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AboveTopSecret.com is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation

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posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by st111
judiciary.senate.gov...

Particular interest should be paid to the end paragraphs relating to Cisco "Service Independent Intercept Architecture" , Verisign and CALEA.



Technology Can Support Particularity

It has been suggested that it is difficult or impossible for the government to isolate the communications of specific targets in networks using packet switching rather than circuit switching technology. However, partly as a result of the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (CALEA), a number of companies are offering technology to isolate packet communications for government surveillance. One company, for example, notes that its surveillance technology for broadband Internet service providers and ISPs “is highly flexible, utilizing either passive probes or active software functionality within the network nodes to filter out traffic of interest.” Cisco recently released its “Service Independent Intercept Architecture,” which uses existing network elements and offers an “integrated approach that limits the intercept activity to the router or gateway that is handling the target’s IP traffic and only activates an intercept when the target is accessing the network.” www.cisco.com... VeriSign is another company offering comprehensive services for interception:

VeriSign operates as a Trusted Third Party (TTP) assisting service providers in meeting the legal, technical and operational requirements for lawful assistance and legal interception as required by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA). VeriSign NetDiscovery Service is a managed service provides a reliable, end-to-end solution that can help accomplish compliance quickly on traditional and packet-based network deployments.

CALEA, it should be noted, requires service providers in the United States to have the technological ability to isolate the communications of a surveillance target to the exclusion of the communications of all other users of the network. It must be emphasized that FISA only applies to surveillance inside the United States, where the intelligence agencies have the willing and court-ordered cooperation of service providers. The vacuum cleaner approach is sometimes necessary overseas because the intelligence agencies do not have the cooperation of local service providers. The vacuum cleaner, let alone being unconstitutional, is not necessary inside the US. It is also noteworthy that the FBI reports that it does not have to use its notorious Carnivore, or DCS 1000, which was intended to isolate targeted IP communications, because commercially available software is able to do the job.

Technology is not a substitute for sound policy. In this case, however, the trend of technology seems to favor, not excuse, particularity.


There are lots of ways for "the government" to connect who is talking about what to whom... but I'm not sure how this specific testimony applies to ATS?




posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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For skeptic

www.serpo.org...

It has now been removed.If I see it on other sites soon I`ll post it.

It was a copy of an E - Mail to Bill Ryan owner of serpo.org from supposedly the ATS Admin, it contained various threats and references to ATS creative writers ability to counter threats from members.



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


There are lots of ways for "the government" to connect who is talking about what to whom... but I'm not sure how this specific testimony applies to ATS?


It shows a keen interest in locating and monitoring people.Obviously there not goin to say yes we run sites to do this such as ATS or others.The Secret stuff isn`t public record.We can only presume what if anything the govt is prepared to do.Having said that if they are so interested in monitoring in that way would make sense to go and investigate people who would be discussing items sensitive to the govt.
Imagine if a govt were planing NWO would make sense to id people who would spread the possibility of it happening and close them down before.ATS or others could well be Disinfo from the govt.It makes sense to alot of conspiracy buffs.



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 10:47 AM
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st111, i mean no disrespect, im genuinly curious about one thing and maybe by you giving me your opinion ill understand a bit more about people in general.

ok, its obvious you are interested in conspiracies, and your reasons are your own.

but i have two questions:

first, if ats WAS a conspiracy site, first of all do you think they'd let us speculate on it without the threads discussing it being closed and deleted?

secondly, if the subject of ats being cointel is being discussed so widely, why does anyone that think it is even bother posting here? are they not afraid that the govt will track their IP and start a file on them?

just curious, thanks



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by st111
It was a copy of an E - Mail to Bill Ryan owner of serpo.org from supposedly the ATS Admin, it contained various threats and references to ATS creative writers ability to counter threats from members.


It was a prank, by a former "Super Moderator", who was all too often caught up in pulling pranks. It was exposed as such here:
Source of threatening emails regarding Serpo has been discovered to be Netchicken
He ended up admitting the prank (no other choice), and he was since banned. (He had been previously demodded for similar antics.)

So... as you can see, it's completely unrealed to ATS admin or policy.



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Damocles


but i have two questions:

first, if ats WAS a conspiracy site, first of all do you think they'd let us speculate on it without the threads discussing it being closed and deleted?


I have no idea how the inner workings of the intel community work.So I don`t know.But it is a valid discussion.I don`t see any harm in discussing ATS being Intel any differently than 9/11 being govt orchestrated or NWO etc etc.



secondly, if the subject of ats being cointel is being discussed so widely, why does anyone that think it is even bother posting here? are they not afraid that the govt will track their IP and start a file on them?


I can only add that maybe there are a lot more conspiracy buffs not coming here or any other site due to the fact govt could monitor them.Without knowing who`s out there and how far there knowledge goes I don`t know, having said that neither does the govts.That could be a reason for running internet op`s.Maybe they don`t believe the govt would run such an operation.I can`t really answer though for other peoples opinions.



just curious, thanks


No probs



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

He ended up admitting the prank (no other choice), and he was since banned. (He had been previously demodded for similar antics.)

So... as you can see, it's completely unrealed to ATS admin or policy.


Thanxs for the reply.

With regards my opinion regarding Netchicken or the incident, I`m not prepared to get into here, except how did a member registed on the month of January 2006 manage to find out so much about a member two months later?when that banned person had been here for years and was a friend of the 3 amigos.

[edit on 6-2-2007 by st111]



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by st111
how did a member registed on the month of January 2006 manage to find out so much about a member two months later?when that banned person had been here for years and was a friend of the 3 amigos.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

Are you referring to the person who discovered the hoax? If so, he was doing a great deal of serpo-related research, and at that time, we had passed it off as a hoax and moved on, he continued digging. We also knew Netchicken's email was a hoax (didn't know it was him), and ignored it.

As for Netchicken being a "friend", I'm not sure that's a correct assumption.



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 10:47 PM
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The Thin Blue Line

Speaking as someone who's privy to the doings in Cosmic, the Trash Bin, et al, I think it's important to point out that once a member is invited into the "inner circle", it's no small thing.

But if you lie or abuse your power as a mod, there's no two ways about it: you're gone.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


Are you referring to the person who discovered the hoax? If so, he was doing a great deal of serpo-related research, and at that time, we had passed it off as a hoax and moved on, he continued digging. We also knew Netchicken's email was a hoax (didn't know it was him), and ignored it.


Yes I`m referring to the poster who started the thread you provided above.He registered in January 2006 two months before revealing Netchicky (sorry name makes me laugh).It was alot of work, and knowledge involved.He registered here at the time when the e mail was posted on the Signs web site.So you could think he had prior knowledge of the e mail`s.

Since beginning of last year there haven`t been any further updates or information regarding the E mails being hoax sent by a rogue ATS member.The owners last post has "The whole Serpo thing was shown to be a hoax cooked up by the Abovetopsecret 3 Amigos and Bill Ryan..... with the writing talents of Neocon Shyster Wayne Jaeschke.So Signs still believe that the ATS admin were behind Serpo.

I think this whole serpo things proves how the Internet can be used to reveal and bury information, fabrications and using creative writing talents to prove/disprove the truth and the lies.

One thing is for sure the internet is a useless tool for revealing secrets to the masses.This may well be due to govt control/running of conspiracy sites.It may well be due too owners wishing to discredit other sites.Commercial interest may well be the motivating force.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by st111
Since beginning of last year there haven`t been any further updates or information regarding the E mails being hoax sent by a rogue ATS member.The owners last post has "The whole Serpo thing was shown to be a hoax cooked up by the Abovetopsecret 3 Amigos and Bill Ryan..... with the writing talents of Neocon Shyster Wayne Jaeschke.So Signs still believe that the ATS admin were behind Serpo.


Okay, now I know where you got that from. It's been more than a year because the issue was thought to be long-dead.

The person involved became highly disgruntled when we contacted them because they were improperly using content of one of our members (as clearly stated by the Creative Commons copyright link on every post in this site), and we asked them to provide proper credit back to us. They refused. We informed their ISP, who disabled their hosting until the content was removed. Then they got nasty trying to dig up dirt on us.

The hoaxed emails from Netchicken posing as ATS admin (who again, admitted he did it as a prank) were believed by this person, which led to those claims.

There's lots of good information about the Serpo hoax here:
www.realityuncovered.com...

No one, other than the person you quoted, believes anyone involved with ATS had any hand in the Serpo story other than providing a platform for Bill Ryan as it began.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 09:30 PM
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DEFINITELY, YOU SAID IT MAN



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Okay, now I know where you got that from. It's been more than a year because the issue was thought to be long-dead.


Members on that site are still discussing ATS`s in various threads.I find it sad that sites would start flinging mud, jealousies etc etc etc.Whilst being run by different people with the same aim. Is it really that profitable running a conspiracy site to cause such feuding and defense.



Then they got nasty trying to dig up dirt on us.


That site owner has stated her experiences with the govt and openly states that the present govt is running Cointelpro type of operations that result in her site being attacked.Does this prove Cointelpro I don`t know but it`s interesting reading.Maybe there response is due to there believe ATS is run by the govt.I don`t now maybe she`s paranoid.But it is interesting.




There's lots of good information about the Serpo hoax here:
www.realityuncovered.com...


Thanxs for the link.



[edit on 8-2-2007 by st111]



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 01:04 PM
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ALL information is now being used for NWO. All sites like ATS are monitored. We are still living in a state that allows this to happen. They learn from sites like ATS. Know your enemy.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
I would humbly submit a thread that I started up a few months ago.
To Arms! To Arms A Call for all Americans! Time to overthrow the Goverment!
An analysis of how the Legislative as well as the Judicial arms of our goverment are no longer for the people of the US but is a goverment for the powerful by the powerful.
It is also a reminder to the US citizen that our Constituion calls for citizens to throw off such goverments and to replace it with one that does protect the citizen.


I second the motion. Any way we could get a thread started on this? Seriously. We need to start a petition. I'll sign it in blood, if needed. I'll travel to washington if needed. We as Ameicans have become lazy and have let this government run rampant for nearly a century. It's time to TAKE IT BACK!



posted on Mar, 22 2007 @ 09:38 AM
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I feel that I must advise you that the feds WILL come to see you over posts of this nature. It is still unlawful to advocate the violent overthrow of the U.S. Government. If you're not in the U.S, that's different, of course. They'll just have the C.I.A. look you up



posted on Apr, 24 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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ATS can exist because it does not put the truth all in one place. You have to search for it, aswell as connecting the dots. Whether it is cointelpro or not is another question...but thats the topic, so i guess i have to answer


Do i think it is? Yes, but only because i remind myself to trust no one when seeking the truth. I have nothing against the owners/runners of ATS, at all, as whatever the truth maybe, they are allowing people to discuss and put information out there! Any bad things that arise from this are surely undone by the fact that being able to discuss information is so important anyway!



posted on Apr, 26 2007 @ 02:37 PM
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006
AboveTopSecret.com Equals Government Disinfo

Or so it may appear, according to a new blog entry by Laura Knight-Jadczyk. I must admit that I've paid ATS a few visits, but I always stopped short of registering to post. I'm not sure why... it seems like a popular forum active in many subjects I find interesting, yet I always found the attitude of the moderators a little "off". I can't really put my finger on what it was, but it was enough to dissuade me from joining the forum.

Well, LJK's post really puts that feeling into perspective! Check this:

The very next thing that happened - within hours of writing the above - was that we received an email from Above Top Secret as follows:

Mark - mark@abovetopsecret.com From : USA wrote : I am disgusted by your accusation that AboveTopSecret.com, LLP is a "Government funded damage control outlet" I ask that you retract that lie.

My partners and I have spent the last several years building that site and have NEVER received a nickel from ANY government, never been asked to do ANYTHING for or by ANY government and NEVER WILL.

The fact we attract logical members who present THIER analysis and ask that other members treat them with COURTEOUSNESS and keep the discussion at an ADULT level sans flames and rediculous off topic commentary does NOT make us anything more or less than what we are. The number ONE destination on the internet to FREELY Deny Ignorance.

It is truly SAD that when a site allows ALL sides of an issue to be heard people like YOU who believe hook line and sinker there is a conspiracy where there may or may not be one, feel the need to falsely accuse us of being crooked. It makes me SICK and SAD for you.

You obviously haven't read the THOUSANDS of posts that actually SUPPORT your perspective on our site, no that would be too much work wouldn't it?

Much easier to cast a negative light upon our site in the hopes of getting yourself some attention isn't it?

Thoroughly disappointed in and DISGUSTED with YOU.

Springer...

Partner,

AboveTopSecret.com, LLP

Well well well..... touched a nerve, perhaps? Seriously, if ATS gets so much traffic that it makes them a "number one site on the internet", why care about what some other website says? Especially if your site claims to have such a pro-free-speech attitude? Are ATS concerned they will lose credibility with their "conspiracy community" if such statements are made? Why would a site that purports to discuss conspiracies even care about "credibility" anyway, considering that the phrase "conspiracy theory" has become such a perjorative term (no thanks to the mainstream media)? Seems like an over-reaction to me. But to continue:

Now, what would have happened if he had written to me and said: "Hey, I read your piece and even though we disagree on the subject, I would like to object to being labeled a disinfo source. I set up the site for the same reasons you have your site: to find the truth. I just don't see any evidence of what you are saying... " etc etc...

But, since he is not there to argue the evidence, but rather to promote the lies, he can't do that. And people like that only know one way to function: to seek to destroy the other views by ridicule, shaming, playing guilt cards, aggressive insults, etc. Even if they try to mask their behavior by platitudes about being adult and courteous, they belie it by their own words. In other words, they know the words, but not the music. They are blind to their own lack of courtesy to the truth.

Or, they are disinfo...

My money is on the latter.

This is the beginning of a very interesting article. After discussion of the recent situation, she then turns to the subject of ATS's mysterious founder - a certain "Simon Gray".

I leave it to the reader to draw their own conclusion about whether or not AboveTopSecret was setting itself up as a money making venture, or to be a "vacuum cleaner" operation. Of course, the two objectives are not mutually exclusive! One thing is certain, this "Simon Gray" was way too busy and energetic to be the playwright. Whoever it was, it looks like he's out to make a million bux one way or the other. This frenzied promotional activity for the past 7 years or so will become quite interesting when we consider "Christian Bailey," (coming up) so keep it in mind.

I would also suggest that the reader go to the webarchive and go back over the history of AboveTopSecret.com and notice that it was quite obviously set up to draw in alternative researchers from the very beginning. Why? Obvious answer is to vector ideas.

This makes sense to me. If you are a government wanting to keep track of "dissent" and "thinking outside the box", what better way than to create a free forum for people inclined to such things to communicate? You could set up all kinds of nifty analysis packages on the server to generate reports on who knows what, plus the agents themselves could (ever so subtley) "discourage" discussion which might threaten to reveal information contrary to the government's interests. The article then continues on to discuss some speculatory links between ATS and US propaganda agents involved in Iraq psy-ops.

So is this the real truth behind ATS? I'll leave that to the reader to decide, but it seems that LJK isn't the only one with suspicions.

How deep does the rabbit-hole go?

posted by Mr Whippy @ 01:43 5 comments
5 Comments:

At 3:15 AM, Anonymous said...

I just shared this comment on the, IN DEFENCE IF THE INNOCENT, site;

Anonymous said...

Please oh please, encourage all who care to shut down the Multi Billion Dollar International Child Sex Industry, to share this blog at Above Top Secret and keep hammering them to keep it alive.

It's supposed to be the Worlds Biggest Conspiracy site yet these stories are played down, buried and their posters attacked.

If you are a surviving victim sharing your own story you'll be attacked for being a crazy lier and worse.

When I complained to admin. that someone advocating 10 y.o. children should be able to have sex with adults if they wanted to, was against the law, the admin. said I had no valid complaint and refused to even 'warn' them, so I posted that that is a paedophile 'fishing' tactic for like minded people, and I was locked out and THEN the thread disappeared.

I was also attacked for refusing to say that THE TORTURE SACRIFICE OF A 3YO FOR UNLIMITED RICHES, is NOT wrong or evil.
I was accused of being 'judgemental' of other religions and cultures.

The site is just too big and popular to be left to keep growing. Everyone who cares about truth and justice for the voiceless innocent, should hammer ATS to death.

I put up a long hard fight, drip feeding the truth, politely and by the rules, posting on many subjects so as not be accused of an agenda (yes to ATS, alerting people to this evil is an "agenda" that means your opinion is bias or a lie)so in the end they just stuck a 'warn' tag on my posts and locked me out.

It's hard enough to find sites that support survivers without this worlds biggest conspiracy site attacking those who do dare to speak out. The clear message is, "SHUT UP OR ELSE!"

They are also very pro-secret society and occult and anti-Christian. To them, doing majic is wise, but doing what Christ asked is stupid. God doesn't exist, Lucifer is cool and NO Respected and Important people are involved in the Child Sex Trade.

The flow and tone of the site has actually made me vomit but I plugged on in the hope that some readers may see that ATS has the "agenda" of silencing the efforts of those who care, and survivers reading would see they are believed and supported.
........................
If you're interested I could post some links to prove their 'agenda of evil', or you could just go there and search threads tagged with keywords on this topic and see for yourselves how hard they work to keep this issue out of peoples awareness and understanding.

The mods. manipulate, with a heavy and constant hand (over 50 of them, all like minded and regularly posting their opinions and attacking those who differ)they do not moderate.

At 1:55 PM, Anonymous said...

AboveTopSecret is the biggest joke on the internet. They are TRUELY disinformation specialist. THEY ALLOW DISINFO AGENTS TO POST ON THEIR FORUMS AND SPREAD FALSE INFORMATION. There was an instance a guy was asking people to debunk his 911 "facts" in his thread. Another smart guy comes up and disproves half the stuff he says with pictures and well thought out points. The thread starter blurs out straight lies, appon lies, and the smart guy gets angry at the lies. The thread starter claimed that nobody was in the Pentagon during the 911 impact. The smart guy shows FACTS about 125 employees that were killed in teh Pentagon, and the thread starter has the nerve to deny it. How can you deny such a thing?? The smart guy proceeds to call the thread starter IGNORANT, meaning "he has lack of knownledge". The smart guy gets 2 WARNINGS from the moderators, and then later BANNED from the site. Just for telling someone he lacks knowledge.. THEN, after being banned one of the moderators says, "There will be no more insults, and anyone with the IGNORANCE (in italics) to disobey will be shorted out". So they ban someone for calling a person ignorant, then they proceed to use the same word as a wraning. To ice the cake, the well known "catch phrase" for ATS is "DENY IGNORANCE".

As the user is banned, the thread starter continues to spread his LIES and anyone who challanges him is ignored, or answered with a really stupid saying, "I won't believe it till you prove it". Once you prove it, he ignores it, and starts the whole circle process over.

ATS allows stupid, idiotic, childish, lost, little kids that don't have a slight clue what the heck they are talking about, to post on the forum, and spread complete lies.

Supposidly they have rules against posting knowingly false info, but most of this false info is ignored, because the moderators are to #ing stupid to know the difference. They are power hungry little wannabe internet police.

At 6:18 PM, Anonymous said...

Fear is the prime motivator behind the decisions to ban members from visiting other sites. How do I know? I was there from the beginning, having seen the machinations of the board at the highest levels over the issues of Abovetopsecret.com renegades over a number of years.

As a leadership we were scared that the dissatisfaction expressed by the disposessed would spread to the members on the board. As a result members were banned from interacting with the named other boards in case they were poisoned and lead astray. It was a fear of losing control, a fear of losing members, and most importantly, numbers.

Can you name one other board, just one, that so controls its members that they are banned from joining, participating or even reading other websites? Go on, just one. How about the members of Digg, Black Vault, Offtopic, or any other site. Have you ever seen such control exerted over members on any other board? Well have you?

And now we reach the crux of this little rumination. To maintain control of the board the leaders of ATS must control the thought lives of the members. Like East Germany, dissent is to be feared. And like East Germany, control is exerted through the leadership and through the staff, staff who individually are good people, but forced to follow the party line and adhere to the party rules. There were good people running the cattle trains in Nazi Germany as well.

StuffUCanUse.com has become ATS's newest watched website

Moderators Only » Updated List of Websites To Monitor for ATS Member Postings

At 11:29 PM, Anonymous said...

ATS is a Joke , They Ban anyone who dissagress to " Strongly " with there moderators , Im all sure its all part of some deal with Governemt departments or something to keep nutjobs all on one site !

At 4:42 AM, Anonymous said...

ATS is a joke it is Government funded, they use it as a big database on people..
Anyone who finds out or questions their motives, they ban!!
Everyone should beware and Boycott this site.
Peeps dont realize that they are the people we all despise that are running this site, this is how some groups in government find out what people are discussing on conspiracy sites on line..
They fill it with disinfo..
And operate like a dictatorship in their little clique groups..
If someone is getting near the truth they destroy the thread by arguing and ridicule, exactly like the Governments spooks do in everyday life..
You stand up for yourself and go against that then they ban you.
Springer and Skeptic Overlord are real Governmental working disinfo agents, that rule with an iron fist, just as bad as George Bush..
They are partly funded by the C.I.A. which says a lot..
They have a lot to answer for, and more people need to wake up..
They are the Ignorance that should be denied..
Be very careful on that site, i know of people who have had little visits from the Feds after a run in with those boys.
Watch your backs.


Post a Comment



posted on Apr, 26 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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I don't believe the government controls ATS, but I do believe the government monitors ATS to see what people are thinking. And I believe there are government disinfo agents who attempt to post here to throw people off from the truth. ATS gets my seal of approval. It's helped me open my eyes and see that we are being lied to and that anything is possible. The theories posted here may be true or they may be false... but what matters most is that people need to open their eyes and see that there is secrecy in the world that needs to be lifted.



posted on Apr, 26 2007 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Zoneraver
AboveTopSecret.com Equals Government Disinfo

Well lookie here... someone used Google and joined just to share these wonderful tidbits.




Originally posted by Zoneraver
Well, LJK's post really puts that feeling into perspective!

What you've discovered in that episode was some unfortunate "bad blood" due to our reasonably simple requests to try and get them to comply with our Creative Commons content deed. They modified a relatively popular piece of content (created a derivative work), and posted in a way that also conflicts with the deed (using it to sell books). In the spirit of collaborative exchange, we simply requested they provide proper attribution of the original piece, and remove the marketing... then they were more than welcome to keep it up, and we'd even link to it. However, it seems they were more interested in a fight, and things went downhill from there. That's too bad, I think they had some interesting perspective.



Originally posted by Zoneraver
StuffUCanUse.com has become ATS's newest watched website
Moderators Only » Updated List of Websites To Monitor for ATS Member Postings

Okay, -heh- that was a bit of fun gone bad. It seems the webmaster (banned from ATS for pranking in my name) was tracking the titles of pages that link to his site... so we made some up. The prankster apparently didn't tolerate being pranked.



Originally posted by Zoneraver
They are partly funded by the C.I.A. which says a lot..

Well... my credit card bills say otherwise.



It's unfortunate, but we end up pissing off people from time to time...

We've had terrible experiences with 9/11 truthers who can't fathom our "open" approach to examining conspiracies.

We've had rough times with passionate people who think they are banned for their ideas, when in fact they are banned for terrible behavior.

We've had some unfortunate episodes with former staff who disagree with the growth of this site.



Let me be clear... and hopefully this helps (though I doubt it)...

We're not funded by anything other than our credit cards (3 Amigos)... and we will never be funding by anyone or any firm connected in any way with any government agency of any type.

We never share our member data with anyone, it would be very serious if we did, as it would be against our clearly posted privacy policy... and in the US, it's a serious issue to break your privacy policy.

We never ban anyone for what they say (within the T&C)... never, ever. But we do ban people for how they say what they say.

If you run a whois on our domain, you see real information of real people... nothing is hidden.




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