Originally Posted by soficrow
Hmm. Think we need a quick history review here.
Back in 1989 or so, Russia went capitalist. The communist government was dismantled. Government assets like munitions were unprotected.
Government-employed nuclear physicists lost their jobs.
Yes perhaps we do need a history review here soficrow, even though it is not part of the topic.
Let's see how Communist Russia became Capitalist all of a sudden, and let's find out what the leaders of Russia since then have been doing and have
said about democracy in Russia.
I am not going to go over every detail of how since the 1900s every Russian communist leader and official proclaimed that they would conquer the
world, including the U.S., and make us accept the Communist agenda by infiltrating groups in the west that would appeal the naive people in the west
to accept their agenda of "world peace."
I will however post some of the most famous quotes by some of these Russian officials up to the present president in Russia.
Sometime in the 1920's Lenin said
First, we will take eastern Europe, then the masses of Asia, then we will encircle the United States which will be the last bastion of
capitalism. We will not have to attack. It will fall into our hands like an overripe fruit..."
Excerpted from.
(The Death Of A Nation - John A. Stormer - 1978 .- Liberty Bell Press,. Florissant, Missouri - U.S.A - Page 14).
Communist Tactics, Manuilski: War between Communism and Capitalism: War to the hilt between communism and capitalism is inevitable, Today, of course,
we are not strong enough to attack. Our time will come in 30 to 40 years. To win, we shall need the element of surprise. The western world will
have to be put to sleep. So we shall begin by launching the most spectacular peace movement on record. There shall be electrifying overtures and
unheard of concessions. The capitalist countries, stupid and decadent, will rejoice to cooperate in their own destruction. They will leap at another
chance to be friends. As soon as their guard is down, we shall smash them with our clenched fist. [Dimitry Manuilski, Lenin School of Political
Warfare, Moscow, 1930, Quoted in W. Cleon Skousen, The Naked Communist, from a letter by Joseph Z. Kornfeder to Dr. J. D. Bales.]
Excerpted from.
freedomkeys.com...
In 1948 Stalin said during meetings of the Kremlin's Inner Circle.
Comrades, it is imperative that we create an entirely new type of fighting force... The objective of this [undercover] fighting force is to
speed up the development of revolutionary situations... to bring about a breakdown of the capitalist system. This will lead to the revolutionary
overthrow of governments, and the establishment of Soviet states."
"...As soon as they undertake the undercover subverter work, they will sever all contact with the Communist Party... and dedicate themselves to
working for the Party by indirect methods. They will be called upon to join and operate within organizations and societies that are bourgeois and
opposed to communism ... They will create the impression they are opposed to the ideology of communism.
In 1949 the World Peace Council was formed.
The World Peace Council (or World Council of Peace) was formed in 1949 in order to promote peaceful coexistence and nuclear disarmament. It has
been alleged to be a front organization of Communist parties due to its advocacy of unilateral disarmament in western countries and the active
participation and funding of the council by the Soviet bloc as well as the leading role taken in the WPC by Communists such as Frédéric
Joliot-Curie, the WPC's founding president.
The WPC was especially active in those areas bordering U.S. military installations, in Western Europe, believed to house nuclear weapons. Following
the breakup of the Soviet Union the council has dwindled down to a small core group.
It was involved in many demonstrations and protests from the late 1940s to the late 1980s and attempted to lead the peace movement though it was
largely sidelined beginning in the 1960s by the New Left which distrusted the Soviet Union and its supporters in the "old left".
Excerpted from.
en.wikipedia.org...
Now let me jump to more recent events, because the list would grow too big to enumerate in this thread.
In June 1990, a whole year before the supposed "communist coup in Russia Mikhail Gorbachev stated.
I am now, just as I've always been, a convinced communist. It's useless and unproductive to deny the enormous and unique contribution of
Marx, Engels and Lenin to the history of social thought and to modern civilization as a whole. They turned the idea of socialism into a real force
for progress. They bear no responsibility for the distortions of that idea that occurred when it was put into practice. There were not only
subjective, but also objective reasons for this.
To be a communist, as I see it, means to not be afraid of what is new, to reject obedience to any dogma, to think independently, to submit one's
thoughts and plans of action to the test of morality and, through political action, to help working people realize their hopes and aspirations and
live up to their abilities. I believe that to be a communist today means first of all to be consistently democratic and to put universal human values
above everything else. It also means to be able to identify with the vital interests of the people and to understand the importance of the
international and global issues that define mankind's common destiny.
Excerpted from. "Mikhail Gorbachev's interview with Time Magazine"
gorbachev.booknear.com...
How convinient that within a year he changed from being a convinced Communist to a capitalist.
Another similar quote of his is.
“I am a Communist, a convinced Communist! For some that may be a fantasy. But to me it is my main goal.”
Excerpted from.
en.thinkexist.com
So you think that he "suddenly" decided to shed his Communist dogma?
The perpetrators of the Communist coup in 1991 were supposedly jailed, but were later released, at least we know that one of them has been doing
business with Iraq and was given a medal alongside some other Russian officials for helping Saddam's regime before the war started.
Back in the days if this coup was a real coup everyone of the perpetrators would have been executed, yet it appears that at least some of them have
remained with some power and are still living freely in Russia...
Something of note is that every since Gorbachev was in power, every past president in Russia nominated the next president.
Now, let's see what president Putin has said about the old days.
"The collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the century," Putin said. "For the Russian people, it became a
real drama. Tens of millions of our citizens and countrymen found themselves outside Russian territory. The epidemic of disintegration also spread to
Russia itself."
Excerpted from.
www.rferl.org
Apart from this there are no independent news in Russia, they are owned by the government. Corporations are being attacked and assimilated once more
to be part of the State, and the voting process for governors has been abolished by Putin, now only he and the Kremlin can name those who will be
governors in Russia.
Originally Posted by soficrow
The arms were sold by entrepreneurs; most ended up in the middle East. Many unemployed Russian phsyicists found work in the middle East.
It's capitalism in action boys. Not a conspiracy, just good business.
Is that so soficrow? then why have big corporations been attacked by the Kremlin and even some, the biggest ones have been assimilated to be part of
the state?
Why is there no independent media/tv channels in Russia anymore?
Why is it that pretty much everything that Russian defectors have been telling us has come true? from the fall of the Berlin wall to the dissolution
of the Communist regime and every other point in between.
Why is it that these Russian defectors have told us exactly every step the Kremlin would take since the 1960s?
mod edit to use external quote code, please review this link
mod edit to shorten links
[edit on 14-1-2006 by Muaddib]
[edit on 22-7-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]
The Russians did pretty much the same with Iraqi, selling them
weapons until the nth minute and when war was called backing off and acting all 'good guy'. 
