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Al-Qaida does not exist

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posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 09:09 AM
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but i thought bin laden was dead?

Osama bin Laden:
A dead nemesis perpetuated by the US government


(i know this isn't the most reputable source, but i really looked and couldn't find anything good enough for you guys... i guess you can read it and decide, or do your own research...maybe that should be a research topic, or something).




posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 09:20 AM
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Throughout the 80s he [Osama Bin Laden] was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.


~Robin Cook, former British Foreign Secretary



The whole Al-Qaida organization is a myth, there never was a real structure. The BBC documentery mentioned earlier is a must-see for everyone.

[edit on 1-28-2006 by Zion Mainframe]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by SwearBear
While the truth is that most of these organizations are not connected, thus al Qaeda as an international organized terrorist network does not exist.


Wrong on both counts. Osama was responsible for setting up the corporate structure of funding organizations, call it al qaida if you will, along with many smaller enterprises, really this was a business, utilizing the established billon dollar Laden construction company as a direct source of cash through newly created corporations. Of course the Laden's got wise to what was going on and were actively invovlved (you won't hear that on CNN) but soon cut off ol' Bin Laden. Hamas as you now see their political movement have for years been supporting logistically Jihad against Israel and US interest. Bin Laden copied various methods, or rather utilized resources through Hamas that are available, for Jihad has no country boundaries and established such in Egypt as well as Saudi Arabia as you know 911 was committed by Sauds, however, activated not by muslims.

Al quaida is simply a by word and it amuses me that many of you believe the propaganda that there is no structured terrorist cohesion - it gives you small peace thinking it is all a farce, yet pisses you off - simplistic control simple psy. We can't have the populace bashing in muslim heads on the corner now can we? Of course not. Jihad is real terrorism is just the result.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
The whole Al-Qaida organization is a myth, there never was a real structure. The BBC documentery mentioned earlier is a must-see for everyone.
[edit on 1-28-2006 by Zion Mainframe]


LOL you don't even know the structure. How ridiculous your very statement. Everyone forget the word "al qaida" rather do not forget the word "jihad" for this was formally declared, signed, and ratified against the US and UK and anyone who wishes to argue this fact is ignorant of such and voices a worthless opinion. So if we are going to discuss, let us discuss what is the structure, not the fiction of a perceived name. If not then the audience will be robbed of all reality and left to suckle the teets of BBC and CNN,

[edit on 28-1-2006 by vincere7]



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by vincere7
LOL you don't even know the structure. How ridiculous your very statement. Everyone forget the word "al qaida" rather do not forget the word "jihad" for this was formally declared, signed, and ratified against the US and UK and anyone who wishes to argue this fact is ignorant of such and voices a worthless opinion.

Why dont you watch that BBC documentary first? Serveral CIA analysts said there never as an organization!


Also, there isn't a jihad against the US and UK. Osama Bin Laden spoke out a fatwa for a jihad against the US & UK. But only muslim holy man and muslim institutions can issue fatwa's. This is why Bin Laden never got (and never will) get the support of millions of muslims.



[edit on 1-29-2006 by Zion Mainframe]



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 06:00 AM
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Bodrul, good point about the brand name thing. However you might reconsider changing your signiture because that primis is wrong.

Boxers exploit peace by modeling unpeaceful violence, hence causing more unrest.

I know that you do not want the muslim ideology associated with boxers.

best wishes.







Originally posted by bodrul
Al-Qaida is more like a brandname then a group.
since anyone can launch an attack and say they did it on part of Al-Qaida.


also anyone watch that documentary about Al-Qaida on the bbc a while back?



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
Also, there isn't a jihad against the US and UK. Osama Bin Laden spoke out a fatwa for a jihad against the US & UK. But only muslim holy man and muslim institutions can issue fatwa's. This is why Bin Laden never got (and never will) get the support of millions of muslims.
[edit on 1-29-2006 by Zion Mainframe]


Amazing how many are unaware that a Jihad has been declared against the U.S. and U.K. and ratified by prominent clerics, politicians, and terrorist organizations worldwide. Osama along with others declared Jihad before 911. Egypt's Jihad and Jamaa Islamiya armed outfits, Jordan's Mohammad's Army, Jammu and Kashmir's Ansar Movement and several other factions, including the AI-Muhajirun including Egyptian Jihad Group (Jamaat-ul-Jihad), Egyptian Armed Islamic Group (Gama'a al-Islamiya). The council of Mufti's in Russia have also called for Jihad agianst the US. Although the council plays down the call publically, Jihad is universally agreed upon by the Muslim community in Russia.

www.dailytimes.com.pk...
Karachi clerics call for jihad against US Tuesday, March 25, 2003 By Farhan Reza

KARACHI: Leaders of difference schools of thought and sects on Monday declared that jihad against the US had become necessary in the light of the current US policies.

Religious leaders from the Deobandi school of thought, which had a strong following in Afghanistan, said the jihad’s fatwa issued during the Afghan war “is still valid and directs us to wage jihad against the US”, Mufti Jamil Khan, a Deoband religious leader, told Daily Times. He said the fatwa “was approved by all scholars and it has not taken back yet”. “Thus there is no need of a new fatwa, as the old is still valid,” he added.

Other Deobandi leaders issued a joint statement supporting the endorsement of the validity of the ‘old fatwa’. The endorsement, which was issued by an organisation, Aalami Majilis-e-Tahaffuz-e-Khatm-e-Nubuwwat, said all scholars had agreed that there was no need of a new fatwa.

The joint statement issued by Sheikhul Hadith Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Dr Abdul Razzaq Iskander, principal of Jamia Uloom-e-Islamia Banori, Maulana Suleman Banori, Mufti Saeed Ahmed Jalalpuri, who heads the Aalami Majlis-e-Tahaffuz-e-Khatm-e-Nubuwwat.

“The war between America and the Muslims started many years ago. It has intensified after the September 11 incident when President Bush declared (his campaign in Afghanistan) a ‘crusade’,” the scholars said in a joint statement.

Distributed Jihad from the UK www.militantislammonitor.org...
In 1998 Al Muhajiroun spokesman Makbool Javaid was a signatory to a fatwa issued by Omar Bakri Mohammed declaring war on the US and the UK. One year before Javaid threatened a UK television station with a lawsuit if they aired a documentary about Omar Bakri Mohammed linking him to terrorist activitity.In 1996 Javaid was a featured speaker at an Al Muhajiroun "Rally Against Opression". The documentation below shows that Javaid is still promoting the Al Muhajioun Islamofacist ideology under the guise of 'civil rights'.

Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans
Published in Al-Quds al-'Arabi on Febuary 23, 1998

Statement below signed by Sheikh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin; Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the Islamic Group; Sheikh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, leader of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh

"Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said "I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but God is worshipped, God who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders." The Arabian Peninsula has never--since God made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas--been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies now spreading in it like locusts, consuming its riches and destroying its plantations. All this is happening at a time when nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

If some people have formerly debated the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it.

The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, still they are helpless. Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, in excess of 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

So now they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there.

The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al- Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said "As for the militant struggle, it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."


On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies--civilians and military--is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God."

This is in addition to the words of Almighty God "And why should ye not fight in the cause of God and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated and oppressed--women and children, whose cry is 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"

We -- with God's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.

Almighty God said "O ye who believe, give your response to God and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that God cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."

Almighty God also says "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of God, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For God hath power over all things."
Almighty God also says "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."


Signed, ratified, and agreed upon throughout the Islamic world.



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 11:08 PM
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Its amazing how people like vincere have no clue what they are talking about.

Who has declared the jihad? Terrorists? Al Queda? Al Queda was created by the CIA....

All these groups you talk about, they were created by Washington, too!

You think the USA doesnt have the power to completely obliterate terrorism? Of course it does, they have all the tools in the world.....but they dont. Why? Unless they want terrorism?

Who exactly has declared a jihad against us? Is defending yourself against illegal foreign occupation considered a jihad? If Mexico invaded USA, wouldnt you fight them?

The US and the UK continue to commit terror attacks against unarmed civilians in their occupied countries. It is Iraq general knowledge that theo ccupational forces are really behind the suicide attacks. Not to mention the illegal detainment and treatment of iraqis who have no links at all to terrorism. How many innocent people have died as a result of US air strikes? Over 50,000 of them! What was their crime? All you stupid war supporters out there.

Pakistan vents over US attack

Iraq: the devestation

US says bomb ''hit wrong house'' (there are a bit too many of these ''screw ups'')

Iraqis say civilians killed in US raids

Civilian victims of US bombings

When U.S. warplanes strafed [with AC-130 gunships] the farming village of Chowkar-Karez, 25 miles north of Kandahar on October 22-23rd, killing at least 93 civilians, a Pentagon official said, "the people there are dead because we wanted them dead." The reason? They sympathized with the Taliban. When asked about the Chowkar incident, Rumsfeld replied, "I cannot deal with that particular village."

This is ''fighting for peace and freedom''....my ass!

[edit on 29-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 11:59 PM
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The United States Government was WRONG to setup military bases in other countries and invade Iraq.

Al Queda was WRONG to have attacked the World Trade Center.

I am WRONG for spreading blame instead of living the greatest few years of my life that I have left.

I am WRONG in assuming that someone will not help me make that happen if I help them.

I am WRONG when I replace my boredom with violence.






Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter.




- The few, the proud, the extremists



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 06:38 AM
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Do a little more reserach and realize that the CIA did not create Al Qeada, It was born from the ashes of freedom fighters after the Afghanistan/Russian conflict ,which is eeirly similar to what Ithe situation in raq is becoming.
Al Qeada first gained media attention in the west in the late 90's, during the clinton administration. We bombed a few terror bases during that time, after a few bombings that were tied back to AQ.

Not believing is denial bordering on delusion....



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 07:16 AM
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Interesting that people keep quoting The Power of Nightmares to say that "Al Qaeda doesn't exist", because on its own that's a slightly misleading claim.

What the documentary actually says is this (in a Jason Burke quote):


The idea which is critical to the FBI¹s prosecution that bin Laden ran a coherent organisation with operatives and cells all around the world of which you could be a member is a myth. There is no Al Qaeda organisation. There is no international network with a leader, with cadres who will unquestioningly obey orders, with tentacles that stretch out to sleeper cells in America, in Africa, in Europe. That idea of a coherent, structured terrorist network with an organised capability simply does not exist.
www.durodie.net...


What Burke is saying is that there isn't a huge, James Bond villain-type organisation, with massive futuristic bunkers and defined structures between cells in different countries.

That's not the same as saying Al Qaeda don't exist at any level, though. In fact the program clearly states that there is a group we call Al Qaeda, clustered around bin Ladin, who carried out 9/11, and may inspire others to carry out other attacks, as well as possibly carrying out further attacks themselves. So the Power of Nightmares was saying the threat has been overplayed, but not that it doesn't exist at all.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by ashmok]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
The sooner we find a replacement for oil the better and we can send these warmongering apologist fruitcakes back to the darkages.



I wonder how people like NumberCruncher come to these retarded conclusions in matters like this... The US/UK have started all the recent wars, 9/11 was carried out by individuals not any specific nation. At least from the months you have been here you have finally made one comment with some sense, altho im sure your only puppeting Bush's state of the uniion speach. Im surpsied you didnt say "we need a replacement for this addiction of ours". Really numbercruncher try using your own brain sometime, instead of just spouting bullsh%t propaganda you hear from Bush or your braindead war mongering friends.

Almost every point these Bush supporters use for there arguments contradict earlier false statements they try make. 9/11 was either a terrorist act or an act of war, you cant have it both ways.



[edit on 2-2-2006 by HiddenReality]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by esdad71
Do a little more reserach and realize that the CIA did not create Al Qeada, It was born from the ashes of freedom fighters after the Afghanistan/Russian conflict ,which is eeirly similar to what Ithe situation in raq is becoming.
Al Qeada first gained media attention in the west in the late 90's, during the clinton administration. We bombed a few terror bases during that time, after a few bombings that were tied back to AQ.

Not believing is denial bordering on delusion....


esdad i agree with you mostly there, maybe AQ wasnt created by the US goverment in whole, but it was supported and nurtured by the US during AQs infancy. The US trained many to fight against the soviets, so AQ was in some way just a proxy for the US to fight USSR... If the US didnt plan 9/11 themselves with AQ, then they had knowledge of it, and decided to allow it just like pearl harbour.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 09:15 AM
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I will agree that the US provided Taliban funding and training during the soviet debacle, and Osama cut his teeth there and gained a following as a soldier and leader. It was shortly after that the idea of Al-qeada was created.

AQ has grown to such in the last 15 years proportion that terror groups will perform acts of terror in the 'name of' Al-qeada when not even connected as a sign of faith to the cause, or the jihad.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
Do a little more reserach and realize that the CIA did not create Al Qeada, It was born from the ashes of freedom fighters after the Afghanistan/Russian conflict ,which is eeirly similar to what Ithe situation in raq is becoming.
Al Qeada first gained media attention in the west in the late 90's, during the clinton administration. We bombed a few terror bases during that time, after a few bombings that were tied back to AQ.

Not believing is denial bordering on delusion....



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