AboveTopSecret.com is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by OmniPotential
I was in a discussion with ATS staff members, I didn't start a discussion with any of you meddlers. You started talking to me, you disagreed with me. You want me to say you guys are right to do you a favor? I don't care about wether you agree with me or not, but if you try to refute my claims, I will respond back.

That is obvious. Everyone and their uncle and his dog has showed you that you are wrong. You don't want to see it? Don't. Everyone else does. Now you are just wasting time and bandwidth.

WOW!!! That sounds like an answer from a shill!! How much are they paying you??!!!

Just joking Anytime I hear this all I can think of is that the govt doesnt even have to come on here and troll or shill.. many here are their own worst enemies and a live person monitoring and posting idiotic things isnt how Carnivore or packet sniffers work anyway! To be honest, we are our OWN cointelpro machine totally engineered and participated in by THE MEMBERS themselves. Its like starring in your own fantastical play. Every "shill" ive seen on here has been shilling or themselves or their "party" so they feel like they are a part of something larger than their little selves..good helots we have here sometimes.

Wouldn't it be amusing if when these "ATS IS CIA COINTELPRO GOVT FUNDED" threads popped up... if no one replied. That would be an indication of a mass awakening.

Oh and I used helot in place of serf.. its more fitting.. wonder how many think I meant harlot.

reply to post by Advantage


Totally agree. Many here are only here to push their own agenda. See the gun crap on the board right now. It's overwhelming. And how would anyone know if a staffer was a gov't shill? I work for the gov't. I just have a lot of time on my hands.

Let's also not forget to quote from the Internet Map's own about page from the programmer himself which directly relates to what SO has said:

Semantic Web

The map of the Internet is a photo shot of the global network as of end of 2011 (however, baloons show actual statistics from Alexa).

It encompasses over 350 thousand websites from 196 countries and all domain zones. Information about more than 2 million links between the websites has joined some of them together into topical clusters. As one might have expected, the largest clusters are formed by national websites, i.e. sites belonging to one country. For the sake of convenience, all websites relative to a certain country carry the same color.

For instance, the red zone at the top corresponds to Russian segment of the net, the yellow one on the left stands for the Chinese segment, the purple one on the right is Japanese, the large light-blue central one is the American segment, etc.

Importantly, clusters on the map are semantically charged, i.e. they join websites together according to their content. For example, a vast porno cluster can be seen between Brazil and Japan as well as a host of minor clusters uniting websites of the same field or similar purposes.

Pay particular attention to the last line in that quote.

And it's also based on 2011 data so there is the out of date thing as well.....

reply to post by Vasa Croe

Don't forget the part where I mention that you are basing your claim on an as yet unverified algorithm based on the creators sole inclusion of websites. This does not pertain the internet as a whole. You are drawing conclusions based on limited data and someone else's actual work, of which there is no documentation of the particular algorithm being used nor any ability to discern if the algorithm actually works as intended. Even in the programmer himself states:

I see, so after first claiming that, and acknowledging that nsa.gov is next to ATS because of different forms of traffic between them, you suddenly denied it was the traffic, and claimed it was based on semantic similarities(in line with SO), when I pointed out your sudden change of mind up to the point where it was so obvious that you were flipflopping, the problem suddenly became the algorithm itself, making the arrangement of sites unreliable.

What a joke.

It doesn't even matter if not all puny sites are included, the algorithm still put nsa.gov next to ATS, based on the traffic between them.

I guess the only thing to do to "debunk"my claims now is to question the reliability of the algorithm itself, making the whole internet map nothing more than a worthless collection of shiny dots.

Get out of here.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Advantage

 

Totally agree. Many here are only here to push their own agenda. See the gun crap on the board right now. It's overwhelming. And how would anyone know if a staffer was a gov't shill? I work for the gov't. I just have a lot of time on my hands.

I hear you. Im a 2nd proponent and a gun owner.. but I can NOT get behind some of the things I read on here. The husband works for the DoD.. has for yrs now and I know all about " time on hand". Its either he is being called in overnight for some microcosmic SHTF incident... or he is sending me angry grandpa youtubes in email. The funny part is.. and is applicable to the OP.. is when they are talking about sipr and nipr a few yrs ago within the whole wikileaks thing.. it was particularly hilarious. I gave the correct info concerning it and who had access to it.. and I was suddenly lying or a shill. It makes one wonder how much some "truthers" are concerned with the truth! I dont know, but it sure appears that some WANT to be monitored or embrace things that are completely untrue to prop up their fantasy life. IMO there is enough out there that is truly nefarious.. and that negates any reason to make things up to be paranoid about.

.... off to watch Trailer Park Boys. Im positive there is some hidden message in it concerning the NAU agenda. I just have to watch all of the seasons in a marathon AND the movies to figure it out.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

Let's also not forget to quote from the Internet Map's own about page from the programmer himself which directly relates to what SO has said:

This was already discussed and posted by me. I thought you read my replies?

The only reason it relates to what SO said, is because he read it and then thought it proved his point, yet he conveniently missed 4 other qoutes in that text that specifically mention that traffic and users switching between sites, is the data which the location of sites is based on.

Just like you did just now.

How can you take yourself seriously after you have said it is based on traffic yourself? I would feel like such a little b if I would have to act like I didn't just say what I said. I mean for god sakes, it is in writing for everyone to see.

Originally posted by OmniPotential
This was already discussed and posted by me. I thought you read my replies?

Why should we? It's obvious you don't read ours. This should have been put to bed 2 pages ago. Now you are just wasting everyone time.

ETA: BTW Advantage. The Trailer Park Boys, that's my home town. It's pretty accurate. Except the guns.

Originally posted by OmniPotential
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

Let's also not forget to quote from the Internet Map's own about page from the programmer himself which directly relates to what SO has said:

This was already discussed and posted by me. I thought you read my replies?

The only reason it relates to what SO said, is because he read it and then thought it proved his point, yet he conveniently missed 4 other qoutes in that text that specifically mention that traffic and users switching between sites, is the data which the location of sites is based on.

Just like you did just now.

How can you take yourself seriously after you have said it is based on traffic yourself? I would feel like such a little b if I would have to act like I didn't just say what I said. I mean for god sakes, it is in writing for everyone to see.

edit on 5-2-2013 by OmniPotential because: (no reason given)

I did read your replies hence the "let's not forget" part....you just seem to brush over facts to support your misdirected ideas....

It is as I said...a combo of both. My posts are all here unedited to go back through. I said it was SEO based and it is. It is a type of SEO based on semantics and linking. It is an as yet rarely utilized and somewhat unfounded type of search. It is not perfect and the Internet Map you keep harping on is far from all encompassing. If you can't grasp the fact that there is not a connection between the two sites except for SEO type data, which is stated as coming from Alexa which again is far from perfect then I am not sure I ever could explain it to you in a manner in which you will see.

Regardless of whether or not SO looked at the site and saw the term, it is used there and is clearly used because that is how the engine works according to the programmer himself. If you are going to cite a site as being a source for your claim yet not use the site's own creator, stating how the site works, as a source then how do you expect anyone to believe you know better than the programmer that actually created it?

Oh well....guess he will never read my reply.....banned.....darn and just when I was having fun.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


I had been following this thread and dishonest stuff is going on here.

It is as I said...a combo of both.

I read a post a page back that pointed out that initially, all your qoutes were about traffic between the sites. I don't see how you can deny that.

I did read your replies hence the "let's not forget" part....you just seem to brush over facts to support your misdirected ideas....

You said "Let's also not forget to quote from the Internet Map's own about page...", implying that the poster had not qouted from that page yet, wich in turn implies that you hadn't read all of his posts, because he actually did qoute it already.

You are just flat out lying here, and judging from your activity in this thread, this is your MO.

Regardless of whether or not SO looked at the site and saw the term, it is used there and is clearly used because that is how the engine works according to the programmer himself. If you are going to cite a site as being a source for your claim yet not use the site's own creator, stating how the site works, as a source then how do you expect anyone to believe you know better than the programmer that actually created it?

The programmer that also said this?

The Internet map is a bi-dimensional presentation of links between websites on the Internet. Every site is a circle on the map, and its size is determined by website traffic, the larger the amount of traffic, the bigger the circle. USERS SWITCHING between websites forms links, and the stronger the link, the closer the websites tend to arrange themselves to each other.

Also, an analogy can be drawn from quantum physics. In this case, a website is a physical body with a finite mass, a single user is the mass quantum – the much-spoken-about, yet-to-be-found Higgs’ boson, whereas the act of USER'S SWITCHING between sites is the gravitational quantum – the graviton, another hypothetical particle.

The map of the Internet is a photo shot of the global network as of end of 2011 (however, baloons show actual statistics from Alexa). It encompasses over 350 thousand websites from 196 countries and all domain zones. Information about more than 2 million LINKS between the websites has joined some of them together into topical clusters.

All these qoutes suggest that it is based on links and thus, traffic.

And it's also based on 2011 data so there is the out of date thing as well.....

If they were here in 2011 you can bet that they are still here in 2013.

If you can't grasp the fact that there is not a connection between the two sites except for SEO type data, which is stated as coming from Alexa which again is far from perfect then I am not sure I ever could explain it to you in a manner in which you will see.

Can you back up your claims? SEO is mentioned nowhere, and the only thing that is stated to come from Alexa, is the current statistics of individual websites when you click on their balloon, it has nothing to do with the internet map, or the way it is setup at all.

The map of the Internet is a photo shot of the global network as of end of 2011 (however, baloons show actual statistics from Alexa).

That was all they were saying with regards to Alexa. You obviously don't know what you are talking about , at all.

It is not perfect and the Internet Map you keep harping on is far from all encompassing.

It doesn't have to be all encompassing in this case, it encompasses NSA.gov and ATS, and places them next to each other based on the traffic between them.

Oh well....guess he will never read my reply.....banned.....darn and just when I was having fun.

I am pretty sure that a banning doesn't prevent a person from reading here.

Btw, I saw this guy's last two posts before they were removed, there was absolutely no T&C violation in them. Just truth.

They just make it look like he was a bad boy. Very sad. I don't know if anything was said in u2u, but based on those two removed posts, his banning is ridiculous and totally unwarranted.

reply to post by intrepid

Why should we? It's obvious you don't read ours.

I don't think he was talking to anyone but the poster he responded to.

Where are your manners?

reply to post by Hefficide


Just out of curiousity, do you think that government agencies are not present here, in any way, shape or form?

reply to post by Serfbuster


Explanation: Uhmmm?

Do you realize that ATS is a conspiracy based website and that NSA is probably a widely used search term when members and guests are on the website?

Do you also realize that ATS has over 1/4 of 1 million registered users of which 55% have posted on ATS?

Compared with say less than 100 mods /supermods/admin and the TAN Amigos combined, all of who are volunteers on this website!

Are you also aware that up to 5 x the number of members online at anyone time are guests viewing and searching ATS ... and probably searching for things like the NSA etc.?

All the above leads me to remember that I have on the odd occasion and contrary to my paranoia clicked on NSA weblinks.. whilst on ATS .. and as a member [and nothing more than a member] that would have inadvertantly increased the internet maps linkage between ATS and the NSA website .. which is a public and gov based website and is definately not a deepweb or even darknet website .. and NSA agents aren't stupid!

Now if just 1% of the ATS registered membership did that once only .. that would be 2500 linkages formed.

Now that would have to be equaled or beaten by the number of times individual mods etc. have done the same and they would have to each access the PUBLIC NSA website 25 times or more to generate the same number of linkages.

Personal Disclosure: When you can fully detail the entire data set ... and the signal to noise ratio ... then you may have a point. Until then all you have is conjecture and opinion!

Come back out from under your t[r]oll bridge when you have some hard data ok, because this soft approach isn't working to convince anybody since membership is continuing to increase and not decrease and that informs me that your posts are powerfully pathetic, woefully disrespectfull and quite possibly completely preposterous.

Engarde Enemy of ATS ... Come at me Bro!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


NASA is mentioned here on ATS many many times more often. Is nasa.gov next to ATS?

Do you also realize that ATS has over 1/4 of 1 million registered users of which 55% have posted on ATS? Compared with say less than 100 mods /supermods/admin and the TAN Amigos combined, all of who are volunteers on this website!

Relevant, how?

Are you also aware that up to 5 x the number of members online at anyone time are guests viewing and searching ATS ... and probably searching for things like the NSA etc.?

Like I said, other organisations are mentioned here much more oftn, and their sites don't appear next to ATS.

Also, the internet map is based on traffic between sites. And we all know that people are not visiting nsa.gov from here, en masse.

All the above leads me to remember that I have on the odd occasion and contrary to my paranoia clicked on NSA weblinks.. whilst on ATS .. and as a member [and nothing more than a member] that would have inadvertantly increased the internet maps linkage between ATS and the NSA website .. which is a public and gov based website and is definately not a deepweb or even darknet website .. and NSA agents aren't stupid! Now if just 1% of the ATS registered membership did that once only .. that would be 2500 linkages formed.

Nasa.gov must be on top of ATS then, but it isn't. You go find threads with links to nsa.gov, and I'll go look for threads with lkinks to nasa.gov, see who can find the most.

which is a public and gov based website and is definately not a deepweb or even darknet website .. and NSA agents aren't stupid!

It doesn't need to be, and the internet map came out of nowhere and is a new project, I don't think it was foreseen.

Come back out from under your t[r]oll bridge when you have some hard data ok, because this soft approach isn't working to convince anybody since membership is continuing to increase and not decrease and that informs me that your posts are powerfully pathetic, woefully disrespectfull and quite possibly completely preposterous.

Increase in quantity......

So the growth of the membership is an indicator of the lack of value of my comments?

That is quite the stretch. One would have to assume that every new member reads my comments and is capable of independant thought and is intelligent.

Taking you as the closest example, I think that is quite much to expect.

Even then, you assume that this info, if true, would make people not want to be a member here, which is disproven by the very fact that I am posting here.

It is possible that the data is unreliable, only sofar non of the arguments used actually show this.

Engarde Enemy of ATS ... Come at me Bro

If that's how you want to describe it....touche, douche.(t[r]oll bridge)

What does that make you, the ATS defense force?

Or just the resident pet?

There, there.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

Now if just 1% of the ATS registered membership did that once only .. that would be 2500 linkages formed. Now that would have to be equaled or beaten by the number of times individual mods etc. have done the same and they would have to each access the PUBLIC NSA website 25 times or more to generate the same number of linkages. Personal Disclosure: When you can fully detail the entire data set ... and the signal to noise ratio ... then you may have a point. Until then all you have is conjecture and opinion!

So you do agree that it is based on traffic and links, as opposed to the site's owner(Sceptic) some of his mods and other posters in this thread?

Thanks for at least supporting that notion, or are you going to change what you said now too?

reply to post by Serfbuster


Explanation: You obviously don't know ATS very well.

The number of members to number of mods is relevent in that it shows just how much extra work all the mods would have to do to create the same amount of accidental or even deliberate linkages.

Now I know for a FACT ... that all the mods are from all over the entire world and not all of them agree with each other.

This lessens the number of mods in the claimed shill factory ... and increases the amount of linkages they must make to just to equal the amount of accidental linkages and thats a lot of work for what reasons?

Since the NSA website is public and NSA agents most likely use another avenue to communicate that is far less public and far more secure.

And it could be that NSA itself and not TAN or the ATS mods is increasing traffic flow between the two websites for underhanded purposes.

And beyond ATS and NSA .. it could be ATS competitors who aren trying to sway and pervert the true state of affairs by increasing traffic between the two websites.

And notice, I only used 1% of the approximate total number of registered ATS members in my example ... the number of unregistered guests is 5 times that number at any one time and that puts the number of potential traffic on the website in the thousands of people online ATS at anyone time.

32 million seconds [rnded up aprox] in a yr and ATS is way older than my 2008 signup date.

From my personal nearly everyday experience since I joined up ... there has been a low tide of 200 members online at any one time and a high tide of 600 to 700 members ... and the tides are a daily and weekly occurances.

I shall use a base guestimate of 400 members online all the time and 5 x that number in unregistered guests = 2000 guests = 2400 people [on average] veiwing ATS everyday for a total of 32million seconds per yr approximately.

Now since it only takes 1 second to click on a link, that is 76,800,000,000 opportunities every yr for the membership base and guests to generate traffic between the 2 websites.

Lets say 1% of that is purely accidental linkages between the 2 websites, that = 768,000,000 possible accidenatl links per yr.

Say there was exactly 100 mods/admin/amigos etc. ... each one of them would have to personally link 7,680,000 times each to just equal the flow of traffic generated by accident.

That is equal to 88 nonstop days of just clicking, per mod, the NSA link 1 time per second every second over and over and over again without fail.

Assuming a standard 8hr workshift for NSA agents ... that triples the amount of days to 264 days over which they would have to work constantly 8hrs a day at just meeting and matching the number of accidental traffic links.

Now with 2 weeks sick leave and 1 month off per yer that leaves them about 1 and 2/3 months left for any other work.

Do you see now how impractical it would be for ATS staff to even consider doing it.

Personal Disclosure: So ... you need to bring me the full data set and how that data was collected and how that data was collated.

If you claims had any value they would clearly affect the number of members joining ATS regularly and would also affect ad revenue ... neither of which is being affected negetively very much at all by your posts revelations.

Hence your posts appear to have little or no value in regards to either the current ATS membership ... or its guests or its income streams.

Care to disclose why you even care about this issue?

reply to post by Serfbuster


I wondered how long it would be before you created another account and showed back up.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

my, my me doth think the lady doth protest too much...

you used the terms "wild rumors", "balanced" and "bandwagon"... according to my observations of sources like FOX news and the such, these are staples of disinfo 101.. identified by any and all observant of the concepts discussed here...
now,... IF you are to be hand in hand with the herd... I mean DEEP down... like.. being on ATS... and swaying said herd..

I have some very basic advice that should sound like the most obvious echo in an ocean of derp...
..... do not use terms such as these.. try terms like.. "convictions of fallacy" or "fully contemplated " etc...

the terms you use stick out like a sore thumb in an amateurish disinfo style.. that's oh so 2000's... this is a new decade.. UP your style.. upgrade your disinfo verbage to match a new age. people aren't buying it.

advance your skillset to mindwash the next generation of thinkers...

IF you're going to do your job properly that is...


and Skeptic Overlord.. just because you work for the NSA ... DOESN'T mean you're a bad person.

P.S. : I'd actually be a bit concerned if there wasn't a site like this manufactured by clandestine intelligence services.
The absence of such might cause my faith in the higher aspirations of human endeavor lessen quite a tad...