The "evil" oaths of the 33rd degree

There is a universal controversy involving the issue of spiritual authority. To resolve it, there can be no confusion, and no inversion of God. The embodiment of the spiritual authority was exemplified by the submissive will of Christ unto the cross, as a meaningful expression of the higher will.

Thus, any conscious and willful negation of that authority, or any attempt at a usurpation of it, will place the "practitioner" of any craft or progression to enlightenment at odds with the spirit of the universe, the first father of creation, and the "Abba" of Jesus own intimate relationship with that spirit of God.

I have seen enough in this thread to show a confusion regarding this issue.

It should be remembered that the work and power of God was made manifest through the Exodus from Egypt, where we see a greater power redering the lessor power impotent. Thus, with respect to Osiris, it is plain that God's will involved a differentiation from that system, and a covenent or a promise which culminated in the Christ entering the frame.

Furthermore, wasn't Osiris murdered, his body parts strewn everywhere, his penis lost in the Nile, possible eaten by a fish? In contrast, there was no "loss of integrity" through Jesus' death, and thus we see in Osiris a false resurreciton, which may have led to the practice of mumification, and in Jesus, the true resurrection power.

I would have to conclude that Masons, either knowingly or unknowingly, are at odds with the authority of God, as expressed in and through Jesus Christ.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

"It was the stone that was rejected by the builders, that became the keystone."

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
There is a universal controversy involving the issue of spiritual authority. To resolve it, there can be no confusion, and no inversion of God. The embodiment of the spiritual authority was exemplified by the submissive will of Christ unto the cross, as a meaningful expression of the higher will.

Thus, any conscious and willful negation of that authority, or any attempt at a usurpation of it, will place the "practitioner" of any craft or progression to enlightenment at odds with the spirit of the universe, the first father of creation, and the "Abba" of Jesus own intimate relationship with that spirit of God.

I have seen enough in this thread to show a confusion regarding this issue.

It should be remembered that the work and power of God was made manifest through the Exodus from Egypt, where we see a greater power redering the lessor power impotent. Thus, with respect to Osiris, it is plain that God's will involved a differentiation from that system, and a covenent or a promise which culminated in the Christ entering the frame.

Furthermore, wasn't Osiris murdered, his body parts strewn everywhere, his penis lost in the Nile, possible eaten by a fish? In contrast, there was no "loss of integrity" through Jesus' death, and thus we see in Osiris a false resurreciton, which may have led to the practice of mumification, and in Jesus, the true resurrection power.

I would have to conclude that Masons, either knowingly or unknowingly, are at odds with the authority of God, as expressed in and through Jesus Christ.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Um, I really don't see how your concluding sentence comes into this. If you had bothered to read the rituals you would know there is no Osiris, "willful negation of authority", or anything else.

Are you suggesting that the myth of Isis and Osiris, and Horus, is not employed anywhere in Freemasonry, or that the Eye of Horus isn't used?

And the issue of authority, and of a model of leadership, is always at issue. There is always an ideal to which we must aspire.

Question: What is the object or the definite purposes of Freemasonry, aside from good deeds and all that - is it not enlightenment, and the opening of the third eye, in order to bring the individual into contact with the ineffible mystery of God, and the light of life?

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Are you suggesting that the myth of Isis and Osiris, and Horus, is not employed anywhere in Freemasonry, or that the Eye of Horus isn't used?

And the issue of authority, and of a model of leadership, is always at issue. There is always an ideal to which we must aspire.

Question: What is the object or the definite purposes of Freemasonry, aside from good deeds and all that - is it not enlightenment, and the opening of the third eye, in order to bring the individual into contact with the ineffible mystery of God, and the light of life?

I am not suggesting, I know.

Egyptian deities are characters in one of the Scottish Rite's degrees, but the message of that degree is not that these deities are real. They are simply allegorical characters used to allow a candidate to consider how his life would be weighed in terms of the good he has done and the not so good things he has done. The allegorical lesson of that degree is that to be a good person is not measured by whether you follow the law - following the law is not enough.

No, there is no issue of authority.

The object of freemasonry is to allow the mason to explore masonic philosophy. There is no "end goal" there is no "third eye" and there is no attempt to bring them into contact with the "mystery of god." That is the realm of religion, and again and again freemasonry is not a religion. The light in freemasonry is always referred as the light of MASONRY and not light in general. Light in masonry is a symbol for knowledge.

It's not nearly as seductive as people seem to think.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

Well what of the writings of Pike referred to earlier in this thread. He clearly believed that Masonry was in fact Religious instruction.

And don't the 33 degrees correspond in some way with the 33 vertibrae, involving the rising snake of kundalini unto enlightenment ie: opening of the 3rd eye of the Pineal gland. That is what a Worshipful Master of a Lodge told me, as far as the 33 degrees go.

I think it's important to consider that you are a low level mason. Higher level masons I've noticed are not commenting.

Are there not roots of Freemasonry which involve the Egyptian helliocentric religious tradition, as well as the Jewish via the Temple of Soloman?

Also, I was wondering if Masons deny that the quotes attributed to Pike earlier in this thread are authentic..?

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Well what of the writings of Pike referred to earlier in this thread. He clearly believed that Masonry was in fact Religious instruction.

Albert Pike is not a spokesperson for freemasonry. Neither is Manly P. Hall, or any of the other authors that conspiracy theorists absolutely love quoting out of context. In fact if you actually READ Morals and Dogma, Pike says several times that freemasonry is not a religion and it is a sham to declare it so. He also says in the beginning of the book that his opinions are his own and he does not determine the meaning of freemasonry.

Anyone can write a book and proclaim anything they want. Lots of other 33rd degree masons have vehemently disagreed with pike and published lots of books. They are never quoted by anti-masons because that does not fit the agenda.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
And don't the 33 degrees correspond in some way with the 33 vertibrae, involving the rising snake of kundalini unto enlightenment ie: opening of the 3rd eye of the Pineal gland. That is what a Worshipful Master of a Lodge told me, as far as the 33 degrees go.

No, they do not. The mistake here is also assuming that freemasonry works like some pyramid, with 1st degree at the bottom and 33rd degree at the top. See my other thread: In Pictures: The Structure of Freemasonry to see what freemasonry's structure actually entails.

In short, there are 3 degrees of freemasonry. That's it. The end. People can and some do choose to join SIDE ORDERS, orders which are not upwards in movement but offer differing lessons building upon the first three degrees. The Scottish Rite is just one of these SIDE orders, but people obsess with them because they have high numbers of degrees.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I think it's important to consider that you are a low level mason. Higher level masons I've noticed are not commenting.

I think its important for you to know that there are no high level masons - thus why they are not commenting. There are also no low level masons. My nickname is a sarcastic remark on people - like you, apparently - who falsely believe in the myth of "high level" masons. They do not exist.

I also find it fascinating how again and again I am told what freemasonry "really" means by people who are not members, who tell me I cannot know because I am not a (mythical) high level mason. I am sure you can appreciate the sweet irony.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Are there not roots of Freemasonry which involve the Egyptian helliocentric religious tradition, as well as the Jewish via the Temple of Soloman?

There are no historical roots to any religion - period. Freemasonry in any form we would recognize goes back to about the 1400s, and its current incarnation was formed in 1717. The legends are allegorical and not based in historical fact. Much of the degrees - a great number, actually - involved King Solomon's temple because the allegory works very well for men who are seeking to improve themselves.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Also, I was wondering if Masons deny that the quotes attributed to Pike earlier in this thread are authentic..?

Not that I am aware of. Masons just know that Albert Pike is not some grand spokesperson for freemasonry and his works reflect ONLY his personal opinions and not that of the fraternity. They also know that Pike is routinely quoted out of context and the quotes spun to man things they do not mean - my favorite case of that is the infamous "lucifer" quote which actually states the direct opposite of what conspiracy theorists claim if you read the whole thing in context.

[edit on 3-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

So I am entirely mistaken to think that the ancient roots of Masonry can be traced back to the flood and the Tower of Babel? That the sons of Noah, who founded Egypt, are not considered the forerunners of the craft
- or for that matter that Freemasonry is based on a duality of good and evil, what some might consider the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Framing and context is everything, as I'm sure you and your Bretheren can appreciate and understand, and so I refer you back to my first post in this thread regarding the fundamental problem of a certain confusion with respect to the issue of a universal controversy involving spiritual authority, as evidenced or manifested athrough the Exodus from Egypt, and then again vias the entry of Christ through that Jewish framework. So to begin with, I am attempting to b ring to awareness the demarcation point and point of differentiation from the Egyptian Isis, Osiris, Horus, Seth tradition, to the Temple of Soloman, who's lines do not intersect.

I just don't think when we're dealing in such weighty matters that the issue of salvation, and self forgiveness can be avoided, and the central crux of my thesis would be simply this. We cannot engineer our own salvation. We cannot "get in" via the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which ends in a paradox, and it would seem in many cases, an inversion, and perhaps even a hijacking of spiritual authority, where the creature (in this case sacred geometrical infrastructure) becomes the object and not the Creator.

How do you know that the Architect, at the apex of your philosophical stucture, isn't an imposter?

The "Great Work" or the Magnum Opus, or the ages, was the work of Christ on the cross. His eye was single, his whole body was filled with light, and he maintained his intergrity through death as a meaningful suffering, and in so doing, nullified it, and replaced it, as the resurrection and the everylasting life, the truth, the reality, and the light of life.

Within the meaningful contextual framework of the Temple of Soloman, how can Jesus be bypassed as an authentic model of Civilized Leadership, both individually and globally, in favour of something decidedly Egyptian, and Babylonion in orientation.

Perhaps the builders of the Tower of Babel - are still at it to this day..?

Why are so many Masons here on this board of all places, simply to debunk so-called anti-Masons? I don't think so. I think it's because you would like to find out more about the things that you intuitively know you are a part of.

I'm a seeker of truth also. And I'm not anti-Mason, just Christian, but a Christian of a wholly rataional kind.

I would never discard Christ to take on a cloak placed upon me by someone without His Authority, bottom line. I fear for Masons. God loves Masons too.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
So I am entirely mistaken to think that the ancient roots of Masonry can be traced back to the flood and the Tower of Babel? That the sons of Noah, who founded Egypt, are not considered the forerunners of the craft
- or for that matter that Freemasonry is based on a duality of good and evil, what some might consider the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

There is no "universal meaning" of freemasonry. It means something different to every single mason. There is no valid historical connection beyond the 14th century - anything else is myth. The checkered floor is there as a reminder that man has free will and can choose between good and evil, but that's it. People of course can and do create other meanings, but those are not endorsed by the institution.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Framing and context is everything, as I'm sure you and your Bretheren can appreciate and understand, and so I refer you back to my first post in this thread regarding the fundamental problem of a certain confusion with respect to the issue of a universal controversy involving spiritual authority, as evidenced or manifested athrough the Exodus from Egypt, and then again vias the entry of Christ through that Jewish framework. So to begin with, I am attempting to b ring to awareness the demarcation point and point of differentiation from the Egyptian Isis, Osiris, Horus, Seth tradition, to the Temple of Soloman, who's lines do not intersect.

There is no confusion with "spiritual authority" in freemasonry. You believe there is something in freemasonry which does not exist. Freemasonry COMMANDS its members to be good members of their own religion, and it does so in the very first degree. There is no Isis, Osiris, Horus, or Seth in Freemasonry. Egyptian deities appear as allegorical characters in a side degree of the Scottish Rite. I am not in the York Rite, but given its historical development I would find it highly unlikely to find them in that Rite at all.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I just don't think when we're dealing in such weighty matters that the issue of salvation, and self forgiveness can be avoided, and the central crux of my thesis would be simply this. We cannot engineer our own salvation. We cannot "get in" via the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which ends in a paradox, and it would seem in many cases, an inversion, and perhaps even a hijacking of spiritual authority, where the creature (in this case sacred geometrical infrastructure) becomes the object and not the Creator.

Again, you believe Freemasonry is something that it is not. Freemasonry does not address salvation, never has and never will. That is because it is a secular fraternity, and it leaves matters of salvation to religion - to which, yet again, it orders its members to follow their own religion. That is why members of every religion are masons.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
How do you know that the Architect, at the apex of your philosophical stucture, isn't an imposter?

Easy - because the Great Architect of the Universe is not some separate individual deity, it is the supreme being that the mason already believes in. I am often perplexed how people come to believe in this myth that the GAOTU is somehow a separate god - the ritual says otherwise specifically and its not like God is never called by generic names outside of freemasonry.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
The "Great Work" or the Magnum Opus, or the ages, was the work of Christ on the cross. His eye was single, his whole body was filled with light, and he maintained his intergrity through death as a meaningful suffering, and in so doing, nullified it, and replaced it, as the resurrection and the everylasting life, the truth, the reality, and the light of life.

That's great. Freemasonry has no comment - because its not a religion and does not seek to make itself a religion or interfere in religion. Christian masons, including me, believe the same thing you do. Freemasonry does not conflict with that belief after all.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Within the meaningful contextual framework of the Temple of Soloman, how can Jesus be bypassed as an authentic model of Civilized Leadership, both individually and globally, in favour of something decidedly Egyptian, and Babylonion in orientation.

Yet again - you believe something about freemasonry that is not. Its not egyptian or babylonian. It proposes nor endorses any way to bypass anyones religion, in fact it specifically does the EXACT OPPOSITE.

I really don't think there is any excuse anymore for believing these myths about freemasonry. The ritual is easy to find. Read it. You will find its quite different from what you think it is. You envision some diabolical plot to gain salvation, when in reality it is a secular fraternity that is not a religion and does not concern itself with salvation or any other matter that concerns religion.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Why are so many Masons here on this board of all places, simply to debunk so-called anti-Masons? I don't think so. I think it's because you would like to find out more about the things that you intuitively know you are a part of.

It is the absolute height of arrogance for you to tell me why I or anyone else is "really" here. You know the truth but you do not want to grasp it because its much simpler than you'd like to believe - I am here to debunk people like you. Because, quite frankly, you are spreading a ignorance that must be responded to.

I don't even believe in 99% of the stuff posted on this board - so nice try but there is nothing here that I "intuitively" know I am a part of. I am on the fence regarding the existence of UFO's but everything else on here that comes to mind I believe is 100% false.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I'm a seeker of truth also. And I'm not anti-Mason, just Christian, but a Christian of a wholly rataional kind.

I'm sorry, but your statements reveal your true intentions. For a truth seeker you sure haven't bothered to do even the smallest bit of research on the things that you speak authoritatively on. What you believe isn't rational at all when it comes to freemasonry.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I would never discard Christ to take on a cloak placed upon me by someone without His Authority, bottom line. I fear for Masons. God loves Masons too.

How fortunate for you it is then that freemasony places no cloaks on anyone. I fear for people like you, who are so concerned with illusionary ideas about freemasonry that they lose all sight of reality and the quite real evil that exists in this world. I am sure God will forgive you for spending time casting aspersions on people who want nothing more than to meet as a secular fraternity and wish to study some philosophy, but just because He will doesn't mean you should continue on with it.




[edit on 3-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

You can call me crazy if you like, but somewhere deep within, maybe even locaated in the Pineal Gland of all places, there is a throneroom, a great palace if you will. And yes, there is a great struggle to get to the light, and be illuminated by it, I understand that, been there done that got the t-shirt as they say, and when you come up against the greatest mysteries, you hit a point where it CAN become VERY confusing. For me, from my point of view or perspective, it is VITALLY important, that the seat of the soul, the rider of my horse (there's always a bit in the mouth), is the actual living spirit of God, and that I am not getting beat in the process of working through a series of puzzles, where the dealer could very well be dealing a rigged game, if you know what I mean. Our throne is to be occupied by only ONE God, and he is not dualistic, or God would be a house divided - do you see where I'm coming from? And so I take a good look at Christ, his character, his model, his great work, and there I just KNOW that I'm safe, not because "they" told me so, but because it's the only rational way to approach the underlying problem of the duality of good and evil. In Him the paradox is resolved, the simplicity on the other side of complexity revealed, and it's a place of peace, and everlasting protection, as well as a type of cosmic clamshell of a spiritual transformation, and there is no controversy, and no attack made, or which is possible, therein.

I strongly suspect that Masons place themselves unknowingly in GRAVE jeopardy, and that they should look at Pike, Crowley, others, and their writings, as an indicator at what happens to people at yes, the "higher levels".

We are all after the same prescious jewel of truth I suspect - and mine is a perfect gentleman. In Christ I know I have the right God entering the tabernacle of my temple, and the light of life who knows me at the very deepest levels through and through, and right across the entire spectrum of all being and becoming.

My true motive is I am fearful for you, because like Jesus I love you.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
You can call me crazy if you like, but somewhere deep within, maybe even locaated in the Pineal Gland of all places, there is a throneroom, a great palace if you will. And yes, there is a great struggle to get to the light, and be illuminated by it, I understand that, been there done that got the t-shirt as they say, and when you come up against the greatest mysteries, you hit a point where it CAN become VERY confusing.

One more time - this has nothing to do with freemasonry. One more time - you believe freemasonry to be something that it is not. The LIGHT OF FREEMASONRY is a metaphor for KNOWLEDGE. It is not referenced as simply LIGHT, because that is a term religion uses, it is LIGHT OF MASONRY, knowledge. Nothing to do with religion.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
For me, from my point of view or perspective, it is VITALLY important, that the seat of the soul, the rider of my horse (there's always a bit in the mouth), is the actual living spirit of God, and that I am not getting beat in the process of working through a series of puzzles, where the dealer could very well be dealing a rigged game, if you know what I mean. Our throne is to be occupied by only ONE God, and he is not dualistic, or God would be a house divided - do you see where I'm coming from?

Absolutely...and yet again, this has nothing to do with freemasonry what so ever. You are quite simply ignoring the facts and believing things that are not true.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
And so I take a good look at Christ, his character, his model, his great work, and there I just KNOW that I'm safe, not because "they" told me so, but because it's the only rational way to approach the underlying problem of the duality of good and evil. In Him the paradox is resolved, the simplicity on the other side of complexity revealed, and it's a place of peace, and everlasting protection, as well as a type of cosmic clamshell of a spiritual transformation, and there is no controversy, and no attack made, or which is possible, therein.

How great for you. This is a matter of religion, of which freemasonry does not concern itself with except to tell its own members that they should be good members of whatever religion they choose to follow.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I strongly suspect that Masons place themselves unknowingly in GRAVE jeopardy, and that they should look at Pike, Crowley, others, and their writings, as an indicator at what happens to people at yes, the "higher levels".

Your strong suspicion is not based on the facts, so while its nice of you to be concerned I would prefer you to do the research instead of believing lies about the fraternity.

Your continual obsession with Pike and Crowley suggests your true agenda - which unfortunately has nothing to do with learning the facts. There are plenty of books about freemasonry with disagree with both of them, which you ignore because it does not fit your agenda. Neither Pike nor Crowley were high level masons, because - surprise - once again, they do not exist. That is a myth you believe in.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
We are all after the same prescious jewel of truth I suspect - and mine is a perfect gentleman. In Christ I know I have the right God entering the tabernacle of my temple, and the light of life who knows me at the very deepest levels through and through, and right across the entire spectrum of all being and becoming.

I am sure Jesus Christ would tell you that it is far better for you to do the research and stop believing in myths - you are chasing after shadows. What you believe freemasonry is, and what it actually is, are two different things.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
My true motive is I am fearful for you, because like Jesus I love you.

No, I really don't think so. You see if you were truly concerned you could quickly alleviate your concerns by doing simple things like reading the history of freemasonry and the ritual. But you do not. Because you have an agenda.

I am fearful for you though, because if you so easily believe the lies you've been told about freemasonry you will quickly be led astray, as you have been here.

[edit on 4-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by OmegaPoint


I would never discard Christ to take on a cloak placed upon me by someone without His Authority, bottom line. I fear for Masons. God loves Masons too.

As a Christian and a mason I have to say this statement is a little offensive and perhaps a little blasphemous.

You repeatedly compare yourself to Christ and speak for God which is a little bit pompous.

Freemasonry has been a positive influence in my life, if nothing else. When I first started to apply some of the principles of Freemasonry to my understanding of Jesus a lot of things actually started to make sense!

Would it not follow that if masonry were attempting to replace or supplant religion that it would tell us 'what' and 'how' to believe?

Instead of a replacement belief system what I have found is a very useful set of lessons that enhance and complement the lessons of Christ.

I am interested to know, and I am not being sarcastic, what personal experience you have had that would lead you to your beliefs about masonry (or whatever)?

Are you simply espousing the same tired 'pineal gland' conspiracy theories or do you have some experience that you want to share?

Again, not sarcastic, but I would like to know your thoughts.

I find this interesting due to the fact I have been trying to learn more on

this subject for a personal reason. My mothers father and her grandfather

were masons as well as shriners. My fathers grandfather was a mason as

well. There may have been more farther back but do not know at this time.

At new years dinner my brother was talking to my father and let it be

known he had joined and was working his way up tp get his ring. My father

had always had an interest because of his family tie to the organization.

I sincerely hope it is all good and that it will be harmless. I just dont like it

personally from the standpoint of secrecy and all the rituals no matter what

the history behind them. I believe many Christians will be leary for that

alone. I asked my father what is the allure to join such a secret "group".

I mean what is the purpose? What would you derive from it? If it is just

about becoming a more responsible intelligent person you can do that with-

out secrecy. If it is to better yourself so you can better your society and

fellow man , you can do that without secrecy. If it is for knowledge and

fellowship you can do that too without joining a club of secrets. About the

best answer I could obtain from my dad or my brother was to belong to

something that would better yourself as a person and a club that not just

anyone would or could join and to obtain a strong feeling of brotherhood.

To me it just seems all kinda weird from a Christian point of veiw. All the

things I could gather that they would get from being in this club they could

obtain from their membership at their church. I dont really know how to

explain it , but it does give me a worried feeling deep inside. I guess the

idea of a secret club and secret oaths and handshakes and all seems a bit

sophmoric and a little against my biblical beliefs as a Christain. I am not

judging or putting down thier beliefs or goals or any of yours. I am just

trying to explain how it makes some of us who are Christains a tad bit

leary. I have done a bit of searching here and there and one of the sites

from ex-masons kinda toubled me as they seem to think it bad. The one

guy was a " worshipful master" who renounced his membership. That title

alone is enough to make me scared from my own standpoint. Maybe I am

just a simpleton I just dont really know. I just know that for me , that all

kinda just worries me a bit , because I do love my father and my brother

and would hope and pray that none of this will be something that is against

the God of Jesus Christ my lord and savoir and the God whom my father

and brother have followed.

Now I guess to show another fear which I am sure is just from ignorance. I

would like to know why if there is no power grab or control issues , the

nations capitol is laid out with all the masonic symbols? If it is not a control

issue then why was it even bothered to be laid out in such a manner? Here

again, I am just asking a question about something I know nothing about

and am just curious. I guess I am just curious as to what the purpose

would be. Thanks in advance for listening to my point of views and

answering any of the concerns I have as I fear if I ask my father or

brother they might get a little offended or flat out think I am a wacko.


Michael

Well, I did a little checking and you say there is no ancient history of freemasonry right, but what about this?

"I would however like to see each district introduce their own one-day seminar, with emphasis on running a lodge and not necessarily focussing on the ancient history of Freemasonry."

www.freemasonry.bcy.ca...

Isn't that odd?

Something else - an old friend of mine who once almost dated Robert Chad, the founder of a company in Canada called Husky Injection Moulding and a Mason, was at his house and when she opened a closet, found a large goats head type baphomet type headress (hat) with horns, and bolted from his house it creeped her out so much. Isn't the worshipful master considered the "light" of the lodge situated with his back to the rising sun? And is there not a part in one of the initiation rites which, mimicking what the voice from heaven is purported to have uttered at the baptism of Jesus Christ - "this is my son in whom I am well pleased"?

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Well, I did a little checking and you say there is no ancient history of freemasonry right, but what about this?

"I would however like to see each district introduce their own one-day seminar, with emphasis on running a lodge and not necessarily focussing on the ancient history of Freemasonry."

Isn't that odd?

You are really making your agenda obvious here - hes talking about the early history of Freemasonry (14th century - 17th century). Again, you could have looked at the website and EASILY found this out, but you choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit what you want to believe:

First, a bit of history. Records strongly suggest a lineage to operative stonemasons' lodges or guilds of fourteenth century Scotland and an inner fraternity of the London Company of Masons. The records of the Lodge of Edinburgh (Mary’s Chapel) show lawyer and writer, John Boswell of Auchinleck, signing the minutes of a meeting held in 1600, although the first recorded admission of a non-operative doesn't occur until 1634. The oldest surviving Minute Book, that of the Lodge of Aitchison’s Haven, is dated 9th January 1598.

So, nope, not odd at all. Just you - yet again - taking things completely out of context. He also be referring to the mythical history of freemasonry, which goes back far than that but is a MYTH.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Something else - an old friend of mine who once almost dated Robert Chad, the founder of a company in Canada called Husky Injection Moulding and a Mason, was at his house and when she opened a closet, found a large goats head type baphomet type headress (hat) with horns, and bolted from his house it creeped her out so much.

Sounds like a simple urban legend to me, someone who wants to prey on your unfounded fears and tell you what you want to hear. The clue is your mention of baphomet, which is something only that hoaxes accuse masons of being involved in (Leo Taxil - I'd advise you to do your research, but you won't). There are also a ton of other rational explanations, like maybe it was a stuffed animal head that you some people hang up. Or..oh my goodness.. a halloween costume!

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Isn't the worshipful master considered the "light" of the lodge situated with his back to the rising sun? And is there not a part in one of the initiation rites which, mimicking what the voice from heaven is purported to have uttered at the baptism of Jesus Christ - "this is my son in whom I am well pleased"?

Yet again, you are purposely ignoring the facts and believing things that are not true. The master of the lodge is not the "light" of the lodge. There are three great lights of freemasonry - the first is the HOLY BIBLE (uh-oh, that one doesn't fit well with what you want to believe!), and the others are the square and compass. The three LESSER LIGHTS of the lodge are the sun, moon, and master of the lodge. That doesn't mean the master is god like or perfect, just that he plays a important role in the lodge.

And no, thats not part of any rite. Please do your research. You are believing lies because its what you want to believe.

reply to post by savagediver


I typed out a long reply to your post and lost it. Basically you need to do the research from real sources. Anti-mason sources want to scare you and prey on your fears.

How exactly is freemasonry secret when (1) the members announce their membership and wear jewelry proclaiming it, (2) the places and times of meetings are announced, and (3) the leaders of the organization have all their information plastered across countless websites?

As to the "symbols in DC" stuff, that doesn't exist. The shapes either aren't there and are just anti-masons drawing random lines, or they are simply what happens when lots of diagonal streets and straight streets come together in a small area, you can draw anything. Its all the power of suggestion, making you believe in something that is not really there.

You should talk to your father and brother. They are the best people to show you how your concerns are not based on the facts of the matter. They can even provide you with real, non anti-mason materials to do real research about the subject.

Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
Well, according to David Icke and other legally-retarded, oxygen-wasting individuals, Freemasons don't learn of the evil agenda of the Brotherhood until they receive the 33rd degree, where they make an oath with Satan and are inducted into the Illuminati where they will plot to take over the world.

Here are some excerpts from the 33rd degree, which were taken from an anti-Masonic site:

"
GRAND COMMANDER: Maintain your honor to your Fatherland. Be prepared to die to defend its rights. Labor for the peoples to move securely a lawful freedom, but do not flatter it and do not fear to tell useful truths; never seek frivolous popularity.

Take of yourself the trouble to instruct the people, to enlighten them, to better them, without ever threatening or to try to lead them astray, or to make them serve you as an instrument.

Never give support to any actions of unfaithfulness to the nation, do not support evil, defend no errors, do not keep the truth hidden in avail for someone or for special interests; consider yourself as a defender of public morality. Contemplate the tyrant and the people's demagogue as evenly contemptuous of the freedom of conscience. May your motto in the future as citizenship be; Freedom with order, Equality with honor for the lawful authority, Brotherhood with justice.

Do you promise yourself conduct honor with uprightness as a citizen for continuing in the agreement to be done with these rules and the obligations to be acknowledged, that they put upon you necessary?

CANDIDATE: This I promise.

www.gaiaguys.net...

Edit: Copy and paste removed, link added.

Please review this on posting material written by others:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 12-1-2006 by intrepid]

[edit on 12-1-2006 by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama]

I suggest that you don't edit my edit again.

[edit on 12-1-2006 by intrepid]

I can't understand how they're making a pact with the devil when the creed states "Never give support to any actions of unfaithfulness to the nation, do not support evil, defend no errors, do not keep the truth hidden in avail for someone or for special interests; consider yourself as a defender of public morality. Contemplate the tyrant and the people's demagogue as evenly contemptuous of the freedom of conscience. May your motto in the future as citizenship be; Freedom with order, Equality with honor for the lawful authority, Brotherhood with justice."

That doesn't reallly sound like a plan to take over the world to me.

Take of yourself the trouble to instruct the people, to enlighten them, to better them, without ever threatening or to try to lead them astray, or to make them serve you as an instrument.

neither was that.

Its simple. Masons DO NOT support evil. The evidence is all there, people just choose not to do the research and believe what they want to. Ive even heard someone say that " Masons believe that good is really evil and evil is really good." This statement just shows the length some will go to in order to slander others. Its just sad.