AboveTopSecret.com is a Government COINTELPRO Disinformation Operation

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
What if there are government officials or organizations who do have an invested interest in ATS, but not directed towards disinformation, but rather the promotion of dialogue in the quest to find more "truth compatible" ideas and concepts? What if ATS is in fact a sight where members and contributors are unwittingly providing a "think tank" for governments with similiar agendas?

You have no idea how glad I am to see an actual lucid, thought-provoking post from you rather than your recent trips about phonetic re-wordings of the English language. This is the sort of thing I like to see from you. Sorry, I know it sounds like some sort of back-handed compliment, but I knew you could do better than the stuff like "secret = seek writ" and "traffic = see i fart", and was really beginning to worry about your sanity. Really. I'd thought you'd completely lost it. Thank you for returning to reality, and please stay here with the rest of us.

Now, in regards to your suggestion: absolutley. It's no secret that defense industries such as Lockheed Martin and Boeing have borrowed heavily from science fiction for inspiration, ideas, and in some cases, avenues of pursuit to a technology they might not otherwise have considered. The Apollo Program didn't just pop into existance one day right after someone thought it up, rather mysticism about the stars led to fascination, which lead to stories about space travel, and the written word carried the ideas through generation after generation until finally, after hundreds of years of trial and error, the technology existed to get us to that point.

The same applies to almost every single aspect of evolution of thought. An idea is written, others read it, they think about it, then they re-write it in their own words after mulling it over. If they have the means, they experiment upon it. Operations like Red Cell absolutley rely upon the creative power of the conspiracy theorist in order to prepare for Situation X.

Anyway... I guess this is my roundabout way of saying I agree, but that's not a bad thing.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Perhaps the ATS sight isn't exactly a disinformation sight. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is a sight that governments and other organizations do have an invested interest in, but not as a disinfo project, but rather the promotion of ATS being a means to an effective "Think Tank" which offers freely "Outside of the Box" brand of thinking that offers certain entities a fresh perspective, untainted by the corruption of wanting or needing too much power and control.

OR

maybe, and i KNOW this is going to sound crazy to some of the posters in this thread...and i mean no slight to esoteric by any means, but maybe just maybe this site was started by 3 guys with an interest in conspiracy/paranormal/political topics as a venue for other like minded individuals to come and discuss openly and to share ideas and get information....

or is that too far outside the box?

Originally posted by thelibra
I'd thought you'd completely lost it. Thank you for returning to reality, and please stay here with the rest of us.

First, i thank you for the compliment.

I would like to add:

I just don't think humanity can fix the current problems with the same mindset we had when we created them. I see no evidence how mankind has gone from the known to the unknown without choosing to look at things in a different light. Incidently (hopefully not too off topic) i have tens of thousands of examples of what it is i was/am trying to convey. And i am infinatley convinced i am not lying to you about it. Just one more example, if there is no truth seen in it by you, then kindly dissregard it, and write me off as questionably lucid:

MY is pronounced MI

HOLY is pronounced HOLE

put them together = MIHOLE

look at it in the reflection of the mirror:

and My Holy becomes MIHOLE became:

MIHOLE[mirror] ELOHIM

but, perhaps you are the sane one, and this is just coincidence 31,433 for me to ponder about.

edit to add:
either way, i will glady wager and willingly forfiet my life if there is no truth in what it is i am trying to share. However, perhaps a pre-requisite to being capable of comprehending is to know what is going on in a person's thought processes, aside from their "opinion".

i do thank for the input,
john


[edit on 12-12-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
either way, i will glady wager and willingly forfiet my life if there is no truth in what it is i am trying to share.

Oh, no, man, you aren't laying that kind of baggage on me.

You go with what you need to believe to get you to sleep at night, but when you wake up in the morning, don't be afraid to confront everything you believe in and be prepared to throw it all away if it crumbles in the face of reason. The conviction that you must die if your views are proven wrong is what leads to crazy people to do very bad things in the name of religion.

However, I don't want to derail the thread on your "truth", any more than I have already done, I'll take it to U2U and we can discuss it there, unless you have a thread you'd prefer it on.

Originally posted by Damocles
...maybe this site was started by 3 guys with an interest in conspiracy/paranormal/political topics as a venue for other like minded individuals to come and discuss openly and to share ideas and get information....

or is that too far outside the box?

I should probably clarify, I don't think ATS is anything other than exactly what you said here. I was just agreeing with the prospect that ATS could very easily be considered a "think tank" of ideas.

Personally, I think ATS has more computing power than any intelligence agency on Earth for sheer lack of confinement to "rules of subject matter". As a result of the free share of information, creativity, research, and speculation, ATS is capable of generating plots and connections no organized group on Earth could possibly think of, because they are so far removed from "the box".

We don't care if a politician gets offended, or if a favorite bit of subject matter is considered to be the popular object of ridicule, because usually neither our jobs nor our private lives at stake. Because of the level of anonymnity afforded by ATS, there is a certain trust that, if someone can present a well-supported argument, they really have nothing to lose. So even if 99.99% of the posts on ATS end up being nothing more than speculative tripe, there's still that one in 10,000 posts (or 100,000, or whatever), that ends up being a solid gold idea that bears further investigation. Those numbers are completely made up, btw, I have zero idea what the tripe-to-gold ratio is because even if I had that kind of godlike discernment in what did and did not constitute "truth", there's no way I could read even a fraction of the posts made in one day. So, for all I know the ratio is actually 10,000 gold to 1 tripe.

(/tangent)

Anyway, point is, the "blogosphere" (which incidentially ticks me off; it shoulda been the "forumosphere") is a well-recognized "free pool of social networking research", right at anyone's disposal. If I were any kind of organization that had a vested interest in one of the many subject matter on ATS, I would absolutley keep a researcher here to fish for ideas, either as a lurker or a poster. It just makes sense. You don't have to be a government, or a business even. You could be an author, an astronomer, a physicist, a cult leader, or even a bored tech support news junky... we all come here because we have a vested interest in the subject matter, and want to find out what other people think, or at the very least, what they think about what we think.

Does that make ATS a psy-op, or government cointel, or part of the NWO? No. Does it mean the originators and current staff are? No. Does it mean some of the above could be around? Sure. And frankly, they'd be stupid not to be.

Originally posted by thelibra

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
either way, i will glady wager and willingly forfiet my life if there is no truth in what it is i am trying to share.

Oh, no, man, you aren't laying that kind of baggage on me.

You go with what you need to believe to get you to sleep at night, but when you wake up in the morning, don't be afraid to confront everything you believe in and be prepared to throw it all away if it crumbles in the face of reason.

If I have a willingness to wager my life that there is truth in it, doesn't that show some level of resolve with regards to not allowing myself to be defined by the fears of others? I am not afraid to confront everything i believe in. But then again, everything i believe in is rooted in what i have learned through the observations of others.

However, I don't want to derail the thread on your "truth", any more than I have already done, I'll take it to U2U and we can discuss it there, unless you have a thread you'd prefer it on.

I've listed a few examples of why the subliminality of languages is viewed as a real thing by people in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I apologize to the members for my sidetrack off issue.

[edit on 12-12-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Majic

Actually, you're doing a great job of proving the opposite.

Majic
That`s the whole point.I`m not trying to prove anything here.This is a disscussion site.If l were a spook working behind the scenes or investigating govt op`s l wouldn`t be posting on here.It would infringe T&C`s.

I also don`t write intelectually (Mispeld on purpose, see even stupid sad computor geeks can act stupid and write sloppy if ones wishes)

My work requires a lot more of my intellect and attention.On here it`s down time.

I explain this to u as u obviously got somekinda fixcation with people who you decide to label as Trolls.

The whole point is that we shouldn't have to "play" anything.

You obviously have no understanding of Conspiricies.They are meant to be puzzles,lies,games,cheating,fabrication.

This is a conspiracy website, not a drama club -- although sometimes I wonder.

It`s also a place for all kind`s of people to gather and disscus similar interest`s and experiences.

It`s also place were people should be allowed within the T&C`s to write how they want without the Intellectual no it all`s starting there Troll fishing ego games.I could walk away from here now without missing anything.Could u Majic?

I do appreciate your making my case for me, however, so thanks for that, at least.

Thanks Majic no problem.You might believe what l write to be garbage.Somebody on the same level as me will not.Just cos we obviously are on different levels Majic doesn`t mean l not right, you just have to reach higher.

Now can we please stop with the competition to get the last word and bring Skeptic back as l could talk to him all day long seems like a genuine normal no personnel ego agenda person with only ATS interest.

Thanks CLH

Originally posted by thelibra

I should probably clarify, I don't think ATS is anything other than exactly what you said here. I was just agreeing with the prospect that ATS could very easily be considered a "think tank" of ideas.

"Think Tank".For what purpose.What would three guys do this for.

ATS is capable of generating plots and connections no organized group on Earth could possibly think of, because they are so far removed from "the box".

There is more to the world than internet sites.

Because of the level of anonymnity afforded by ATS, there is a certain trust that, if someone can present a well-supported argument, they really have nothing to lose. So even if 99.99% of the posts on ATS end up being nothing more than speculative tripe, there's still that one in 10,000 posts (or 100,000, or whatever), that ends up being a solid gold idea that bears further investigation.

The T&C`s prevent sold gold (facts) to be posted on here.Secrets are that.Conspirices are held by people within organisations.They not about to come here a whistle blow.

Come children grow up.I`m having to write the obvious which is gonna cause Majic to have a go at me.And l`m not trying to disrespect anybody here.Ats may well have been and still be run by 3 independent guys drawn together to produce and run ATS.

But anybody into govt black op`s could smell that ATS does have a bit of suspect odour.Sure some members may find that crazy.I still find mythical creatures vampires crazy, but l don`t disrespect and mock the way Majic has demonstrated (I mispell on purpose cos l can hear people in there heads oh no another male organ) in there threads.

If I were any kind of organization that had a vested interest in one of the many subject matter on ATS, I would absolutley keep a researcher here to fish for ideas, either as a lurker or a poster. It just makes sense.

Or use your IP to ID you and tag you as a possible problem person.Imagine your supprise in a few years when you try to board that plane and just because you made some foolish comments about govt and 9/11 they stop you leaving or you future employer with govt contracts decides you are not the best person for the job.

Does that make ATS a psy-op, or government cointel, or part of the NWO? No. Does it mean the originators and current staff are? No. Does it mean some of the above could be around? Sure. And frankly, they'd be stupid not to be.

Can you prove beyond your own intellect/ ideas/experience this statement.

The point l make is that the US govt have in the past set up fake organisations to put it simply "to cattle heard them together".This is a fact.Could ATS be a simple internet disscussion site.Look at the others what differs here to other sites on the net.

I may well be right.I my well be wrong.But unlike others posting on this thread I posses an open mind and can admit it could be either.I like others here cannot prove or disprove

Does this make ATS psy op`s ? Don`t know.
Does this make ATS Cointelpro or similar or part NWO ? Don`t know.
Does it mean staff are ? Don`t know.
Does it mean spooks here ? Don`t know

Zeed, I'm afraid you completely misunderstood my post. I'll try to clarify then...

Originally posted by zeed85

Originally posted by thelibra

I should probably clarify, I don't think ATS is anything other than exactly what you said here. I was just agreeing with the prospect that ATS could very easily be considered a "think tank" of ideas.

"Think Tank".For what purpose.

For any purpose one wanted. Maybe I'm a defense contractor looking for new ideas or information about what the competition is up to... why not visit ATS's weapons forum? Maybe I'm FBI working on a case file for some unexplained murders, why not visit ATS's cryptozoology section? Maybe I'm CIA looking for a way to overthrow a country's regime, why not visit ATS's political conspiracies forum. Or maybe I'm just a hobbyist astronomer that saw something wierd, why not visit ATS's UFO forum?

Originally posted by zeed85
What would three guys do this for.

What would they do what for? Are you asking why they'd set this site up? I dunno man, because they wanted to. Why do people create a myspace page? Do even a thousanth of the account holders there really NEED one? No. They did it cause they wanted to. Just because a site could be used to farm information doesn't mean it's original intent was anything other than the desire to put something out there that wasn't there before.

Originally posted by zeed85

ATS is capable of generating plots and connections no organized group on Earth could possibly think of, because they are so far removed from "the box".

There is more to the world than internet sites.

Yeah... and? The sky is also blue. The grass is green. The sun is...well, technically the sun is white, but it is always called "yellow" for some reason. Anyway, we can both sit and make blanket arbitrary statements of truth all day long. Did you have something worth adding to that statement because it neither invalidates my statement nor adds to the discussion.

Originally posted by zeed85
The T&C`s prevent sold gold (facts) to be posted on here.

Really? Show me where. There's gonna be a lot of people here in trouble if that's the case, including myself.

Originally posted by zeed85
Secrets are that.Conspirices are held by people within organisations.They not about to come here a whistle blow.

Sorry Zeed, but you're wrong there. Lots of people have come here blowing whistles on ATS about everything from the ridiculous to the believable. People don't always listen, but I can state firsthand I've whistled on here loudly many a time.

Originally posted by zeed85
Come children grow up.I`m having to write the obvious which is gonna cause Majic to have a go at me.And l`m not trying to disrespect anybody here.

Ummm... whom are you calling children, exactly, and why are they needing to grow up? And how do you justify "not trying to disrespect anybody" right after you refer to them as children and tell them to grow up?

I'd suggest that before you go starting something, you maybe take a few steps back and explore the site a bit more and get to know some more of the people here.

Originally posted by zeed85
But anybody into govt black op`s could smell that ATS does have a bit of suspect odour.

Meh... I'm "anybody" and been here over 2 years. I'm into government and black ops. I know exactly at least one group that watches this site, and I still don't think the Three Amigos have anything to do with them.

Originally posted by zeed85
(I mispell on purpose cos l can hear people in there heads oh no another male organ)

By the way, speaking of... I feel compelled to point out that "purposely mispelling" stuff is about as unique, individualistic, and attractive as getting your nose pierced. Bravo. Way to really surf the edge by making people only THINK you're uneducated and barely literate. That will really up your credibility level. Let me know how it works out for you.

Originally posted by zeed85
Or use your IP to ID you and tag you as a possible problem person.Imagine your supprise in a few years when you try to board that plane and just because you made some foolish comments about govt and 9/11 they stop you leaving or you future employer with govt contracts decides you are not the best person for the job.

Meh. It could happen, so what? If all writers failed to put pen to paper out of fear it one day might come back to bite them in the arse, then we would have never literature as we know it and science would have advanced at a snail's pace.

Obviously the more intelligent among us execute some degree of caution and discretion when posting on what might be "flag" topics.

Originally posted by zeed85

Does that make ATS a psy-op, or government cointel, or part of the NWO? No. Does it mean the originators and current staff are? No. Does it mean some of the above could be around? Sure. And frankly, they'd be stupid not to be.

Can you prove beyond your own intellect/ ideas/experience this statement.

I'm going to ignore the impossible wording of your sentence and just assume you meant "prove it".

I'm also going to assume you either don't have a very firm grasp of Engish, or that you didn't read the quote very carefully. I didn't say ATS absolutely is or is not anything. There is therefore nothing to prove. I was simply stating that ATS and its staff aren't neccessarily a psy-op, government cointel, or NWO.

Now, frankly, I believe rather firmly that they are not. Do I have proof? And frankly, there's no way anyone could satisfactorily "prove" it otherwise. I could have a signed affidavit from God, Bush, Negroponte, and Blair, along with live video footage of them swearing on a stack of any holy book you name, and all records of every intelligence agency on Earth, that ATS and its members were not a member of any such organization and there would STILL be people who would shrug and say "Well, of course they'd say that, that's not proof!"

So what you ask for, that a negative be absolutely proved, to satisfy people who could never believe the proof even if it were available, is a pointless act of contrariness.

Originally posted by zeed85
But unlike others posting on this thread I posses an open mind and can admit it could be either.I like others here cannot prove or disprove

And congratulations on your open mind. It's only open a wee crack though, because if you actually READ some of the other posts by members here you'd see the majority of the people posting in this thread have very open minds, they just don't buy into every little speculative piece of junk that crosses their screen, especially the ones who've been at ATS long enough to know better.

zeed, if i may ask, with all due respect, when you say people "into" black ops and imply that you have a knowledge and understanding beyond what some (majic for example) may have...

by "into" do you mean involvment or just that youve 'done your research' and 'understand' such things?

cuz if youve simply just done your reseach, i really hate to break it to you, but chances are youve found out nothing other than what theyve wanted you to (lol ok so im just feeding the paranoia here)

but also understand that there are those here that dont just 'understand' but have ACTUALLY seen that world....and we're still here on ats just enjoying the discussions.

Minimum Requirements

Originally posted by zeed85
I explain this to u as u obviously got somekinda fixcation with people who you decide to label as Trolls.

Actually, my earlier reference was to your behavior, which is literally by the book. I wouldn't even want to try to speculate about you as a person.

Although I think there has been a reasonable attempt to accommodate your desire to share your opinions here, your personal digs and self-aggrandizing lectures are becoming tiresome.

You can either honor the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use and stop sniping at other members, including myself, or you can leave, or you can be shown the door.

Please don't confuse courtesy with stupidity.

Originally posted by Damocles
zeed, if i may ask, with all due respect, when you say people "into" black ops and imply that you have a knowledge and understanding beyond what some (majic for example) may have...

by "into" do you mean involvment or just that youve 'done your research' and 'understand' such things?

Just as an aside, on my own answer where I said "I'm into black ops", I meant interested in them, not that I was involved in them. Your post made me realize my words could have been construed differently. Sorry if there was any confusion.

Originally posted by thelibra

Yeah... and? The sky is also blue. The grass is green. The sun is...well, technically the sun is white, but it is always called "yellow" for some reason. Anyway, we can both sit and make blanket arbitrary statements of truth all day long. Did you have something worth adding to that statement because it neither invalidates my statement nor adds to the discussion.

We are still learning the science behind the Sun.It might not be white, the sky isn`t blue it is actually clear.Hence the ability to see the earth from the Moon and not a blue ball.
My point is that there a groups of people who don`t use disscussion site but gather out of view.It sounds secret but not.People on the inside don`t gather on disscussion site they use them in there lunch breaks to poke fun at people such as Majic.

Really? Show me where. There's gonna be a lot of people here in trouble if that's the case, including myself.

It is against the T&C`s to post any govts found secret info.It results in said govt calling skeptic the post removed and the person band.Example can`t remember his ID on here but posting internal govt no that were not in the public domain for I think was a CIA office.WOW big secret he was probably some trainee for a telecoms company having some fun.

Sorry Zeed, but you're wrong there. Lots of people have come here blowing whistles on ATS about everything from the ridiculous to the believable. People don't always listen, but I can state firsthand I've whistled on here loudly many a time.

Please show me some govt secret then.

Ummm... whom are you calling children, exactly, and why are they needing to grow up? And how do you justify "not trying to disrespect anybody" right after you refer to them as children and tell them to grow up?

Sorry l applogise.Majic gets me all sweaty.Especially his bold heading on every paragraph.Makes me want to ram his keyboard down his throat and see how much his intellect would help his culo.

I'd suggest that before you go starting something, you maybe take a few steps back and explore the site a bit more and get to know some more of the people here.

My start date is no sign of a qualification on this site.It merely states when zeed registered.I was on ATS back in the early 1990`s.

Meh... I'm "anybody" and been here over 2 years. I'm into government and black ops. I know exactly at least one group that watches this site, and I still don't think the Three Amigos have anything to do with them.

Please don`t be all shy state there organisation.Some of my amigos in Interpol browse here.


[edit on 14-12-2006 by zeed85]

Originally posted by thelibra

By the way, speaking of... I feel compelled to point out that "purposely mispelling" stuff is about as unique, individualistic,

Damn you found out it`s cos i`m thick.

Wow how to rattle a few people on here.

My point is simply how can people assume by which l mean the ATS membership in general that ATS couldn`t be a govt run operation.

Simply that.

And l refer to previous threads over the years that have resulted in responses similar to Majic`s tone.Which l have to say are the same responses Mrs Knight has recieved.

This has to make you wounder why the defence.If it is so ridiculous why be guarded.Just brush it off.Ignore.Sorry the excuse it annoys and return sarcastic mocking analysis of the person is suspect of either unproffesionalism or proof of govt conditioning.

One thing l have noticed is once you would recieve this treatment form Skeptic,John Bull, sometimes Springer.There tone seems to have changed, now we get Mods such as Majic to do it.

Anyway last post on this thread as nobody is bringing any disscussion relevent on ATS possible being Cointelpro.Guess we`ll have to see if other sites come up with any proof.

Thanks for the time people.

Originally posted by zeed85
It is against the T&C`s to post any govts found secret info.

That's not correct.

It results in said govt calling skeptic the post removed and the person band.Example can`t remember his ID on here but posting internal govt no that were not in the public domain for I think was a CIA office.WOW big secret he was probably some trainee for a telecoms company having some fun.

Again, not correct. Why are you posting incorrect information?

I believe the situation you're referring to is the "Juniper" event in which a member by the nickname of "Ghost" was an employee of a firm under contract of the Defense Intelligence Agency. He was instructed to post a hoax here on ATS about a fake "Juniper Three" project that contained actual DIA phone numbers as a test of ATS's response to two points:
1) Would members call the numbers?
2) If asked to removed the numbers, would we?

The result:
A) We removed the direct-dial phone numbers to a high-ranking DIA special agent from the posts.
b) We banned the member for hoaxing, not posting classified info.

No member has ever been banned or otherwise penalized for posting information that may be considered classified, unless it was already known to be problematic. In one situation almost two years ago, a member uploaded several pictures of international undercover agents that had resulted in several servers owned by IndyMedia.org being seized. Given the timing and known high-volatility of the images, this appeared to be an attack on us as an effort to get ATS shut down (as we only had one server at the time)... so we removed the pictures and banned the member.

Makes me want to ram his keyboard down his throat and see how much his intellect would help his culo.

This has resulted in your warning. We insist on polite decorum here.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord



Again, not correct. Why are you posting incorrect information?

Wow that was quick.I`m sorry if l `m wrong.Don`t you have to follow your countries laws regarding official secrets acts, freedom of information and the Senates Select Committee on Intelligence finds and changes within the Intel Authority Bill for 2007.

I believe the situation you're referring to is the "Juniper" event in which a member by the nickname of "Ghost" was an employee of a firm under contract of the Defense Intelligence Agency. He was instructed to post a hoax here on ATS about a fake "Juniper Three" project that contained actual DIA phone numbers as a test of ATS's response to two points:
1) Would members call the numbers?
2) If asked to removed the numbers, would we?

The result:
A) We removed the direct-dial phone numbers to a high-ranking DIA special agent from the posts.
b) We banned the member for hoaxing, not posting classified info.

Glad you clarified.Couldn`t find it in the search as l didn`t have enough info.Thanks.

No member has ever been banned or otherwise penalized for posting information that may be considered classified,

Could you please post links to any classified posts that have been made on ATS.
ATS hasn`t posted any Classified Info.We both no that whilst it isn`t written in the Terms ATS will not post classified information it could result in you appearing before a federal grand jury.Unless you are part of the NSA Domestic Surveillance Operation.

This has resulted in your warning. We insist on polite decorum here.

Sorry.I`m one of those guys who lack the ability to insult and mock without being direct.I`m more of the hands on than desk puller.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by zeed85]

[edit on 14-12-2006 by zeed85]

zeed, if I may so bold as to ask, whay are you here? You've been around for 2 weeks, insulting this site and it's members:

Originally posted by zeed85

Having said that ATS is still a nice place to hang around and read, but in recent years has become a place for loons and idiots.

Baiting staff(ie: Majic), so what's the agenda?

Are YOU Cointelpro?

Originally posted by zeed85
Could you please post links to any classified posts that have been made on ATS.

In reality, I haven't the time to read as many posts as most members... so I'm currently unaware of anything specific.

Sorry.I`m one of those guys who lack the ability to insult and mock without being direct.

Then don't.

Ok point taken.


You may as well close this thread as it is starting to become pointless.

I`m here for fun.I like the site, aspects interest me.

[edit on 14-12-2006 by zeed85]

Originally posted by zeed85
You may as well close this thread as it is starting to become pointless.

Ooo, did I hit a nerve?