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Considerations of Why Full Disclosure About Aliens May Be Impossible At This Time, Sorry Folks

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posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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I really don't think that disclosure at this moment is available. I mean, we don't have that much proof to say if aliens are real or not. And they haven't been making any effort, if they are real, to have a disclosure.

I really doubt there'll be a disclosure now or anytime in the near future.




posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 12:04 PM
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Great thread, guys. I really appreciate and enjoy [and somewhat envy] the speculative thoughts of you articulate deep thinkers.

This topic goes to the heart of the entire issue. If we're being visited by ETs, why don't they just make themselves known?

I've thought about this a lot myself and while admittedly not convinced we are being visited, I don't rule it out completely. My personal opinion is that either (A) "They" are so alien to us it is absurd to even attempt to attribute motivations based upon our tendency to anthropomorphize or (B) "They" really do have a concern for being too disruptive, which disclosure would inevitably be.

I'm still on the side of, "It hasn't happened. Yet." But I'm prepared to be wrong.



posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright
Great thread, guys. I really appreciate and enjoy [and somewhat envy] the speculative thoughts of you articulate deep thinkers.


Don't envy us. The only reason i can ask the questions i do is because i simply no longer fear the consequences of asking stupid questions. And, it is speculation that takes us from the known to the unknown, not the continual regurgitation of the same old stuff.

Don't be afraid to chime in, just don't do it in a confrontational way, unless you want my honest rebuttal. Try and make me feel stupid for conjecture and I'll be more than ready to justify my conjecture.

So, feel free to chime in with your off the wall, outside the box thinking anytime, i'll have your back, unless it is unjust belittling. i don't care for it, i'm already my worst critic, and no one else knows me well enough to be any better at criticizing me, than me.


This topic goes to the heart of the entire issue. If we're being visited by ETs, why don't they just make themselves known?


Exactly. We may not have all the facts, but we do have our right to ask:

What The .. . . ? Why not, why can't we know, if indeed there is something to know?


I've thought about this a lot myself and while admittedly not convinced we are being visited, I don't rule it out completely.


And it's your willingness to be open minded that negates impossibilities. It isn't just written off as impossible. And that is important, keeps us open minded to the possibilities.



My personal opinion is that either (A) "They" are so alien to us it is absurd to even attempt to attribute motivations based upon our tendency to anthropomorphize or (B) "They" really do have a concern for being too disruptive, which disclosure would inevitably be.


I don't like either of those at all, but unfortunately, you may indeed be right. We must


I'm still on the side of, "It hasn't happened. Yet." But I'm prepared to be wrong.


I'm leaning towards it is more than likely we've been visited, but like you, I'm also prepared to be wrong, so I think (my opinion), that we are on the same page. No absolute proof being available, an open mind is the only logical option for us, unless we want to set ourselves up for failure, and set ourselves up to be proven wrong. Smart move on your part.



[edit on 9-1-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 12:56 PM
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The overall population on earth is far too great for any kind of Mass disclosure too take place. The social implecations and government have all conditioned us too think what is right and wrong and too only think in the bubble and not out side it. All free will creatures must have rules and the current rules must change in order for our future survival. Human population is allowed to rage rampant with no monitoring what so ever. Resources are consumed very unefficiantly. uniting the world under one voice should be a priority but that's won't happen with this many people on earth. Hard too say... If one alien race jumped in I'm sure others would so.. there are other issues that must be considered.



posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by salsa
uniting the world under one voice should be a priority but that's won't happen with this many people on earth.


Provocative statement to say the least.

I think there may be some deep seeded truth in this sentence.

Consider this:

People can only truly compare their observances and experiences with holding them up for comparison to what it is they know, what they themselves accept as truth. So, can humanity truly get behind one person, one group, and truly trust them? People may not be able to support a single ideoplogy, or a single voice, because they know what they would do if they were to obtain such power. So, even if one was to present themselves as having everyone's best interests at heart, there is no guarantee that the mass majority of souls on Earth would even recognize it for what it (he/she/it) was, pure love of truth. How many people do you honestly think from a state of mind that is "Truth lovingfully Truthingfully". Most people are usually far different at the core, hence the world's current affairs, and 7,500 years devoid of 7 consecutive days without war, killing, and destruction.

Sorry, put what you said in words i could relate to, and expanded some.

Good post, thanks.



posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 02:19 PM
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Regardless of what the outcome could be, it should be told. If certain people will go crazy over religion and kill themselves, so be it. We let the weak minded die off, and we move forward as an enlightened species.



posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by idbltrl001
Regardless of what the outcome could be, it should be told.


I agree, totally. But, why wouldn't it be disclosed? If they do exist, and have been involved in our history, of have been visiting us (all speculative), then what reasons could you think of that would justify those who might know keeping it all a secret?



If certain people will go crazy over religion and kill themselves, so be it. We let the weak minded die off, and we move forward as an enlightened species.


this is a considerably profound way of looking at it. One i may not fully agree with, however it must be acknowledged.

Would full disclosure somehow draw the lines between the very fabric of society, and create a situation where a choice must be a mandated thing all souls will have to address?

I may not have the answer for this one, at this time, even with the best speculatory skills. But, perhaps this thread as a think-tank will progress to a point when some plausible answers present themselves . . . . . . .




posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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Perhaps they (Aliens) have an invested interest in observing how we develope in isolation, a virgin culture with such great diversity. Perhaps (as some religions seem to hint at) we are some kind of answer to some kind of question.

Now this concept requires a great deal of "outside the box" brand of thinking. But, i seem to remember a story about a king who wanted to know what the real language was. So, he ordered that as little contact as possible be made with a group of newborns/infants to see how they chose to communicate if they were offered no basis for comparison, if they were never spoken to, and handled as little as possible. The outcome was the children died, reportedly because of the lack of love they recieved.

Or perhaps there would be other questions that from the viewpoint of the Aliens we could supply, that "infected" other worldly cultures could not.

Is there (in your mind) any possible questions that we might be able to provide other worldly visitors?

I know this one is very difficult guys, because it requires us to as individuals to deny thyself, and stop thinking as humans, and have empathy enough to put ourselves in their shoes. We indeed would have to think like aliens, and not like humans. And this definatley stretches the imagination, i know.



posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Is there (in your mind) any possible questions that we might be able to provide other worldly visitors?

I know this one is very difficult guys, because it requires us to as individuals to deny thyself, and stop thinking as humans, and have empathy enough to put ourselves in their shoes. We indeed would have to think like aliens, and not like humans. And this definatley stretches the imagination, i know.


O . .. .. . K . . .




"Sometimes when I'm all by myself and I've gots no one to talk to I like to talks to my Self, I say: "Self", (Cuz that's what I calls my Self), I say "Self, What's a guy like you doing here?" My Self relplies: "Self", (Cuz that's what my Self calls my Self), My Self says "Self, It's just the type of guy you are, Self!"

Moving right along ... .


Got an answer for my own question. Perhaps being so advanced and a civilization so old, that their records and memories no longer are representative of their own evolution. Perhaps that could be just one reason they are (if they are) here, simply to observe, and hoping to learn more about themselves, by learing more about us, our intentions, and how we operate as a whole.

Kind regards,
My Self and My Self




posted on Jan, 9 2006 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by Esoteric TeacherAnd all things that are science fact, were first science fiction, if even for a fraction of an instant.


Please, could we knock it out with the bull? I have never heard a professor, teacher or any various person trained in science ever say that to me. Never. Because it simply isn't true. Prove to me that Liebniz and Newton first dealt with science fiction calculus. Oh, I am gonna love hearing this one.


Newton dealt with science fiction first by noticing that the apple fell. He asked himself why the apple fell, but not the moon. All speculation prior to his answering with the theories wrapped in gravity were science fiction, until he provided a plausible answer as to why the apple was falling, and not the moon.



I would say they were theories not ficticous. And we later found out the moon does "fall".


Hence: Science fiction existed prior to science fact, from the viewpoint of the observer, and the quest for the truth.


Many people before Newton knew that gravity accelerated objects regardless of wieght at a constant velocity. Take a bullet and drop it at your shoulder's distnace. It hits the ground within .81 seconds, put the same bullet in a gun and fire it parelell to the ground (assuming it is flat) and the bullet will fall to the ground within .81 seconds (disregarding an aerodynamic flaws), the bullets horizontal velocity does not affect gravity either. These things are found through research. Newton was answering his own question. He didn't answer them and then give false information to people about his research. THAT would have been ficticous.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 12:03 AM
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Interesting. I was going to post something along those lines. It had something to do with the functioning of an old spark-gap radio and discovering how it worked by use of observation of another society.

Another thought about disclosure might be one of timing. For instance, as an old and intelligent society, the aliens may have conducted contact many, many times. Perhaps there are very specific and metered steps that have to be made, say, with a society such as ours, before complete and utter disclosure can take place. For instance, step one might be to appear in anceint art over the natural course of a planet's history. Step two, when technology dictates - say the detection of radar technology - might be to ramp up sightings for those looking.

If so, what stage might we be at?



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by FEMA

If so, what stage might we be at?


Wow, hadn't even thought to think of it as in "stages". Sorry, I'm going to give this one some thought and get back to ya.

As for Frosty's theories being fact and not fiction. These words may be taking on different meaning in our minds, Frosty. I'm not saying you are wrong, but theory to me is not fact without substantiation. A theory is a theory until proven fact. You are presenting the word theory in a different light. Saying that it was the facts that led to the theory and hence facts that led to the question. I'm saying that it is the theory and the question that led to the facts, and prior to being a fact, it is percieved as fiction. At least in my mind, and my observances of human perception. Your point is a valid one, and worth considering, or i wouldn't be typing this right now.

I'm getting a little tired (insert yawn here), so I'll ponder awhile longer and get back to you guys tomorrow. Thanks for making me think guys,

Thanks for the brain food,
John




posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 02:11 AM
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As for "stages" of disclosure, I would have to guess that we are in the stage of conditioning and desensitization to the Idea of Contact with aliens. Actually, I think we are nearing the end of that stage. Although Im not sure what comes after this, I truly believe that 'the powers that be' wont last more than another ten years with their secrecy.
The main reason I think so is because of all the traffic that our near space will see in the coming years. From private flights, and from national space programs/aims (Japan/China/Russia/US/ect).
It will soon be undeniable.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 06:25 AM
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I think it'll take just one widespread ufo sighting..and that could be all the disclosure we would need.

I wonder why they(et's) havent considered this yet?Just so long as they get enuff people guessing,we should have a starting point for disclosure.

I dont think the government would be able to deny a huge mothership hovering over Washington DC.

But as tricky as they are,i couldnt even be sure.


[edit on 10-1-2006 by MagicPriest420]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 08:24 AM
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All I have to say is "2012". The calendar given to us by the Gods, to the Mayans.
Yes, we're nearing a new era.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 09:17 AM
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I must say that this is one of the most refreshing conversations that I've seen here. No bickering, no your wrong I'm right.

Good job Esoteric Teacher
You have voted Esoteric Teacher for the Way Above Top Secret award.


Now for my .02....
Two things come to my mind.
"knowledge is the enemy of faith" --
Disclosure will give us pure unadulterated knowledge, therefore the faithful will not be able to say who's right and who's wrong anymore. Besides, aren't all wars started because of religious faith?

I think Agent Smith said it best. "Humans are nothing but a virus consuming all resources in their path". There is nothing on this planet that humans have touched and left it as it was before they touched it. Everything has been exploted, perverted, or become extinct because man couldn't keep his greedy hands off and left it alone.
Now that we've consumed all the resources we're looking for someone to come and bail us out. If I were an alien I wouldn't come within 12 light years of earth for fear of getting killed because some dumb earthling didn't understand what or who I was.

"Look Billy Bob what is that?" "I dunno let's shoot it and find out".



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 09:47 AM
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dgoodpasture, we'll have to wait and see. It would be interesting to see how many people who were waiting for the end, were just to find out it was the end of a "Are we alone?" mindset to a "We're not alone!" mindset, instead of the end of the world, it is just the end of our perceptions of being all alone. But, obviously (if aliens were here long ago), the fact that we are here could be an optimistic one



Originally posted by MagicPriest420
I think it'll take just one widespread ufo sighting..and that could be all the disclosure we would need.

I wonder why they(et's) havent considered this yet?Just so long as they get enuff people guessing,we should have a starting point for disclosure.


I've thought the same. (Remember this is conjecture/speculation, we are trying to determine possible intentionality of both our governments's leaders. possible aliens, and possibly even "secret societies") Going back to your thoughts MagicPriest, I think they are sensitive to our populations possible reactions, and don't really want anything from us, aside from communication with us. A dialogue. Our friendship. Again, just speculating.

Unplugged, I liked your thoughts on the "staging/stages". I'm going to perhaps just sit back and see what other people think about this one. Not that i don't have an opinion, or don't ponder it. But, i'd like to see what others think about it, without my thoughts influencing them.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by rancid1
I must say that this is one of the most refreshing conversations that I've seen here. No bickering, no your wrong I'm right.


I'm keeping a close eye on this thread, well as long as i can anyway. This is important to me to consider the "How comes" of why disclosure could not be. And, (there has been a couple instances), if anyone even begins to take on a belittling overtone, I'm more than willing to stand my ground. However, the only reason i can easily rebuke them is because i can understand the truth of their point of view. I'll try my honest best to consider every arguement, and the best arguements they could present, therefore i can accept it. And if i can accept their point of view, and take it on as my own (whether i subscribe to it personally or not), odds are i can argue their points better than they can, looking at it from every angle, usually before i even post a new thread, i've already done this in my mind. And if i can see it from their point of view to the extreme, i can usually see the other extreme as well. It is how i learn, through practice. I don't care for bickering, unless something fruitful comes out of it, and sometimes it does. For instance, i am able to see Frosty's point of view, but i can't seem to see his point of view or my point of view as either being absolutley more right than the other, it is just perception.



"knowledge is the enemy of faith" --
Disclosure will give us pure unadulterated knowledge, therefore the faithful will not be able to say who's right and who's wrong anymore. Besides, aren't all wars started because of religious faith?


I'm not dissagreeing with you, just considering a slightly different point of view. About the "knowledge is the enemy of faith", i think knowledge presents accumilated possibilities, possibilities that offer us a point of reference to be utilized as a basis for comparison. But, in alot of aspects this statement could be very true. About all wars being started because of religious faith, i think your right, but exactly what is it they had faith in, if not their will being dominant over anyone elses. Just a thought. Your .02 were (to me) very valid points indeed. Thanks for the contribution to the thread.


I think Agent Smith said it best. "Humans are nothing but a virus consuming all resources in their path". There is nothing on this planet that humans have touched and left it as it was before they touched it. ........... . .. .. . .. because some dumb earthling didn't understand what or who I was.


That whole paragraph had an overwhelming undertone/overtone of truth in it. We do tend to absolutley defile a lot of things in our quest to fully understand such things.


"Look Billy Bob what is that?" "I dunno let's shoot it and find out".


That gave me a hearty chuckle, thanks.



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 11:37 AM
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I was listening to Coast to Coast and Art B. had David Adair interview rebroadcast. One of the things he said that caught my attention had to do with disclosure. He said (paraphrased) that disclosure wont happen until the the majority of public at large are willing to blank check forgive their respective governments for holding the secrets that they have for as long as they have. Indications are that a lot of the secrets being kept that are revolutionary in nature and have immense world changing ramifications associated with them. Another problem is that the secrets have been kept for too long and those persons/agencies/governments holding the secrets are in the secret keeping business and are so far over their heads that they cant see how on earth they could release data/technologies/events and still survive politically or keep their careers going. They are basically afraid of chaos or revolution once most people realize just how deep and subversive these secrets are and how long they've been kept. Think about it. If we could have been using AG drives for space exploration instead of solid and liquid rockets or years ago could have eliminated our dependance on fossil fuels and rid ourselves of suckling on a national power grid people would get pretty pissed once the reality and weight of the secrets settled into peoples minds. Governments would be even less trusted than they are now and may even be torn down because of this. Are most of us ready to hand out blanket forgiveness to our leaders for potentially duping the common man for they last 50-60 years? For potentially intentionally holding human advancement back simply to keep a secret?

[edit on 10-1-2006 by Defragger]



posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 12:05 PM
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They are basically afraid of chaos or revolution once most people realize just how deep and subversive these secrets are and how long they've been kept.


I don't doubt the above observation. Consider though, that once disclosure was understood in its totality, who'd have time for a political witch hunt? John suggested that there might be far more relieved faces in Washington than red ones. It's a thought we can't forget.

Consider, for instance, if we were on the utter brink of nulear war and it suddenly became irrefutably known that "They Are Here," I think that war would be put on the back burner because there is something far more important to be considered. And, if they were here, would you want to be the country to send the first volly of bombs to see what might lay in store for such an action?

The point is one of such knowledge taking higher priority over he said, she said, we did, they did. I don't doubt that there would be a fair amount of "You laying SOBs!, you said there was no such a thing, said it was swamp gas, weather inversions, that people were nuts!

I just a firmly believe that those thoughts would just as easily be drown out by thoughts of, "Well, where do we go from here?"



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