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Give DNA or no job; A.F.P.

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posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Produkt
LMAO... Man, I make one slip and you draw furthur conclusion's. After all you said you didn't stop and think once that after I forgot to finish my sentence and said I'm all for humanism... Oh christ forget it. You won't listen to rationality anyways.


I don't know what you are avoiding saying there, but one 'slip', fine, two 'slips', umm, but put all you say, together, and I don't think a 'rational' person would believe they are actually 'slips'.

Trust me, there's no NWO.
Trust me, if there is, it's all good.
Trust me, if they do do bad, it's all for the best.
Trust me, if 'we' say you're 'useless', you're better off dead.
Trust me, I didn't mean the last thing I said, any of the times I said it.

That's a condenced version of how you 'speak', and I believe it's foolish to trust anyone who 'speaks' that way.

Humanism=Eugenics=Disposing of "Unwanted and Undesireable" People.




posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:51 PM
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Woo YAY! I'm officially one of them. Congrats


Or rather congrats me! *does a lil dance n gets down tonight*

However!

I don't recall saying Trust me, if there is, it's all good.
I don't recall saying if they do do bad it's all good.
I don't recall saying Trust me, if 'we' say you're 'useless', you're better off dead.

That last one is abit viscous. A rather awful way to construe a damn mistake in a futile attempt to mark me as a horrible person. Viscous indeed. I fully apologize for being human and prone to make mistake's as any other human is prone to do so also.

It would also help if you knew what humanism is. Definately not what you describe as eugenics.

I do still deny that the NWO you describe actually exist's. No one's out to get you. Trust me


[EDIT] Edumacation time.


en.wikipedia.org...

Humanism entails a commitment to the search for truth and morality through human means in support of human interests. In focusing on our capacity for self-determination, humanism rejects transcendental justifications, such as a dependence on faith, the supernatural, sacred texts, or religious creeds. Humanists endorse a recognition of a universal morality based on the commonality of human nature, suggesting that the long-term solutions to our problems cannot be parochial.




dictionary.reference.com...

pa·ro·chi·al
adj.
1. Of, relating to, supported by, or located in a parish.
2. Of or relating to parochial schools.
3. Narrowly restricted in scope or outlook; provincial: parochial attitudes.




en.wikipedia.org...

Because of its association with compulsory sterilization and the racial ideals of the Nazi Party, the word eugenics is rarely used by the advocates of such programs.

Only a few governments in the world had anything resembling eugenic programs today. In 1994 China passed the "Maternal and Infant Health Care Law" which included mandatory pre-marital screenings for "genetic diseases of a serious nature" and "relevant mental disease." Those who were diagnosed with such diseases were required either to not marry, agree to "long term contraceptive measures" or to submit to sterilization. This law was repealed in 2004.


Appearently this is the evil eugenics you are refering too. When in fact, this is the proper definition of eugenics.

Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through social intervention.

Not the same thing as humanism. Thank you for you time and effort to read this far down. Much love went into this edumacation event.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 03:50 AM
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Oh yes Produkt, I fully admit my impression could be wrong. I could be having one of those 'off' days. However it it is my honest, considered opinion, based on things I've learned, that have kept me alive against many odds.

The other reason I 'dared' to 'voice' this opinion is that I was recently 'tipped off' that the 'blind them with aggressive facts' tactic was backfiring and the 'Auw shucks, I'm just a simple man' method, that has worked so well for G.W. Jr., should be implemented, and whalla! you start hitting every thread with just that.

Again, I could well be wrong, but untill I find reason to concede such, I'll keep sharing what I've learned with those who want to avoid being sucked in.

This may sound off topic, but to me something as serious as collecting DNA for no truely justifiable reason, is not something that should be fobbed off by, "what's so wrong with it" reasoning and so I feel justified in warning people to concider your opinions before accepting them.

Conspiracy sites that keep denying conspiracies are doomed, and I don't want to see that happen to ATS.



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 05:15 AM
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There's just one major flaw in your concpiracy theory. You have not once proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a concpiracy. You took a mundane news article of an isolated case of DNA collection, in which the article fully explains in a reasonable manner exactly why the DNA sample's would be collected. You then furthur kid yourself that this "evil orginization" would need to collect DNA sample's for their "evil purposes" out in the open in the later year's of JUST the AFP while not seemingly once to consider they already have done so the moment any of us are born if they really did exist. Then, you take two very human slips in an attempt to discredit common sense and reason, which your obviously having trouble arguing against in an attempt to lash out at me because of the opposing view's I have against your's, for plainly obvious reason's. You furthur conclude that you'll share what you've learned when all you've clearly shown was the ability to twist a news article to mean something entirely different and put it forth as evidence that "they" are after our DNA.

That's just the condensed version.

P.S. No one's denying concpiracies. But, concpiracies that show lack of evidence are what truley hurt concpiracy theorist's and give most a bad name. The funny thing, those type's are also the one's with book deal's making money off the gullible. If you think your on to something, research, research, research.





[edit on 12-1-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by Produkt


..
Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through social intervention.
..



just like the swastika is a symbol of life, right? that's exactly what i'd expect from someone with 'homo iest deus' in his sig.

i didn't arrive at my present state of mind overnight, it was a painful and slow process, which cost vast amounts of energy and time. i do have lots and lots of links, but that's not really the purpose of this thread is it? besides, posting even some of the stuff is extremely detrimental to your lifeless materialist agenda.

but before i do that, let me remind each and every one of you that last time your alledgedly harmless eugenics was executed in the real plane, millions of people died a violent and unnecsary death. just for the record.


now to a more recent dodgy case:

en.wikipedia.org...

savejuarez.org...

www.libertadlatina.org...



use a search engine for the ciudad juarez murders if you're willing to go into some depth.

you know damn well that these murders are not just random and that they're organised, otherwise they wouldn't have the resources to commit and cover up this atrocity.


guess how they pick their victims? rape is a convenient excuse, but the fact remains that most of the victims remain mising for extended periods of time, enough time for medical experiments, perhaps even faostering your beloved eugenics.

to be clearer: with a databse, those criminals could just browse the web to pick their intended victims, if they aren't already doing that, k?


it makes me sick to hear people defend a system which is with high probability responsible for what what i just posted.


PS: look into the 9/11 and NWO sections read a few thread,s then come back and see how you feel, and i guarantee you, the orwell connection will see no mercy if you lose this.


[edit on 12-1-2006 by Long Lance]



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 06:25 AM
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Ah, so because someone misused the original meaning of the swastika it's now and forever eternally evil? That my friends is a closed mind. Homo est deus, meaning man take's responsability for his own destiny, yes I see the evil there. Because someone misused the practice of eugenics to kill innocent people it is now forever tainted, which is why modern practitioner's of eugenic's don't call it eugenics because people like you just don't understand eugenics and still label it as how naziism used it.




en.wikipedia.org...

Critics say investigations have ground to a halt because of corruption, incompetence and witness intimidation. They point out that when the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) was brought in to help, Chihuahua state officials rejected its findings. The serial slayings have continued despite numerous arrests and claims that they have been solved.

Various individuals have been arrested in connection with the murders. However, the Mexican police has been criticized for making arrests with little or no evidence and failing to detain alleged perpetrators, and they been accused of coercing people to confess to murders, destroying evidence, even kidnapping women.


So, the concpiracy here is the right out rejection of the finding's from the FBI, the corruption and intimidation of witnesses. Yes I agree, horrible crime. There are however plenty of such cases throughout the world where people are serial killer's and rapist's. This doesn't make it organized, just one guy or more who've gotten away with it due to incompetence.



www.libertadlatina.org...

There is no reliable information available about the fate of the children, but anti-crime and children's rights organisations believe that most are abducted by illicit organisations, which hand over the minors to families in Europe and the United States and through illegal adoptions, said Juan Estrada, president of the Confederation. Others are kidnapped by members of their own families or are victims of child pornography rings, and in rare cases abducted children may be killed for their organs, which are then sold on the black market for transplants, he said.

An unknown woman asked López to hand her baby over so that she could receive vaccinations. The wait which was to last just minutes turned into months. "They stole my six-month-old daughter in April. Please, help me.


Now I understand where your getting the organized plot from. Are your sure this applies to all cases however? This article doesn't even apply to just that first article, but all of mexico. Which show's the amount and level of crime in that area of the world.




guess how they pick their victims? rape is a convenient excuse, but the fact remains that most of the victims remain mising for extended periods of time, enough time for medical experiments, perhaps even faostering your beloved eugenics.


Surprisingly, not one of those articles came to that conclusion. Again we see the example of word play and twisting to mean something entirely different.




to be clearer: with a databse, those criminals could just browse the web to pick their intended victims, if they aren't already doing that, k?


There is no such database on the internet, nor would any government be stupid enough to put such a database on the public internet.




it makes me sick to hear people defend a system which is with high probability responsible for what what i just posted.


No one's defending anything, just clearing out the garbage tis all. Posting artlicle's saying one thing then inputing your opinion on what it "really" mean's does not the truth make.

What make's you think I haven't been reading anything else? I'm fully aware of the current situation regarding 9/11 and of the government's involvment for it's effort's of gaining allies for it's illegal pre-emptive strike against Saddam. However, despite bad politics, there hasn't been a single shred of credible evidence for an NWO nor an orwellian society.

Here's a quote for you. quaere verum - seek the truth

[edit on 12-1-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Produkt
...


Surprisingly, not one of those articles came to that conclusion. Again we see the example of word play and twisting to mean something entirely different.


...

There is no such database on the internet, nor would any government be stupid enough to put such a database on the public internet.
..



sure, would be bad journalism to claim something like this without proof, right? consider the circumstances, though, and you'll see that victims' age ranging from 15-25, most of whom weren't married (a sex killer that busy wouldn't have time to stalk his victims extensively, would he?) no kidnappings were foiled, iirc, and somehow, many victims' bodies are still missing (how to dispose of hundreds of bodies? unless you have colse to unlimited resources), and many were found mutilated.

median age 20, variation 5 years is, unmarried - well, a tell-tale sign of screening.

the rest is semantics, it wouldn't be public unless some brave hacker made it so, but the criminals would obviously find ways to steal the desired data, espcially considering their ability to thwart any effort to either catch them or at least make their death business too risky in the region.



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 07:31 AM
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There are plenty of example's of rapist's who pick victims of young age's. As you said, most were unmarried. If they were screening, then what were they screening for? Married or unmarried? Let's also not forget, Mexico is a big place with plenty of places to hide thing's.

All your claiming is your personal opinion on what YOU believe is "really" going on. You show not one single shred of evidence that what you think is happening is true. Personal opinion and twisting of the fact's does not make something reality. I'm sorry, but that's the plain old boring truth.

You think I'm just dismissing this? As far as dismissing it, I can't say for sure, but the evidence presented says otherwise. It would do one best to research fully and present factual evidence to be taken seriously when presenting a case such as this or any case for that matter. Why do you think concpiracy theorist's get such a bad name? Wild claim's, lack of evidence, twisting of the fact's and pure word play to make other's see what they see. It's called research and it won't kill you.... honest.


[edit on 12-1-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by Produkt

All your claiming is your personal opinion on what YOU believe is "really" going on. You show not one single shred of evidence that what you think is happening is true.



LL presented a pile of evidence and references to substantiate his claims. You presented NONE - you simply parrot the party line and attack.




You are a crazy loon.



MODERATOR. This is a personal attack.




It's called research and it won't kill you.... honest.


So where's yours? This thread is FULL of your posts - but no links.

Do you think only those who question the status quo need to defend their position?





posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 09:10 AM
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LL presented a pile of evidence and references to substantiate his claims. You presented NONE - you simply parrot the party line and attack.


What evidence? I replied to his so called evidence. One site in which completly contradict's itself and another with a doctored photograph being passed off as evidence. Again, I ask... what evidence?




MODERATOR. This is a personal attack.


you're clearly Orwellian
(I'm sorry, but that is abit offensive.)

btw, i feel harrassed by your post so i'll kindly ask the HSS to put you into jail indefintiely under terrorist's provisions, k?
(threat right there)

but WHY would YOU give an anonymous organisation holding a database such tremendous power?
(implicating me for something I haven't done.)

Thank you for declaring you believe, "DISPOSING of "useless" PEOPLE is A GOOD THING"
(never made such claims, obvious attempt to paint me as the bad guy)

you agree with the ideas of, "the EVIL Illuminati".
(same as above, despite my consistent denail of an evil illuminati)

These could be taken as personal attacks as well. As I do find some of the statement's rather offensive, if not annoying. I will however edit my loony statement for the sake of political correctness.

Lastly you obviously haven't been paying attention. I haven't yet made a single claim and therefore have nothing to provide evidence for. All I've done is interject my personal opinion based on common sense and rationality. Yes, and pointed out the numerous occasion's of other poster's falsifying new's articles to mean something completly different then what is posted on the article. I'm sorry but personal opinion of what a news article "really" means is not direct evidence nor proof of the point your trying to make. I will admit tho, I did make the statement that there is no database on the internet. That is a personal opinion of mine however and one based on common sense and rationality. For example... We have credit card databases all over the internet and every once in awhile we hear of crackers gaining access to these yet not one account of anyone breaking into some dna database that some fake evil orginization has on all of us.



Do you think only those who question the status quo need to defend their position?


You assuming I don't question the "status quo"? I do believe there are concpiracies and secret's to be uncovered. However I don't stand for the attempt to defile news articles and twisting them to meet my end results and I will interject my opinion when such cases present's itself as it is dishonest and distastefull. This is a dicussion board, not a only reply to this thread if you believe the same thing as me board.

[edit on 12-1-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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Wait, what's just happened!?




posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by mashup
Wait, what's just happened!?



I took offense to Produkt's calling LongLance a crazy loon, and rightly pointed out that it was a personal insult (disallowed on this board).

Let's get this thread back on track - it's about new federal laws that criminalize behaviour previously under local jurisdictions, right?





posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 10:48 AM
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Which I did edit and point out some dealt towards me. Of course that doesn't make the one I did right and it was in jest, but now edited out so as not to offend those it wasn't directed towards.

The topic of the thread is the collection of DNA of new recruit's in the AFP and how the topic originator believe's this tie's into a possible NWO plot. The topic your thinking about I believe is discussed on another thread.

Here -> www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Produkt

The topic of the thread is the collection of DNA of new recruit's in the AFP and how the topic originator believe's this tie's into a possible NWO plot. The topic your thinking about I believe is discussed on another thread.

Here -> www.abovetopsecret.com...


Oh yeah. Hard to tell when things get sidetracked.


...And who was defending eugenics theory, whilst simultaneously insisting that collecting DNA data is totally innocent and won't lead to any kind of predjudicial treatment whatsoever?





posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Produkt
There are plenty of example's of rapist's who pick victims of young age's. As you said, most were unmarried. If they were screening, then what were they screening for?

..



for people who wouldn't be missed immediately obviously.

the details speak for themselves, the mere fact that such 'forces' are at work lead me to the conclusion that tools which could easily be used against us should not be created in the first place. especially if there's nothing to gain, and make no mistake, another way to keep tags on us is NOT in our interest. (that's the official purpose, mind you)

if your view of the subject differs, fine, i think it's obvious to everyone why that's the case. (see eugenics comment)


PS: Orwell/ian is not a cuss word, if you called me an anarchist, isolationist, capitalist, socialist, whatever, i wouldn't complain either, since these are descriptive, not purposely derogatory.



[edit on 12-1-2006 by Long Lance]



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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Ah see, Suzy is mixing the evil naziism use of eugenics with the proper eugenics. Admittingly there are some groups who abuse the term eugenics and other's who slander it to all hell. The original intent behind eugenics still hasn't changed in definition despite all against it. Equating the AFP DNA collection with eugenic's while citing a news article that doesn't discuss anything of the sort is just wrong to me. Nor does it describe an NWO plot in even the slightest. At most it's conjecture and twisting the intended messege of the article.

The link you provided is yet again another example of naziism eugenics and not the original eugenics. As I stated earlier this is why most don't use the term eugenics anymore because people have a hard time discerning the two.



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 11:13 AM
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Eugenics is, was and always has been about proving that the rich and powerful are genetically superior - and that the poor are poor simply because they are genetically inferior. Just read Galton, the Father of Eugenics.

Eugenics is nothing more or less than an attempt to legitimize the status quo by "scientific" criteria.

Eugenics has been repackaged and renamed things like "Quantitative Genetics" but it hasn't changed, and it hasn't gone away.





posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 11:25 AM
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I honestly do agree with eugenics. I don't agree the poor are poor due being genetically inferior, that's more of a problem with society, which I believe is where humanism would kick in.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing. Not everything is bad.

Anyway's, our planet can only hold so many people and eventually without some form of contolled population growth we're going to outgrow our planet and royally screw ourselve's in the process. I'd rather not see that happen and I doubt anyone else would also. It might not effect us today, but it certainly will affect our offspring future generation's to come. And improving the genetic stock, while keeping population at a limit that our planet can accomidate isn't bad in any way at all. Your improving the human species while at the same time ensuring the planet doesn't get over populated. Look at china, they have population control already due to over population. It's not going to get any better if nothing is done.



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 12:08 PM
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After talking to a friend of mine about this...

Some would see it as playing god. Especially the religous folk. Other's still hold to the idea of naziism. IDK, sound's right they way I picture it in my head. Hopefully after the human genome is fully fully mapped and we know everything about our genetic's we can start working on genetic cure's that way rather then using eugenics.



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through social intervention. The goals have variously been to create more intelligent people, save society resources, lessen human suffering and reduce health problems.


Wikipedia

People say the end doesn't justify the means. Although, what would the method be?
How did this thread come to the discussion of eugenics?



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