Joint swedish/russian military exercise!

The Swedes are going to wargames with Russia!
For a norwegian, and perhaps the swedish people, this is an almost unfathomable decision made by the swedish Government!

'Operation Snowflake' is to be launched this week.
The russian force consist of the 138th. Motorized Infantry Brigade, infamous for their actions in Chechnya.

The swedish defence minister calls the exercise a 'training in fighting terrorism'.
In reality, Sweden legitimitize the 138th. Brigade behaviour in Chechnya.

This exercise is going to last from the 19. to 26. This month.

I wonder how the veteran russians will proceed in their 'excersise' in Sweden? I wonder if the swedish government will get anyh complaints from the locals? My wild shot is... ...YES!

Related link:
Pravda.ru
Svenska Dagbladet (Swedish link)

Edited in an afterthought by a norwegian, namely me;
Aren't Sweden supposed to be neutral?!? Why do they have a military excercise with the russians??
Again, imho, this shows the rest of the scandinavians, i.e. the finnish, the danes and the norwegians, that the swedish Government is definitely not trustworthy!!

[edit on 15-1-2006 by Ulvetann]

So... today is the last day of freedom for the Swedes? The Russians will invade tomorrow? I still haven´t seen this exercise mentioned in any norwegian or danish media. The Moscow Times got a small article about it. They say the Russians who are to be taking part of this exercise in Sweden are guilty of gross human rights violations in Chechnya...

The Moscow Times: Joint Military Exercises Criticized


The Russians have this joint "anti-terror" exercise in Sweden and then the FSB have a "joint anti-terror exercise" in the UK as well (also in January 2006). Some "big happy family" we are
FSB (KGB) Are Coming To UK To Rehearse A Terror Attack

Originally posted by Hellmutt
The Russians have this joint "anti-terror" exercise in Sweden and then the FSB have a "joint anti-terror exercise" in the UK as well (also in January 2006). Some "big happy family" we are

FSB (KGB) Are Coming To UK To Rehearse A Terror Attack

Remembre before the July Bombings in London, there were also Anti-Terror Exercies going on - actually they were taking place almost at the same TIME as the real bombings.

Prison Planet

...mock terror drills were taking place at several of the sames times and places as the actual bombings, and his people suddenly realized it as they were doing their mock work on the morning of the bombings.

I don't see the problem here.

They are not allied with anyone, but are consucting manuevers with a nation. That is their right. They pose no threat to Europe, North or South America, Africa etc...

Let them do as they please. Russia is a military power worth working with. Every nations soldiers need to practice.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I don't see the problem here.

Imo, I think what should be considered here, is that we in Europe, in most parts of Europe, i. e. Have for the latter part of the decades tried to have a moral and ethical stance against the use of military regimes violating human rights. See, we tend to learn from past 'mistakes' done. For instance, WWII made us realize that organizations like Nato, and UN were needed to stabilize something once called world-peace.

Sweden is about to mingle with someone they have never appreciated.
In 1808-09 The swedes were at war with Russia over Finland. Russia won, got Finland, and later gave Finland extensive sovereignity, and that way created the Finnish state.
Of course, it is alot of political dualism into this. The swedish government want to improve their relationship with Russia, for some odd reason.
I can never, ever imagine the swedish government ask for russian military assistance in the event of a national (swedish) terrorist incident.

I wonder what the finnish people thinks of Sweden for doing this. As well as norwegians, that learnt during the WWII, that Sweden acted far from neutral regarding Nazi troop, and munition-movements. Not to mention they exported Iron ore by train to the coast of Norway, where it was shipped of to Germany. Instead of putting up resistance, as the rest of Europe did, they were very cooperative with the 'ze dritte reich'.

The norwegians themselves, has actually a lot to be grateful for, when it comes to Russia, Russia liberated northern Norway from ze germans, but we, by modern etiquette, are not willingly inviting a millitary force of human rights violators to come over and have a sausage-bbq in the wilderness. (Yet. -And I am not open for a debacle over my own hippocracy, for not defining the US forces training in Norway, for human rights violators.)

To not to stray too much away from my point, imho, I think the swedish invitation to have the russian 138th. mech. inf. brig in a week long sleep-over/manouver is, well, 5-10 years too early? The brigades history for violence is, again imo, way to fresh, to be political correct in any way.

It seems that the swedish government are stepping all over UNs work for making humans more humane, by accepting this 'excercise in terrorism'.

What would the media say, if Norway invited Hamas to do urban training in Oslo?

What would the media say, If USA invited the Cuban army to do urban training in Miami?

I wonder what the Chechnians think of Sweden?

Let them do as they please. Russia is a military power worth working with. Every nations soldiers need to practice.

I think this is a rather fast, unconsidered, ignorant perspective, only belonging to shortsighted politicians.
Again, this is only my personal opinion.

I just read this in a danish newspaper. Two little girls were sent home from school by their headmaster (not teacher, but headmaster!) in Sweden. The reason was that they were wearing T-shirts with the Swedish flag on it. The Swedish flag is apparently banned in Swedish schools. The article claimed that the Swedish national anthem was banned in Swedish schools as well. The reason for this was that certain immigrants might find it offensive. This just show how wrong they are. I don´t believe for a second that the immigrants actually would find the Swedish flag or national anthem offensive, but some Swedes apparently think so. They put the Swedish flag and national anthem in the same cathegory as the nazi´s swastica. The Swedish people are not "free" at all, I feel sorry for them.

I guess I would have to say, that the swedes are scandinavias answer to the french. They are nice, but somewhat weird.

Who said: "Going to war without France, is like going on deerhunting without an accordion. -You leave all the noise behind you."

I have the same feelings regarding swedish politics.

Originally posted by Ulvetann

I wonder what the Chechnians think of Sweden?

The answer is here. They "condemn the Ministry of Defense of Kingdom of Sweden for its cooperation with terror units"...

KAVKAZ CENTER: The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria presents its compliments to Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Sweden and declare a resolute protest concerning the coming cooperation in the field of military of the Ministry of Defense of the Kingdom of Sweden with military sub-units of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation which is obviously taking part in war crime during the ongoing occupation of Chechnya by the Russian military forces.

the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria would like to inform the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Sweden that the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria still is in war with the Russian Federation, and based on clear evidence of aggression following by war crime, crime against humanity, mass violation of human rights, ecological and humanitarian disaster the Chechen side all ready appoint well known international lawyers to investigate such with following appeal to international court

we keep a right to condemn the Ministry of Defense of Kingdom of Sweden for its cooperation with terror units

Hellmutt, as should the countries of scandinavia too.
This man, Vladimir Frolov is no sheep.


Why haven't the media in either Norway or Denmark taken notice of several tip regarding this military excercise going on? Are the media being silenced??
By doing a search for info, All I am able to find is three small notices, in swedish online newspapers. Old ones. Kind of absurd, imo.


Photo: Mats Carlsson/Försvarsmakten

Since this is a true change of relationship between two nations, I would believe there would be a more concrete flow of information of what is going to happen.

To the defence of military PR. The swedish military covers the exercise on their own homepage www.mil.se

on their site, they state;

The excercise are being conducted as preparations towards a fictional peace-enforcing operation."

Imo, I feel this whole sentence are spoken in political gibberish. 'Preparations'? 'Peace-enforcing'? 'Fictional'?
Yes, I DO understand, that training is needed for soldiers, but what happened to prior decades, where peace-KEEPING where the fashion?
I feel there truly is a stench of neo-colonization going on. By the weight of umph-teen WHY's, are the scandinavian countries all into (more or less) sudden military enforcing? As if the scandinavian countries were populated with enough young men and women, to write them off as 'regretful victims of war', or in political and financial terms, expendables.

The swedish politicians were clever enough to state that this is a joint exercise in purely defensive matters, i.e. peace-keeping.
I believe they thought it would be (somewhat)easier for people to digest the camel, when saying peace-keeping. Afterall, scandinavians has had peacekeepers since the Korean war.
-But are they just not aware of the difference between peace-keeping, and peace-enforcing?
The military says enforcing, within 'the boundries of a UN-mandate'. Whatever that means, nobody is stating anywhere.
The only thing I can 'read' from this 'mandate', is that UN has opened up for/agreed to/permitted a military exercise between the countries, without any further limitations. I don't think the UN expected that sweden would invite human right violators.

Enough about the swedes, and their ignorant, inadequate understanding for word, phrases and other expressions.
Who is this Russian Colonel, they have invited?

Photo: Mats Carlsson/Försvarsmakten
Colonel Vladimir Frolov, in the middle, w/o microphone.

Related Link:
The Russia Journal, (Russia unlikely to examine mass grave.)

I have tried for some days now, to figure out who he is, but I guess 'Vladimir Frolov'must equal to the name 'John Smith'.
Although I find a lot of murky stuff on Vladimir Frolov. He is a politician, Deputy Head of Staff of the State Duma International Affairs Commitee.
With that title, he got to earn a lot of money, don't you think?
this guy is analyzing vital stuff going on right now. He is like a 'one-man-ats'.
In 2002, he wrote; '...Or just irrational exuberance'.
Johnson's Russia List
In 2003, he wrote; 'LESSONS OF THE IRAQI WAR FOR RUSSIA-US RELATIONSHIP'.
Johnson's Russia List

In 2001, he was motivated to leave the US, suspected by the US government of being a spy.

F.B.I. officials say Frolov, who built a reputation among American journalists and experts at Washington policy organizations as a reliable and candid observer of United States-Russian relations, is an officer in the S.V.R, Russia’s foreign intelligence service, The New York Times
reported Monday.
Frolov’s departure - just weeks after the arrest of F.B.I. agent Robert P. Hanssen, accused of spying for Russia - has raised questions about whether Frolov was involved in handling the operation for Hanssen’s service.
His departure came as the Bush administration deliberated over whether to protest the Hanssen spy case by demanding that Moscow withdraw some Russian intelligence officers working undercover as diplomats in the United States.

Interestingly enough, I managed to find a picture of the parlamentarian, Vladimir Frolov in the norwegian newssite.

Photo: AFP/Viktor Drachev

This is from an article dated back to 05.06.2004, when these three politicians; Valeriy Parfenovich (left), Sergei Skrebets and Vladimir Frolov (right) went on a hunger-strike on the 3rd. of june. The President of Belarus, Alexander Lukasjenko, turned of the microphones in the parliament every time Frolov and the others tried to propose a new legislation.
They also demanded that Lukasjenko should release a political prisoner. Mikhail Marinich.
Related link:
NRK (Norwegian link)

I wonder if Frolov is in Sweden, only to have a first view impression on scandinavian military resources and mobilization. Like a true field agent. James Bond, go to mama.

I am having some spare time to twist my boggling mind into chaos and some.

I was wondering what political (absurd) possibilities there are to further complicate the already ludicrous political state of our small pebble in space.

Take for granted that the swedes only want some input from someone they admire or respect. What do the russians want from Sweden?
I am pretty sure Putin could care less about swedes being afraid of islamic terror north of the polar circle.

I thought of this strange fictional possibility...
Since Sweden is not a member of NATO, Russia can by some mysterious ways in the art of Sun-Tzu, without drawing too much attention, come up with a plan to initiate exercises, that will lead to a 'prosperous' agreement of cooperation regarding fighting terror.
(Sorry for the long sentence)
Step one in the masterplan of Russia (Gog/Magog?)

IF this exercise/exchange of knowledge would lead to an agreement, what would Sweden do, if contacted by the Russian Government?
They would surely feel obliged/obligated to follow through on their endorsement, otherwise it would become a severe political situation, where Russia alternatively could declare war against Sweden.

Let's bring up an example, taken from one very related thread;
Moldova-Transdniestria

Here, we have a stalemate situation between Russia, Transdniestria vs. Moldova, OSCE/EU/NATO/USA.

Note: Sweden is NOT a member of NATO, but EU.
What would happen, if Sweden cooperated with Russia, in Russian 'Anti-terror' task forces?
EU would become inhabile in any actions, helping Moldova. EU forces do not attack other EU forces.
Sweden has been partaken in several Partnership For Peace operations lead by NATO, and this would severly hurt NATOs stand, depriving NATO of it's power conducting operations.

Is this whole business a clever trick to void EU/OSCE and NATO/USAs power in this region?
Is this whole agenda a clever trick to start a war between EU and USA?

IF EU attacks Sweden (indirectly!), EU has got it's civil war.
IF USA attack Sweden (indirectly!), EU has got it's war against USA.
Both OSCE and NATO is practically paralyzed in their functions if Sweden joins Russia in any cooperative engagements.

If Russia 'drag' Sweden into anti-terror war, where the USofA all of the sudden is involved as an opposite, Sweden (EU) would practically have to declare war against themselves/USA. THAT's a tricky piece of conflictful politics!
Sweden MUST NOT make any agreement with Russia!
This is very close to become a possible (if not already) political disaster. Maybe even treason!
What would You call it, if Your politicians gave a foreign country the possibility to drag your country into war?

I told You this was mindboggling!

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Ulvetann]

I expected some news today in some newspaper, on how this friendly exercise is going. -Like some happy, shiny story telling us how the swedes and russian forces drink vodka, play the accordion, sing and dance merrily around the campfires in the wilderness of the Boden district, or some more meaningful story about how the communication between the troops are sucessfully giving this exercise valuable lessons for both parts, both political and military, as well as cultural. You know, the essence, that all analysts look for.

Nada, nothing, nie, nichts, rien, ingenting.

The only thing I could find was a very tiny note stating that the Swedish Minister of Defence along with the russian ambassador Alexander Kadakin (Picture below) were going to 'partake' in the exercise at a shooting-range named Tåme, close to Skellefteå.


So, in the lack of news, I had to dig up something about the russian ambassador. Why not, perhaps he could have some murky past.

He was graduated with highest grades, from Moscows State University for International Relations, USSRs Departement of Foreign Affairs.
He has been an ambassador in India, where he has worked to improve the relationship between India and Russia, in anti-terror matters. Both countries being neighbours to Afghanistan, they are concerned about threats of terrorism from Afghanistan. Nor are India and Russia unwillingly taking to each other regarding weapons and aircrafts.
He started out in India as an ambassador-secretary in 1972, and maintained close relations to India all up to 2004. In between some other chores, like being an ambassador in Nepal between 1993-1997.
From 2004-2005, he had a position within the Russian Foreign ministry, where after he went on to Sweden as ambassador.

Eventhough this information are interesting, I didn't heave my bushy eyebrows, before I took note of where Ambassador Alexander Kadakin was born. If anyone have read the beforementioned link regarding Transdniestria-Moldova, you will understand that I got even more qurious, when I saw that his birthplace was Moldova!

Are the russians playing chess with scandinavia now?
Are they trying to allocate some pieces, to have the opponent(s) make a bad draw?
It sure tingles in my panties, when thinking about the possibilities.
This ambassador has really been in the game a long time.

The active phase has begun. The Russians came "without military hardware and firearms". They "started studying and mastering Swedish firearms, with which they will make field firing, as well as Swedish armoured carriers" ok... whatever they´re doing, they´ve started now...

It's the 26th. of January, and the media has had their scheduled media day 2 days ago.

Seemingly, there has been no media coverage, at least when it comes to online, and papermedias.
The only information I have found, is from the www.mil.se -site.
Where the military PR can tell about a huge amount of reporters interviewing both soldiers and politicians. At least, that is what the site states. There was 24 swedish journalists, and 17 russian ones. In fact, there were more russian journalists, than russian soldiers on-site.
I guess the most of the 30 russian soldiers where out of sight, and the journalists where guided into a small closed-in area, where they were allowed to take some snap-shots, and smile to the officers. hard to say, really, since there are no journalists reporting from the event.

According to the military press-release, the soldiers were positive, and they felt the exercise was rewarding, regarding exchange of experience.

"It has been very educating, and a fun exercise, it is really a privilege to take part in this", says the swedish soldier Amir Khanamadi, from Härnösand.

"We have had good opportunities to speak with the russian soldiers, and hear how they experience their education", says Combat Vehicle gunner Robert Gustafsson, from Gunnarn.

Mats Carlsson, from the I19 Information Office states;

One thing that clearly has emerged through the conversation with the russian soldiers is, that everything that has to do with security, are on a way higher level in Sweden.

Related link:
Mil.se

After waiting a day and a half for some full media coverage, I gave up, and have now written what was to write of. Because today, 'Operation Snöflingan' officially ended with a ceremony and more speeches.
Colonel Frolov spoke of the friendship that had developed between the representatives of both units, and the commander of I19, could in his speech confirm, that the soldiers had reached their goals with the exercise and that they could feel proud at what they had accomplished the last week.

Then the russian soldiers jumped onto a bus, that took them to an awaiting aircraft, to take them home to their garrison at Kamenka NE of St. Petersburg.

History has been written, as this was the first time Russia ever held a military exercise in Sweden.

Well, well.

This, I find very interesting.
The swedes seems to have found a russian spy amongst them, less than a month after their successful good neighbourhoodly military exercise in their northern territories.

Now, they have found this spy, operating in the vicinity of Uppsala, only a brave 50km from Stockholm, down south. This person, found spying, was a guest researcher. Engaged in research work at the Centre for Genetics at the agricultural university in Uppsala. He, a 30'ish years old russian, has been engaged in virus-research since January, last year, until february this year. (Wednesday to be exact).

He was detained by the suspicion of spying, by court-order, today (friday), although, he was apprehended on wednesday.
He is to be hold in custody for the next two weeks, and is now being kept isolated in the Kronoberg-facility.
He pleaded not guilty, and everything is still very hushed up, so there is really no information to the media yet.
The professor, the guy was working with, stated; "He is a nice guy."

The General public prosecutor of Sweden, Tomas Lindstrand, was saying that the person detained has, "inflicted damage on the armed forces of Sweden". He did not expand on how serious the damage is.
I am curious on how the 'armed forces' suffer from agricultural research!

-I want to hear more of this!

Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Sweden, and also the Russian Embassy in Stockholm have declined to comment on the incident.

Related link:
Svenska Dagbladet (swedish)
Dagens Nyheter (swedish)
Expressen (swedish)
RIA Novosti (english)

-Are the swedes going looking for spy-rocks too, now!?

Originally posted by Ulvetann
..
The General public prosecutor of Sweden, Tomas Lindstrand, was saying that the person detained has, "inflicted damage on the armed forces of Sweden". He did not expand on how serious the damage is.
I am curious on how the 'armed forces' suffer from agricultural research!

-I want to hear more of this!
..

Indirect biowarfare? *


*i mean weapons aimed at crops rather than people

I can tell you that just because a army or unit has done something dose not mean that is what they stand for and can do it again. An army of the past has little to do with a army now because it has new leadership and new soldiers. No matter what a unit has done in the past, what it will do in the future is up to it's new commanders and soldiers.

Like American said, all soldiers need to train. What soldiers do is for the most part political anyways.

The russian spy-suspect incarcerated, are creating a situation between Sweden and Russia.

The Russian Foreign Departement look upon this case gravely. They also say, that these kinds of incidents cannot avoid make some infliction on the relations between the countries.

The russian FD has given the suspect consular aid, and the russian representatives has asked for the swedish government for information, to get an overview of what is going on, but Russia deem the information given, for insufficient.
The russian foreign minister Sergej Lavrov says, that the swedish government has not being able themselves, to explain what the problem really is. The swedish government has even gone so far, that to ask Lavrov to 'not inform the media' i.e. not to make the case public! -This is something Lavrov later informed the press ITAR-TASS about.

The swedish foreign ministry has no comment on the issue...

Related link:
Göteborgsposten (swedish)

Well, it seems like the Swedes got themselves a "little" virus... Oskarshamn nuclear power plant (look at the map ... south of Stockholm). They have sealed off the power plant and uses the emergency bunker as a "commando post for the battle against the virus". I wonder if our Russian spy could be involved in this somehow. And if this virus is the H5N1 (as they say to have "confirmed") or if we might be talking about a different virus here. I just speculating, but everything here smells weird...

Yes, the H5N1 was confirmed. Sweden has the bird flu. And now they have just confirmed that they have the Mad Cow Disease also. Lots of coincidences here. "The experts" are puzzled by how the bird flu got to Sweden as well. The Russian "spy" is still detained in Sweden. No charges. If they don´t charge him for something soon they will have to let him go according to Swedish laws. I wonder what he did?

Wow, I believe that you didn't go over the edge, bringing in the 'bird-flu' issue into this thread, afterall, Hellmutt!

It seems that research ARE being done on flu-virus, specifically, at this research-center! The journalist says, that scientists at Uppsala, are mapping the NS1-gene, that exists in several flu-virii. The plan, accordingly, is to reduce the risk of getting diseases.

The NS-1-gene helps the virii, to fight the hosts early stages of immunity resistance.
The gene makes the virii reduce or shut down the hosts production of Interferon, which again, makes it (The hosts) more liable to infections.
This is applied to hosts like birds, pigs, horses and humans!

One spesific goal for this research, is to map all the NS1-strains, that are dangerous to different species!!

Well, well, well. I guess I found my answer to my curiosity, to why the russians where so interested in agricultural science!
Biological warfare, anybody?

Related link:
Dagens Nyheter (swedish)

[edit on 14-3-2006 by Ulvetann]