene was staged.
Had you followed up on this angle, you and Craig would have actually blundered onto the whole truth, 13 years ago already.

Please revisit Lytetrip's video filmed in the VDOT storage yard, where Craig does a squat lift on the base of a full length light pole. Follow that pole upwards, and scrutinise the orange trailer parked just beyond the poles ... And you will see that this style and colour of VDOT-issue trailer is a dead ringer for the orange trailer in the background of Jason Ingersoll's DSC_0420.

Expand this high-resolution photo, and you will even see the tyre marks showing where the tow truck did a U-turn off the grass after unhitching the trailer, just minutes before this photo was taken at 9:56 a.m.

I have analysed this trailer in depth on my thread at Letsrollforums.com, where you can read my conclusions I think on pages 10 and 11 of "LLOYDE ENGLAND VINDICATED WITH NEW EVIDENCE ON PHOTOS AND VIDEOS".

There is still much more evidence to be posted, including video footage of Donald Rumsfeld the do-gooder "first responder" supervising (a) the WHITE VAN departing the cemetery wall site and driving on down the road to the bridge at 9:42 a.m., and (b), the cab being moved from its original position beside the cemetery wall at 9:43 a.m., by a black tow truck, on this very same orange trailer that you have identified, disguised by a black tarp.

Rumsfeld's bodyguard, Pentagon police officer AUBREY DAVIS, manages this operation from beside the Triage site, on his handheld radio. A couple of minutes after the tow truck left the cemetery site and unloaded Lloyde's cab on top of the bridge, the tow truck was captured on video, towing the unladen, uncovered orange trailer, driving northbound on the southbound lanes, exiting the bridge against the traffic direction via the northwest cloverleaf on-ramp. Hence its presence parked behind the guardrail on the cloverleaf, sheltered from view of motorists on Route 27 by that convenient big mound of soil and rubble.

Immediately after this, Rumsfeld despatched his own bodyguard Aubrey Davis (WHAT!!!!! YES!!!!!) to collect Lloyde England in the brown Jeep seen on the Ingersoll photos, and deposit him close to the cab on the bridge for the official photo opp.

Aubrey Davis is the big black minder in the bridge photos. His role was to babysit Lloyde to ensure that he didn't inconveniently cause a ruckus if he regained his composure and realised his cab had been surreptitiously moved 350 yards down the road from where the 12 foot x 4 inch pole speared the windshield ... after which Lloyde was knocked to the ground and "run off from" the cab by Detective Don Fortunato, who just happened to turn up beside Lloyde's cab in both locations.

Fortunato is the guy in the blue shirt in Ingersoll's photos, whose silver sedan is parked in the HOV lane across the barrier ... both in Ingersoll's and many other photos ... AND also in a video of the cemetery site which shows Lloyde's cab, the black tow truck waiting behind it, Steve Riskus' red sedan around the curve, the WHITE VAN parked a few yards ahead of the cab, the SILENT STRANGER standing in front of the cab bumper, the POLE still through the windshield ... at 9:42 a.m.

Lloyde found himself having to get up off the ground, "wondering what just happened," not just once but twice within these first 6 minutes. He appeared wandering about in the HOV lanes north of the bridge in a video shot from on top of the bridge at 9:43 a.m., and also from 9:45 a.m. in Ingersoll's long-distance shots of the bridge. Somebody clearly transported Lloyde from the cemetery site, several hundred yards south, to get him out of the way while his cab was switched for the DECOY CAPITOL CAB which was parked on the bridge until 9:44 a.m.

YES, there was ALSO a DECOY CAB, the source of much confusion in your interviews of other witnesses. People saw "A CAB" in both locations. For instance, Father Stephen McGraw saw Lloyde's cab at the cemetery wall: but Penny Elgas initially saw the DECOY CAB from her location on the bridge.

Rather than casting aspersions on Lloyde's testimony Aldo, you would have spent your time much more profitably, had you pondered the possibility of the influence of tazers and mind-altering substances administered to Lloyde by operatives at the cemetery site ... notably the SILENT STRANGER in the White Ford Econoline Van (which was followed on various videos and photos from its appearance north of the Columbia Pike exit sign at 9:41 a.m. to its presence on the bridge for several minutes, to its departure after 9:50 a.m. - and the attending police officer. Both of these were operatives, explaining why the SILENT STRANGER "helped" Lloyde remove the pole, then high-tailed it out of there while Lloyde was laying on his back beneath the fallen pole - and why the detective did not offer any help to Lloyde, but was in such a rush to run Lloyde off so the tow truck could do its thang.

Aldo, Lloyde England's story is solid gold, but it is certainly more weird and wonderful than even you and Craig ever imagined.

All this information has been verified from numerous videos and photos newly analysed within the past few months.

Do visit my thread "LLOYDE ENGLAND VINDICATED" as referenced above, for the detailed proofs.

Time to acknowledge and rescind many early errors and false assumptions, and move this investigation forward at last.

a reply to: RubyGray

or save time and read this...

Bringing Closure to the 9/11 Pentagon Debate
By John D. Wyndham | Oct 7, 2016 | Editor's Picks, Essays, Science, US | 275

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

Downed Light Poles: Many witnesses saw the plane hit light poles. In all, five light poles were torn from their bases and broken into pieces. Pole pieces had considerable curvature as if hit by a blunt force at high speed, such as the moving wing of a plane. One pole piece pierced the windshield of a taxi driven by Lloyde England. The back seat of the taxi was pierced indicating how the pole piece was supported at that end and stuck out through the windshield. The separation and positions of the downed light poles indicate a plane wingspan of more than 100 feet, but less than 130 feet. The wingspan of a Boeing 757 is 124 feet 10 inches.

The truth movement was never concerned with “evidence”. Just pushing false narratives. The truth movement is it’s own worst enemy.

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

Conclusion
Despite the clear evidence and its analysis using the scientific method of large plane impact, a substantial portion of the 9/11 truth movement, including accepted leaders and those involved in major organizations, continues to publicly endorse, adhere to, or promulgate talks, writings and films on false Pentagon hypotheses. Some simply offer criticisms and reject or ignore evidence that would bring closure to the argument. There is clear evidence by way of disintegrating truth groups that these endorsements and communications are injurious to the movement.

a reply to: RubyGray

Why ignore the actual entrance hole into the pentagon.....

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

The Impact Hole and Façade Damage:

Many claims have been made that the impact hole was too small for a plane the size of a Boeing 757 to have entered the building. None of these claims have merit. The fuselage of a Boeing 757 is 12.33 feet wide and 13.5 feet high and the corresponding hole was about 18 feet wide. Early photographs were obscured by spray from fire hoses and hid a long gash of about 96 feet in the first floor façade. There were many missing outer support columns. Thus the plane’s fuselage, both engines, and the heavier, inner parts of the wings had sufficient room to penetrate the building.

According to witnesses and the FDR data, the plane had rolled about 5 degrees counterclockwise when it hit the wall. Façade markings, such as a long gash made by a wing, confirm these observations. Critics frequently point to the absence of a clear vertical gash that they contend should have been made by the vertical portion of the tail. There are, as shown by Jim Hoffman, markings in the area where the tail might have hit. It is possible that the tail was blown off and fragmented, and did not reach the wall intact. One witness described seeing the fuel explosion while the tail was still visible. Many witnesses saw the tail, and this criticism cannot overturn the other evidence of plane approach and impact.

a reply to: neutronflux

Why copy and paste old material that has nothing to do with the content of my post?

John Wyndham is just one of a group of disingenuous fakers who only pay lip service to "respecting" 9/11 Pentagon victim and eye witness, Lloyde England. They claim that England and his taxi are genuine evidence and truthful witnesses to the 757 jet which hit a corridor of 5 light poles on its Flight path into the pentagon, while simultaneously rejecting England's own adamant statements that his cab was hit by a pole while he was driving 400 yards further north of the bridge, and that the cab came to rest beside the concrete retaining wall below the cemetery. This claim is brushed off as the confused inaccurate memory of an old man.

However, numerous videos have now been analysed proving every word of Lloyde England's own testimony to be true.

These independent videos, taken from various vantage points and covering the first 10 minutes after the impact, prove that Lloyde England's cab was indeed stationary beside the cemetery wall at 9:42 a.m., and that a pole did impale its windscreen. Several videos show the cab being relocated from cemetery to bridge, and the presence of a DECOY CAB on the bridge until almost 9:44 a.m., when England's damaged cab was substituted for it.

Clearly it cannot have been any of the 5 downed light poles then, which did this damage. As Lloyde several times physically demonstrated, and as he drew on a sketch, the pole extended from the back seat to the level of the front bumper. This is a distance of about 12 feet, which also tallies with the video images of the cab with pole still through the windscreen.

Lloyde clearly pointed out that the 4 inch diameter hole at the base of the windscreen was the entry point of the pole. The two distinct circular imprints of a perfectly round, 4 inch diameter tube on the back seat, also confirm the dimensions of this pole. The pole which hit the cab was therefore 12 feet x 4 inches, and it hit the cab when it was about 100 feet north of the Columbia Pike exit sign, as Lloyde stated.

The second photograph taken by Steve Riskus, from this very spot, shows shattered glass and skid marks on this piece of the highway.

The inescapable conclusion is that no plane hit the pole which speared the cab, although as Lloyde said the plane came into view (from behind the cemetery bank) and flew across the top of him, the plane did definitely fly on the North side Flight path so ridiculed by false truthers.

This was a deviously pre-planned and elaborately executed stage production. The fact that Rumsfeld and his cohorts appeared with unseemly haste on site to monitor the action, is solid evidence of foreknowledge and complicity.

Yes, you could "save time" by accepting the optical illusion served to you on a platter, or you could invest some of your precious time, reading my LetsRollForums.com thread where the proofs that a military black operation was executed at the Pentagon on 9/11, are revealed from video footage taken on the spot beginning at 1 minute 35 seconds post impact.

For many years, truthers have bewailed the FBI censorship of the imagery taken of this event, but some videos have been released which prove that the plane is not what downed 5 light poles, and this fact alone absolutely demolishes the Official Fairy Tale.

a reply to: RubyGray

Then what made the entrance hole into the pentagon. How did the passengers and terrorist’s DNA get to the pentagon.

You have to start with what caused the damage at the pentagon, what murdered the passengers, and how their remains ended up at the pentagon.

If you cannot explain what caused the damage at the pentagon, you don’t have crap. If you cannot explain what happen to the passengers of flight 77, you don’t have crap.

a reply to: RubyGray

Numerous witnesses attest to a large passenger jet hitting the pentagon. Even if you disregard the light poles, you still have the damage to the annex antenna, trees and shrubs, where the the left engine hit the low concrete wall, the damage to the construction trailers and equipment, and where the left wing hit before flight 77 made the entrance hole into the pentagon. The damage at the pentagon is consistent with a large jet impact like what a 757 would cause. Not consistent with planted explosives, not consistent with a missile, and not consistent with a smaller jet.

a reply to: RubyGray

Anybody can take one small aspect of a large event and claim "It doesn't look right!"
But that doesn't make the whole thing a conspiracy.
Speeding doesn't mean DUI.
Sex doesn't mean rape.

People looking at pictures on the internet are the worst to base a proof on.

a reply to: neutronflux

NO, I do not have to start with what made the hole at the Pentagon.

Lloyde England's testimony is that the plane flew across him when he was north of the heliport.
He was nowhere near the bridge when the pole speared his windshield.
This has now been proven by several videos of the cab with pole in it beside the cemetery wall; the cab being transported to the bridge site; and the swapping of Lloyde's cab with a DECOY CAB which was on the bridge for the first 6 or 7 minutes.

Lloyde's cab was photographed on the bridge next to a downed light pole by a military photographer, but not until 11 minutes after impact. These images were used as propaganda to sell the story that AA77 flew across the bridge and knocked down 5 light poles.

Obviously this was a lie.
Lloyde was not on the bridge, therefore neither did the plane fly across it.
Nor were the 5 poles knocked down by the plane.
The pole in Lloyde's cab was not a light pole.

The premeditation evidenced in the relocation of Lloyde's cab within 7 - 8 minutes of impact, and the presence of an undamaged identical cab on the bridge prior to that time, and the involvement of Rumsfeld's bodyguard in the bridge-cab-pole photo series, corroborated now by several videos, is the proof that the Pentagon event was faked, and that the Pentagon is itself the prime suspect in this crime.

The onus is now on the suspect to explain these anomalies.

The suspect needs to explain what happened to the passengers.

DNA results are easy enough to obtain if the suspect has murdered them, even if at a different location.
The DNA tests do not prove that any of those samples was ever retrieved from the Pentagon.

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: RubyGray

Anybody can take one small aspect of a large event and claim "It doesn't look right!"
But that doesn't make the whole thing a conspiracy.
Speeding doesn't mean DUI.
Sex doesn't mean rape.

People looking at pictures on the internet are the worst to base a proof on.

This is how conspiracy theorists work, concentrate on one tiny aspect that 'seems wrong' whilst completely ignoring the big picture. You see this most vividly with the Flat Earth brigade - argue over a few meters that should or shouldn't be visible through haze and refraction whilst completely ignoring half a mountain that is hidden.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

Numerous witnesses attest to a large passenger jet hitting the pentagon. Even if you disregard the light poles, you still have the damage to the annex antenna, trees and shrubs, where the the left engine hit the low concrete wall, the damage to the construction trailers and equipment, and where the left wing hit before flight 77 made the entrance hole into the pentagon. The damage at the pentagon is consistent with a large jet impact like what a 757 would cause. Not consistent with planted explosives, not consistent with a missile, and not consistent with a smaller jet.

I make no claims to knowing how the Pentagon managed to pull off every detail of their plot. That is not my remit.

However, numerous witnesses also testified that the large plane did not hit the Pentagon, but flew across it.

The witnesses whose testimony is corroborated by newly-revealed video evidence of Lloyde England's cab beside the cemetery wall with a pole in it ... that is, the witnesses who testified to the North-of-Citgo Flight path ... supersede circumstantial evidence of directional damage which could have been caused by processes other than plane impact.

The theory about the left wing hitting before the plane made the hole, is absurd and specious. The official flightpath has the plane impacting at almost a 60 degree angle to the wall. Thus the left wing would have been far away from the wall when the nose impacted. The left wing could not possibly have hit first. There was another event which gave rise to this belief. Many eye witnesses testified that the plane banked RIGHT as it approached the Pentagon.

It is unclear what you mean by "damage to the annex antenna". The Navy Annex had no antenna. A claim that the VDOT antenna tower was damaged by the plane, turned out to be an error.

The green leaves which fluttered gently to the road around downed pole #1 are further proof that the scooped-out shape in the top of the adjacent tree was not caused by a 757 jet engine. Jet exhaust is powerful enough to roll trucks over, and incredibly hot. Any tree that had been hit by a jet engine at 550 mph would have its leaves blown far and wide, or sucked into the engine and burned to ash. The dead loose grass on top of the bridge would have been blasted into oblivion by jet exhaust, but it was undisturbed. However, a machine gun could very quickly produce that scoop effect in the tree.

a reply to: RubyGray

Again. The flight path is on radar. Is that false. The large passenger jet was observed and verified by the pilot of a military cargo plane in real time.

Without the light poles, the bulk of the eyewitness accounts of the flight path are verified by the damage to the annex antenna, damage to trees and shrubs, where the the left engine hit the low concrete wall, the damage to the construction trailers and equipment, and where the left wing hit before flight 77 made the entrance hole into the pentagon. The angle flight 77 entered the pentagon. And where flight 77 entered the pentagon.

So, yes. You need to take in account the entrance hole into the pentagon, and what made it. And what caused the damage to other items along the flight path of flight 77.

a reply to: RubyGray

The premeditation evidenced in the relocation of Lloyde's cab within 7 - 8 minutes of impact, and the presence of an undamaged identical cab on the bridge prior to that time, and the involvement of Rumsfeld's bodyguard in the bridge-cab-pole photo series, corroborated now by several videos, is the proof that the Pentagon event was faked, and that the Pentagon is itself the prime suspect in this crime.

identical Cab?

we have many identical cabs here in Australia, if they belong a certain cab company they will look the same.

And that is enough to say The Pentagon is the prime suspect because 2 cabs looked alike?

to you

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: samkent
a reply to: RubyGray

Anybody can take one small aspect of a large event and claim "It doesn't look right!"
But that doesn't make the whole thing a conspiracy.
Speeding doesn't mean DUI.
Sex doesn't mean rape.

People looking at pictures on the internet are the worst to base a proof on.

This is how conspiracy theorists work, concentrate on one tiny aspect that 'seems wrong' whilst completely ignoring the big picture. You see this most vividly with the Flat Earth brigade - argue over a few meters that should or shouldn't be visible through haze and refraction whilst completely ignoring half a mountain that is hidden.

You on the other hand, ignore crucial multiple video evidence and eye witness testimony which proves that your "big picture" is a counterfeit.

Comparing the presentation of hard evidence with the delusions of Flatearthers is an admission of the bankruptcy of your belief system about the Pentagon on 9/11.

a reply to: RubyGray

You on the other hand, ignore crucial multiple video evidence and eye witness testimony which proves that your "big picture" is a counterfeit.

Then what made the entrance hole in the pentagon. How did the remains of the passengers and flight crew end up in the pentagon.

a reply to: RubyGray

You on the other hand, ignore crucial multiple video evidence and eye witness testimony which proves that your "big picture" is a counterfeit.

Have you posted any or are you just speaking hypocritically because you do the same, ignore what doesn't fit your narrative?

Comparing the presentation of hard evidence with the delusions of Flatearthers is an admission of the bankruptcy of your belief system about the Pentagon on 9/11.

Yep you must be about at the same level of flat earther as you have presented no hard/soft or any kind of evidence other than words in the 3 or 4 posts you have made.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

Again. The flight path is on radar. Is that false. The large passenger jet was observed and verified by the pilot of a military cargo plane in real time.

Without the light poles, the bulk of the eyewitness accounts of the flight path are verified by the damage to the annex antenna, damage to trees and shrubs, where the the left engine hit the low concrete wall, the damage to the construction trailers and equipment, and where the left wing hit before flight 77 made the entrance hole into the pentagon. The angle flight 77 entered the pentagon. And where flight 77 entered the pentagon.

So, yes. You need to take in account the entrance hole into the pentagon, and what made it. And what caused the damage to other items along the flight path of flight 77.

NO, YOU NEED to read and absorb my previous response to your previous questions, which you redundantly re-posted here.

The pilot of the C-130 was so far from the jet that he could not even tell that the explosion occurred at the Pentagon until he came much closer. He was in no position to ascertain whether the plane hit or flew over the Pentagon.

Yes, according to Pilots For 9/11 Truth, the radar data was falsified. Their site has some excellent articles and videos explaining this fact.

.

a reply to: RubyGray

What evidence? What video? Name the witnesses?

Eighty-Seven Eyewitness Accounts
Before and After American Airlines Flight 77
Crashing Into The Pentagon

ratical.org...