Bush and his Divine right

Back many centuries ago when Kings would rule, they stated they held a divine right and god himself chose this family to rule. The people knew no other way and simply accepted this. The rare exception who thought against this, would say their must be another way, was beheaded.

Now in an era of democracy where nobody is supposed to be above the law, everyone is held in check. Why is George Bush wire tapping the country and speaking out saying he is told from a higher power that its his divine right to do so because its a matter of national security. Well after the Nixon days, the laws were set so the President did not need to get a warrant to tap somebody, but I believe in 72 hours they needed to answer why they have done so, and it was decided from their to keep the taps or not.

This is the law! So why is Bush putting himself above the law, and being permitted to. And then saying it is his own divine right to do this. Where do you draw the line?

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm no expert on American government or law, just sharing my opinion. This is not meant as a personal vendetta against Bush as it may seem, I am just curious with this comments of divine right and him putting himself above the law. Whether he says it is for national security or not, he is not above the law.

I would rather this stay as a calm discussion of simply what was stated, NOT turn into a bashing of republicans and democrats.



[edit on 10-1-2006 by chissler]

The only rights he has now, is the right to live out the remaining days of his life. Everyone deserves that right.

Clinton and Carter said the same thing about such powers in the name of security. So why now over Bush when nobody talked much about Clinton or Carter who committed the same such action about eavesdropping or other methods to gather intel without warrants. This is not something new here you know.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Clinton and Carter said the same thing about such powers in the name of security.

So why now over Bush when nobody talked much about Clinton or Carter who committed the same such action about eavesdropping or other methods to gather intel without warrants. This is not something new here you know.

Different times bring about different people. The citizens under Clinton and Carter did not have the same degree of dignity as the citizens do in the year 2006. We all feared the government in the Clinton era, how they slaughtered 80+ innocent men, women, and children in Waco Texas in the 1990's serving a search warrant for one man. We were intimidated by Clinton's fascism and the support he had with his cronies. But we blackmailed him, because immoral people do immoral things. His adulterous and immoral lifestyle was his downfall.

I wasnt alive in Carter(and I dont know much about him) so I cant comment,

Bush is just another page in the history book of reaffirming us the fault in giving the government too much power. He reaffirmed to us the fact that it is ultimatly going to be ourselves that has to take up the responsibility in preserving our freedoms,

"Liberty has never come from government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of government. The history of liberty is a history of resistance. The history of liberty is a history of limitations of government power, not the increase of it. -- Woodrow Wilson, in a speech in New York City, September 9, 1912 "

The more it plays out, the more we take notice of it.

[edit on 10-1-2006 by ImplementOfWar]

"The Divine Right of Kings". An interesting topic in itself.

I posted this in another thread yesterday...

These kinds of people have always been attracted to power.

I don't understand what it is about 'The Vote' that makes us believe the people we vote for are somehow better than us or entitled to special treatment, or that they have our best interests at heart. Why so many go out of their way to protect and defend these cretins is beyond me.

In an open democratic society people could debate whether or not a decision was good or bad. Not, whether or not the decision was made at all (or even contemplated).

The failure of "the press" and the Justice branch of Government on these kinds of issues exposes the fairytale that is current democracy.

The very need to hide and keep these things secret shows how wrong they are in the first place, and the latent power the citizenry has if it would only wake up. - from Project Northwoods: America's plan to attack America

What is it about us (or the process) that compels us to think so highly of our "leaders"? Is it because we put them there and can't own up to our mistakes?

And if we don't think highly of our leaders, then who put them there and why keep them there?

Who are these "supporters"?

Where I come from, if you break the law and your caught (even by just one eyewitness) you get hauled off in hand-cuffs.

Are there any cops left in the US?
.

[edit on 1/10/2006 by Gools]

Originally posted by deltaboy
Clinton and Carter said the same thing about such powers in the name of security.

So why now over Bush when nobody talked much about Clinton or Carter who committed the same such action about eavesdropping or other methods to gather intel without warrants. This is not something new here you know.

Let it go D BOY,
Most of us here have commited to memory post # 1746873, Disinformation:ATS's Nemesis.

13. Alice in wonderland logic
17. Change the subject

10. Associate opponent charges with old news

Your'e a college boy: don't insult our intellegence. You can do it!!

Why now? Why the NSA? It is just a smoke screen, covering up foreign spies spying on US citizen. Can't have any yahu stop the gravy train to hell.

Originally posted by whaaa
Your'e a college boy: don't insult our intellegence. You can do it!!

Look whos talking. Whos insulting now?

Enough with the bickering.
Back on topic please.
.

Ummmmm, this quote was just reported to have been said. Is it even confirmed. Is it on tape, is it on video? I'm sure its been blown out of proportion just like Bush's supposed dictator line, which was said jocularly by the way. Oh and if he was serious. If you are a Christian yourself you would know that we consider the God speaking through us to be living as the bible says as the Bible to us is the word of God. So dont go blowing a statement that you yourself cant understand if you do not follow Christianity.

[edit on 1/10/2006 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by ludaChris
Ummmmm, this quote was just reported to have been said. Is it even confirmed. Is it on tape, is it on video? I'm sure its been blown out of proportion just like Bush's supposed dictator line, which was said jocularly by the way. Oh and if he was serious. If you are a Christian yourself you would know that we consider the God speaking through us to be living as the bible says as the Bible to us is the word of God. So dont go blowing a statement that you yourself cant understand if you do not follow Christianity.

[edit on 1/10/2006 by ludaChris]

If Bush was a christian he wouldnt of ordered the military to kill Iraqis. Only god can judge and "thou shall not kill". As far as I can tell the bible only says "those that spill human blood will have their blood spilled by humans", "an eye for an eye". Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and neither did Iraq's conscripts(soldiers) have anything to do with Husseins genocide. They were hardly deserving of b-52 strikes according to the bible.

I think him citing religion doesnt really stand up.

[edit on 10-1-2006 by ImplementOfWar]

Aside from the religious aspects of this situation, and whatever or whoever he claims to talk too. My point here is Bush is talking like he is King of the USA, as all the old kings did in Europe of the past. It is his own right to do as he pleases and break any law that he is or is not above. No matter what his purpose or goal is, he is not above the law. Once he begins to put himself above the law as he is, and the people begin to accept it, where do we go from their?

This was not meant to be a religious discussion, this is meant that Bush is talking like he is above the law. Does nobody else see this as a problem?

Originally posted by chissler
Why is George Bush wire tapping the country and speaking out saying he is told from a higher power that its his divine right to do so ...

Got a link to a quote from George Bush saying that he approved
wire tapping because 'it's his divine right' from a higher power (God) ???

Did he actually say those words? That God told Him he had a right
to approve wire tapping?

I'd like to see an exact quote before I make any comments.
Thank you.

Originally posted by ImplementOfWar
If Bush was a christian he wouldnt of ordered the military to kill Iraqis.

Two things -
#1 - The Christian bible is full of people going to war. Full of 'God
approved and ordained' death, rape, and war. The history of
Christianity is full of bloodshed. Just because someone is a
Christian doesn't mean that they would be a 'flower child' of
some kind.

#2 - As I said, being a Christian doesn't mean rolling over and
playing dead, or playing the 'flower child' either. Sitting back and
watching the Iraqis be butchered by the hundreds of thousands,
be mass raped, the Kurds be wiped out through genocide ...
THAT wouldn't have been very Christ-like, would it??

Only god can judge ...

Liberating Iraqis isn't judging their souls.
This statement doesn't apply to George Bush.
However, considering that you said he wasn't
a good Christian, your comments come closer
to judging his soul than anything else.

and "thou shall not kill".

Already commented on. Moses had 'thou shall
not kill' in one hand and in the other he was
telling his people to go out and wipe out the
enemy - but to spare the young virgin girls
so his men could have some fun with them
(so much for the 'thou shall not commit
adultry'). The bible is full of war. Being
Christian doesn't make a person a flower child.

Ummmmm, this quote was just reported to have been said. Is it even confirmed. Is it on tape, is it on video? I'm sure its been blown out of proportion just like Bush's supposed dictator line, which was said jocularly by the way. Oh and if he was serious. If you are a Christian yourself you would know that we consider the God speaking through us to be living as the bible says as the Bible to us is the word of God. So dont go blowing a statement that you yourself cant understand if you do not follow Christianity.

I'm not certain if the statement made has been confirmed as of yet or not. I really don't have time to look it up at the moment.

The majority in this country might be Christian including the president (I consider myself a Christian, although a HELLA different mindset than the president and most Christians I encounter). Nonetheless, he's representing a diverse country and such a blanket Christian statement shouldn't even be approached. I'm not saying Christians can't express their views, but for a nation's leader to say he has divine right (used in a religious context) puts us in the dark ages. Like I mentioned, if this is true; his political writers/advisor that pulled the puppet strings for this comment, should be removed. If he coined this statement on his own – cut him some slack, for he isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

No what I was saying is that every true Christian should feel that God speaks to them, meaning they are reading their bible everyday, and taking a life lesson for it. As for your statement that he wouldnt have ordered troops to kill Iraqis if he was a Christian. He didnt order them to kill Iraqis, but insurgents and terrorists. Ill leave you one this, maybe this will help you understand the Christian standpoint on war and many other issues.

Ecclesiasties Chpt. 3: 1-8.
3:1
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
3:2
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
3:4
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
3:5
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
3:6
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
3:7
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
3:8
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

I'm still wondering where he said it was his divine right?

[edit on 1/11/2006 by ludaChris]

Chissler still hasn't come up with a link or anything that
confirms that Bush said 'divine right' to wiretap.

I'm thinking this is a 'no - story' ... didn't happen.

Had a damn post to this but thanks to the network Im on at work, that was washed out.



As I said previously, I am currently unable to find anything directly quoting Bush to this, however I do not take back on my stance. Bush has already said he believes their is some religious purpose to his being in office, and this is all to much like a King to myself. He firmly believes that he has a divine right over the people, and he is proving this by putting himself above the law.

FISA created this foundation for warrants after Nixon, Bush has ignored it. With this action he has put himself above the law. Under no circumstances should we allow anybody to be above the law, no matter what they say they are trying to protect. At one point do we need to be protected from the protector?

Originally posted by chissler
Bush has already said he believes their is some
religious purpose to his being in office,

So what? Lots of people believe their lives have purpose ... that
God has directed their lives in some way ... in their jobs, in their
marriages, in their decisions. Believing that there is a religious
purpose to your position in life is not a crime and it could in fact
be true.

He firmly believes that he has a divine right over the people,

You'll have to find a link that shows him saying this otherwise you
are just speculating about what he believes and doesn't believe.

he is proving this by putting himself above the law.

Lots of people put themselves above the law for reasons other
than religious ones. The man claims to believe in God and that
God guides his life. THis is a belief by 2 billion christians on this
planet. Some break the law, some don't. Showing a Christian
breaking the law is not proof that someone believes they
have a 'divine right' to do so.

Clinton claimed to be a Christian. Southern Baptist I believe.
He broke the law many times - both Christian law and the
law of the land (lieing under oath in sworn testimony on a
sexual harrassment case). He too was a fundamentalist
Christian. However, that doesn't mean that he believed it
was his 'divine right' to break the law.

Sorry ... but I'm not seeing anything that shows G.W. BUsh
believes it is his 'divine right' to break the law. I also haven't
seen anything that shows that he has broken the law with
this wiretapping. There are many threads about this so I
won't get into it here since your focus was on the 'divine right'
aspect.

If the law had been broken, the dems would have been all over
it by now. They aren't. No laws were broken. The wiretaps of
phone calls to terrorist nations was reported to congress as
required. That case is closed. No broken law there.

Originally posted by chissler
Now in an era of democracy where nobody is supposed to be above the law, everyone is held in check. Why is George Bush wire tapping the country

He approved the wire tapping of people talking to known terrorists. This is a good thing for our country. Congress was told of this before the NSA began doing so. It is perfectly fine.

and speaking out saying he is told from a higher power that its his divine right to do so because its a matter of national security.

President Bush did not say that God gave him the right to have the NSA wire tap Americans. The idea of that is foolish.

...So why is Bush putting himself above the law, and being permitted to. And then saying it is his own divine right to do this. Where do you draw the line?

President Bush is not putting himself above the law. They are legal, and an important way to keep us safe! He never said that it was his divine right to do so.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Yes. President Bush has not hurt Americans by approving wire taps on those who speak with terrorists. This should be clear to all.

-- Boat