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Considerations of Why Full Disclosure About Aliens May Be Impossible At This Time, Sorry Folks

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posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Defragger
One of the things he said that caught my attention had to do with disclosure. He said (paraphrased) that disclosure wont happen until the the majority of public at large are willing to blank check forgive their respective governments for holding the secrets that they have for as long as they have. . .... . . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . Are most of us ready to hand out blanket forgiveness to our leaders for potentially duping the common man for they last 50-60 years? For potentially intentionally holding human advancement back simply to keep a secret?


Defragger,

That is the reason at the top of my list, but i wasn't going to open this one up, until someone else had already done so.

The implications of the will of the people makes us responsible for why full disclosure isn't.

This reason is the most profound. It makes us responsible. It makes us the conspirators, and the message from the messengers from thousands of years throughout our history are then confirmed. Religion plays a role.

And, an interesting twist:

Do the aliens also require our forgiveness?

edited to add:
Are we the conspiritors? Are we the ones responsible for FULL disclosure being withheld from us?

this was the real reason i put the sad face emblem next to the thread title in the forum.

i knew you guys wouldn't let me, you, and us down. Now, we are beginning to want the truth bad enough. Now this thread takes on a new face.

[edit on 10-1-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]




posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 05:16 PM
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The implications of the will of the people makes us responsible for why full disclosure isn't.

This reason is the most profound. It makes us responsible. It makes us the conspirators, and the message from the messengers from thousands of years throughout our history are then confirmed. Religion plays a role.


I do think that the will of the people plays a role. It tempers the perception of those holding the secrets of what the end result of disclosure would be. Not only are they continuing to perpetuate the secrecy, they will ultimately be responsible for anything bad that happens to the world socialogically, economically and theologically from the act of disclosure and the weight of the secrecy involved. I agree that unfortunately religion will play a role, not in the sense that the profoundness of the revelation will rock the theological world (it will without a doubt do so) but in that it will affect the decisions being made about how disclosure will come about. In essence, the release of this information could potentially destroy the belief systems of millions of people or at least make many question what they believe in. How does the mainstream faithful fit ET's and their belief systems (which I would think some civilizations would certainly still have, even morals maybe), how do they start to incorporate this new information into their daily lives? How would any of us accomplish that? Yes, we are responsible for how we react and handle what would be the most significant event in human history, IMHO. I do think that al lot of people would have to find a way to compromise the facts with their faiths.


And, an interesting twist:

Do the aliens also require our forgiveness?


Nah, there is probably protocol in place to deal with situations like this. Not a "prime directive" but maybe they have dealt with this a time or two and realize what ramifications are of nursing along a less advanced civilization. I would presume to think they would not take our reaction or lack of one personally per se. They may even be concerned for our welfare in some odd way - or not. Hate to drift back to a Yodaism but "the future is cloudy, emotion makes the future difficult to see".

Let me change the tenor and stance of my previous post a bit. Lets throw forgiveness out the window. It may be an issue for many people but its an emotional ultimatum and for the ones holding the box closed emotion will certainallly make them nervous. People have started shooting others when emotionally charged over issues miniscule in proportion to this. What about blanket immunity to those charged with oaths of secrecy where no crime has been committed? Save dealing with forgiveness for future genrations and historians. Relieve those buried and undoubtly overburdened under the secret by their oaths to their respective governments and give them the judicial and political freedom to open disclosure without repercussion from any superior authorities. Would that work? Could we (globally) be able to come to terms with an allowance like this?

[edit on 10-1-2006 by Defragger]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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What about blanket immunity to those charged with oaths of secrecy where no crime has been committed?


As I recall this was actually asked for with respect to the disclosure project. It was not granted by the government. I feel they (the government) used the old stand-by blanket, national security. Strange, that such an issue is sighted when it's been stated all along by the airforce that UFOs pose no threat to national security.

Here is another legal argument: If the DoD says UFOs are NOT a matter of national security, then how can they compel a person to take an oath to protect national security when it comes to UFOs?

It seems that taking an oath to protect a non issue (national security) in fact surfaces the truth that UFOs are indeed a national security issue. The point, why take an oath for something that does not exist?

Certainly, this point is not quite on point with this thread, unless the points above show that the government itself is not ready for world disclosure, and because of that fact is holding our traditional pardigms hostage to the truth of the matter.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 07:31 PM
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Sorry guys, this is going to be a long read. Clear your callender for about 10 minutes, and tell everyone to shut up. You get distracted when having to put up with too much of their noise, and you are trying to think here. Again, sorry for the long post, i won't make it a habit. Promise.

I knew this would end up happening. To date I've been incorporating complex and extremely speculative concepts into relatively short easy to read sentences. With words most people could identify, all be it in slightly different perspective (relative to eachother, the contributors); but now we are rounding the bend.

In our quest to try to delve into our own psychis, our own minds, to see what would have to exist, what variables could there be, to justify why we would participate in such a secret being with held from the common folk, our tone will most certainly become deeper, in both ideas, and concepts.

I urge all contributors to keep in mind that we do need the input of people that i regret to say, may shy away from rhetoric that is too intense for them.

But, we do need and want their input don't we? They're voice is important is it not? This is why i will use whatever words i can to tactfully assult anyone who tries to be unjustly belittling in this thread. If your points and arguements are just, and you know it, no need to get rude about it. No need to start calling people stupid or anything of the sort. I personally highly value the thoughts of everyone, and there simply is truth in every statement made, and a hunger for truth in every question asked.

So, for the benefit of all possible contributors, no matter age, no matter the level of education, no matter their personal views, try not to be too over the top with the complexity of our presentation of thought processes.

In other words, if you think it is a little hard to decypher for someone else, then restate the same concepts a simpler way. Just like i just did.

Now, i said that to say this.

Defragger, you almost fragged my brain on that one. And further more, i thank you for it. May i please have another?

Actually that is half way right. I had to read some of that three times before i was sort of sure what it was you were saying/asking.

And again, i don't want to put too many people off. And i won't unless they start acting better than anyone. because i believe in equality, and serve the ideals of equality as best i can.

Now, let me take a stab at it Defragger (i like your screen name, by the way.)


Originally posted by Defragger

The implications of the will of the people makes us responsible for why full disclosure isn't.

This reason is the most profound. It makes us responsible. It makes us the conspirators, and the message from the messengers from thousands of years throughout our history are then confirmed. Religion plays a role.


I do think that the will of the people plays a role. It tempers the perception of those holding the secrets of what the end result of disclosure would be.


I would agree. The "Conspiritors" wouldn't be totally responsible, especially if we the people were not capable, or willing to recieve the truth. We do play a role.


Not only are they continuing to perpetuate the secrecy, they will ultimately be responsible for anything bad that happens to the world socialogically, economically and theologically from the act of disclosure and the weight of the secrecy involved.


True. But, are they chosen by a need to know basis, truly? Or, having sought the "power", were they cursed by their obligations of responsibility?

FEMA,
Incidently, this is what i sort of danced around with the "red faces in D.C." statement you made, not that you are totally wrong. I'm sure there are people who are in power, who are uninformed, and do not believe. But, the people who do know (if it is all true), most certainly would be more relieved. Imagine the weight of secrecy and guilt uplifting from them. Their obligation and responsibility negated. If any of this is true, some would most certainly be relieved. Others that know? Depends if they are pesimists, or optimists, or merely observers/calculators.


I agree that unfortunately religion will play a role, not in the sense that the profoundness of the revelation will rock the theological world (it will without a doubt do so) but in that it will affect the decisions being made about how disclosure will come about. In essence, the release of this information could potentially destroy the belief systems of millions of people or at least make many question what they believe in. How does the mainstream faithful fit ET's and their belief systems (which I would think some civilizations would certainly still have, even morals maybe), how do they start to incorporate this new information into their daily lives?


This is actually 2 sentences, and then 2 questions in the same sentence. This is why i made that whole spill at the beginning. But, don't worry about it. I've been just as guilty. I know what it is like to think faster than you can type. And, trying to get it down, before you are distracted or forget the thought is also a challenge. So, i certainly can't blaim you for doing anything wrong. I'm just trying to keep very complex speculation as simple as we can.

Returning to the point at hand. Religion.

I know you are right on this one. However, how strong is their faith in the first place if any life anywhere other than Earth would cause them to question it? Also, this brand of thinking is usually indicative (normal) for people who may believe "GOD" is a concept devised by the minds of men.

If there is a GOD, then surely our celesrtial visitors would know it as well.

And I, having witnessed and experienced things that no one can prove possible, believe there is indeed a well qualified supreme consciousness.

I believe there is an ULTIMATE observer.

The proof of aliens would not, could not take this from me.

If only everyone who's faith would possibly come into question had the faith they say they do, they could not loose it by meeting a little grey bug eyed geologist. If a geologist that ran out of rocks to study on another world came here to study our rock, how does this have to make us question GOD's existance?

We may find they (aliens), have similar belief systems. And what if they don't? Well, look at the diversity in faiths on Earth, and yet our population is growing. Tells me our race would rather make love, than fight over God. Although i know this is not always the case, i'm sure an outside observer might also take note of this fact.



I do think that al lot of people would have to find a way to compromise the facts with their faiths.


I know you are right about this, and it is unfortunate. But, how great was their faith to begin with? Obviously their internal beliefs are at fault, not GOD's, or the aliens.

So, again, this may make us the conspiritors. This puts us at fault. For questioning GOD, and for expecting the worse.

If we expect the worst, always, then it stands to reason it will be all we are prepared for. Again, optimism vs. pesimism (spelling?). Sorry if i mispelled that, i don't use it all that often



Let me change the tenor and stance of my previous post a bit. Lets throw forgiveness out the window.


No, not the window. Here . .. . .

I'll put it on the back burner, we'll come check it in awhile .. . .. . .


It may need to cook for awhile, i don't think we let it thaw out enough. It's an important part of the meal. And we haven't explored it totally. So, we'll just put it off to the side, and see where this path leads. It will help us work up an appitite. . . .



It may be an issue for many people but its an emotional ultimatum and for the ones holding the box closed emotion will certainallly make them nervous.


I'm not convinced about the nervous part. I think it is a major assumption to think the ones (people who might know about aliens that might exists, and might be visiting us) who know the truth, or alot of it, are paranoid, or nervous, or afraid, or aprehensive. How would they function in society? Truth is this is why we are here (in this thread), to try to figure out what possible intentions those who would know would not share openly with us.

We are speculating as to why we would do what we claim they are doing.



People have started shooting others when emotionally charged over issues miniscule in proportion to this.


I think you are on to something here. I can see your point. But, what if some of these said exchanges where a hoax, themselves? A wag the dog type of thing? What if it was not always as it seemed, but they (so called conspiritors) were just doing some of the things you think fit into this category for a purpose? I don't think human nature is always this ugly. Being emotionaly charged may affect the way people act when overly negative, but remember: It is only because they fear loosing something it is they love, or fear of someone they love being diminished. Which again may turn us back to religion. But, not always.

What is it we stand to loose?

What is it we are afraid of losing?

And a real important question:

Is it human nature to manifest their fears, if they are not capable of resolving them within their own minds?

I think so. Because, consciously, we don't have the variables. Create the variables, then we can face our fears. I see partially concsious people doing this all the time. They manifest their own fears in our shared reality, instead of finding a way to resolve them within. Which, sorry to say, may again point us in a direction of BTS, and their topics and their forums. So, we will steer away.



What about blanket immunity to those charged with oaths of secrecy where no crime has been committed?


Sorry, not sure what you meant here.



Save dealing with forgiveness for future genrations and historians. Relieve those buried and undoubtly overburdened under the secret by their oaths to their respective governments and give them the judicial and political freedom to open disclosure without repercussion from any superior authorities. Would that work? Could we (globally) be able to come to terms with an allowance like this?


Again, could you elaborate. Just rephrase it? I think i may understand, but don't want to make any assumptions. Speculation and conjecture, sure, if they are not in confliction with what the truth is. Assumption, is creating facts where we have none. I think there is a difference, but it is hard to explain why.

Sorry for the long post, but Defragger got me thinking. Sorry again for the long read, guys.

I'll make a better effort to keep it shorter.


[edit on 10-1-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by FEMA

What about blanket immunity to those charged with oaths of secrecy where no crime has been committed?


As I recall this was actually asked for with respect to the disclosure project. It was not granted by the government. I feel they (the government) used the old stand-by blanket, national security. Strange, that such an issue is sighted when it's been stated all along by the airforce that UFOs pose no threat to national security.

Here is another legal argument: If the DoD says UFOs are NOT a matter of national security, then how can they compel a person to take an oath to protect national security when it comes to UFOs?

It seems that taking an oath to protect a non issue (national security) in fact surfaces the truth that UFOs are indeed a national security issue. The point, why take an oath for something that does not exist?

. .. .. .. and because of that fact is holding our traditional pardigms hostage to the truth of the matter.


After reading all my crap, thought it was important to bring this up front and make this comment:

The way you say it, makes it sound like we are being lied to!





posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 12:28 AM
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The way you say it, makes it sound like we are being lied to!


Well, that possibility exists in the comment to be sure. The comment comes full circle to the concept of forgiveness where it relates to those who have held the truth at arm's length from the general population for so long.

For instance, on one side we have complete disclosure and what that means to man, on the other side we have those who perpetuated the lie. Is the lie, and retribution for it, going to overshadow complete disclosure? I'm betting a dollar to a doughnut that it won't. The lie will fade into the background pretty quickly other than for a brief moment in time when the question is put: "Why the big lie?"



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 12:31 AM
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With regard to the lie . . .

Thought I might add that when asked about the lie, that DoD gent I talked with said that he felt the government had no right to lie either, and when he put this directly to a superior officer they answered thusly: "Far greater men than you or I make these decisions." That was the only answer he ever got when he asked what gave the government the right to lie.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by FEMA

The way you say it, makes it sound like we are being lied to!


Well, that possibility exists in the comment to be sure. The comment comes full circle to the concept of forgiveness where it relates to those who have held the truth at arm's length from the general population for so long.


I'm exhausted right now, going to bed. But, i will take a better look at the rest of your reply when my brain is acting brainy.

As for the withholding from the general populatiotion for so long.

This may be a little outside the boundries of this forum, but i wonder if we'd be permitted to take it there, if it is where our inquiries led us . .. . .???

What if it has been being kept for generations. What if we could trace the geneology of current world rulers back, to some of the same bloodlines ruling hundreds, if not thousands of years ago?

Would this effect our theories about conspiracies? If there were truth in it, but then again, who is responsible for creating history on national, and global scales?



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 12:58 AM
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What if it has been being kept for generations. What if we could trace the geneology of current world rulers back, to some of the same bloodlines ruling hundreds, if not thousands of years ago?


Whether the thread goes to answer the question of the lie or not remains to be seen. But your question above has spawned some profoundly alarming questions.

If your postulation were true, then one would be utterly compelled to ask: "To what end was this done? Would history have played out any different, and how many lives might have been saved, or lost, by knowing?"

Your question opens a ocean tanker full of questions.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by FEMA

What if it has been being kept for generations. What if we could trace the geneology of current world rulers back, to some of the same bloodlines ruling hundreds, if not thousands of years ago?


Whether the thread goes to answer the question of the lie or not remains to be seen. But your question above has spawned some profoundly alarming questions.


I have reason to believe my question above is in fact (not speculating) justified. I do not ask this question to invoke fear, nor hate in the hearts of the souls reading this post, but to address the possible indications of the burdens some bloodlines may be carrying. I know this sounds wierd. However, the term "Sins of the father" do ring out in the recesses of my psychi. It may be possible, and i've seen some books to indicate so, that in fact the same families have indeed been holding on to power, wealth, and political power for generations. If this is to be the case, then how? Why? And do they really benefit?

This will take some studying of resources i may not even have access to for the next 4 months. But, if they did have within the families souls who were just, then it stands to reason they would most definatly left a bread crumb trail for the non-nobility to follow. Secret Societies may indeed play a role, a trail perhaps to follow left in the traditions. Again, these concepts would lead us to another thread, unless permitted to follow the evidence where it leads us. And, if no evidence is found, at least we would have exhausted the possibilities. If this were to happen, we just backstep to the fork in the road that we began at, and venture down another plausible path.

Asking the questions. Speculation serves us well, but must be held in an even regard to the facts. Can we leap frog over some unknown variables to connect the dots with speculation? The dots being the facts, of course. The speculation being the the pencil lead that connects the dots. But, we would have to be careful not to make too many specualative concepts to connect the dots, because then we would be bordering on the verge of assumption. And speculation to me is not the same as assumptions. Assumptions are speculation stated as fact.


Originally posted by FEMA

What if it has been being kept for generations. What if we could trace the geneology of current world rulers back, to some of the same bloodlines ruling hundreds, if not thousands of years ago?


Whether the thread goes to answer the question of the lie or not remains to be seen. But your question above has spawned some profoundly alarming questions.



I re-posted the quotes to see what must be accomplished to venture down such a path. We would indeed have to invite people with expert of novelty knowledge of the concepts from various disciplines to fully explore this.

Whether the thread goes to answer the question of the lie or not remains to be seen, indeed. But how far we take it is up to us, and the information that is retrievable from our own collective (humanity's??) history. I added the "humanity's??" for a reason. The bible, could be symbolic representation of someone elses history. But, this is only conjecture and speculation.

Where to begin?

Perhaps we shouldn't start on this road, until all easier paths of reasoning are fully explored. But what tools to explore them with?

How to begin measuring a true conspiracy?

I say by the observations of cause and effect of actions and behavior. This would help us understand the possible intentions of the names of individuals we think would know the possible truth of it all.

So, who? What names?

How many Presidents, and world leaders is George Bush Senior related to?
Winston Churchhill? Check.
Theodore Roosevelt? I believe so.


Would George Bush Senior know? It is who a brand new president by the name of Jimmy Carter asked the first week in office. President Carter said during his campaign he'd make all things public about the UFO phenomenon. His response from Then Director George Bush (concerning the truth about posible alien involvement), . . .. . . Jimmy asked the question, he wanted to know all, . . . George's response = "NO!".

Why is even the peoples choice denied?

Because, there is no democracy. If our chosen one can't be told, it is obvious that democracy is truly an illusion.

And this may be the truest threat to your "National Security" question.

Do the ufos pose a threat? Maybe not. Are they a threat to "National Security"? Maybe not.

Again, it may come back on us. Then, is the truth being made public the threat to national security? Perhaps.

We are running in circles, but there is always a way. It can be found, I'm certain of it.

Communication is key. Intentions. Cause and effect of actions and behaviors, not just the "Conspiritors", but those who say they want FULL DISCLOSURE.

We have to focus on the causes. We have to focus on the effects. We have to focus on the actions. We have to focus on the behaviors. We must not forsaken speculation, but by focussing on the above mentioned, we may be able to minimize our speculation.

The truth is not always "Out There". That is a deception. That is misinformation to say it is "Out There". Misdirection. The truth may very well be 1/2 out there, the other half lies behind the eyes of the one who is reading this post.


Why would we as individuals do what it is that we say they are doing. If they are good people, what possible reasons could there be. I'm prepared to exhaust all speculation we can collectively come up with.

COLLECTIVELY.

I don't care if you are a 9 year old reading this, or a teenager drop out smoking something you'd rather not tell us about.

I want your truth. I want what you can think of.

We need more people with more input. I don't know everything. Neither does FEMA. Different angles, different ways of looking at it.

don't have input?

then perhaps you have the right question? No questions are stupid, there is truth in all of it, and perhaps your stupid question leads us to the right question.


If your postulation were true, then one would be utterly compelled to ask: "To what end was this done? Would history have played out any different, and how many lives might have been saved, or lost, by knowing?"

Your question opens a ocean tanker full of questions.


The questions may be more important. Look back at the last 140 pages of posts on this forum, and tell me that they found the answer.

They have not. How do i know this? Because there are more posts opening up everyday.


Would history have played out any different, and how many lives might have been saved, or lost, by knowing?"


We need more people to get over their fears of being ridiculed and not fitting in.

We need more contributors.

We need more brain cells.

We need more people in this think tank, if we are to fully explore the possibilities.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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Who said there hasnt been disclosure mi chico



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by 321cba
Who said there hasnt been disclosure mi chico


Feel free to elaborate. Disclosure? Perhaps in certain circles. Full Disclosure?

Well, everyone doesn't know. That would be a measure of "Full Disclosure", i would presume.

"mi chico".

??



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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Esoteric Teacher
Hi I have been following this thread but have been reluctant to post but since you seem to really want more input I thought I might throw my marbles in the ring.
As far as the possibilty of disclosure I have always considered several factors to be involved. I'll give ya the short version and if you'd like me to elaborate then I will.
Temporal Chauvinism
This is the term used to describe how we lowly mortals think about the rest of the universe. I admit I've been guilty of this myself. I have stated that as far as space travel is concerned other sentient beings would conduct themselve like us. In other words they would be inclined to send unmanned probes before they send live whatever. My thinking being its more economical and less risky. But thats how we do it. Then you have to assume that they can breath our atmosphere which is 1/5 oxygen and 4/5 nitrogen. Do we go to another planet even in our own solar system without some type of breathing apparatus?
Religion is Earth Centric
Read through the ancient texts and you find that the majority of religions are basically Earth bound. They refer to us and divine beings. Nothing extrasolar there. All religions revolve around us. Do other beings have a religion? Is it centered on them or a broader scope?
Secrecy/Conspiracy
Is there a secret government cover up of alien visitation? Do people in the government know more than they can say? It's quite possible. There are things about my military service that I'm not at liberty to discuss with the general public and I wasn't some top secret super spy.
Psychological Impact
I think the impact of Disclosure has been lessened by people like Meier and Adamski and the like just because they have managed to keep their fantasies out in the open and this has immunized certain of the public to the shock. Ok lets talk
Alien Contactees
Am I the only one who's noticed that these folk sound more like evangilists?
Why is it that their only proof is that 'joealien' said so. If you ask for a pic or a chance to talk to em well they always seem to have the standard- oh they only talk to me or you cant get a photo cause they only show up to me. And there's always some doom and gloom forecast for us. Verification?
Gottta take my word for it.

I hope this is right for ya. Just my thoughts.
I like this thread and its put some thoughts in my head so keep on keepin on. If my post don't fit then feel free to disregard.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by Scout1959
If so you have my deepest appreciation for your service to this Country, God Bless and Protect you and all your fellow Service Men & Women.

Amen to that, no doubt.


Godspeed, Sergeant.



Of the worlds population are ignorant of 99.9999% of our history and we seem to function quite well.

Surely you jest!

We try our best, I'm sure. But ignorance is not function, it is dysfunction which leads to an excerbated condition of sociopathic self-orientation.

We cannot allow it to get that bad. I don't think it will. Anyway.


I agree that we fear the unknown that's why people fear death!
Extra-terrestial life certain gives a vague comfort in the back of our minds--whether we realize it or not. And the driving force behind the idea of needing to know their 'past' is because it is very likely our 'future.'

If someone's already said this, I apologize...it is a long thread and I can't remember to reply if I wait til I've read it all...


But then again more people are afraid of public speaking than death........
And probably black hairy jumping spiders, too.

On a survey, that is. But in the harsh actuality of it all, death is the fear that wrenches your gut with a cold yank, the one we most all keep deep hidden. It is the only fear that truly has a hold on our mortal reasoning.


The one thing we can be certain of about all life is that the majority of it would be incapable of space travel..........

Since ET said speculation is indulged in this thread, I will reveal some of what might be described as 'personal certainties' (standard editorial dislaimer implied) about 'life,' 'intelligence,' and 'dimensions.'

I think that 'intelligent life' is not defined by space, time, or dimensionality of any sort...I think we are pure light and thought (pure energy) when we get beyond our present particulate-based delusion. I think we might weigh about .25 oz, and that's it. We only need spaceships because we have forgotten how to fly. Maybe that's why we are visited in spaceships--maybe they are nothing more than theatrical fluff for the purpose of our sheltered reality.

If you've ever read on the Roswell incident (who hasn't, probably)--that kind of spaceship stuff seems impossible--if that is protection, maybe it was not from the likes of gamma rays, et al...

Reverse psychology of the highest sort?



after all just look at earth you have only one (known life of course....heck Bigfoot may just pass through dimensions and time warps at will....
) intelligent life form that has any grasp on space travel..... fragile as it is.........

In an existence outside the bounds of time and space (the wardens of our mortal prison), space travel is a meaningless concept. Without 'space' there is no need to 'space travel.'


I really don't think Aliens will contact us even if they are visiting earth. We maybe a curiosity but why mess with us.............. doesn't add up to me.
I agree--we can certainly mess with ourselves quite fine without any help. :shk:


I have no doubt that Christ has visited each and every planet in the Universe.... even those without any life forms. The potential of contact with Alien Cultures would in no way 'rock' my faith in my Savior!

I'm with you on that--but you know it's likely not true for many more people than for whom it is.
Probably many would rather not test the rope, either. But I'm just speculating, based on what I observe in the world around me.

I think the world is not as secure as you are, as far as personal perspective--which is too bad, truly--because I honestly think that Orson Welles could very possibly pull off the same inadvertent terror and mayhem this very year--just like in 1938...



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Newton dealt with science fiction first by noticing that the apple fell. He asked himself why the apple fell, but not the moon. All speculation prior to his answering with the theories wrapped in gravity were science fiction, until he provided a plausible answer as to why the apple was falling, and not the moon. Newton was not famous for noticing gravity, he was famous for defining the parameters of its casuses and its effects.

Newton went against 'intelligent falling.'




[edit on 1/11/2006 by queenannie38]



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by FEMA
With regard to the lie . . .

.... and when he put this directly to a superior officer they answered thusly: "Far greater men than you or I make these decisions." That was the only answer he ever got when he asked what gave the government the right to lie.


I don't know how i missed this FEMA, after skimming over this entire thread, (again), i noticed it. It parrallels a well trusted soul i know. A certain someone i talk to every now and again who is 6th in chain of command, from the president. All be it a wierd chain of command, he too said something extremely vague, with unusual wording. And, i can not stress enough: communication is KEY. A reply to an inquiry produced an akward response: "Everything we know has been moved further North, a lot further North. The people who know are people far greater than us." Interesting choice of words. I find them intriguing.

Originally posted by my friend FEMA
For instance, on one side we have complete disclosure and what that means to man, on the other side we have those who perpetuated the lie. Is the lie, and retribution for it, going to overshadow complete disclosure? I'm betting a dollar to a doughnut that it won't. The lie will fade into the background pretty quickly other than for a brief moment in time when the question is put: "Why the big lie?"


"Is the lie, and retribution for it, going to overshadow complete disclosure?"

We may have to come back to this one, but let us not forget it.



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:44 PM
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I have given a hint which will/can cover all these bases at one time..perhaps it is just too far out to even register?



posted on Jan, 11 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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You guys are flipping my lid. Truly.


My brain is smoking...

What it's smoking--I don't know cause I don't ask...



Yes, we--all of mortal humanity, collectively--are co-conspirators against ourselves!

Not on purpose, but literally because we are ignorant! This, my friends, is the answer to all mundane 'mystery.' And our other-worldly friends no doubt know this better than the wisest of our wise can even foretell. We are in a lush and miraculous celestial classroom called Earth. We are almost graduated, I know this...but, like all pre-graduate teenagers, we are a danger to ourselves and others in the mere act of getting out of bed each day.



Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
...Most people are not consciously aware of what thought processes are transpiring in their subconscious minds.

This is the primary reason I believe this form of communication may not be possible. But, this does in no means negate the possibility, nor the plausibility of such ideas....

I think that aliens of the sort we're contemplating would surely not 'invade' our fragile minds until they are certain we will not implode as a result. And perhaps, just perhaps, that such 'invasion,' as I called it, is not so much invasion as expansion....in the mind that is in a state of preparation. (a state that will eventually be a milestone for every soul, but not quite yet)


Originally posted by FEMA
Consider religion, medicine, and technology.

This entire post was excellent and I support, in opinion, every point you made.

That's another big 'clue'--our fleshly limitations could not sustain such liberal mentation and endurance.


Originally posted by BRCMontana
This is also a sad commentary on the state of our world as a whole, after all we shouldn't NEED anyone to solve our problems for us now should we?


Perhaps they are not problems, but rather more like 'growing pains.'

'Problem' is a purely creative term--it creates that which it designates simply by suggesting its own possibility...


Originally posted by FEMA
He went on to say that alien intelligence starts at about the 7-inch mark and can travel out to around the 23-inch mark. He then said humans occupy the first 3-one-hundred-thousands of the first inch.

I don't have any problem believing that, at all.


Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
So, is it in fact their actions that demonstrate their willingness to respect the collective will of humanity?

No doubt.


Originally posted by Scout1959
Personally, if there are alien races I don't see why they would bother to communicate with us? What's in it for them?

Exactly.
That's a human attitude, but not necessarily a way of thinking inherent to higher consciousness (conscience-ness).


Originally posted by FEMA
He said: "They say there is indeed a god, an all omnipotent being, and that they and all things are subject to it. They went on to tell him that, and this is a quote taken from my notes: "Despite our science and technology we cannot pull back the veil of that which you call Heaven."

I'm a flake, too, then!
That is a quote taken from your notes, presumably Mr DoD's words--right? Yet, not his words, were they? I don't even know the guy, but those words somehow sound so familar to me...



Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
If we are capable of appeasing the will of "Truth", and that will is in all the little stuff, then we need not ever meet in person, anywhere. We would not need cell phones, or to gather in masses, because we are all interconnected. I don't think the words exists to express what it is I'm talking about, but i will offer this: We are all them, peoples fears of losing that which they love, and loving the wrong things prevent them from knowing what they know. Their not conscious of what is transpiring in thier subconscious. And if they are thinking with a broken mind, then they are observing and experiencing with a broken mind.

RIGHT.



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by longhaircowboy
Esoteric Teacher
Hi I have been following this thread but have been reluctant to post but since you seem to really want more input I thought I might throw my marbles in the ring.


And, WE thank you for that. All thoughts welcome, nothing banned but bad attitudes. The negativity, althought plausible, has yet to yeild much in the arena of answers to our questions of WHY?. Thanks for stepping in.


I'll give ya the short version and if you'd like me to elaborate then I will.


Keep watching, if its pertinent in your mind, then submit it.


Temporal Chauvinism
This is the term used to describe how we lowly mortals think about the rest of the universe. I admit I've been guilty of this myself. I have stated that as far as space travel is concerned other sentient beings would conduct themselve like us. In other words they would be inclined to send unmanned probes before they send live whatever.


Agreed. We must accept this is plausible, or we'd be lying to ourselves. But, from many peoples standpoints, they may have already been here a long long time ago, but absolute proof seems illusive. A perspective, i believe.


Religion is Earth Centric
Read through the ancient texts and you find that the majority of religions are basically Earth bound. They refer to us and divine beings. Nothing extrasolar there. All religions revolve around us. Do other beings have a religion? Is it centered on them or a broader scope?


Religions may revolve around us, but we are a selfish species. At the core (consciously) of every cell, we are "Self Before We Serve", aka "Self Pre Serve". Your thoughts are legitimate, though. Of that i'm sure. But, there is an overwhelming amount of variables from the birth of cultures the world over that refer to "Gods from the Heavens", and heaven is up. An underlining theme at the birth of all civilizations tells us of entities that "Came down", and these stories/myths/ and legends do resemble eachother, on almost every continent. This does not disprove you, but we simply can not discount our ancestors so readily. Was there truth to these beliefs? It remains to be a factor i keep as an enigmatic variable.


Secrecy/Conspiracy


Psychological Impact
I think the impact of Disclosure has been lessened by people like Meier and Adamski and the like just because they have managed to keep their fantasies out in the open and this has immunized certain of the public to the shock.


Both are good points. Could you elaborate more on what Meier and Adamski are about. I'm afraid I'm ignorant about them. But, their names i am vaguely familiar with. What is your take on them? There work? Your gut feelings about them?


Alien Contactees
Am I the only one who's noticed that these folk sound more like evangilists?
. . .. .. . . .. . Verification? Gottta take my word for it.


No, you are not alone in your observations. A good portion seem to be as you describe.


I hope this is right for ya. Just my thoughts.
I like this thread and its put some thoughts in my head so keep on keepin on. If my post don't fit then feel free to disregard.


It was very influencial. Gave me a couple of things to ponder. And, made me look at things from a slightly different angle as well. Funny thing about words, when you read someone elses, you are in their mind. Thier words relfect their thoughts. And, i for one disregarded nothing you contributed, just offered my opinion as to why i wouldn't totally disregard some aspects of openmindedness with the religion thing. However, all your ideas were beneficial for the thread.

Please get back to me about the two (Meier and Adamski), i would appreciate it, and your take on them.

kind regards,
john



posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by salsa
uniting the world under one voice should be a priority but that's won't happen with this many people on earth.

Eureka!

We must come to be united--not be united by an outside force.

The unity must come from within in order to be life.




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