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Korean and Vietnam War Hero on the Iraq War

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posted on Jan, 14 2006 @ 09:50 PM
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MURTHA ON IRAQ:

He said what I've been saying for a long time now: Iraq has nothing to
do with the War on Terror. It is a Civil War.

Absolutely nothing.



Situation in Iraq Is Civil War
Rep. John Murtha

According to the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Second Edition,
the definition of a civil war is a "war between political factions or regions
within the same country." That is exactly what is going on in Iraq, not a
global war on terrorism, as the President continues to portray it.

93 percent of those fighting in Iraq are Iraqis. A very small percentage of
the fighting is being done by foreign fighters. Our troops are caught in
between the fighting. 80 percent of Iraqis want us out of there and 45 percent think it is justified to kill American troops.

Iraqis went to the polls in droves on December 15th and rejected the
secular, pro-democracy candidates and those who the Administration in
Washington propped up. Preliminary vote results indicate that Iyad Allawi,
the pro-American Prime Minister, received about 8 percent of the vote
and Ahmad Chalabi, Iraq's current Oil Minister and close associate of the
U.S. Iraq war planners, received less than 1 percent. According to General
Vines, the top operational commander in Iraq, "the vote is reported to be primarily along sectarian lines, which is not particularly heartening." The new government he said "must be a government by and for Iraqis, not sects."

The ethnic and religious strife in Iraq has been going on, not for
decades or centuries, but for millennia. These particular explosive hatreds and tensions will be there if our troops leave in six months, six years or six
decades. It is time to re-deploy our troops and to re-focus our attention on
the real threats posed by global terrorism.
www.huffingtonpost.com...
tml




posted on Jan, 14 2006 @ 10:32 PM
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I'm bumping this.


If this guy doesn't shut down some talking points, I don't know what or who does.



posted on Jan, 14 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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John Murtha has dishonored himself and his Corps with his remarks regarding the war in Iraq. He is welcome to his view, but he has earned the scorn of none other than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace. Congressman Murtha has abandoned his values and tarnished his integrity.


A Democratic congressman's remarks about the military are damaging to troop morale and to the Army's efforts to rebound from a recruiting slump, the nation's top general said Thursday.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was asked at a Pentagon news conference to comment on remarks by Rep. John Murtha, D- Pa., a Marine Corps veteran who has become a leading voice in Congress advocating an early withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. Pace was asked specifically about an ABC News interview this week in which Murtha, 73, said if he were eligible to join the military today he would not, nor would he expect others to join.

"That's damaging to recruiting," Pace said. "It's damaging to morale of the troops who are deployed, and it's damaging to the morale of their families who believe in what they are doing to serve this country."

breitbart.com



[edit on 2006/1/14 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jan, 14 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
John Murtha has dishonored himself and his Corps with his remarks regarding the war in Iraq. He is welcome to his view, but he has earned the scorn of none other than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace. Congressman Murtha has abandoned his values and tarnished his integrity.


That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard this year.


Murtha's putting this so-called administration to shame, brandishing the truth. And not a single soul innit can contradict him. Not one of them is near on his level.



posted on Jan, 14 2006 @ 11:23 PM
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He's damaging morale? I thought the IEDs and snipers were doing a fine job of that, with our without Murtha.

He's damaging recruitment? The war is damaging recruitment, and that should be no surprise.

He's damaging the morale of families who think their loved ones are serving their country honorably? No he's not. He didn't disparage the fighting men risking their lives, he simply spoke out about the decisions being made that put their lives at risk. The man is a hero, standing up and trying to help extract folks from that mess.

He's not a soldier anymore, his job isn't just to obey orders. He's trying to help the situation by injecting some sense into the dialogue surrounding the issue of the war.

Plain simple fact, we're wasting lives and money pursuing a hopeless dream for another nation, while our own stagnates and rots on the vine due to a lack of attention. The Iraqis will have peace when they work it out. In the meantime, let's try not to dissolve our own nation grabbing for their resources, K

Edit: Forgot to say, good post ECK!


[edit on 14-1-2006 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 12:44 AM
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The only ones who dishonor this nation are ones who follow blidnly and never voice their opinion or hold it in because its not "proper" according to the govt. This nation is SUPPOSED and I say again "supposed" to be based on freedom of speech and freedom of mind. Saying that someone is tarnishing themselves by saying what they think no matter who they are is not tarnishing to them but to those who think they should not be permitted to say what they want.
Everyone, uniform or not in uniform can voice their opinion, its their RIGHT. If you try and strip that then you might as well learn the Nazi nation anthem and wear a Nazi uniform around all say and say HEIL HITLER or HEIL bush whenever you see a poster or picture of either or a flag of either because thats all you propogate when you try and denouce others of their right to voice themselves.



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
MURTHA ON IRAQ:

He said what I've been saying for a long time now: Iraq has nothing to
do with the War on Terror. It is a Civil War.

Absolutely nothing.



That’s statement is so ridiculous though. That is why no one listens to people when they say such stupid things. How could Iraq NOT be a part of the war on terror? It's swarming with terrorists from all over the world!


As far as "shutting down talking points", he does nothing but use democrat talking points. So, he shuts down talking points with more talking points?

[edit on 15-1-2006 by Dronetek]



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by Dronetek
How could Iraq NOT be a part of the war on terror?

Firstly, to try and link the commencement of hostilities in Iraq to the presence of 'terrorist' forces there is not only misleading, but downright incorrect...but we get used to such tactics these days I suppose.


Originally posted by Dronetek
It's swarming with terrorists from all over the world!

Secondly, that is open to question. I have read sources that claim the vast majority of 'insurgents' are actually people who were previously members of the Iraqi armed forces.

[edit on 15-1-2006 by KhieuSamphan]

[edit on 15-1-2006 by KhieuSamphan]



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 07:38 AM
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Yes, I started a similar thread a week ago which was virtually ignored.
politics.abovetopsecret.com...

But now that the concerted Swift boat-like campaign against Murtha is in full swing, (questioning his purple hearts!!) more people are on the attack and ready to demonize him for speaking his opinion, which comes from education and experience.

In my opinion, someone with the experience and integrity of this man is worth listening to. If anyone has earned the right to say what he thinks about the military and war, it is a decorated 37-year Vietnam War Marine veteran.

I'm disappointed and saddened to see, once again, a childish, cry-baby attack on the integrity, honor and right to free speech that is so prevalent in this country today.

Throwing the Mud at Murtha



In a tactic reminiscent of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth assault on Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) during the 2004 presidential campaign, a conservative Web site yesterday quoted Murtha opponents as questioning the circumstances surrounding the awarding of his two Purple Hearts.


Bush Administration Launches Smear Campaign



The Bush Administration first attacked Rep. Murtha for his Iraq views by associating him with the filmmaker Michael Moore and Representative Jean Schmidt likened him to a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives.



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
He is welcome to his view, but he has earned the scorn of none other than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace.

Murtha's comments can't be too wide of the mark then!



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
He is welcome to his view, but he has earned the scorn of none other than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace.


My thinking on this is... What could we expect from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - the highest-ranking officer of the US military? I mean, what could we expect him to say to anyone who has anthing less than positive to say about the military situation we're in?

Pace was nominated by Bush. This war is Bush's baby. Does anyone think that perhaps Pace might have been 'urged' to make these negative remarks about Murtha to the Press?

Anyone on this conspiracy board?



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by Dronetek

That’s statement is so ridiculous though. That is why no one listens to people when they say such stupid things. How could Iraq NOT be a part of the war on terror? It's swarming with terrorists from all over the world!


As far as "shutting down talking points", he does nothing but use democrat talking points. So, he shuts down talking points with more talking points?

[edit on 15-1-2006 by Dronetek]


BS, Iraq had NOTHING todo with the WOT prior to the us's stupid move to invade.

Can you understand logic?

here we go.

WOT Kingpin Osama attacks USA
So USA in the name of WOT Attacks... IRAQ?

yeah, how you dont think thats stupid I dont know.. says alot about your statement doesnt it.

Iraq was in the crosshairs of the US government long before the WOT was declared.
so how is it then plausable to say its BECAUSE of the WOT.. what came first the chicken or the egg?

America has CREATED this terrorism HOT bed by invading . Plain and simple.

would you like me to say it a bit slower?



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 12:07 PM
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But now that the concerted Swift boat-like campaign against Murtha is in full swing, (questioning his purple hearts!!) more people are on the attack and ready to demonize him for speaking his opinion, which comes from education and experience.


Really, you shouldn't be surprised.

You've seen the tactics the pro-war crowd in here resorts to: anyone who thinks the Iraq War was a stupid mistake is "anti-American" or a "wimp" (try and say it to my face buddy) or an "appeaser". When your position is indefensable I guess you have to start with the name calling.

And so it is in the larger political reality - Murtha speaks the simple truths a certain crowd doesn't want to hear, so they go into attack mode.

Am I disappointed? Sure. But I am not at all surprised.



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 02:41 PM
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So when an ex-military man who served in Vietnam and Korea comes out against the Iraq war, he's a traitor too?

The only traitors to America are Bush and those who support his phony war.



[edit on 15-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 02:54 PM
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No matter what, the anti propaganda machine try to do to Murtha should be call in here a shame.

Because he sees the war in Iraq and the problems going on in that country and dare to tell the truth he is now a "traitor".

So like anything in this country under Bush administration is You are either with us or a traitor


Murtha has earned respect and he has served his country with honor something that Bush will never be able to accomplish in a million years.

I wonder what they will get Murtha with


Perhaps they will find out that he never actually served anywhere and that he bought his medals in E-Bay


The truth is that everything Murtha said is true, only people that are trying to hold to the mess that Iraq has become in hopes of a change are the ones in denial.

Iraq will be rule by sects and it will be an Islamic state.

Perhaps Bush would have saved a lot of lives if he just has done what his daddy did.

Taking Saddam would only bring an Islam state in that country after all the entire area is dominated by Islam.

Oh what Bush though that he was going to be able to turn everybody into Christians.

Murtha probably is laughing at all the people that is trying to deface him, he is old and he probably careless.

Spit on them Murtha.lol:



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 07:59 PM
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Alright, first steps to stopping terrorism world wide:
#1. Stop bombing people for no reason other than you dont like them or suspect them of something or nothing (bomb them for fun type people IE: Bush)
#2. Stop backing tyrants
#3. Stop assassinating people who want human rights in their nation
#4. Keep your bloody nose out of other peoples buisness unless they need help and offer something in return for aid.
#5. Stop bankrupting other nations
#6. Stop funding them (or training them IE: Osama)
#7. Stop backing someone who commits crimes (terrorism, etc.)
#8. Treat other nations people with dignity
#9. Stop starving the world to death or leeching money out of the poor and giving it to the rich (robin hood in reverse)
#10. Look at yourself first before saying someone else is the problem

There 10 easy steps to stoping terrorism and other world wide problems! Anymore if you dare challange govt. you get labeled un-american, anti-american, terrorist, towlhead, traitor, un-patriotic, etc. Whats amazing is that the people who use these words follow the same path as that of Nazi germany, as in they do the same thing. Whenever you challange them on their belief they loose control and go wacko on you and try and bring you down with death threats, law suits, and anything else they can conjure up. And yes I have had a "veteran" (who looked like a balooga whale) threaten me with a law suite for voicing my opinion on a forum once. I have had people threaten to do all sorts of things because they are unable to challange my will let alone get me to think twice about where I stand.
To defeat this enemy we must be UNITED and have the WILL TO SURVIVE, this is no longer a political war but one of survival. All that this nation once held dear is now being burnt alive or smashed to bits before our very eyes and the ones who do it laugh and spit on us as they do it. OUR will must be so great that it can move mountains, but its NOT. And THAT people is the problem, we need to stop looking at whats going on and griping but look at the problem then ask:
HOW CAN WE SOLVE THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL?

We CANNOT afford to sway or derail our train of thought as they have done to us by changing what we pay attention to and what we dont. We cannot look for a short term answer but one that will endure the test of time so that no future generation will be in the same mess as we are today. The only thing they will have to worry about is keeping these kinds of people from ever breathing one breath of air. The govt. is no longer our friend or protectorate, actualy it never really has been because we keep running into the same problems and the SAME brick wall. Its time to take out a sledge hammer and go to work or if that doesnt work then get some C-4 and blast the wall to bits and launch our attack on them. The only thing holding us back is those who pretend to be our friends but are nothing less than pacifists who are scared of their own shadow.
Its time to be brave, its time to do what scares us whatever that may be. We must realize we have to get along to defeat them or else we will be plunged into an enternal darkness of hopelessness and endless strife and fighting. To long have we fought with ourselves when we should be on the same side fighting a common foe.

The enemy has made their side and stand by it, now its our turn to forge ours and end this. We nor humanity can fight them as a broken, disorderly mob and that is what we are.

With every action you take, every word you speak, every thing you do on the whole, ask yourself is it worth it, have you achieved your goal or gotten closer to it, and have you bettered humanity.
-Vekar- Jan 15, 2006



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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Seems Walter Cronkite agrees with Murtha.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Congressman Murtha has abandoned his values and tarnished his integrity.


So let me get this straight. Murtha's a decorated war hero but he's abandoned his values and tarnished his integrity how exactly? Is it because his views don't meet yours? That's pretty arrogant if I do say so but typical given your obvious neo-con support. It must be hard to have to deal with the truth sometimes.


Originally posted by Dronetek

That’s statement is so ridiculous though. That is why no one listens to people when they say such stupid things. How could Iraq NOT be a part of the war on terror? It's swarming with terrorists from all over the world!


By your warped logic then the U.S. should be pounding on Saudi Arabia's doorstep too right? Afterall most of the 9/11 hijackers and OBL himself, I believe, are of Saudi origin? Why hasn't this administration done so if the war of terror is the true cause here. Your really grasping at straws Dronetek. You said it yourself 'no one listens to people when the say such stupid things'. Your reply demonstrated that very clearly.

brill



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 08:54 PM
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Veterans support Murtha, overwhelmingly I think. That's important to note, because America could very well be heading towards a military coup. The guy isn't some flake who has no idea what's going on. He's well-respected and well-liked, because he appears honest, sincere, and brave.

We'll see where it goes from here, but I suspect that Bush&Co.'s strangehold is increasingly tenuous. Cheney's in Egypt this week I think, if things keep going the way they have been, he might just elect to stay there. It's a friendlier climate.



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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What I hear from active Military Brass that I personally know - and these aren't pantywaists either - things are going straight into the crapper. Rush Limbaugh listening, Right wing, conservatives every single last one of them.
But, spin is spin, and all hell is breaking loose.

1) There aren't enough troops on the ground. They secure one town, then have to abandon it to secure the next town. The following week, they have return to the first town, and reclaim it. Every time they do that, our guys get injured, or worse, KIA.

2) Tactical military decisions are being made by Politicians. Administration officials who have no military experience. That's why there's a disconnect between what the administration "expects", and the actual reality of the situation.

Take it or leave it. That's what I was told by Officers who were there on the ground. Agree with the war, or don't agree with the war, but unless we solve those two problems, we simply cannot win in Iraq. Period.

As for the Murtha attacks. It's really easy to pick out the shills, here and elsewhere. The Kool Aid Drinkers buy into it, without question, as the gospel truth. They don't even rise to the level of political hack, because they're simply not sophisticated enough to recognize talking points when they hear them.

To the point, these attacks all originate from the same source, Cybercast News Service, and their senior writer - Marc Morano. Morano is the same man who mysteriously broke the Swift Boat story...to great success.

This is clearly a smear job. The story was fed to Morano by sources seeking to damage Murtha, and nobody's buying it. Anybody who can't see the tip of this particular spear IS a shill. Murtha's bulletproof. And attacking him is simply the same type of rhetoric that has distracted us from looking at the real ramifications this war since the beginning.







 
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