It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by MrNECROS
No, Freemasonry is not a religion, it's much better than that.
Freemasonry deliberately erodes at organised religion so as to reduce it's importance and influence on an individual...
External Source - United Grand Lodge of England
Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It demands of its members a belief in a Supreme Being but provides no system of faith of its own. Freemasonry is far from indifferent to religion. Without interfering in religious practice it expects each member to follow his own faith, and to place above all other duties his duty to God, by whatever name He is known. Its moral teachings are acceptable to all religions. Freemasonry is thus a supporter of religion.
If you listen to Freemasons, then Freemasonry isn't anything at all.
You will never get a straight answer out of them...
Originally posted by Nakash
I didn't reduce Christ to an angel (heresy), but if Christ is indeed the Messiah he must be YHWH in his transcendental form (Metatron). He is also Lord and leader of the Hosts, though not a host himself.
My apology. You are in fact correct on this. The date given however was stipulated by St. Eusebius and irenaeus of Lyons as possible dates for the schism. I wrongly confused the Masonic Calendar with a Gnostic schedule I saw somewhere (post the link when I find it).
Me: "Aleister Crowley was never a regular Mason, nor was he ever a satanist."
You: "Not a Satanist? Your joking right? He was a member of the Golden Dawn and O.T.O.- both affiliated with Masonry."
Me: "Reuss was briefly a regular Mason, but only held membership for about a year. He was never a satanist; instead, he was a Gnostic. "
You: "And what my friend is the conception of Satan gnostics are most fond of? Be honest."
Me: "However, since Wicca was not even founded until the 1920's, I'd wager your information is not true."
You: "If by Wicca you mean the Gardner hoax I agree. Fertility and Mother Goddess/Magna Mater cults are far older though."
Me: "No, there aren't. Besant, of course, was never a Mason."
You: "Yet her husband was. Her beliefs can perfectly well be picked apart in orthodox Masonry. Let's be honest."
My friend, I never said Pike was a Zoroastrian, but can you deny that his writings contain the same peculiar gnostic manichaen duality of Zoroastrianism? Of course not!
Your mad that I simply collected quotes from well known Masonic sources. If Masonry has nothing to hide WHY are you angry?
Originally posted by YIAWETA
Will some you masons please tell me why FDR 33rd drgree mason changed U.S. currency back in the 30's to include masonic symbols along with New World Order inscpripted as well ?
Your entitled to worship a flea on a Yaks ass for all I care. Why does our money need your logo ?
Originally posted by Nakash
I still cannot pin down this generic God of Masonry.Since I don't wish to underestimate the intelligence of most Masons, I have to conclude that Masonry does not wish to reveal it's true God.
Originally posted by Nygdan
Is it not possible that there is no god advocated by the fraternity? That its rites and explanations of those rites are 'vague' when they are tried to be taken as a whole because they are not a whole, and they include so many elements because they were intended to be commentaries on man's understanding of religion through the ages?
Originally posted by YIAWETA
Mahabone Bro's, would any of you care to address the following !
quote: The eye and the pyramid shown on the reverse side of the one-dollar bill are in the Great Seal of the United States. The Great Seal was first used on the reverse of the one-dollar Federal Reserve note in 1935. The Department of State is the official keeper of the Seal. They believe that the most accurate explanation of a pyramid on the Great Seal is that it symbolizes strength and durability. The unfinished pyramid means that the United States will always grow, improve and build. In addition, the "All-Seeing Eye" located above the pyramid suggests the importance of divine guidance in favor of the American cause.
The inscription ANNUIT COEPTIS translates as "He (God) has favored our undertakings," and refers to the many instances of Divine Providence during our Government's formation. In addition, the inscription NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM translates as "A new order of the ages," and signifies a new American era. If you are interested in a more detailed history of the Great Seal of the United States, you should contact the Department of State directly.
quote: In, at times, a strongly worded article Dr. S. Morris, a member and Past Master of Patmos Lodge #70, Ellicott City, Maryland, has "set the record straight" on the myth that the Great Seal of the United States represents a Masonic symbol. The facts are clearly presented, together with several examples of the use of the "All Seeing Eye" prior to any known Masonic use. This straightforward article is being presented as a STB so that Freemasons may have an answer when the question is asked "Is the Seal of the United States a Masonic symbol?"
Originally posted by YIAWETA
Damn Masonic Light,
Ever play dodge ball?...There are about twenty different claims in my post and you refer me to google?
Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
The information is on this site masonic light. It took me less than five minutes to give somebody information that they asked for. Heck, it even looked like they put some work into thier post.
I thought you would want to help somebody seek the light, if you cannot be patient and help those who might be willing to learn, then why are you here? Just because his ideas might be flawed, and you are tired of the question, doesnt mean you should not put in the effort.
What does that person think when he/she sees that the educated masons on this board think that they are too important, or don't have time to answer their silly questions.
Arrogance, begat mystery, and mystery begat negativity, which is why you encounter so much heat from the mason bashers.
To communicate true and correct ideas in respect of the Diety was one chief object of the mysteries. In them, Khurum the King, and Khurum the Master, obtained thier knowledge of him and his attributes; and in them that knowledge was taught to Moses and Pythagoras.
Wherefore nothing forbids you to consider the whole legend of this Degree (13), like that of the Msater's, and allegory, representing the perpetuation of the knowledge of the True God in the sanctuaries of initiation. By the subterranean vaults you may understand the places of initiation, in which the ancient ceremonies were generally underground. The Temple of Solomon presented a symbolic image of the Unverse; and resembled, in its arrangements and furniture, all the temples of the ancient nations that practiced the mysteries. The system of numbers was intimately connected with their religions and worship, and has come down to us in Masonry; through the esoteric meaning with which the numbers used by us are pregnant is unknown to the vast majority that use them. Those numbers were especially employed that had a reference to the Diety, represented his attributes, or figured in the frame-work of the world, in time and space, and formed more or less the bases of that frame work. These were universally regarded as sacred, being the expression of order and intelligence, the utterances of Divinity Himself
Originally posted by Masonic Light
am I too educated? No. Am I too busy to answer silly questions? Yes.
me: Arrogance, begat mystery, and mystery begat negativity, which is why you encounter so much heat from the mason bashers.
To be honest, I really couldn't care less what the Mason bashers think. My primary purpose in responding to them here is not to change their minds, but to display to the neutral and unbiased who may be reading that my fraternity is actually something worth having around. If in the meantime, it is also shown that the majority of the anti-Masons are quacks and scam artists, so be it.
Absolutely. The universality of Masonry is its core and base. The purpose here is to unite men in a fraternity with whose principles all can agree with, regardless of personal religious belief. As has been previously mentioned, this was a standard idea during the Enlightenment.
Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
What I am trying to say is that a site stole the 33rd degree ritual in an attempt to use it in an anti-masonic nature, but it seems to have backfired - the ritual shines a good light on masonry.
Originally posted by Nakash
Satan in Gnosticism is usually considered a "God" or a heroe of sorts. You weren't honest. I suggest people on this board go read a little the Nag Hammadi library,Cathar writings or other Gnostic fairy tales and their amazing claims on Super agent Jesus who didn't die but had a bunch of chumps believe on him, evil archons out to get us, Serpent God demiurges given birth by Mother godesses, how Satan "saved" mankind from God in Eden by giving Eve the fruit, How evil Adonai had a stooge named Noah build an ark while his evil archons raped some "Noreah" character that had secret teachings intended to save humanity etc. - would make David Icke DAMN PROUD . Anyway, I know that you don't take this stuff in a literal sense, but you get the idea right? You also know that the same thought pattern is present in the Zoroastrian theology Pike loved. I'm not asking you to be a fundamentalist, but to claim that this isn't dark stuff (and of a blatantly blasphemous nature for those who follow orthodox biblical theology) is to kid yourself. I'm not into it but I guess you find it of use in your life.
OK, fair enough, a noble goal (though I'm not ecumenical in my theology, I find this attempt to unite men into a fraternity of brotherhood worthy), however do you understand why some people find this suspicious? Many people within masonry have had a questionable record (ie: our Good Satanist friend Manly P. Hall or others) and since secrecy is quite high within lodges and Masons claim to have NO God (yet use extensive symbolism linked to Satanism- as in Islam, pagan theologies of yore, Judaism, Christianity, etc.), some might deduce that they don't wish to reveal their actual God.
The true name of Satan, the kabalists say, is that of Yaveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of god. The devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry.
for the initiates, this is not a person, but a force, created for good, but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or free will. They represent this force, which presides over physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-Bearer or Phosphor, of which poets have made the false Lucifer of legend.