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NEWS: Russia to Evacuate its Officials from Iran.

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posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by subz
Hal, Russia is a bad guy for selling weapons to countries the United States is now fighting? Ok, then what does that make the US who sold Saddam his weapons in the 80's? What about the Taliban who got their weapons as hand-me-downs from the US funded Mujahedin? Does that make the US even more of a bad guy for selling weapons they then fight against 10 years or so later?

As I said earlier, the US is by no means innocent because they have also done the same. IMO, the US and Russian foreign policy over the last 40 years has been the cause of this whole WOT mess that we are in today. It is a remnant of the Cold War that we still have to deal with, and invading Iraq has only made matters worse. Now I hear the drums of wars starting up again but this time the target is Iran. Iran is not helping it's self by their actions in regard to trying to gain nuclear capability, and I believe they are trying to build nuclear weapons, because they see it as a way to defend themselves. Russia on the other hand, had to know before hand the West would not allow Iran to have a nuclear program, but they agreed to help anyway.

As I said before, I think all of the players involved are nuts, and if things don't change direction, it may start another war that would make Iraq look like a cakewalk.




posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 01:27 PM
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Remember that breaking the seal on the Uranium enrichment plant does not mean that Iran will be able to have a bomb tomorrow. It takes a couple of months to get the enrichment process going and then takes even longer to enrich enough Uranium to build a bomb, especially with limited capacity.

The BBC re-interated the following on January 12, 2006:


Iran 'years from nuclear bomb'

Iran has alarmed the international community by removing the seals at its nuclear fuel research sites - but experts say it is several years away from being capable of producing a nuclear bomb.

Frank Barnaby, consultant for the UK security think tank the Oxford Research Group, agrees that Iran does not yet have a critical number of centrifuges in place.

"They don't currently have enough centrifuges working - so far as we know - to produce significant amounts of highly-enriched uranium or even enriched uranium. They would need a lot more," he told the BBC News website.

Even if the plant is made fully operational, it is currently configured to produce low enriched uranium (LEU) rather than the weapons-grade highly-enriched uranium (HEU).

So given these limitations, the IISS believes it would take Iran at least a decade to produce enough HEU for a single nuclear weapon.

Dr Barnaby agrees.

"The CIA says 10 years to a bomb using highly enriched uranium and that is a reasonable and realistic figure in my opinion," he said.


Which makes the following paragraph from the Kommersant article very interesting:


Last Tuesday, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Lavrov and warned him that, after that, Washington would not wait for the next IAEA meeting in March, but would have the Iranian dossier transferred to the Security Council within the next few weeks.


So why the rush?

Whatever or whoever is behind the rhetoric (on both sides) which is inflaming support for a war over this issue, the timing is being driven by something else.

It's the Euro oil bourse: Petrodollar Warfare: Dollars, Euros and the Upcoming Iranian Oil Bourse.
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posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Excellent post Gools. Thanks.


This thread helps explain the situation:

PetroDollar Warfare





Ed: Duh. Sorry. Same link you posted. Oh well, seems to bear repeating.


[edit on 15-1-2006 by soficrow]



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Gools

So why the rush?

Whatever or whoever is behind the rhetoric (on both sides) which is inflaming support for a war over this issue, the timing is being driven by something else.
................


Do notice what the "experts" say in the article you linked.


"They don't currently have enough centrifuges working - so far as we know - to produce significant amounts of highly-enriched uranium or even enriched uranium. They would need a lot more," he told the BBC News website.



They are making an estimate with what they know, but remember that Iran had been working on a nuclear program in secret for 18 years. They have dug up tunnels and built installations inside these tunnels. Who knows how many of these installations exist?

Unless the Iranian regime was up front and showed these experts every single factory they built in secret in those 18 years, or afterward, i doubt they can say with certainty that "Iran is years from making a bomb."

I also see it a bit strange that the Iranian president would be so bold as to tell the world that "Israel needs to be wiped off the map." Who knows, maybe it is nothing more than just regular rethoric, but I am sure that these experts do not have all the information they need to proclaim that Iran is years from building the bomb.

BTW, it is Israel who wants to speed things up and who gave a timeframe for the UN and the U.S. to do something about it. Many people around the world are willing to take the risk of Iran being close to having a nuclear weapon, but I am certain the entire population of Israel is not so willing to take that risk.


[edit on 15-1-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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I posted this topic from this news source hours before it was posted here-read my thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I have posted some other news links that are an interesting read



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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ARNOMANNN

When we have breaking news we allow both an ATSNN thread as well as a forum thread.

Thanks for posting that link to the forum thread.
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posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow

This thread helps explain the situation:

PetroDollar Warfare



No.

I think you miss the point here.



Britain, France, Germany and the European Union told the United States, Russia and China they plan to call for an emergency meeting of the United Nation's nuclear watchdog to discuss Iran on February 2-3

Even Mohamed ElBaradei said Tehran



"might not seem to care, but if I say that I am not able to confirm the peaceful nature of that program after three years of intensive work, well, that's a conclusion that's going to reverberate ... around the world."

ElBaradei said he does not exclude the possibility that Iran may have another more secret nuclear weapons program that is separate from the activities the IAEA knows about.

"And if they have the nuclear material and they have a parallel weaponization program along the way, they are really not very far - a few months - from a weapon," he said.




posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 02:25 AM
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That is precisely the point the U.S. government has been trying to make. Their contention is that Iran does have a secret organization and a secret agenda and that it is nearing the point where it may deliver products to the Iranian government--both civilian and military. The Iranians have already demonstrated they are more than willing to lie about their nuclear plans and capabilities and have gone to considerable effort & expense to hide what they have been doing. I believe the situation is much more serious than news reports would have us believe.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
They are making an estimate with what they know, but remember that Iran had been working on a nuclear program in secret for 18 years. They have dug up tunnels and built installations inside these tunnels. Who knows how many of these installations exist?


That does sound a bit like the "highly dangerous" Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Iraq right? Oops, no WMD?? Who know like Santa Bush will have in storage for us know, maybe a report that Iran has already nukes?? Let loose the dogs of war!


Unless the Iranian regime was up front and showed these experts every single factory they built in secret in those 18 years, or afterward, i doubt they can say with certainty that "Iran is years from making a bomb."


Yes, how about the US does the same and shows the world what secret projects, which I'm sure are a lot more than what Iran could possibly afford, has been doing for the last 20 years.
Sorry, but truth is nobody shows their aces, you seem like you know about politics, you should know this well, you ask for the impossible.




I also see it a bit strange that the Iranian president would be so bold as to tell the world that "Israel needs to be wiped off the map." Who knows, maybe it is nothing more than just regular rethoric, but I am sure that these experts do not have all the information they need to proclaim that Iran is years from building the bomb.


As the US said the Soviet Union was an evil empire, and needed to be defeated, yet no nukes flew through the skies. And it wasn't just Reagan, Krushcev told "We will bury you" yet again, I don't recall ww3 happening.
Countries can launch empty threats all the time, like Bush, "you are either with me, or against me", but does not mean necessarily war.

We don't know the situation in Iran, if the President has total control over his army, or do the fanatical mullahs do, if so, he'd be expected to make such speeches, to satisfy a fanatical sector who might happen to control the army.


BTW, it is Israel who wants to speed things up and who gave a timeframe for the UN and the U.S. to do something about it. Many people around the world are willing to take the risk of Iran being close to having a nuclear weapon, but I am certain the entire population of Israel is not so willing to take that risk.


I agree partially on that, you got something right, Israel is the frontline should conflict happen, and it's hard to say who does Iran hate more, Israel or US.
Though we'd have to remember that all that hate had a beginning, it was not just fabricated from the ground up...but well, I don't know if here someone is going to listen to that.

The US already has lots of oil in Iraq, but securing Iran as well would give them an almost monopoly over it, yet it would be not about Iran's oil alone, but it's oil supply to China...what better way to slow an economy that's catching up with yours? Sabotage, cold war style...two birds, one stone



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili

That does sound a bit like the "highly dangerous" Weapons of Mass Destruction found in Iraq right? Oops, no WMD?? Who know like Santa Bush will have in storage for us know, maybe a report that Iran has already nukes?? Let loose the dogs of war!


Right...and i guess Saddam was planning to use empty chemical warheads, banned missiles, banned missile parts, tons of documents dealing with how to start and keep wmd programs, plus centrifuge parts needed to enrich uranium still being hidden by Iraqi scientists as they were told to do for so long, all of this just to help the poor people in Iraq....

This is not the tread to discuss this....


Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Yes, how about the US does the same and shows the world what secret projects, which I'm sure are a lot more than what Iran could possibly afford, has been doing for the last 20 years.
Sorry, but truth is nobody shows their aces, you seem like you know about politics, you should know this well, you ask for the impossible.


The truth is that Iran was/is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty...yet they broke that treaty, and the whole world anwsered to that not just the U.S.....


Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
As the US said the Soviet Union was an evil empire, and needed to be defeated, yet no nukes flew through the skies. And it wasn't just Reagan, Krushcev told "We will bury you" yet again, I don't recall ww3 happening.
Countries can launch empty threats all the time, like Bush, "you are either with me, or against me", but does not mean necessarily war.


The Kremlin always knew that they would be annihilated, hence neither side attacked the other, but the Iranian regime believes that once their 12th Imam comes back, they will survive and every wrong will be righted, and in order to get to this point they "must pave the way for the 12th imam by spreading chaos in the world"....



Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
We don't know the situation in Iran, if the President has total control over his army, or do the fanatical mullahs do, if so, he'd be expected to make such speeches, to satisfy a fanatical sector who might happen to control the army.


Yes we do know the situation of iran... The Iranian president is not the only one in power, and neither are the Mullahs the sole possesors of power in Iran, Khomeni is stil Supreme leader, but they all agree these days as to what they should do.



...................
The US already has lots of oil in Iraq, but securing Iran as well would give them an almost monopoly over it, yet it would be not about Iran's oil alone, but it's oil supply to China...what better way to slow an economy that's catching up with yours? Sabotage, cold war style...two birds, one stone


As another member has asked before...could you show us where are the tons and tons of "oil coming from Iraq"?..... I haven't seen it anywhere.... perhaps there was never oil in iraq.... it was all fantasies made up by the world governments....

[edit on 22-7-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 10:32 PM
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Strange how none of this has made it to the mainstream news....

As far as I can tell, up to today, the EU is still in negociations....



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Right...and i guess Saddam was planning to use empty chemical warheads, banned missiles, banned missile parts, tons of documents dealing with how to start and keep wmd programs, plus centrifuge parts needed to enrich uranium still being hidden by Iraqi scientists as they were told to do for so long, all of this just to help the poor people in Iraq....


You're right, it was just a comparison, and it's not the thread to discuss this, but since you insist...so they found "tons" of documents dealing with how to start and keep wmd programs, yet such "programs" where never found...mmm....and centrifuge parts, which I think in parts don't work much, still being hidden? maybe some proof to that, never heard of such thing, but I won't say it's a lie since I just might not heard...
And about the poor people in Iraq, who had one ugly dictator, and got it changed for another...you got it right, poor people...


Originally posted by Muaddib
The truth is that Iran was/is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty...yet they broke that treaty, and the whole world anwsered to that not just the U.S.....


Iran is a signatory state of the NPT and has recently as of 2006 resumed development of its uranium enrichment programme, ostensibly for its civilian nuclear energy programme, as it is entitled to do under the terms of the NPT.
Iran remains under investigation by the International Atomic Energy Agency, who have currently presented no evidence of a nuclear weapons programme.


Anything you'd like to add? I trust the IAEA on that more than Mr. Bush, sorry


Originally posted by Muaddib
The Kremlin always knew that they would be annihilated, hence neither side attacked the other, but the Iranian regime believes that once their 12th Imam comes back, they will survive and every wrong will be righted, and in order to get to this point they "must pave the way for the 12th imam by spreading chaos in the world"....



Iran's dominant "Twelver" sect believes this will be Mohammed ibn Hasan, regarded as the 12th Imam, or righteous descendant of the Prophet Mohammad.

He is said to have gone into "occlusion" in the ninth century, at the age of five. His return will be preceded by cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed. After a cataclysmic confrontation with evil and darkness, the Mahdi will lead the world to an era of universal peace.

This is similar to the Christian vision of the Apocalypse. Indeed, the Hidden Imam is expected to return in the company of Jesus.


Ok...so just because Christians believe in coming of chaos, plague and death, and then coming of Judgement Day, means Uk, France, and the US are looking forward to nuking the world? Sounds awfully similar to the 12 imam story, or not?


Originally posted by Muaddib
Yes we do know the situation of iran... The Iranian president is not the only one in power, and neither are the Mullahs the sole possesors of power in Iran, Khomeni is stil Supreme leader, but they all agree these days as to what they should do.


Ok, so I'm guessing you live in Tehran or something, for you seem to have deep insight towards Iranian internal policy and affairs, remarkable indeed, yet some people differ...


Iran's politics

Jun 2nd 2006
From Economist.com

Iran has two parallel and sometimes competing governments. On one side stands a nominally secular government led by the president; on the other is a hierarchy of religious conservatives led by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
As another member has asked before...could you show us where are the tons and tons of "oil coming from Iraq"?..... I haven't seen it anywhere.... perhaps there was never oil in iraq.... it was all fantasies made up by the world governments....


Oh, if you haven't is because you shouldn't not because you have to, and I'll explain just that for you, maybe we'll get to agree, here it goes:


New York Times, "Q&A: Who Controls Iraqi Oil?" From the Council on Foreign Relations

Who controls Iraqi oil?

The United States and Britain have some rights to use the oil to fund their occupation, international lawyers say, but Iraq's oil legally belongs to the Iraqi people.


All people here know how important legality of things are to the US...riiiight, let's go on.


The occupation government has the power to veto Iraqi oil plans, and decisions have presumably been made in cooperation with U.S. officials. Philip Carroll, the former president and chief executive officer of Shell Oil, has been serving as an adviser to the Iraqi oil ministry.


Ok, so the ocuppation forces do have power over Iraq's natural resources...mmm


"Immovable" government property, such as public buildings, real estate, and natural resources, cannot be appropriated or destroyed, but can be used by the occupying power, in a kind of trust, to defray the cost of the occupation.

Many international lawyers, quoting Article 49 of the Hague Regulations, say that the law of occupation does allow occupying powers to use a state's resources--and even tax its people--to pay for "the needs of the [occupying] army or of the administration of the territory in question."

It says that all oil proceeds will be deposited in a special account, the Development Fund for Iraq, to be administered by the authorities from the U.S.-led occupation government in consultation with the Iraqi interim administration. For now, the Iraqi interim administration consists of the 25-member Iraqi Governing Council. These proceeds are "to be used in a transparent manner"


I hope this clarifies about who controls oil in Iraq a bit for you, and lastly but not least


Originally posted by Muaddib
perhaps there was never oil in iraq.... it was all fantasies made up by the world governments....




Iraq has the world's second-largest proven oil reserves, totaling some 110 to 115 billion barrels. Iraq may have much more oil, however, as the country is largely unexplored due to years of war and sanctions. According to the U.S. Department of Energy, only 15 of the 73 discovered oil fields have been developed, and few deep wells have been drilled compared to Iraq's neighbors.


Well, if that's fantasy for you...what can I say...




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