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If You Could Perform ANY Miracle .. . (a measure of character)

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posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I'd create a worldwide election system to elect a world gov't, with a voting date, that enabled everyone to vote, and no ability to tamper with the results.


Yikes!

Ok, since my previous one was a joke, here's a real one. I would modify human nature to remove our tribal instinct.




posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Did Columbus cross the Atlantic out of curiosity?


Nope for gold and out of patriotism.


Did Genghis Khan conquer his neighbors in the name of curiosity?

Nope. But tell me how exactly has he contributed in making our lives better today?

I agree with your example of John Harrison, nicely picked too dontchya think?

Let me clarify. I was really refering to mathematicians/scientists/inventors etc and not warlords/dictators/slave traders when talking about human advancement cuz "lets go plunder" is not really what I had in mind.

Here are a few a people driven by their own private visions, driven by imagination, driven by their colorful daydreams, driven by a sense that their place in life is to do real things that make life better:

Max Plank- Founded the Plank's constant

Neils Bohr( sometimes refered to as the father of Quantum Mechanics) - Came up with the theory of the atom and liquid model of the atomic nucleus

Marie Curie- Polish-born French physicist famous for her work on radioactivity

Albert Einstein

Galileo Galilei - Surely he was driven by greed and fame to go against the established authorities?

Alexander Graham Bell - Bell might easily have been content with the success of his invention. His many laboratory notebooks demonstrate, however, that he was driven by a genuine and rare intellectual curiosity that kept him regularly searching, striving, and wanting always to learn and to create

Some more to add to the list: Georg Cantor, Descartes, Euclid, Euler, Fermat, Fibonacci, Fourier, Gauss, Godel, Kelvin, Lagrange, Lobachevsky, Mobius, Pascal, Poincare, Piosson, Ramanujan, Riemann( my all time fav...sorry Einstien..you needed his math ), Weiner, ..etc etc


Greed is only a put-down when you think that the desire for safety and plenty is evil, or unseemly

No safety and plenty is not evil. I dont even believe in evil, heck! I just dont see it as a quality thats necessary in any way! We'll probably blow ourselves up eventually due to this very same quality. Greed isinfact beneath my principles. I try to stick to my principles as much as I can though
Its tough.


...think it is merely a label that is used to impugn someone else's motivation.

Motivation for what? That doesnt make sense! Its wrong to label someone "greedy" if their sole motivation is greed and thats somehow a false accusation?



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham

I would modify human nature to remove our tribal instinct.


What? No dancing around the fire with straw skirts? You're evil!



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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I'd cure the common cold.

Everyone gets it. It makes life miserable for the one getting
it and those around them. Time is lost in school and at work.
Money wasted on over the counter products that are nothing
more than sugared water and alcohol

All that time and money could be spent on find cures for
serious diseases.

So many other illness' spout off from the common cold too.
Pneumonia for one!

Yep .. I'd rid the world of the common cold.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by I_s_i_s



Greed is only a put-down when you think that the desire for safety and plenty is evil, or unseemly

No safety and plenty is not evil. I dont even believe in evil, heck! I just dont see it as a quality thats necessary in any way! We'll probably blow ourselves up eventually due to this very same quality. Greed isinfact beneath my principles. I try to stick to my principles as much as I can though
Its tough.


...think it is merely a label that is used to impugn someone else's motivation.

Motivation for what? That doesnt make sense! Its wrong to label someone "greedy" if their sole motivation is greed and thats somehow a false accusation?




Here's a definition I pulled off google: definition: greed:





excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves



My point has been that "more than [a person] needs or deserves" is a highly subjective judgment.

It's easy for us to say that, for instance, Edward Teach (Blackbeard), was greedy. On the other hand, as a man who refused to bow down to the crown of the empire he was born under, he would need all the resources he could lay his hands on in order to establish his independence from the crown.

Same with Genghis Khan. It's easy enough for you or I to say that he didn't "need" to conquer Asia. He would probably point out that enemies of his father had sworn to exterminate his entire family. He and his mother were the lone survivors only because they hid in the desert and lived off of whatever rats the young boy could catch and eat raw.

Was he greedy? hardly. His "imperial throne" was a royal camp-stool, one of his few possessions from his rat-catching days. He wore a shepherd's coat, and used it as the emblem for his blood-line, as a sign to his heirs of their own humble origins. And despite what his own generals demanded, he always offered peace on generous terms to any city that wished to avoid armed conflict. In his own eyes, he was ordering the world in a more civilized, more humane, less power-mad form than it has ever experienced before or since. hardly the work of a greed-driven maniac.

Look at other people who are purported to be driven by desire for "more than they needed or deserved." I'm sure that's what the Bourgeoisie would have said during the French revolution. Same with slave-holders in the Antebellum Southern US.

People who have "enough" don't think anyone else should ever need more or differently.

The Americas and Australia were settled by people who "didn't have enough." The industrial revolution, the computer revolution practically every revolution in human affairs was instigated by someone who wanted more than "the system" allotted them.

Did Bill Gates market DOS out of curiosity?

For every scientist that you can can name who was supposedly motivated by "curiosity," I can point to another, or sometimes even the same person being driven by the desire for money and/or fame.

Did you mention Newton? What about his refusal to acknowledge the reality of meteorites, because it appeared to refute his doctrine of inertia. He ruined careers in the name of salvaging his theory. Look at his claim to have "invented" calculus. He railroaded Liebnitz's counterclaims, and had official documents altered, to "preserve his reputation."

And all for the glory of . . . "curiosity," right?


Practically every "claim to faim" has a dark, untold story beneath the surface. WHether its Watson and Crick, the official "discoverers" of DNA, or the Wright Brothers (who have been lauded by the Smithsonian, who owns their plane, despite prior flights by others), or Wallace languishing in the shadow of Darwin (the aristocrat), the Hagiography we've been given concerning the advance of science is simply one more piece of propoganda.


OOh. ohh. how about a bonus. You mentioned Thomas Edison.

How about the way that he drove Nickolas Tesla to financial ruin, and wound up with the patent for the AC motor; was that curiosity, that set Edison Electric and Westinghouse up as the quintessential American Monopoly.

Was it Edison's army of "assistants," working round the clock to beat out Tesla? Was that curiosity? Or merely greed? maybe both?

Or maybe it was neither. maybe it was simply business.

.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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When Tesla and Edison reached an impasse in the debate over AC (Tesla), and DC (Edison) as the best method to distribute power, Tesla's job working for Edison ended. Edison refused to admit Tesla's plan was best. He must have known it was, as he was pretty smart. So, I feel that he set out to crush this annoying upstart sheerly out of petty jealousy. His supremacy in the world of electricity was in jeopardy, and whether anyone else knew it, he knew whose ideas were more advanced. So, in a vindictive display of vengeance, he attacked Tesla with all his might. Tesla, though he was superior in the area of electrical theory, was not up to the level of Edison in the area of predatory business tactics. It's not how you play the game, it's whether you win or lose. Once you've won, your version of events is the one that is recognized. The victors write the history books.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 07:07 PM
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You know that Edison invented the Electric chair, right?

He designed it specifically to use AC, to demonstrate that AC could be "just as deadly" as DC! (Frequent housefires had led the nation's newspapers to question having two DC cloth-wrapped wires a few inches from each other in every building in the city . . .)

Yes, he was definitely predatory in his attitude to Tesla. And that's my point. Newton was the same way towards critics of his work. Watson and Crick omitted the contributions of their female colleagues. That sort of thing is standard fare in research.

The spirit of discovery definitely takes a back seat to "the business."

It also makes for a lethally efficient business model.

.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 07:10 PM
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Einstein creditted his wife as being a collaborator on his relativity theory, inferring that she was more like a co-discoverer than an assistant. He also gave the entire financial reward for the Nobel prize to her.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 10:01 PM
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Children today....

Doesn't anyone want world peace any more?




posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 10:05 PM
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only if they don't have to pay for it out of their pocket. if it was free, then sure.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 10:10 PM
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Well... the genie in the bottle did say any miracle....

Tho i agree with u... opportunity cost... i'm sure we could all think of something much more... profitable... such as ... infinite riches...

There's always a cost :p



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 10:17 PM
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true, & I love yours. What a miracle that would be! A lovely wish indeed, raingirl.



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by I_s_i_s
What? No dancing around the fire with straw skirts? You're evil!


Straw skirts aren't revealing enough. I do try to be as evil as possible, but the constant attention to detail wears me down.



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by I_s_i_s
What? No dancing around the fire with straw skirts? You're evil!


Straw skirts aren't revealing enough. I do try to be as evil as possible, but the constant attention to detail wears me down.


I find you very hard to define as even a bit evil.... of course its hard to tell online, maybe you are much more so in person. But I see you as having great potential to succeed in whatever you pursue, so I must say you can do much better, I am certain. The devil is in the details, so true....



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 06:41 AM
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Actually, i never said i wanted world peace, i was just criticising everyone else for not wanting it



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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My miracle would be to turn this world into a utopian "Garden of Eden". A perfect world free of manmade chemicals, "additives", concrete, crime....a perfect world of rainbows, trees and love.

Haha, completely illogical "Hippie Pipe Dream", eh? But it would be wonderful....and it's a miracle. I don't want world peace if I still have to stare at these vulgar roads and buildings, I'd rather lose all my luxuries, watch everyone else lose theirs, and let the planet and nature have the peace for a change.



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by chebob
My miracle would be to turn this world into a utopian "Garden of Eden". A perfect world free of manmade chemicals, "additives", concrete, crime....a perfect world of rainbows, trees and love.

Haha, completely illogical "Hippie Pipe Dream", eh? But it would be wonderful....and it's a miracle. I don't want world peace if I still have to stare at these vulgar roads and buildings, I'd rather lose all my luxuries, watch everyone else lose theirs, and let the planet and nature have the peace for a change.


Hippie Commie! BURN BURN!



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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busy busy busy.

I find little time to come to my happy place, but still here occasionally, and briefly . . .

(smiling)



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

My point has been that "more than [a person] needs or deserves" is a highly subjective judgment.



Dr. Please tell the mrs to hit you with a rotten banana. No really I insist!

In this subjective argument, no matter how many examples I bring up, you will counter them with equally valid examples.

Lets all live like hippies in peace.

And please dont forget the banana!

[edit on 24-1-2006 by I_s_i_s]



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
I do try to be as evil as possible, but the constant attention to detail wears me down.


You know you're going to hell right?




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