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Third US Helicopter Shot Down in Iraq in 8 Days

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posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 05:43 AM
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Reuters on Yahoo!News

A U.S. helicopter crashed just north of Baghdad on Monday, witnesses and the military said, in what appeared to be the second shooting down of an American aircraft in three days.

The U.S. military confirmed that the helicopter went down but was still investigating the cause of the crash. A military spokesman had no comment on the fate of the crew or the type of helicopter.

Earlier, witnesses said the aircraft went down after coming under rocket fire in the small town of Mishahda. One witness said U.S. troops surrounded the crash site, where smoke was rising.

Rebels in northern Iraq apparently shot down an armed U.S. reconnaissance helicopter on Friday, killing its two pilots, in a rare instance of American air power being challenged by guerrillas on the ground.

Just six days earlier, all 12 people aboard were killed when a Black Hawk helicopter went down close to the nearby northern city of Tal Afar, though that has so far been blamed on weather.

That's 3 Helicopters shot down in 8 Days.

And 3 HELICOPTERS in 3 Days.

Well thats a Bad start of the Year 2006 for the US Troops in Iraq - for US commanders Claim that in 2005 only 3 Helicopters were shot down in the entire Year!

[edit on 16/1/06 by Souljah]




posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 05:51 AM
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Uhm. First of all, helicopters ARE aircraft. The three "aircraft" were the three helicopters. So that means only three aircraft down. And the third one is still listed as a crash, not a shoot down. When the Blackhawk went down, it was reported that there was bad weather in the area. It's hard enough to fly planes and helicopters in a straight line sometimes when it's CLEAR, it's 10 times worse in bad weather, and depending on how severe there could have been any number of things to cause it to crash.

Secondly, a guy with a ROCK can shoot down most helicopters. They weren't made to withstand ground fire. Some gunships are, but recon and transports like the OH/AH-58 and UH-60 aren't. They can withstand some ground fire, but even small arms won't have a hard time bringing down a helo. In fact it's a miracle that something with 25,000 parts vibrating in 12 different directions even gets off the ground in the first place.

[edit on 1/16/2006 by Zaphod58]



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 06:00 AM
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well zaphod it is rare shooting down our helocopters, im betting they got some new toys, outside training(chechyn, iran, etc) or gained expierence in target acquisition from ground ied operations..or maybe just luck.



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 06:06 AM
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Sure they haven't shot down many, but sooner or later everyone gets lucky.



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Uhm. First of all, helicopters ARE aircraft. The three "aircraft" were the three helicopters. So that means only three aircraft down. And the third one is still listed as a crash, not a shoot down. When the Blackhawk went down, it was reported that there was bad weather in the area. It's hard enough to fly planes and helicopters in a straight line sometimes when it's CLEAR, it's 10 times worse in bad weather, and depending on how severe there could have been any number of things to cause it to crash.

I am sorry for Battlefield Semantics - I ment 3 Helicopters, mmmkey?

AND, the Third Helicopter is MOST LIKELY to have been shot down too, as the Report says:

A U.S. helicopter crashed just north of Baghdad on Monday, witnesses and the military said, in what appeared to be the second shooting down of an American aircraft in three days.

Notice the words Shooting-Down, not Crashing down or Falling down or showing to any kind of Accident?

Earlier, witnesses said the aircraft went down after coming under rocket fire in the small town of Mishahda. One witness said U.S. troops surrounded the crash site, where smoke was rising.

Notice yet another proof of ENEMY FIRE, that caused the Crash of this Scout Chopper.

But lets Blame Weather on this one too.

Damn those Sunny Winters in Iraq! Damn them!



Secondly, a guy with a ROCK can shoot down most helicopters. They weren't made to withstand ground fire. Some gunships are, but recon and transports like the OH/AH-58 and UH-60 aren't. They can withstand some ground fire, but even small arms won't have a hard time bringing down a helo. In fact it's a miracle that something with 25,000 parts vibrating in 12 different directions even gets off the ground in the first place.

Actually I am surprised by the REPORTED numbers of Downed US Choppers too. I think many more go down without us knowing it. Well, a Chopper in an Urban Combat zone can be very Efficient, but can also come under Heavy anti-aircraft fire very Quickly, so it is also VERY vunerable.



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 06:27 AM
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AlertNet

An Iraqi insurgent group said it had shot down the U.S. helicopter which crashed north of Baghdad on Monday, according to a Web posting.

"Your brothers in one of the units of the Salaheddin al-Ayubi Brigades ... shot down an Apache helicopter in the Mishahda area with missiles," said an Internet statement attributed to the group, which has claimed a number of attacks in recent months

The U.S. military confirmed that the helicopter went down but said it was still investigating the cause of the crash. Earlier, witnesses said the aircraft went down after coming under rocket fire.

I wonder why the Official Statement does not tell which type of Helicopter was downed, they simply ignore that and write US Helicopter.



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 06:34 AM
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Ok souljah. Try to keep up with this. It's actually fairly simple.
OH-58/AH-58. Recon helicopter
UH-60- Transport helicopter

The FIRST helicopter to crash was a UH-60 Blackhawk. When it crashed, there was bad weather reported in the area, and it was flying at night.

The SECOND helicopter was shot down. It was an OH-58 Kiowa RECON HELICOPTER.

The THIRD helicopter to APPARENTLY be shot down, this being the second shootdown if it's confirmed, was an unidentified type, but PROBABLY was another Kiowa.

From your own source now....



Rebels in northern
Iraq apparently shot down an armed U.S. reconnaissance helicopter on Friday, killing its two pilots, in a rare instance of American air power being challenged by guerrillas on the ground.

Just six days earlier, all 12 people aboard were killed when a Black Hawk helicopter went down close to the nearby northern city of Tal Afar, though that has so far been blamed on weather.

news.yahoo.com...

Now that accounts for two of the three losses right there. Do you know how recon helos work souljah? They buzz around LOOKING FOR guys with guns. If they're unlucky enough to stumble on them, and they aren't the AH version that has weapons they don't get to defend themselves, and are probably going to get shot down, unless they're VERY good and VERY lucky. Yes there are ways to make it less dangerous, but sometimes you just have a bad day, and the guys with the guns win.

By the way souljah, if you're gonna accuse me of something I didn't say, check your own sources. It said RIGHT IN YOUR FIRST QUOTE that the first helicopter crash was blamed on weather so far. I NEVER said that this last one was downed due to weather.

[edit on 1/16/2006 by Zaphod58]



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Ok souljah. Try to keep up with this. It's actually fairly simple.

Hey, you can drop the Patronizing element from your Posts and Please, do not Insult my Intelligence, shows weakness in your Character.

The Mysterious Crash of the Black Hawk was really never Explained - the only mention of WEATHER you find in this Article that says, and I quote:

Just six days earlier, all 12 people aboard were killed when a Black Hawk helicopter went down close to the nearby northern city of Tal Afar, though that has so far been blamed on weather.

I bet that the Military has a Hard Job to keep the Public from knowing what is REALLY going on in Baghdad and what they TELL YOU That is going on in Baghdad.

Do you remember the British C-130 that went down, right after the Take off? Everybody was quickly abandoning all theories of a MISSILE ATTACK, and quickly diverted the topic to an Accident.

And it was PROVED that that aircraft was shot down by anti-aircraft fire.

Bottom line is, that the Military must make sure, that they create the Image that they have EVERYTHING under CONTROL - when in fact, they have NOTHING under control.



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 06:56 AM
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Of course, you're right. Helicopters don't just crash. They HAVE TO BE shot down.
There's no such thing as bad weather there, and there are no mechanical failures. It MUST have been shot down.



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Of course, you're right. Helicopters don't just crash. They HAVE TO BE shot down.
There's no such thing as bad weather there, and there are no mechanical failures. It MUST have been shot down.

I didn't say it MUST been shot down.

Weather IS a Big and Common reason for Aircraft Accidents.

But in a Warzone there are more concerning Factors then a little Side Wind.

Anyway, the US Military said that Black Hawk MAY HAVE BEEN brought down by Weather, but the Cause is still Under Investigation.



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 07:09 AM
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Not according to this thread it isn't. Let me quote your thread title. Third US Helicopter Shot Down in Iraq in 8 Days. Sounds pretty closed minded about what might have brought it down there. Let's take a look at a few FACTS about that crash shall we? I can think of two BIG facts that contributed to the crash.

Fact One; The helicopter was reported to have been flying at MIDNIGHT. This means NVGs. NVGs have been one of the biggest causes of crashes in helicopters. Flying at night, with no depth perception makes it VERY easy to crash.

Fact Two: Bad weather was reported in the area at the time of the crash.

We should take a look at how many helicopters have been shot down at night, and how many have been shot down during the day. In a warzone, since they use NVGs to fly at night, most helicopters fly without lights. That makes it a LOT harder to get a shot at them. You can't localize a helo by sound at night, because it echos so much. Unless the people that "shot it down" suddenly got something along the lines of a ZSU or other radar set, it would have been VERY difficult to shoot it down at midnight. Impossible? No. Not at all. Likely? No. Not at all.

[edit on 1/16/2006 by Zaphod58]



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 07:14 AM
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Well, Souljah, as usual you're blowing everything well out of proportion. Let's try this again, from the top.

en.wikipedia.org...

A helicopter is a mechanical contraption that is fairly complex, on the order of some twenty-five thousand parts, plus electronics in civillian models, much less accounting for armor in military models. Said contraption is, as we have noted, fairly complex and difficult to fly.

As an aircraft, it would be negatively affected by wind, like other aircraft. Tell me, Souljah, is it windy in Iraq some days?

And is it sandy ro dusty, too, out there in the desert? Might this detrius build up and foul the workings of this slow and fairly unwieldy contraption? Might its low speed and fight against natural forces render it vulnerable to mechanical failure?

Now that I have presented my argument for mechanical accident, are you going to respond with something other than the usual propaganda, anti-western rhetoric and thinly veiled personal attacks?

DE



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 12:52 AM
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The third one shot down sounds like another Kiowa. If it was a Blackhawk it would have had more than two people onboard. This one only had two.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
The third one shot down sounds like another Kiowa. If it was a Blackhawk it would have had more than two people onboard. This one only had two.

Yesterday I saw on CNN News, that a Mujahideen Army posted a Video of this event on their Web site, and this video clearly shown an Apache being shot down by Missiles.


BBC News

The Mujahideen Army posted a website video of a helicopter being shot down. Arab television channels later broadcast the footage, showing a surface-to-air missile hitting an aircraft.

The Salaheddin al-Ayubi Brigades issued an internet statement saying one of its brigades "shot down an Apache helicopter in the Mishahda area with missiles".

Anyway, why doesn't the US Military explain what happened, and most of all, why don't they tell the Type of the Chopper being downed?

Well if Apache, the Most Armored Helicopter in US Army, is Vunerable to SAM attacks, I am sure that they wouldn't want that news telling on every News Station there is.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 05:58 AM
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point one : how many aircraft of any sort were lost to any cause in the previous 16 days ???

point two - ever heard of OPSEC ???



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:02 AM
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Uh, I hate to burst your bubble, but ALMOST EVERYTHING is vulnerable to SAM attacks. ESPECIALLY something designed to hover at low levels, and moves at 200 mph, when at top speed. When target hunting, it's more like 30 mph, TOPS, followed by long periods of hovering. There are systems that can make SAM danger LESS, but there is no such thing as a helicopter that is invulnerable to SAMs. Look at the Russian Hind. THE most heavily armored helicopter in the world, and they were brought down routinely by Stingers in Afghanistan. I saw pictures of them blown in half by a Stinger hit. If a HIND can't take a simple Stinger hit, do you SERIOUSLY think an Apache can? It's been known for YEARS that the Apache is vulnerable to SAMs. Anyone that knows anything about military systems, and has a brain in their head knew that it was.

When you fly slow, and hover for any period of time, guess what that means? You're what's called an "Easy Target". That means that just about ANY weapon system is going to be able to hit you. You can drop chaff and flares to try to fool a SAM, but if you're hovering, or moving slowly your chances of dodging it are, oh, let's say, Slim and None.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
point one : how many aircraft of any sort were lost to any cause in the previous 16 days ???

point two - ever heard of OPSEC ???

Point One: I don't really know about all Sorts of Aircraft being lost - I heard that there was an Accident with an US F-15 Today in Okinawa.

Point Two: OPSEC? ERrr... No, I haven't heard about them. Should I?



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 06:25 AM
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OPSEC: OPerational SECurity

It's called not giving out information that your enemy might be able to use against you. Like say, you're using Apache helicopters in a four day operation North of Baghdad. The only people that know are the ones THERE. You start broadcasting you have an Apache group up there, and everyone says "Let's go hunt helicopters", and you start losing more of them. Really simple way to keep that from happening is to just not say what it was until the operation is over.



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 07:05 AM
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I found a Link to Video, that Claims to have been Recorded Yesterday.

It is Hard to see which Helicopter it is.

Take a Look.

And we have another Source, claiming an Apache was shot down:


Xinhua - Two US pilots killed in helicopter crash north of Baghdad

Two US pilots were killed when their Apache combat helicopter went down north of Baghdad on Monday, the US military said in a statement.

The AH-64 Apache was conducting a combat air patrol when it "crashed in a swampy area north of Taji," an area "known for terrorist activity", the statement said, without giving the cause of the crash.

Earlier, an Iraqi insurgent group claimed it shot down a US Apache helicopter with an anti-aircraft missile north of Baghdad. The Dubai-based al-Arabiya television channel said the helicopter was hit by a rocket near the town of Meshahadah, some 30 km north of Baghdad.


[edit on 17/1/06 by Souljah]



posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 07:06 AM
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ok, only 3 heliocopters last year? thats not bad at all considering how many RPG's and anti-aircraft guns and missiles the insurgents probably have. and yes it is difficult to maintain aircraft in a desert enviroment. the aircraft not to mention other equipment go to hell in a hurry.


anyway, I dont know what the point of the post is soljah but if your intention is to say 'look the insurgents are winning' you couldnt be more mistaken.



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