AboveTopSecret.com is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation

Originally posted by Damocles

actually, his response that lead to your snipe of him there was in response to a question from ME directed to you actually...and oddly enough, youve yet to answer in the very forthright manner he did.

so...?

edit to add that after rereading my posts on this thread...youve avoided ALL of my questions. dont like the direct ones? yeah you do know thats a great disinfo tactic right? just avoid direct questions. interesting.

[edit on 15-12-2006 by Damocles]

I`m sorry please repeat any questions.

Now to get back to relevent disscussion.

September 2006 Reo.McKinley Introduces legislation to reopen the Cointelpro Hearings.

Mrs Mckinley has recently lost her seat in congress.And attempts to discredit her are on going.The chances the Bush govt or any other openly admitting to Cointelpro activities is very very very very very slim.

Since 9/11 and the introduction of a War Against Terrorism calls were made within govt to re introduce Cointelpro type operations.

I suspect that Cointelpro operations never stopped.Obviously since the Church committee findings the US would by continuing Cointelpro break congressional rules.

Hence nobody on here would ever be able to prove ATS was Cointelpro having that type of information would be very dangerous.

Also if ATS was part of an NSA or intel group operation there involvement would be guarded very very closely using all forms of defence.

You might also want to reference Carolyn Baker Phd.She may well be on a similar site to this but her research go`s far beyond anything found on ATS.I`m pointing to the fact that they openly research, by which they are people who can be traced unlike Skeptic and Simon.The fact that these sites posses very detailed operational activities on groups such as Cointelpro, whilst ATS disscussion tends to stay well away.

Of course there is no reference to any ATS activity being part of any govt op.Therefore the site isn`t out to slander any competition.It`s merely a history of Cointelpro and possible continuing activities by a group that would be buried deep within NSA operational activities.


www.house.gov...

[edit on 16-12-2006 by zeed85]

[edit on 16-12-2006 by zeed85]

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

3 posts from me in this thread that have ideas/questions or thoughts id like your views on.

Originally posted by zeed85
Of course there is no reference to any ATS activity being part of any govt op.Therefore the site isn`t out to slander any competition.It`s merely a history of Cointelpro and possible continuing activities by a group that would be buried deep within NSA operational activities.

You implied you have evidence, we'd like to see it.

If your only evidentiary claim is essentially the lack of evidence that ATS is NOT a counterintelligence operation, your credibility is laughable at best.

In fact, your specific tone and style exhibit the telltale clues of ham-handed counterintelligence ineptness.

Please, end the charade and either reveal your own motivations or your evidence.

Originally posted by zeed85
You might also want to reference Carolyn Baker Phd.She may well be on a similar site to this but her research go`s far beyond anything found on ATS.

Perhaps you would like to help us traverse your mysterious references by indicating which of these 589,000 search returns we should review?
www.google.com...

Originally posted by mister.old.school
If your only evidentiary claim is essentially the lack of evidence that ATS is NOT a counterintelligence operation, your credibility is laughable at best.

Please refer to the thread post l have written.As for credibility (ref off screen).

Thanxs for adding your contribution.Most enlightening

Originally posted by Damocles
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

3 posts from me in this thread that have ideas/questions or thoughts id like your views on.

First point l answered in the thread.Second a close friend of mine from uni was a member of MI5 and is now in Interpol.I have duel nationality between UK and Spain.I joined Guardia Civil after uni in the UK a few years later served in specialized unit GAL. Now on secondment to Interpol hopefully to work full time in future.Currently in Spain.Sorry unable to give references or proof as l like my job and would prefer to keep it.Third point in my last post l have stated that the US govt would be in violation of the Church committee.Reference Cointelpro.

Hope this answered your questions.Despite my actions towards Majic and a bit of scratching to the people here, l hope this thread will continue in a more adult like way.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by zeed85]

Originally posted by mister.old.school

Perhaps you would like to help us traverse your mysterious references by indicating which of these 589,000 search returns we should review?
www.google.com...

The ones relating to Cointelpro.No mystery.

This is an example of what would stop people suspecting ATS was govt run.

www.fromthewilderness.com...

People here are more open and frankly qualified to add constructive discussion.Whilst ATS prefers to add info from people without anything more to offer than there goggle searches.

Why am l here well because this is the web and l like some of the things on here, l also believe that ATS could be govt.

If Skeptic, Simon and the Admin choose to show themselves that would be a great step forward in killing off the rumors.Of course they don`t have too.If other sites can do it why would the Admin here choose not too.Is Simon/Skeptic so paranoid.Skeptic has voiced his intention to be noticed in the mainstream.Well that would require you to attend in public, hopefully not in your MR Incredible suit.

If Simon could find a way of attracting writers here as the wilderness does l think that could be a great leap for this site.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by zeed85]

Originally posted by zeed85

First point l answered in the thread.Second a close friend of mine from uni was a member of MI5 and is now in Interpol.Third ponit in my last post l have stated that the US govt would be in violation of the Church committee.Reference Cointelpro.

Hope this answered your questions.Disbite my actions towards Majic and a bit of scratching to the people here, l hope this thread will continue in a more adult like way.

thanks for the replies. i bolded a section in particular becuase this is the same type of answer thelibra gave when you took a shot at him. allow me to quote

quote: Originally posted by zeed85
Sorry for the misunderstanding.Great l`m glad you you can say you are not the best qualified person on this thread.

so, when you say you are "into" this stuff, you mean interested and not involved in. using vague wording and insinuation to make yourself appear more knowledgable and credible and then trying to use that credibility to snipe others is childish and hypocritical.

had you been clear from the get go, no problem. but then you state you want an adult conversation. you see the double standard here?

but im off my soapbox now.

ok, so you still think ats 'could' be cointelpro, fine, but ive asked and ill ask again, based on the fact that the content of this site is member driven, who cares if its a govt op. its obvious that the member would pick up on it and shred it to pieces.

about the amigos 'going public' seriously, i could post a pic of anyone and claim it was me. people who wnat to believe badly enough wont accept anything as proof anyway so why bother?

adn honestly i still think sites like 'ms knights' could just as easily be a cointelpro op even if not from the US...think about that...

/rant

Damo

Originally posted by Damocles
but also understand that there are those here that don't just 'understand' but have ACTUALLY seen that world....and we're still here on ats just enjoying the discussions.

Please share as much as you can.If your asking me too, its only fair that you bring something to the table.

no problem, it is only fair.

the 5 years as a combat engineer really dont count for much as i was simply a grunt.

the next 5 years working as a nuke/chem/bio defense specialist started me into the darkness so to speak. i was involved in working with the MI guys (military intelligence) very regularly so that i was fully briefed on current world situations and possible threats so i knew how to tailor the training i was conducting for a company of 180 soldiers. my job was to keep them alive if we were deployed and we were attacked with WMD.

i took a year off and then joined a WMD terrorism response team. the team was comprised largely (rangers, LRS etc) of guys that had left traditional spec ops to work on this for homeland defense. also had a larger intel section than most companies and most of our briefings started coming from DOJ, FBI, DIA, DTRA, NSA, CIA and so forth, the whole alphabet.

so working in CT i consider to be the 'gray' world vs teh black world but working with those agencies hand in hand the 'door' to the black world was open so to speak and while i never went through the door, i looked into it and worked with guys/gals that had come out to work with us.

ive posted many times i dont claim i come from the black world but my world was rather dark gray.

can i prove any of this? sure. will i? absolutly not. im not sending my info to anyone because frankly its really none of anyones business. my backround, while not what some demand as "expert" certainly gives me first hand insight into things like intel, demolitions, WMD, and terrorism.

but why should i have to prove anything? ive said before in other posts that i dont care if you (you in this and all cases being generic for anyone at all) believe my credentials, go by the facts i post. check them out, im certainly not going to post anything classified. if my data stands up does it matter if im who i claim to be? nope. if my data is wrong, call me on it. ive been mistaken before adn ive always said i would not only admit when im shown to be wrong but ill keep an open mind about other peoples opinions/facts.

hope that helps.

Originally posted by Damocles


can i prove any of this? sure. will i? absolutely not. I'm not sending my info to anyone because frankly its really none of anyones business. my back round, while not what some demand as "expert" certainly gives me first hand insight into things like Intel, demolitions, WMD, and terrorism.

Thanks for sharing.I`m not on here to pick holes in anybodies career or ask for personnel info.
My previous posts came from me at the time no prior agenda, sure afterwords you can psychoanalyst what my motivation is.I`m operational at the moment l post when l get chance.Maybe l don`t put as much thought into my answers as some members here.
Sure photo`s could be of anybody but other sites do put more facts out than this site

Originally posted by zeed85

Sure photo`s could be of anybody but other sites do put more facts out than this site

Facts of what? And how did you come to this conclusion?

Whether or not ATS is actual cointelpro will never be known.

However, it is admitted that spooks do visit the board, and there is no doubt in my mind that every registered member is creating their own psychological profile that will remain on your permenant record for the duration of your life.
Like Zeed said earlier, dont be surprised if something you posted on a 911 thread puts you on a no fly list sometime in the future.

I dont know if anybody here has ever had to take psych. evalutations for jobs, but they are becoming more popular every day.
By filling out a questionaire they can tell what type of employee you will be, and this information isnt just thrown in the garbage when they are done, it too goes on your permenant record.

Everything you post here is going on your permenant record to, whether you believe it or not.

If they can spot potential poor empoyees by having them answering a few questions, imagine how many potential criminals you could finger if you had a website where people are encouraged to post their wild conpiracy theories that they cant even talk about with family?
Now, you back that up with a points system that rewards posters for the amount of posts that they make, and then you have a system where thousands of individuals around the world will be posting every little thought, every detail of their lives, every opinion they have on everything from religion to politics.

Gee, if ATS ISNT cointelpro, then it is atleast a perfect example of what a
cointelpro operation in the information age should be.....

Originally posted by zeed85
This is an example of what would stop people suspecting ATS was govt run.
www.fromthewilderness.com...

You say a great deal, but understand very little it seems.

I was once very straight forward here on ATS, not hiding who I was. As a result, I was attacked and my family stalked by disgruntled banned members. I don't desire to open myself up to that again just yet.

Several long-standing members know of the episode.

How does this explain Simon Gray?

Well, it looks like we may never shake this monkey off our back.

Yes, to us who are working hard to enable any member with a wide-open, sophisticated, search-engine-optimized, and highly trafficed environment to put for their individual conspiracy theories, being called something like "COINTELPRO" is indeed an insult. But one that we're having to get used to.

It's a no-win situation...

The more we work hard to provide the ATS environment, the more we hear things like, "that's exactly what government ops would do".

If we step forward and expound on our own conspiracy theories, we hear claims that, "ATS's official position is X because Springer thinks it."

If we step back into the background and refrain from conspiracy speculation, we hear something like, "they're mysterious and hiding on purpose, they must be government COINTELPRO."

If we ban an idiot spamming the board with hate, we hear nonsense like, "ATS silenced me for saying something their handlers didn't like."

yadda-yadda-yadda

Zeed... ATS is unlike the example you posted in that we (Amigos) have phased away from involvement in topic posts (from reasons state above), and instead work hard to provide an environment where anyone else can post whatever they like. For anyone who really needs to discover who we are and what we're about, there are clear paths to do so.

One of the reasons we piss off some people in conspiracy circles is our agnostic stance... essentially the only clear stance on conspiracy theory you may see from us for some time. We (Amigos) tend to support all material presented here, even if it may disprove popularized conspiracy theories. We feel the search for truth should not begin with conclusions, but end with them. And for those who are attempting to profit from hasty conspiratorial conclusions, we can be seen as a threat. And, in the same heartbeat, we still support discussion and investigation into those theories that seem contrived, because there are many paths toward truth.

Another reason we piss people off was eluded to above as well... we kick people out for being jerks... many other sites in our topic areas don't do that, and some people just can't understand. As a result, those who have been asked to leave misunderstand the reasons and immediately conclude we've banned them for their ideas, when it was their attitude that got them in trouble.

I guess, in the end, the only real "evidence" that could indicate we're not "COINTELPRO" is the fact that, despite all the accusations about/against us, we're not changing anything. Real counterintelligence is a dynamic fluid, changing path as conditions warrant. If we were a "government operation", we'd be altering our management style in an effort to dissuade the detractors. We haven't, and we won't.

Yeah... I know... that's exactly what COINTELPRO would do.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


Yes, to us who are working hard to enable any member with a wide-open, sophisticated, search-engine-optimized, and highly trafficed environment to put for their individual conspiracy theories, being called something like "COINTELPRO" is indeed an insult. But one that we're having to get used to.

Please don`t misunderstand me, but the lack of true investigation that ATS Admin Carry's out here by either you Simon or the mods is suspect.You rely on contributions by your membership alone.OK thats how you want to run the site I`m not saying thats wrong and should be changed.It would be more plausible and help you get noticed if you did some pissing off within the govt up to a point.

If we step forward and expound on our own conspiracy theories, we hear claims that, "ATS's official position is X because Springer thinks it."

I think you are more thick skinned.As you stated people are judged here on there responses.

If we step back into the background and refrain from conspiracy speculation, we hear something like, "they're mysterious and hiding on purpose, they must be government COINTELPRO."

So contribute more, bring people that exist in the political/conspiracy world here to ATS there are plenty.David Icke would have been good, but maybe he wasn`t sure of ATS.

If we ban an idiot spamming the board with hate, we hear nonsense like, "ATS silenced me for saying something their handlers didn't like."

Who cares about idiots.There banned so they no longer have a voice.

Zeed... ATS is unlike the example you posted in that we (Amigos) have phased away from involvement in topic posts (from reasons state above)

Bring other people onto the site they obviously don`t care as much as you do.Why they don`t care as much as you I don`t know.People reading this and other site`s can make there own conclusions.

One of the reasons we piss off some people in conspiracy circles is our agnostic stance... essentially the only clear stance on conspiracy theory you may see from us for some time. We (Amigos) tend to support all material presented here, even if it may disprove popularized conspiracy theories.

So you would agree that if you were not Admin ATS could be an NSA Domestic Surveillance operation or Cointelpro or an unknown govt operation.

Another reason we piss people off was eluded to above as well... we kick people out for being jerks... many other sites in our topic areas don't do that, and some people just can't understand.

Even stupid jerks can sometimes point fingers in the right direction.I would disagree if a person is a jerk I`m sure people such as Majic,Intrepid etc etc etc would wind them up enough to cause problems.Reference the previous posts here.And the fact you send warnings deduct points,U2U excessive quoting and one liners.Guess I`m classed a a jerk then.How wrong you can be.

I guess until ATS changes it`s stance and takes a few chances with the US govt or becomes more open these types of comments will continue but hell this is a Dis-info Thread.

Thanks for the responses Skeptic.

Thanks also to Majic,Intrepid.

I can`t wait to see the day that ATS does move more toward the Mainstream media that would be enjoyable.



[edit on 17-12-2006 by zeed85]

Originally posted by zeed85
You rely on contributions by your membership alone.

Have you looked at some of my past contributions? To see all threads authored by any member, all you need to do is click on their username... here's a few of mine:
I Once Dreamed of Liberty (Op/Ed)
The Symphony of Conspiracies and Why It's Important to be "Anti-American" (Op/Ed)
The War Over "War Secrets": Why The NY Times Is Not Treasonous (Op/Ed)
DHS Pork - Evidence That War On Terrorism is a Sham? (Op/Ed)
Maintaining Liberty Is The Hardest Thing to Do (Op/Ed)
ATS: AT&T Narus Collaboration Sent Your Private Internet Communications to The NSA
Secret Diebold Software Patch Resulted in Republican Victories
Lunar Strip Mine in John Lear's Moon Photos?
MSNBC's Keith Olbermann blasts Bush and Fox News (video)
9/11 Scholar Punished For His Views
ATS 9/11 Conspiracy Survey Results
James H. Fetzer of Scholars for 9/11 Truth -- Special ATS Guest Speaker

If we step forward and expound on our own conspiracy theories, we hear claims that, "ATS's official position is X because Springer thinks it."

I think you are more thick skinned.As you stated people are judged here on there responses.

You misunderstand the rationale for such a position. I think my authorship history above indicates I'm not concerned with how I'm perceived... but I am increasingly concerned that my stance may taint someone else's impression that opinions contrary to mine might be frowned upon. Nothing could be further from the truth.

bring people that exist in the political/conspiracy world here to ATS

We are working on several methods to do just that... including elevating the awareness of existing members who provide exceptional material.

David Icke would have been good, but maybe he wasn`t sure of ATS.

His team came to us, we set up an extensive joint venture, and received confirmation he'd be participating in a dedicated forum here. For some reason, it never happened.

If we ban an idiot spamming the board with hate, we hear nonsense like, "ATS silenced me for saying something their handlers didn't like."

Who cares about idiots.There banned so they no longer have a voice.

So you would agree that if you were not Admin ATS could be an NSA Domestic Surveillance operation or Cointelpro or an unknown govt operation.

No... and only someone in the practice of twisting the meaning of others would draw such a conclusion from my post.

Even stupid jerks can sometimes point fingers in the right direction.I

Very true. But we built ATS on the simple premise of polite adult decorum. We don't suffer jerks and given our growth since enforcing rules of decorum, don't need to.

If someone has an important message they want to broadcast, ATS is an ideal place to do it. If it's important enough to them, they can be polite enough to let the world know. If they can't, then perhaps it wasn't that important.

Thank you SkepticOverlord for defending ATS in such magnificent forum that anyone with common sense would join us in standing and contributing with thunderous applause.

I am still amazed that some people believe that ATS, owners, staff, and select members are part of or party to COINTELPRO.

However, sometimes even the best efforts to convey the truth with facts, data, and human experience, ends up clouded in a shroud of auto-skepticism, denial and outright unfounded allegations.

Such is the mind of many conspiracy theorists.

[edit on 17-12-2006 by UM_Gazz]