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ATS: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to Host Debate on Holocaust.

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posted on Jan, 18 2006 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by subz
....................
They would do anything to establish a Jewish state, including negotiating and trying to form an alliance with the Third Reich.


Just because a group of people were trying to save their own people at all cost doesn't mean all "zionists" agreed with this....

There were countries in Europe, or towns in some of those countries, that joined Germany in WWI. There were people who thought that uniting with Germany would make sure they survived. Don't try to blame this only on the zionists subz...


Originally posted by subz
The land that is now Israel was part of the Islamic Caliphate from the 7th century (the birth of Islam) until 1924. I really dont know how you can say that the land was never muslim land when it was ruled by muslims for the best part of 1300 years.


Subz...first of all, who was in control of those lands for thousands of years before the "nomad" tribes of Arabs were united by Mohammed?.... Many nations and many ethnicities, that's the answer, and among them the Israelis.

Are you claiming that the Muslims are the only ones that are allowed to win lands by war?...

Perhaps you should remember that more recently the Israelis won those lands from the Muslims.... Several Muslim countries were defeated by the Israelis alone. Even if the U.S. and other countries such as France sold weapons to Israel, the Israelis defeated the Muslims by themselves.

By rights of conquest Israel belongs to Israel. It could have been a lot worse if the Israelis would have decided to "subjugate, cut heads off, or drive off" Muslims from Palestine that wouldn't accept being "assimilated into the Jewish faith, like the nomad tribes of Mohammed did when they assimilated and made many ethnicities submit to Islam, be destroyed or driven off their lands to all the ethnicities that called most of the middle east their home.



Originally posted by subz
The land that is now Israel was muslim controlled until the break up of the Islamic Ottoman Empire following the end of WW1.
..........
Unless you have some evidence to dispute these facts I think I have provided incontrovertable proof that Israel was created on muslim territory.


Ok subz, let's look at some facts which again you decided not to mention.

Let's first find out exactly what the name "Palestine" derives from, and who were the "Philistines."


WHAT DOES "PALESTINE" MEAN?

It has never been the name of a nation or state. It is a geographical term, used to designate the region at those times in history when there is no nation or state there.

The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The Philistines were mediterranean people originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They reached the southern coast of Israel in several waves. One group arrived in the pre-patriarchal period and settled south of Beersheba in Gerar where they came into conflict with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Another group, coming from Crete after being repulsed from an attempted invasion of Egypt by Rameses III in 1194 BCE, seized the southern coastal area, where they founded five settlements (Gaza, Ascalon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gat). In the Persian and Greek periods, foreign settlers - chiefly from the Mediterranean islands - overran the Philistine districts. From the time of Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean "Syria Palaestina".

The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina"; which is derived from the Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea.

The use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab ethnic group is a modern political creation which has no basis in fact - and had never had any international or academic credibility before 1967.


This page was produced by Joseph E. Katz
Middle Eastern Political and Religious History Analyst
Brooklyn, New York


Excerpted from.
www.eretzyisroel.org...

If you don't want to believe that link, here is another.


If the Philistines are to be identified as one of the "Sea Peoples" (see Origins below), then their occupation of Canaan will have taken place during the reign of Rameses III of the Twentieth Dynasty, ca. 1180 to 1150 BCE. Their maritime knowledge presumably would have made them important to the Phoenicians.

In Egypt, a people called the "Peleset" (or, more precisely, prst), generally identified with the Philistines, appear in the Medinet Habu inscription of Ramses III[1], where he describes his victory against the Sea Peoples, as well as the Onomastica of Amenope (late Twentieth Dynasty) and the Great Papyrus Harris (Papyrus Harris I), a summary of Ramses III's reign written in the reign of Ramses IV. Nineteenth-century Bible scholars identified the land of the Philistines (Philistia) with Palastu and Pilista in Assyrian inscriptions, according to Easton's Bible Dictionary (1897).

The Philistines occupied the five cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, along the coastal strip of southwestern Canaan, that belonged to Egypt up to the closing days of the Nineteenth Dynasty (ended 1185 BCE). The biblical stories of Samson, Samuel, Saul and David include accounts of Philistine-Israelite conflicts. The Philistines long held a monopoly on iron smithing (a skill they possibly acquired during conquests in Anatolia), and the biblical description of Goliath's armor is consistent with this iron-smithing technology.

This powerful association of tribes made frequent incursions against the Hebrews. There was almost perpetual war between the two peoples. They sometimes held the Hebrews, especially the southern tribes, in servitude; at other times they were defeated with great slaughter. The Philistine cities were ruled by seranim, "lords", who acted together for the common good, though to what extent they had a sense of a "nation" is not clear without literary sources. After their defeat by the Israelite King David, kings replaced the seranim, governing from various cities. Some of these kings were called Abimelech.

The Philistines lost their independence to Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria by 736 BC, and revolts in following years were all crushed. Later, Nebuchadrezzar II of Babylon eventually conquered all of Syria and the Kingdom of Judah, and the former Philistine cities became part of the Neo-Babylonian Empire. Subsequently the cities were under the control of Persians, Greeks, and Romans, and "Philistia" was governed as a territory.

The name of the region of Palestine comes, via Greek and Latin, from the Philistines; see History of Palestine.

Origin of the Philistines
It has been suggested that the Philistines formed part of the great naval confederacy, the "Sea Peoples", who had wandered, at the beginning of the 12th century BCE, from their homeland in southern Greece and the Aegean islands to the shores of the Mediterranean and repeatedly attacked Egypt during the later Nineteenth Dynasty. Though eventually repulsed by Ramesses III, he was, according to the theory, apparently unable to dislodge them from their settlements in Canaan.


Excerpted from.
en.wikipedia.org...

Palestine was never a state....it was the name of the region. This is part of the reason why Palestine, as a state, has not been recognized. When the Palestinian authorities were given the chance to be recognized, they decided not to accept the resolutions by the UN because they were still angry at the Israelis winning the land from them once more and didn't want to recognize that they lost.


[edit on 18-1-2006 by Muaddib]




posted on Jan, 18 2006 @ 03:01 AM
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BTW subz, just so that you brush up on "recent" history, here is a link, with a small excerpt. of who has won wars in that region recently, even against 6 Muslim nations together.


Primary Name of War or Conflict Description of Conflict and Participants Placement in Conflict Series (Where Possible)
Israeli War of Independence (1948-1949) 1st Arab-Israeli War
Upon independence, Israel was invaded by the armies of six Arab nations: Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. In addition, local Arab Palestinian forces also fought the Jewish Israelis.


The Sinai War (1956) [Also known as the Suez War] 2nd Arab-Israeli War

The invasion and temporary conquest of Egypt's Sinai Peninsula by Israel, while France and Great Britain seized the Suez Canal.

Palestinian-Israeli Conflict (1960-Present) 3rd Arab-Israeli War

This includes the Palestinian guerrilla warfare against Israel from the 1960's, original Intifada (1988-1992) and the current "Al-Aqsa" Intifada (2000-Present). See below.
Israel faced guerrilla and terrorist warfare from several Palestinian armies, most of whom united under the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), led by Yassir Arafat. Current fighting involves Israel against more religiously militant groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad, as well as against Arafat's Palestinian Authority.

The Six-Day War (1967) 4th Arab-Israeli War
In a rapid pre-emptive attack, Israel crushed the military forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria and seized large amounts of land from each. Iraq also participated in the fighting on the Arab side.


Excerpted from.
www.historyguy.com...

---edited to correct error---

[edit on 18-1-2006 by Muaddib]



 
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