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Pentagon to send extra armor for troops in Iraq.

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posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:14 PM
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WASHINGTON - The Army plans to send thousands of ceramic body armor plates to Iraq this year to better protect soldiers while the Marine Corps already is delivering such gear, military officers said Wednesday.

But some Democrats urged more congressional oversight on body-armor issues. "Our soldiers and their families deserve nothing less," Sen. Edward Kennedy (news, bio, voting record), D-Mass., said in a statement.

After the briefing, Army Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Sorenson said the Army decided to send soldiers side protective plates after troops driving military vehicles made the suggestion over the past year.


However many soldiers don't approve the add on.



www.armytimes.com...

"Soldier protection is the highest priority of the Army,” said Maj. Gen. Stephen Speakes, the Army’s director of force development. “We must not burden our soldiers with weight to the point that they become ineffective and susceptible to other dangers.”

The Marine Corps “is doing the absolute best it can” to provide better armor while balancing the demands of having equipment of bearable — and wearable — weight in an environment with high temperatures against the demands of missions requiring the kind of mobility that is just not possible when saddled with the complete set of vest, front, back, side and shoulder armor plates.

At a post-briefing news conference, Marine Sgt. Jared McNerney, dressed in full combat gear to show what equipment is available, said he prefers not to wear a full set of armor in the war zone because of the weight and lack of mobility.




www.katu.com...

Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division's 3rd Brigade "Rakkasans" are required to wear an array of protective clothing they refer to as their "happy gear," ranging from Kevlar drapes over their shoulders and sides, to knee pads and fire-resistant uniforms.

But many soldiers say they feel encumbered by the weight and restricted by fabric that does not move as they do.

They frequently joke as they strap on their equipment before a patrol, and express relief when they return and peel it off.



This what add on armor looks like for the side. 3 and a half pounds may not sound alot but to the soldiers in the field its just more burden.




Possibly add on a few months or years later if politicians complaining that soldiers need more armor.





They going to have a hard time running. Wonder how much weight for the legs.

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[edit on 11/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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A little late, isn't it? 80 percent of the marines who have been killed in Iraq could be alive right now, if outfitted properly. I guess better late than never, though. Maybe there is a rush to outfit the troops before the upcoming US elections.


Marines died short of armor
By Michael Moss The New York Times

SUNDAY, JANUARY 8, 2006
A secret Pentagon study has found that as many as 80 percent of the marines who have been killed in Iraq from wounds to their upper body could have survived if they had had extra body armor. Such armor has been available since 2003, but until recently the Pentagon has largely declined to supply it to troops despite calls from the field for additional protection, according to military officials.

The ceramic plates in vests now worn by the majority of troops in Iraq cover only some of the chest and back. In at least 74 of the 93 fatal wounds that were analyzed in the Pentagon study of marines from March 2003 through June 2005, bullets and shrapnel struck the marines' shoulders, sides or areas of the torso where the plates do not reach.

Thirty-one of the deadly wounds struck the chest or back so close to the plates that simply enlarging the existing shields "would have had the potential to alter the fatal outcome," according to the study, which was obtained by The New York Times.

International Herald Tribune


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[edit on 11/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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Several of the Rangers killed in Somalia were killed because they had removed parts of their body armor after complaining about a lack of mobility. At least one had removed the back plate, figuring that the people shooting at them would only be in front of them, and was shot in the back.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Several of the Rangers killed in Somalia were killed because they had removed parts of their body armor after complaining about a lack of mobility. At least one had removed the back plate, figuring that the people shooting at them would only be in front of them, and was shot in the back.


Yeah a friend of mine who was a Ranger told me about the Ranger body armor which he says was heavy as hell. I told him about the new body armor the Interceptor and he was glad there are improvements with lighter but stronger. Of course, he says they should do better on the body armor. 16 pds is still heavy for the Interceptor wearers. Of course you have to sacrifice either for mobility or armor protection. Which would you pick?



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:43 PM
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Actually body armor wont stop physics, if you get shot with armor piercing your screwed, if your shot by regular you will get injuries such as fractures or the bone turning to jelly from getting hit so hard. The armor stops the bullet but not the damage, if it hits you right it could stop your heart, damage organs, or cause severe brain problems (I got all this from a ex military medical guy).
That kind of body armor will only hinder you unless you have the chance to sit still and fight which doesnt happen in combat unless your defending a base. In the cold you will freeze with that stuff on, in summer you will burn up and pass out from heat exaustion.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Of course it doesn't stop physics, but you know if my choice is a couple of broken ribs, or death, I think I'll take the broken ribs any day of the week.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Several of the Rangers killed in Somalia were killed because they had removed parts of their body armor after complaining about a lack of mobility. At least one had removed the back plate, figuring that the people shooting at them would only be in front of them, and was shot in the back.


This problem with soldiers taking off their armor has been going on since the introduction of such equipment back in Vietnam. I remember reading a few days ago actually, that troops have been removing parts of their armors for extra mobility before raids which is leading to a certain amounts of so-called "preventable" injuries and death by soldiers as some DOD and politicians are starting to murmur about but are trying to be very delicate on how to word it properly without attacking the soldiers. I’m looking around to get the link where I had read this I’ll post it later on.

Things look like they are getting lighter and stronger there was a story earlier this week about some kind of nano-enhanced armor plates or whatnot being develop by an Israeli company.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Oblivions void
Things look like they are getting lighter and stronger there was a story earlier this week about some kind of nano-enhanced armor plates or whatnot being develop by an Israeli company.




www.isracast.com...

An Israeli company has recently tested one of the most shock-resistant materials known to man. Five times stronger than steel and at least twice as strong as any impact-resistant material currently in use as protective gear, the new nano-based material is on its way to becoming the armor of the future.

A year ago IsraCast reported on the development of the first commercial nano-based lubricant which was developed by the Israeli company ApNano materials. A year later we find ApNano working also on a wholly different application of their technology - shielding and protection. In recent research lead by Prof. Yan Qiu Zhu of the School of Mechanical, Materials and Manufacturing Engineering at the University of Nottingham, England, a sample of the ApNano material was subjected to severe shocks generated by a steel projectile traveling at velocities of up to 1.5 km/second. The material withstood the shock pressures generated by the impacts of up to 250 tons per square centimeter. This is approximately equivalent to dropping four diesel locomotives onto an area the size of one’s fingernail. During the test the material proved to be so strong that after the impact the samples remained essentially identical compared to the original material. Additionally, a recent study by Prof. J. M. Martin from Ecole Centrale de Lyon in France tested the new material under isostatic pressure and found it to be stable up to at least 350 tons/cm2.


Oh yeah I heard of that. Not that I'm impressed since 5 times stronger than steel is the same as Kevlar. But I give them thumbs up for keeping on trying to improve the nano body armor



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 09:06 PM
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Well this is a post I made on another thread concerning the new Interceptor boy armor.

Here is a good article about current body armor in Iraq and updates that they have made to it. Troops are now field a new body amour that's lighter then what they previously had, and that's capable of stopping 7.62 mm rounds.


Interceptor Multi-Threat Body Armor System is made up of two modular components: the outer tactical vest and small-arms protective inserts, or plates. The new body armor, which is unisex, is equipped with removable throat and groin protectors, as well as front and back removable plates, which can stop 7.62 mm rounds. It weighs 16.4 pounds; each of the two inserts weighs 4 pounds, and the outer tactical vest weighs 8.4 pounds. The previous body armor, the flak jacket, weighed 25.1 pounds.





posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 10:47 PM
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Real body armor is ment to stop anything short of a .50 round.
To be I would rather die than have half my body imobile because half of it turned to jelly from the bullets that hit. Also no matter how much armor you get the "enemy" whoever you like to call them will just find ways around it, grenades still work, RPG's still work along with sniper rifles. NEVER assume body armor will always work and keep you alive. By the way you got it wrong with the "broken" bones:
I said they can turn to jelly, litteraly or as in your bones turn to mush. this CANNOT be repaired even by your own body and causes allot of amputations or wholesale removal of bones. You have to be one big boned person to not have this problem, even then your pushing your luck. Body armor on the whole is ment to deal with low caliber weapons not armor piercing rounds.
www.aoe.vt.edu...
That up there is serveral pictures of what happened to small armor plates.
If you get shot in real life that sucker bends in at a point and will push into you. In the real world you get hit maybe 4 times in one area because the enemy wont fire 1 round and see if your still kicking, they will fire a couple and move on.
So figure that one out:
Within a 5 inch radius you get hit 4-6 times with a AK (7.62)
you now have 4-6 bends in your armor and that coveres a good portion of your bones and body as a whole which means you will have severe bone breakage and even internal bleeding. Even with todays "medical" help you wont survive under certain circumstances. Especialy since they have to jerry rig you and fly you off to a mobile hospital then ship you again to germany for more treatment. Even with a straight line to the hospital people dont survive because of injuries suffered in the uper abdominal area. If you get nailed in the groin or gut area your SOL because the procedure is a heckova display of skill in it's self. If you were to get hit in the knee with armor pads on your knee cap will break and then you are again SOL because thats one thing that cant really be fixed. You will be very lucky if it doesnt take your leg off. Most people in combat DO NOT aim for armored areas because they KNOW BETTER.
If you want to kill someone you shoot them where theres no armor or in a critial point like the head, heart area, etc. you dont unload a gun on the most heavily armored part of their body. If they have no pack on and are turned around you shoot for the spine and paralyize them. This is common sense, body armor only works when your fighting militia or those who have little to no combat experience. Against a soldier your a sitting duck with or without it and the same goes for the other guy/gal.



posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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www.defensereview.com...

u guys should definetely check this out, it's a dragonskin VS interceptor body armor comparison, apparently dragonskin is vastly superior able to take mutiple armor piercing hits without the wearer even noticing it as one private contractor experience in iraq, he was in a gun fight and didn't notice till later that night that when he took of his dragon skin that he had half a dozen hits in his back. now conventional body armor the plates tend to shatter after a few hits.

Part of the arguement is that interceptor is an inhouse project, similar to the 6.8 vs 6.5 arguement going around even though 6.5 has been shown to be superior to 5.56 at short ranges, superior to both 6.8 and 7.62 long and just marginally weaker than the in house 6.8 project. and they bring up the lack of additional protection that dragon skin has as compare to the interceptor (doens't take a genius to just mix and match and add the additional armor as needed).military bureaucracy has gotten in the way of implementing better equipment for as long as anyone could remember, thank fully is getting better but we still have a ways to go.




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