Hi all. first post here
just to weigh in on the debate.

First off, even Lenny Bruce, way back, made the point that Jackie was clearly (and rightfully, in his view) trying get the hell away from the area - by climbing off the seat and onto the back of the car - and it was misrepresented as being 'an attempt to call the agent' - because that's what Good People do. Meantime, its just not true.

Next, with the stabilised version of the Zapruder film, there're a number of oddities that seem to emerge - the most overt one is this - and I assume
folks have no doubt run across the 'Zapruder film hoax' concept, and it bears looking at again - with this 'normalised' image. One of the most jarring things to me that becomes instantly visible and does lend some credence to the idea that perhaps the Zapruder film is indeed a composite of some kind:

run the film, and simply pay attention to the overall 'movement' of everyone in the car. Forget about what's unfolding, just look at the body movements of everyone. Spool the film back and forth, purely watching the movements.

It becomes rapidly apparent that - at the moment where allegedly the car is supposedly 'speeding up' - everyone in the car jerks forward, exactly as if they would, if the brakes had been hit.
BUT the car 'appears' to be speeding up. This simply isn't possible.
(Ever try jerking forward with most of your body, in a car thats rapidly accelerating? G forces push you back. Yet everyone in this car, jerks forward at the moment its supposedly 'speeding up to get away'. ) Exactly as if the car interior is showing a scene where 'the brakes have been hit' and the people are reacting accordingly.
This anomaly - in combo with a lot of witnesses describing a scene of the car slowing down almost to a halt during the shooting - which ISN'T reflected in the apparently 'real' Zapruder film, does make me wonder..
And its no good saying 'well everyone is 'flinching' from the sound - the shooting's over, and all the body movements are showing people jerking forward at the same time, as a car's brakes are hit.. even though the visual overall shows 'a car speeding up and away'..

You might also want to look at the abrupt synchronised way that the Govenor and his wife 'fold up' and lie down so perfectly..

that's my two cents worth..

I was of the understanding that the fatal shot came from the sewer using an exploding bullet,which would make sence as the shots tragectory was at an upward angle,and as far as a get away what a perfect way to go undetected,happens to be where the limo stopped as well,of all the theorys that makes the most sence to me,if it were from grassy knoll bullet would have been at a downward angle

Greetings-

Just thought I'd throw some ideas around on this topic. First off I truly believe the shooting of JFK was a downright conspiracy. And I do believe the Govt. and the mob were involved together to pull this off. As I watched the Zapruder film the other day I got to thinking. If this was a planned lynching, then the entire event had to be worked out, meaning the minute Kennedy got off the plane in Dallas he had to be strategically placed in the limo so ALL of the snipers had at least one good shot at Kennedy. Sure Oswald could probably have picked him off from anywhere inside the limo, but they wanted to make sure Kennedy died on this day, so they wanted to make sure all the snipers had a good shot at him, including the fatal head shot, which came from either the Grassy knoll or more likely from the sewer. So is it possible that someone who greeted Kennedy as he got off the plane and seated him into the limo knew what the plan was that day? Just a thought, there might be a connection or it might just be completely ironic. Any ideas are welcome!

Matt

Who will ever know? with review you can see that many of the videos/pictures occuring on the day seem to be fake. with NO eye witnesses at this time alive or willing to testify to a camera about the truth that happend that day we will never know. my opinion is that the fatal shot came from infront of kennedy at the time, could be the driver, could be the grassy knoll, could be from the sewer, all i know is that the CIA did a GREAT job of covering up their tracks/witnesses/evidence. but i gotta give it to ya, you cats at ATS are slick and have caught a lot of mistakes in the films and conspiracies, im sticking to this thread and a couple other JFK threads on this site to see what new news pops up over time, good job to everyone hear at ATS that keeps posting new information, lovin it!!

that NIX film has gotta be fake. don't know if anyone's noticed it but just after JFK is shot you can see the front of the car behind it. the drivers head seems to go straight through the windscreen for a second.

Heres a few things to think on when talking about the JKF conspiracy.


-Sewer shot = IMPOSSIBLE
+There were a total of 2 storm drains.(3 today)
+Both storm drains had no angle to even see the president. The third, which wasnt put in until 20 years later, would have put the shooter in the wide open where all of the railroad workers could have seen him. Not to mention he would have about .5 seconds to even get a glimpse of the president, trees were obstructing that view.
-Magic Bullet Theory = HARD TO CONCLUDE
+The route that the bullet took was a very odd one, shown in many films to
turn in mid air, they never seem to mention that there are several things in the human body that can cause a bullet to change its course.
+The problem came when the police showed the bullet, it looked as if it had never been used. Not a single scratch on the bullet. The police also found this bullet lying on the Governors stretcher, not in him. That is where the second problem comes from, not many bullets just fall out of your thigh.
-Impossible physical action from the President
+He appears to lurch forward when hit from the front, this is a trick played by the film itself. If you compare his position to something in the car you can easily see he is actually forced backward and then collapses into his wives lap.
-Impossible "Head Turns" from people in the car
+Again, this isn't a Sony Digicam...its one of the first color cameras to come out, the film quality itself isn't very good at all. If you look at other old home videos people do appear to move rather jittery at times, ESPECIALLY at far distances.


I could go on forever, I got most of my info from movies and articles on the internet...I really don't have a side on this matter however. If it was planned they did a good job of it. If it wasn't planned, and a crazed Communist with a $20 gun did shoot the President in the back of the neck and head from the 6th floor of the building, and then get downstairs to meet a cop, then walk 5 miles to shoot a cop, then be found in a movie theater and killed the next day...well that was just a crazy day now wasn't it?

I watched a documentry this morning on discovery science ,sorry i cant recall what it was called ,but it focussed on the differant photographers around the Plaza that day.

They recreated all of the photographers fields of view and equipment and the problem with the Nix film is that he loaded his camera with the wrong film he used film for indoor use in his camera and didn't correct the filter which could have alieviated the problem.

When they recreated nix they placed a guy near the grassy knoll and he was indistinguisable in the resulting film but when they tried again using the correct film a figure was visable and even more so with a more advanced period camera.

It also pointed out that if Zapruder had carried on filming just a little longer he could have had a very clear view of the grassy knoll.

basicly the programme looked at the exhasberating fact that the areas where the gunman/men were supposed to have been were either filmed for a time like the window at the depositry only to have the camera person move his /her field of view at critiacal moments.

I also have to mention the fact that in this programme didn't show the gunman from the film mentioned at the start of this thread.

Sorry if this is old news to you hardend Jfk conspiricy types but i just thought id share

-Magic Bullet Theory = HARD TO CONCLUDE
+The route that the bullet took was a very odd one, shown in many films to
turn in mid air, they never seem to mention that there are several things in the human body that can cause a bullet to change its course.
+The problem came when the police showed the bullet, it looked as if it had never been used. Not a single scratch on the bullet. The police also found this bullet lying on the Governors stretcher, not in him. That is where the second problem comes from, not many bullets just fall out of your thigh.

Actually it was just the other night a guy did just exactly that. It was a show on History or Discovery. They used some kind of gel and animal bones to make the targets and set up the scene just like the assasination. They mimicked the scene the best they could. The only difference is the round landed on the govs thigh instead of penetrating. Other than that, all the same wounds and the round was almost undamaged.

If it wasn't planned, and a crazed Communist with a $20 gun did shoot the President in the back of the neck and head from the 6th floor of the building, and then get downstairs to meet a cop, then walk 5 miles to shoot a cop, then be found in a movie theater and killed the next day...well that was just a crazy day now wasn't it?

Not all that strange. There's been far stranger happenings. Folks act like you gotta be a genious to load, aim and fire a rifle. Actually it would be far easier for one guy to assasinate the President than a team. A 5, 10 or 15 man team, the logistics alone would be a nightmare. Think about it. If I wanted to assasinate the President, I would hire one guy, not 3 or 4 or 5 or 6.... that's just that many more people that could rat me out. If he gets nabbed, that's only one guy I have to worry about. Always the fewer involved the better chance of success.

ichi_and_scratchy - Gotta agree with almost everything you said.

The thing is, when will it all come out? Will people every agree "Yes, it's a fact, so and so happened" or will it be left in mystery for ever? I think the people and family close to him deserve to know.

I'm new to the site. I read through a lot of the posts. Here's some thoughts.

1) I have never seen or heard of a human body moving toward a shooter. Human bodies, head shots included, ALWAYS move away from the shooter. Ask a trained sniper.

2) The official autopsy report signed by JFK's personal physician places the back wound at the 3rd thoracic vertebra. Well down from the neck. There is also testimony that Humes probed this wound and found it to be at a 45 degree downward angle and he hit the end of the wound with his finger tip.

3) The parkland doctor who performed the trach said he used a small wound in the throat and expanded it. He also said the autopsy photo of the wound did not depict the trach wound he made.

4) The first Discovery show, Beyond the Magic Bullet, shows the two ballistic dummys about 10" different in height. Films of 11/22/63 show JFK and Connelly almost even at the shoulder. The show depicts the shot entering high in the shoulder/neck region, and exiting the sternum area. Stop right there. This does not support the Warren Commission report.

5) The second Discovery show, Target Car, shows two things. One the Grassy Knoll shot would have left a wound in the left side of JFK's skull. No wound. Shot didn't hit JFK. Two it shows that the fatal head shot from the rear would have killed the driver.

6) All the Doctors and trained Technicians who witnessed JFK's wounds at Parkland and Bethesda who describe a "gaping wound to the back of the head" were apparently mistaken according to the Warren Commission.

7) Gerald Ford, a WC commissioner admitted to having the back wound moved to the neck/shoulder junction.

8) It is documented that the WC "adjusted" more than one time line to fit it's conclusions.

9) No one has placed Oswald in the 6th floor window at 12:30 on 11/22/63. All evidence is probative, not conclusive. All evidence that Oswald shot Tippet is also probative, not conclusive.

Let me know what you think after you do some research on line. Ballistic Findings from JFK Autopsy is really good.

Thanks

No gunshot wounds were fired from the fence. It was a red herring or a dummie shot to create a distraction for the driver who actually fired the fatal shot at 313.