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Lost Project Ⅱ

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posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 10:47 PM
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Since internet hase raised, all most every type of aircraft which developed after 70's, has been knowing well includs its history and concept of wind tunnel. But only one that Rafale, that few has been known, why?
I have searched internet for a loonge time for Rafale, but no article mentioned the progress of Rafale's history, only so small picture showed some concept of pre-Rafale excisted that who can identified



If you want to know rest of developed history of 3 gen fighter aircraft, ask here, I can give you, then who tell me about Rafale? Is there any secret in Rafale programe?Even the bigger picture I posted here no show air-inlet that the most part of aircraft.


[edit on 10-1-2006 by emile]

Mod Edit: All Caps Title – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 15/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 05:22 AM
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I don't know if you already know this emile but the top picture on your post was the Dassault ACX and was the first design revealed by France after they broke away from the other Eurofighter partners. This was very close to the Rafale that was eventually built and was renamed Rafale after a little subtle re-design, such as the wing which lost its leading edge crank and was made smaller.

Here is a design which, from 1979, pre-dates Frances involvement with the early EFA studies, it was called ACT92 which stood for Avion de Combat Tactique (in English; Tactical Combat Aircraft) for 1992. My French is rubbish so my spelling may be wrong there. Even then it was said that power would come from two SNECMA M.88's, which,at the time, was just a proposed engine.




Although these are a little off topic you may be also interested in theses two.

The First one is the first publically released impression of what became the SAAB Gripen and it dates from 1980 when the project was in the very early stages. A quick glance at the wing suggests a return to something like the Draken shape was being considered at his stage.



This final picture is a bit of an enigma, it dates from 1980 and was actually publically displayed on the BAe stand at the 1980 Farnborough Air Show. Despite this no designation has ever been revealed (to my knowledge) and it may actually be classified because a recent book covering British fighter projects since 1950, which includes design projects right up to FOAS, such as stealthy UAV's, makes no mention of it whatsoever.


It is a fighter that clearly owes something to the then current P.110 and it uses something called 'variable cycle propulsion' which, in the scant information that accompanied it, states that it had two 'RB.199 class' engines for combat and a central fan for cruising to allow extended CAP time, which can be just about made out by looking at the back end. I wonder what became of it?








[edit on 11-1-2006 by waynos]



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:33 AM
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Well, a huge thanks I want to give you Waynos.
I don't whether there are someone here is willing to write a whole history of Rafale project, that will be a great feat!
I search google by picture function again and again then found such a small picture that come from a link I am no ablility to open.

Who is a member of this web here? The ACX showed in picture is totly different with before I knew.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by emile]



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:48 AM
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You're welecome emile. Also, don't worry about that link. I opened it and read the page and to be honest its rubbish, it tells you nothing about the history of it that you couldn't get in two minutes with a search off this board.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 10:29 AM
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emile, that picture (on your link) wont load any bigger than it is on the page, sorry.

However, here is a site where you will get loads of photos of the Rafale (and almost anything else) in suberb detail, no project pics though.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 10:48 AM
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The Frenchman to the rescue !


The development of the Rafale was quite straightforward since it can be seen as an offspring of the Mirage 4000. Dassault had the main formula, delta with canards, already researched.

What do you want to know ? Roots of the project, development of the Rafale demonstrator and prototypes ? Do you know the Rafale A (the white one) ?

The political stuff may be out of my league but from what I read on this board I guess waynos (right spelling btw) could explain the European joint project then the way France went its way, and Britain taking the lead to the Typhoon with the EAP.

For secrets in the Rafale program... Well we have mainly the elusive SPECTRA system, supposed to have jamming capacities as well as passive detection capacities (detection of threats like missiles, and aircraft too). Details are hard to find on that one, although it can be considered as the core of the Rafale as a weapons system.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 10:48 PM
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Well, Echoblade, why you keep that secrets? Does Fafale still being a secret project? I just want to know all the layout of project before Rafale A which more svelte than after Rafale so looks more beautiful. Yes, a white one looks a sexy angel. But I really want to know Franch how to screen out Rafale A? What about others layout that has been tested? Would you please give me the rest of layout picture and tell me why they hadn't been selected?Even you give me some Franch details I couldn't read but I will check every words by dictionary to learn the meaning as I learnt English before.



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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No Emile, the Rafale is not a secret project but the SPECTRA system itself is somewhat secret, especially details of its jamming system. Its development has been highly costly and it's not fully operationnal. Once again, the F2 standard should bring big improvements.


Pics of the studied configurations before the definitive Rafale layout emerged. Pics are poor, I think I found them on another board some time ago. Note the two main evolutions from these designs to the definitive one : the wing leading edge is now straight, and the engine intakes are now semi-underbelly. The mobile "mouses" used on the Mirages were never planned for the Rafale.




If you want to read some French :

www.avions-militaires.net...

www.air-defense.net...


Finally some things in English about the Rafale systems, note the FSO which is meant to be installed on the F2 Rafales. There was some talk about retrofitting it to the F1 ones but that seems to be on hold, if not cancelled. Some things about the SPECTRA too.

www.thalesgroup.com...
www.thales-optronics.com...



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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Great! A great post you made. That picture you posted here that I've never seen before even wouldn't get it if you didn't post here. thank you very much! wow! I should say Tres merci

If one day I can read all links you post here, I will be an able man, also be an master of Franch I think!



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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Waynos on the 1st of your post on this thread the 1st pic looks really interesting, but the second one im almost certain we have already built. the second pic looks alot like a F-16XL. Check it out here...
www.dfrc.nasa.gov
music.jnu.edu.cn
www.air-and-space.com
www.allstar.fiu.edu
www.militaryfactory.com

Falcon out.



posted on Jan, 15 2006 @ 10:50 PM
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So the cockpit next me also is Franc



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by Falcon9021
Waynos on the 1st of your post on this thread the 1st pic looks really interesting, but the second one im almost certain we have already built. the second pic looks alot like a F-16XL. Check it out here...
www.dfrc.nasa.gov
music.jnu.edu.cn
www.air-and-space.com
www.allstar.fiu.edu
www.militaryfactory.com

Falcon out.


I will answer instead of waynos
It is not F16XL or any of its derivates. At the beginnig of development of swedish SAAB JAS-39 Gripen, there were many proposals, that were very different compared to final shape. This is one of them with air intakes under the cockpit. Another are here:

www.canit.se...



posted on Jan, 16 2006 @ 09:57 AM
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Thanks Matej
Yeah Falcon, what Matej said. It is close to the F-16XL thats true, but it isn't a copy of, or even based on, it as some may be tempted to think as both designs date from around the same time.




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