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US poor are not so poor.

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posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by BlackThought
we are talking basic needs in the Wash dc area.


then move. dc is one of the most expensive areas in the country (i know, i live in loudoun county). you can make better money with less expenses in many other areas. move to one of them. people bitch and moan about how the cost of living in a certain area doesnt match up with the amount of pay they get, but then refuse to relocate to an area where that ratio is improved. if you want to better your life, move to an area of the country where you can do just that.



My point is the ability to move up or be stuck in a loop. This system has many stuck in a loop the working poor. It use to be if you worked you did get ahead not now in some situations.


like i said, take an example from the hispanics. you may not be able to improve your own life, but you can work toward improving the lives of your children, and therefore your own at a later date when your kids have a good job and can help take care of you.




posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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so is that why they are trying to get rid of the day laborers station the Reston? I do live somewhere eles I am not a native of VA. I moved from a place where the unemploymnet rate was geting to be 11% 22% in African American. Still you have not shown a way someone living barebones can get ahead. So the only solution is to live like SPanish people to get ahead ther is nothing wrong with the system yea...right.



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by BlackThought
so is that why they are trying to get rid of the day laborers station the Reston?


because people are sick of the illegals, and having to press one for english because they refuse to learn english. i dont mind immigrants. i mean, hell, this country was founded by immigrants, and my family comes from irish and scottish immigrants. but immigrate legally and learn the damn language.....but that's another thread entirely.



I do live somewhere eles I am not a native of VA. I moved from a place where the unemploymnet rate was geting to be 11% 22% in African American.


then why would you move to dc? the cost of living is astronomical. if it were me, i'd be moving to somewhere in the deep south where you can still rent a 2 bedroom duplex for 300 a month in a decent area. hell, as it is, a make damn near 100k and cant afford housing in loudoun county where i work. we are going to have to move damn near an hour west just to find a reasonable house. my problem is that as a federal employee, i can request a transfer to atlanta (which i do on a monthly basis...and get denied on a monthly basis), but i cant just up and move unless i quit my job. if i were dirt poor, i'd do just that, but considering that i make good money, its worth it to make the hour drive. but thats just me.



Still you have not shown a way someone living barebones can get ahead. So the only solution is to live like SPanish people to get ahead ther is nothing wrong with the system yea...right.


no, i gave several options. if you read my post you'll find that i mentioned the military (i'd personally recommend air force or navy....better chance of getting into a good job field and less chance of getting shot at), education, and sports. but there are many many others. i simply used the hispanic way because that's how we as americans used to get ahead, and it seems we've forgotten the importance of families sticking together through the rough times.

and, of course, as per our previous discussion, you have several options as a black man that i dont have. do you realize that you can get money to start your own business simply because you are black? i dont know what you do for a living, but small businesses are definitely booming in northern va due to the housing boom.

anyway, that's the way i see it. maybe i'm wrong, who knows, but having been dirt poor, and having found a way out, i think my opinion is pretty valid.



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 02:25 PM
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the loans not true I tried went through the programs and eveything Minority money goes to mostly white women. The took the proposal but not me.


I did move form the south i have a house in the south true you can get a 4 br for 120 k down there but try to find a job that pays that much. Fedreal job you might have a chance.
I will give you the military they will take before you need to have a diploma from High school now all you need is your ged. I moved here for the IT market and I could kick my brothers Butt for it.

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by BlackThought
the loans not true I tried went through the programs and eveything Minority money goes to mostly white women. The took the proposal but not me.


they turned you down? that's just wierd. i've got two black friends that started business using that money. one has a computer repair business, the other a landscaping business.....i'll have to ask them if there was some special trick they used.



I moved here for the IT market and I could kick my brothers Butt for it.

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]


lol...aint family a pain in the ass sometimes? i wish i could give you some advice there, but i just dont know too much about IT or where the best jobs are. there's gotta be a better place than dc though.



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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Their are still many ways to get ahead these days for working americans you've just got to think a little. For instance I'm disabled I live on the disabliity check the government sends every month. But I see a great amount of opportunities out there for people like me and really anybody with the desire to improve his or her life. For instance I was looking for a computer on ebay and saw that people were willing to pay outrageous amounts of money for loaded gaming computers. I'm talking $2500 maybe $3500 for a computer that cost maybe $2000 to build! Now thats what I'm talking about.



posted on Jan, 24 2006 @ 09:21 PM
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If we are talking about the poor. The internet hookup how much? the classes for A+ training how much? The time to surf E bay how much? Things we take for granted might be a whole other world when you do not have the cash.

The idea is good most people arepredomantly lazy. Loading programs for loot good hustle.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 08:26 AM
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BT,

i talked to my buddies and they both say they just filled out the paperwork and talked to the consultants. however, both are also veterans, which probably gave them more preference points for the loan. sorry i couldnt help more.

snaf



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 08:37 AM
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Hey vets get points for everything . when i tried to work at the post office the same thing my scores were not high enough to beat the average vet that wanted the same job.
i am fine with that ... I guess



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by BlackThought


Not many most of that money was inherited and on that note most do not understand the paycheck to paycheck live either. Most of the middle class work 80 with no vacation.

The myth that hard honest work will get you ahead is a lie in most cases.


Have a look at the excellent book The Millionaire Next Door

www.amazon.com... ?v=glance&n=283155

In it, you'll learn that two thirds of all millionaires in the US are "first generation" millionaires.

You'll also learn that only a minority of them have a college degree.

Ethnically, they tend to be the children of either Greek, Russian, or Mexican immigrants.

The books spends a lot of time, surveying millionaires as a group.

Most of them
- do not own a swimming pool
-drive an american made car that is at least eight years old (!)
-live in a "working class" neighborhood
-never spent more that $275 for a suit
-never spent more than $50 for a wristwatch.
-are not planning to pay for their children's college education
-have never been divorced
-are somewhat more religious than the general population.

The Number one field of employment of American Millionaires (persons with a net worth of over 1 mil)?

-Owner of a janitorial services supply company.

And the runner up is . . .

-Auctioneer.

Number three is . . .

-Owner of a welding or metal fabrication company.


Those people (most rich people) got rich by living below their means. They do not have advanced college degrees. As a matter of fact, after 2.4 years of college, increasing education is negatively correlated with millionaire stutus. In other words, very few doctors and lawyers have a net worth of over 1 mil. They have fancy houses and cars (and credit cards), but they have little actual worth.

Anyway, it's a good read, for your own self as well as for the stuff an economics professor is not about to admit, especially about his own spending habits.


As for the second assertion, the average hours worked per week (non-supervisory) in december was 40.7 hours per week.

source

Now, if you want to argue that many middle class people work at supervisory jobs, then fine, but that sort of makes the counterpoint about the rich working harder.

Anyway. Denying ignorance is hard work, isn't it?



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 09:28 AM
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40.7 hours For them the 30 to 40 hours for yourself if you want to be your own boss.
One the examples of a millonare i was looking at was someone in my family. I know personally how hard you have to fight and the hours away from home. Yes they did have a degree and yes 2/3 of the ones are new money. But in order to live below your means you have to have enough capital to live period. The difference between a lexus, bmw, or range rover to a honda, ford or toyota.

But there is still a catch to the design of the allotment of loans, the rate of a loans, and the level of credit you have starting your business. A lot of the time it is not about collateral it is about the stereotypical character of the person. What the loan manager thinks...

That is why today there are many people walking around that fueled ideas to the machine but did not get a dime for it. The guy with the money did.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by BlackThought
40.7 hours For them the 30 to 40 hours for yourself if you want to be your own boss.
One the examples of a millonare i was looking at was someone in my family. I know personally how hard you have to fight and the hours away from home. Yes they did have a degree and yes 2/3 of the ones are new money. But in order to live below your means you have to have enough capital to live period. The difference between a lexus, bmw, or range rover to a honda, ford or toyota.


I understand your statement. You say that their are plenty of people that are barely able to meet their basic needs and sometimes not even that. Which is entirely true. And your right for many people its not just choosing between a Ford or a BMW but it is my contention that their is nothing stopping someone from this country from improving their lives with hard work and dedication. I'm not saying your going to become a bilionaire or even a millionaire but this country more than anyother offers the opportunity for a better life.


Originally posted by BlackThought
But there is still a catch to the design of the allotment of loans, the rate of a loans, and the level of credit you have starting your business. A lot of the time it is not about collateral it is about the stereotypical character of the person. What the loan manager thinks...


Again true, your current situation often determines what your immediate options for self-improvement are. However it doesn't have to stay that way. Like I said before I'm in the same boat. I'm disabled haven't worked in years however their are still possiblities for a better future for me.


Originally posted by BlackThought
That is why today there are many people walking around that fueled ideas to the machine but did not get a dime for it. The guy with the money did.


Their really not a good answer for your last statement. All I can express is that its not a perfect world and yes people do get screwed.

EDIT: Spelling

[edit on 25-1-2006 by danwild6]



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by BlackThought

But there is still a catch to the design of the allotment of loans, the rate of a loans, and the level of credit you have starting your business. A lot of the time it is not about collateral it is about . . what the loan manager thinks...

That is why today there are many people walking around that fueled ideas to the machine but did not get a dime for it. The guy with the money did.


As to the allotment of loans.

Supposedly, we crossed over into a new day in the early 1990's. With the bulk packaging of loans, it was supposed to make loans more accessable. First, student loans were bulk packaged and resold to private companies away from the original lenders. Then came small business and home loans. Then came reinsurance and car loans.

Personally, I think it feeds into the kind of "propping up of the status quo" that is a refuge for a lot of racism, classism, and suspicion of entrepeneurs.

For instance, I'm technically self-employed, according to the IRS. Even though I have a binding contract with the company I work for. I have an expense account, and company credit cards with my name on them. Yet because I'm self-employed, we had trouble getting a home loan. We got a lot of smoke when it came to buying a car. And all because neither of us are drones in a cubicle with our pay automatically deposited into our bank account.

Because of "bulk repackaged loans" you get assigned a credit score. Nothing you as a person do or represent changes the fact that your credit score is x. You may have a "top secret" goverment clearance. You may be bonded to handle millions in cash. You may even be from a religious group that views the failure to pay debts as a religious sin (say Mennonite or Muslim), but if your credit score is low, well, there must be a reason. Instead of being seen as an indicator of some possible risks, your credit score has become an indicator of your supposed ability to pay.

I swear it even gave me trouble when I had surgery last year. I didn't have one of the "transnational" health insurance plans, but a small provider administered through my pension plan; one that most clerks in hospitals and doctors offices don't recognize. So basically, the surgeons and hospital didn't want to schedule surgery until they had "verified" my coverage. Now, If I worked for Ford or GM, I could have walked into the ER and just said "blue cross and blue shield" and they would have started the procedure, since it is covered by all major medical policies.

despite all the legal crapola, and mistreatment of small businesspeople by govt., and big business, I think the fundamental cause of poverty is two fold. A lack of understanding, and a lack of discipline.

There are two kinds of money. Most working people don't know it. They can intuit it, but they don't KNOW it in their bones. The first kind of money is consumption money. You use it to pay for lunch, to put gas in your car, to pay your credit cards. The other sort of money is Capital. Capital is money that not only is permanent, but that can grow more money.

The second problem is a lack of discipline. As soon as you read the above paragraph, you said to yourself "well, of course." But the fact is, 99% of the people don't have the discipline to MAKE themselves live out the great truth: YOU get to decide whether any given dollar bill will be consumed, or will become capital. You are the only one who decides.

Do you need cable TV? at $40 bucks a month, earning compound interest is $2626.28 in 5 years. That is more than enough to open a stock market account that will track the S & P 500, plus hedge against a market collapse. Mine made 6% last year, even though it was a bad year. And that 6% is enough to get your cable turned back on and still own the stocks in your portfolio, plus dropping another $40 a month into that portfolio, so you keep getting richer while you watch TV.

Now, how many people reading this would be willing to do without cable for 5 years if it would make them rich. I mean REALLY do without cable TV, and no one but you will know if you give in and turn it back on . . .

Not one in a thousand, is my bet.

.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:35 PM
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I can agree with what you are saying but i do not understand how that you can have captial when all of it goes out in bills of necessity. Electric, gas, food especially food, clothing for the elements not style, rent , insurance, home insurance, health care, and transportation mainaintance. Poverty is not making enough to live off of.

Most Poor people do not have the time to put back captial and the same ones do not have a clue to spend in the areas you speak about. Hell most people in America does not know too much about Geography let alone money markets and fluctuations of earnings of stock and bonds.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by BlackThought
I can agree with what you are saying but i do not understand how that you can have captial when all of it goes out in bills of necessity. Electric, gas, food especially food, clothing for the elements not style, rent , insurance, home insurance, health care, and transportation mainaintance. Poverty is not making enough to live off of.


What can I say? The journey of a million miles begins with a single step.

Such a person must find some way of spending less than they take in. A book I would suggest, a book that saved me, is called Your Money or Your Life. (here is the website the authors maintain: www.simpleliving.net... ). Don't buy it for the $11 list price; get it for free from your local library. It teaches you how to cut corners and scrimp and save, it also tells you how to invest in guaranteed vehicles that, while they won't earn as much of the stock market, are also not vulnerable to market downturns. The book is written in Jr. High level English, so that "just folks" will have a better chance of understanding it.

Is that being realistic? It was for me. This coming August will mark 20 years since I got off the streets and ceased to be homeless.



Originally posted by BlackThought

Most Poor people do not have the time to put back captial and the same ones do not have a clue to spend in the areas you speak about. Hell most people in America does not know too much about Geography let alone money markets and fluctuations of earnings of stock and bonds.


Which goes back to my post about discipline and knowledge.

The fact is, once you start taking personal responsibility for your own life, you start enjoying everything a lot more. That's true whether you live in a police state, or are stuck on a deserted island in the south pacific. Even if you never get free, or get rescued, or find a way out, you find that a positive attitude makes the food taste better, and that you learn to be more creative about making your future.

Financial freedom is never guaranteed in this life. But what else is a man gonna do? Complain and lash out at the people around him? Wait for the system to change? I think 'the system' has been around since the first city states in Mesopotamia 6000 years ago. I think it was similar in the Soviet Union. Parasites will always run the system. It is up to the rest of us to figure out how we can best prosper until things can be changed (if ever).

.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 05:34 PM
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Great posts Dr_StrangeCraft


You seem to have a wealth of knowledge and information about this subject. You are one of the many reasons this is the best forum on the web.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 08:43 PM
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You have voted dr_strangecraft for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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I started reading Your money or your life in the early nineties. My crummy little job didn't pay for my car, insurance, and student loans! I was sinking slowly . . . "circling the drain" is the law enforcement term.

The first exercise in that book is to take stock of yourself financially; find out the some total of all the money you have ever earned, as well and your net worth today. My blood froze when I realized that my negative net worth was SO LARGE that I was literally worth more dead than alive.

The second exercise from that book is that you carry a little notepad around with you and you write down ever penny that goes in and out of your life. If you find a nickle on the sidewalk, you pick it up and write it in your book. If you buy a pack of cigarettes and a coke, you write it in your notebook. you do that for a whole month.

Lesson #1
If you carry around a little notebook and scribble in it all the time, your friends decide that the pressure is getting to you.

Lesson #2
Your living expenses drop 10% the first month, as you realize just how much money you actually spend on cokes, candy bars, lunches out at fast food joints, dinners out, movies, priority parking and beer.

Lesson #3
Even when I thought I was "starving to death" I was spending $85 a month on cigarettes, and $125 a month on alcohol--and that was in 1993 dollars!!!

Another great program, one my family uses today, is Dave Ramsey's "Financial Peace University." I'm don't get paid to advertize for them---they have just helped my family get out of debt and become wealthy, and so I'm recommending them, especially to people who feel hopeless. FPU.

He is better than Suze Orman. She has had some great books and programs--my real problem with her is that she has started doing commercials for GM credit's new "low initial rate" credit card. Which in my book, means she's probably selling out (though I'm sure she'd say "cashing in.") Anyway, the bigger any of these guys get, the more they start selling things besides good advice.

Still, you can learn everything you need to become a millionaire in about 20 years from them.

O yeah, one more suggestion. One of the best.

A totally forgotten little book from the nineteen fifties. It is worth actually buying, instead of merely renting from your local library:

The Richest Man in Babylon

It is actually written as fiction; but it clearly teaches all the principles of wise investing that a CFP or broker will never tell you (since it eats into their profit margin.).


Too bad that none of you reading this will take my excellent advice, and get rich.

Too bad.

.



posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 10:04 PM
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did the notepad thing already that was B franklin. well some of us dont have an alcohol habit, or smoke cigarettes, long distance phone service, car notes, no plasma tvs in fact no tvs brought in 5 years, My wife is an accountant works with moeny all aday long i know the value of it.

what you seem to not get is the powerstructure you serve. you enjoy it that is a major difference. i do not enjoy knowing my moeny is going into bombs and not school. i do not enjoy loking at the slow deaths of poor individuaals in america and just say it is their own fault.i do not enjoy winner takes all game. where the "winners" are the ones how play dirty i just can't ignore that.

i have read rich dad poor dad also i know the "lingo" the basis of opportunity is still lacking in parts of america. I have seen families that throw away nothing damn near self sufficient but still in the poverty loop. Stocks and bonds seem to be the answer you want us to look at. Majority of individuals dont know about stocks as a working capital. hate to say it if i had a billion i would not put it in the stock market becasue big business is why we have no pension plans anymore. No retirement and Health care. Hey lets not just be consumers lets fund the ceos to take more money. I would not mind this place if it was more inclusive i still think there is more a problem with the structure than the people. We cannot always blame the victim as the solution.



posted on Jan, 26 2006 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by BlackThought
did the notepad thing already that was B franklin. well some of us dont have an alcohol habit, or smoke cigarettes, long distance phone service, car notes, no plasma tvs in fact no tvs brought in 5 years, My wife is an accountant works with moeny all aday long i know the value of it.


Well, you've got computer access. My guess is that unless your local library is open all hours, then you're choosing to pay for internet access. We all choose the way we spend our money. I have counseled with a lot of people (young couples especially) that are trying to get out of debt, and I never saw a family that couldn't cut any corners, find a side business etc. But hey, what do I know, right?


Originally posted by BlackThought
what you seem to not get is the powerstructure you serve. you enjoy it that is a major difference. i do not enjoy knowing my moeny is going into bombs and not school. i do not enjoy loking at the slow deaths of poor individuaals in america and just say it is their own fault.


Well, unless you plan to go off in the woods by yourself, you're going to have to "serve somebody." Some people call it being a member of civilization; but whatever.

Do I enjoy the way my tax moneys are spent? No. definitely not. But I'm smart enought to know that blaming them for my poverty never made me a dime richer. It just gave me an excuse for not even trying.


Originally posted by BlackThought

i do not enjoy winner takes all game. where the "winners" are the ones how play dirty i just can't ignore that.



See, there's a major fallacy in liberal thinking right there: the idea that the economy is a zero-sum game. That means the idea that if I make a dollar, that someone else must have lost one. And it's just BS.

If I buy flour and milk and eggs, and make a loaf of bread, and then I sell it for more than the ingredients cost, then I just created wealth. You understand that, don't you? No one is poorer simply because they bought my loaf of bread. I created value by making something. And someone paid me for their labor. Is the buyer poor? No, they have bread to eat. Am I poor? No, I have a dollar that I didn't have before.

See, there's this idea out there that business, that people who create things or jobs or wealth are the enemy. And it's just sad. The real enemy is the one who takes the money from you without giving you anything real in return. The government doesn't create wealth. It merely redistributes it. And this attitude that liberals foster, this hatred of entrepeneurs, is a desire to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs of free enterprise.

The media blames CEO's, and you buy their party line. How many CEO's are there in america? All told, maybe half a million. And what do you think their annual pay amounts to, on average? Less than $80,000 dollars a piece. And that's with the Enrons and Tycos averaged in. And every one of your congressmen makes 3 times that. Yet who do you blame for society's ills????


Originally posted by BlackThought
i have read rich dad poor dad also i know the "lingo" the basis of opportunity is still lacking in parts of america.


I'm honestly sorry you wasted your time with that book. The author is a liar and has never made any money to speak of, other than by writing lying books. The books I've recommended teach genuine investment techniques, instead of 'rich dad' inspirational crapola. If I want a feel-good sermon, I can get it for free at church.


Originally posted by BlackThought
I have seen families that throw away nothing damn near self sufficient but still in the poverty loop.


I've known families that are self sufficient. As in raising their own hogs. I don't go that far any more. But I've got a garden big enough to grow more vegetables than I can give away, and a freezer so full of venison that the door won't stay shut. I've got a stack of firewood waist-high, and winter in Texas is almost over. I haven't been poor for about 15 years now. I know a lot of people aren't doing as well. But every millionaire I know has a garden and a freezer just like mine.


The Mennonites I know are all somewhat to extremely wealthy. Living below your means is the key to wealth, regardless of what lifestyle you choose. Every multi-millioinaire I've known well will tell you so. A great place to start is www.tightwad.com... which has everything from recipies to instructions on building your own home that will pass a code inspection.


Originally posted by BlackThought
Stocks and bonds seem to be the answer you want us to look at. Majority of individuals dont know about stocks as a working capital. hate to say it if i had a billion i would not put it in the stock market


Well, it's one answer. It has worked well for me. But then, I'm basically lazy; I'm continually fascinated with the idea of making money without having to sweat over it.

As far as the majority not knowing about stocks and bonds, that's not really my fault. I'm doing all I can to educate people, including young people where I do outreach work, about the fasics of personal finance. But the fact of the matter is, most people don't have the drive or discipline that it takes to become rich. It doesn't take brains. It takes an iron will. It takes conviction and a vice-like grip on the idea that I simply WILL NOT allow other people to control my destiny. And if money will provide me with security, then I will study money. I will master money. I will make sure that no one uses money to take advantage of me. I will not let the lack of money control my destiny.


Originally posted by BlackThought
becasue big business is why we have no pension plans anymore. No retirement and Health care.


I'd have to agree with you there, except to say that it's not simply big business, but rather big government that has stopped holding business accountable. And I'm voting against it too. But that doesn't mean I'm going to bury my money in a sock in the back yard while I wait for the system to start treating people right. No, I'm going to learn about pensions and annuities and make sure I have MY OWN MONEY when I retire, and am not dependent upon my one-time employers for my financial peace of mind.


Originally posted by BlackThought
Hey lets not just be consumers lets fund the ceos to take more money. I would not mind this place if it was more inclusive i still think there is more a problem with the structure than the people. We cannot always blame the victim as the solution.


I'm not sure what you mean about "funding the ceo's to take more money." You do know that in a publicly traded corporation, the shareholders get to vote on the board and CEO, right? So, if you have a problem with how much CEO's are paid, it is really with the satisfied shareholders who believe that the executives are worth it.

And how is it shameful for a guy who turns around an airline, or a steel mill, how is it shameful for him to make a tenth of what some professional athlete gets paid? Does the athlete create jobs or stimulate the economy? Is he fixing America's infrastructure, or trying to fund research for new technologies? If not, why is HIS salary OK, and not a CEO's? Or What about movie stars?

The fact is, you hate CEO's because the media tells you to. You don't pick on athletes or music idols or movie stars because . . . guess who owns the media!!!

We are taught to hate capitalists because they don't sing or dance or throw a ball through the hoop. They merely create jobs and wealth and all that stuff people line up to purchase at the grocery store . . .

The stocks I've owned send out a statement each year to the stockholders, explaining the salaries and labor costs. If it's unnacceptable to you, then you sell the company. As a matter of fact, despite what your TV tells you, most CEO's are voluntarily taking pay cuts, in order to reassure investors.

Delphi execs taking pay cuts
Another CEO superstar bites the dust

If you listen carefully to what the TV is telling you, you'll see that most of the racket about "unethical CEO packages" is actually coming from two sources. One is the airline industry, where old dinosaur carriers like American and United are fighting off leaner competitors (with low CEO pay) like Southwest. The other source of articles about "shameful CEO pay" is actually about a year old, and was coming from William McDonough, president of the New York Fed who was hoping to replace outgoing chairman Alan Greenspan. Now that McDonough's campaign has failed, he has dropped the CEO-bashing grandstand tactics.


Originally posted by BlackThought
. . . i still think there is more a problem with the structure than the people. We cannot always blame the victim as the solution.


On the other hand, we cannot always blame society as the solution either. 20 years ago, I didn't even own a bar of soap. Now I make twice what my father did when he retired. And it isn't just because someone handed me a free ride.

I built a lot of fences. I harvested a lot of wheat. I studied hard and borrowed money and sobered up and quit smoking pot. I taught myself the stuff they don't teach in college. I saved money, invested it, lost it, and saved up more. I own a whole library of books on financial planning and investing. I bought nearly every one of them used. And since the day I came in off the streets, I have been unemployed a total of FOUR DAYS in 19 years.

Now, not everyone who is poor is lazy. But on the other hand, not everyone who is rich is a fat greedy bastard, either.

Maybe some poor people are not responsible for their circumstances. On the other hand, perhaps there are some rich people who are responsible for their circumstances.

Either way, blaming society, or some other ethnic or class group, or blaming God or the Devil, is not going to change anything. The only way to get money on a reliable basis is to earn it, and learn how to make it work for you.

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