Virus Induced Obesity - what the hell!?

Originally posted by Shadow88
Now look what you've done!

I never thought you guys of all people would be so ignorant, with the exception of a few of you, you know who you are.

Read the statements about the disease. Then you will hopefully have something constructive today other than "nah tiz coz there all fatty mcfattys" or "omg you cant blame it on the virus" etc. Its not only insulting to people who are overweight its insulting to those who have spent time looking for the information.

Please, can you post a link that gives information as to how this virus makes people obese rather than just posting links saying "30% of obese people have this virus"?

Honestly, the virus probably develops as a result of being obese in the first place.

My brother is obese, as were several of my friends in high school. Let me tell you this: they ate like pigs and did not exercise or get off their lazy asses.

This must be a relativley new virus because before the 20th century I highly doubt there were as many obese people as there are today.

I see fat ass pudgy finger kids at the library everyday yanking on their mom's close. That is where it starts, in the youth. It is no virus, called bad parenting.

This just sounds like utter crap and just an excuse. Yeah, and alcoholism is a virus.

Question is : Does the virus cause obesity? Or are there some obesity related processes that cause widespread virus presence in body?

Originally posted by Frosty


Please, can you post a link that gives information as to how this virus makes people obese rather than just posting links saying "30% of obese people have this virus"?

I can.

www2.whdh.com...

Researchers studied more than 500 people. Thirty percent of the obese people tested positive for fat virus antibodies, while only ten percent of non-obese people did.

Originally posted by longbow
Question is : Does the virus cause obesity? Or are there some obesity related processes that cause widespread virus presence in body?

there's at least one button on your mouse, and the red stuff is clickable

This is all speculation, of course, but we've found a human virus we can give to chickens and mice and they get fat," said Dr. Richard Atkinson, a Virginia researcher who's president of Obetech Obesity Research Center. " ... and we've looked in people, and about 30 percent of obese people had this virus, and only 11 percent of [normal weight] people had it ... if you have this virus, your chances of getting obese are 60 percent to 100 percent."

disclaimer: some links may be outright harmful, clicking on execuatbles is also a no-no !

I suppose that the constant change in the definition of what is considered acceptable body mass has nothing to do with number of people who are considered obese? If you take the current standards over 80% of the professional athletes are considered overweight. I'm not talking the big football linemen, I am talking about pro basketball, pro baseball, pro hockey and the majority of football players. In 1986 I was 6'-2" 240 lbs. I on an average ran 3 miles per day and swam 2. I scored in the upper 5% of all of my physical fitness evaluations. In 1986 the Navy decided that it needed to get rid of so many people and one of the ways that they did that was to change their Body Mass Index requirements. They lowered the Body Mass requirement by 5% and gave you only 3 months to comply. Their solution was that I had to start working out to reduce my waist and neck size. Only problem was that the more I worked out the LARGER these measurements became. From what I understand, the only time MEDICALLY that weight becomes an issue is when it puts a strain on the body's ability to function properly. This kind of got lost in the scramble to make BILLIONS of dollars by taking advantage of society's manipulated views of what healthy is.

Very old news - at this point researchers are finding different infectious agents with different targets (ie., proteases, proteins, hormones) all with the same effects.

Check the Patent Office for treatments - lots approved, many applications.

What bothers me about this thread is the obvious lack of respect for fat or obese people regardless of the reason, simply because they're fat. All the comments about lazy this and that or try a treadmill and so on... It's just so indicative of how fat people are treated (in the USA) and I hate it.

A large percentage of people in the US are overweight and they get treated like second class citizens. What I want to know is, why does anyone care? You sound like you hate them. Why? Why so virulent? Sure, overweight people are risking their health, but it's their health.

You all don't talk this way about other people who risk their health by skydiving or race-car driving or smoking cigarettes or taking anti-depressants. You don't call them lazy and treat them like they're second class citizens... What's the freaking deal? You don't stand high and mighty over them and say that they just have no willpower to quit smoking. You encourage them. You're NICE and RESPECTFUL to them.

You think you can say anything you like to and about fat people and it's their fault. Well, maybe it is, Maybe they want to be fat. Maybe they have different priorities than looking like you think they should look. But that's no reason to talk like they're lower than you.

L - I'm really disappointed, man.

Have some respect!

Sorry about the rant. I know I'll probably regret it, but disrespect is a huge pet peeve of mine. Now, back to your fat-bashing frenzy.

I just wanted to give my support to ALL that BH just said. I wanted to say this a page ago, but decided it was best it came from another member instead of a moderator.

The statements made in this thread are stereotypical and bigoted. I don't know why a few of you don't understand that. Most of you wouldn't even consider saying something like...

"90% of poverty is just people being lazy"

or

"95% of people are poor because they choose so"

but you sure don't mind using that kind of blanket categorization on people who don't meet your sexy-meter requirements.



[edit on 1-7-2006 by Valhall]

I'm over it. I just get really pissed at this sort of attitude. Whether it's against fat people, gay people, alcoholic people or anorexics. Nobody deserves that kind of disrespect. I apologize if I screeched this thread to a halt.

One of my very best girlfriends was 5'2" tall and just about as wide. She was an adorable little sweetheart (she died in a car accident years ago). Anyway, she was so kind and valuable to me. She taught me so much. She used to cry to me because of the things people said to her and the way people treated her. It just hurts my heart. Her fat made her no less wonderful.

Tyra Banks did a show where she wore a 'fat suit' to see how people treated her. She was AMAZED at the difference. (especially interesting were the looks on their faces when they found out who she was!)

I hope this thread can get back on track and talk about the original subject and I'm sorry for the eruption, but please, at least think about what you're saying and that you never know who on this board might be fat and really be hurt by what you say.

Okay, what we have here is two data points that compliment each other:

1. The group of 500 people studied that showed that 30% of obese people have this virus, but only 10% of non-obese people do; AND

2. The research that shows when you squirt this virus into at least two different species (they tested chickens and mice I believe) they get obese.

That's pretty interesting findings, and the two together start to make it hard to argue against the premise this virus could be causing obesity in SOME people.

I'm surprised people arn't concidering the vaccination aspect of the sudden world rise in obesity.

Distemper, measles and many related viruses have also been much more widely and repeatedly vaccinated against during the same period obesity has 'spread', also at a time when more and more 'live virus' vaccinations are given.

Could this be the effect of a 'mutated super virus' that's 'evolved' from generations of vaccination?

By the way, I'm one of those people other women hate for being able to 'eat like a pig' (good food, but constantly, in huge servings) and stay skinny. Years of despirately trying to gain a lttle weight to look more 'womanly' and less like a 'stick' (I was constantly accused of purging etc. which gets pretty depressing) and failed miserably.

Then I became ill with a problem that effected the 'hormonal transfer station' of my digestive system but not my physical activity, and I became fat. Well the extra 20 Kg. in two months (despite more than quartering my food intake by the first month) still made me skinnier than most but it was at least 10 Kg. too much and I hated it. This so shocked me that I further harmed my health by not eating enough to maintain daily nutritional requirements, the live off the fat 'till it's gone, crazyness. Once I came to realize this and ate well again, not worrying about losing weight, my health recovered and the fat has all but melted away.

I still think the common spread of vaccinations best fits the timing of the world obesity 'epidemic'. Before Mc Donalds there was big fry ups of eggs, chops and sausages for breakfast, that was cooked in lard like everything else and never blotted on paper towels, and thickly buttered sandwiches with no 'low fat' anything, anywhere, in any meal and just as many 'lazy' people as we have today but so fewer fat folk.

Those who think that 'modern ease of living' (which has been around for many people who maintained normal weight, many generations before the advent of 'fast food', when high fat diets were the norm) explains it, don't take into account that worry, stress and presure (that has increased with maintaining modern lifestyles) can strip weight faster and more, than eating 'bugger all'.

A fun read on this topic is "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaimin(spl?) where a demon is well pleased with the effects of, "MEALS T.M.", that made people obese while killing them with malnutrition.

Actually, if you want to understand more about conspiracies, secret societies etc. and get good belly laughs instead of depression while you 'study', it's hard to go past anything Terry Pratchett has written. He uses his fantasy "Disc World", full of wizards, witches, "The Assasins Guild" and every other class of world society, to 'let you in' on how things are actually run and done. Sure it's all fantasy, but the fantasy of a very worldly wise old man. Think of Noam Chomsky and John Pilger on "happy pills".

Sorry about the digression, but the "Mac Fat" issue, always makes me think of "Good Omens" and Terry Pratchett.

What bothers me about this thread is the obvious lack of respect for fat or obese people regardless of the reason, simply because they're fat. All the comments about lazy this and that or try a treadmill and so on... It's just so indicative of how fat people are treated (in the USA) and I hate it.

While I certainly don't have any lack of respect for obese people, I also don't have an outpoouring of sympathy. Everyday, I walk to the Universita' degli Studi di Firenze. I eat fresh fruit in the morning, fresh salad for lunch, and usually a fairly large dinner of pasta or chicken. I jog on weekends, but nothing too exhausting. This diet/exercise plan is much much less rigourous than many of my classmates' plans. I am not overweight, nor are any, save a few, of my classmates. The few people I know who are obese regularly dine at McDonalds or other fast food restaurants and rarely walk/bike. Now, isn't this obesity a matter of their own personal choice? Obviously, there will be the rare case of someone who has genetic or medical problem that causes metabolic problems and leads to obesity, but assuming all obese people have this problem would be the same as assuming all murderers were abused as children; this is the case with a few, but certainly not all.

Someone mentioned earlier that the fatty foods doesn't explain it because before fast food, there were other fatty foods. Yes, this is true. But do you honestly think someone working in a cubicle today in New York, London, Paris, Rome, etc who eats fatty foods works anywhere NEAR as hard as people 200 years ago who had to build houses from scratch with their hands, hunt for animals, butcher their own meat, etc? No, I don't think so. Also, many of the foods today aren't bad necessarily because of the same fats. Often, there are trans fats and different types of oils and sugars which the body can easily convert to fat instead of immediateyl metabolising them.

A large percentage of people in the US are overweight and they get treated like second class citizens. What I want to know is, why does anyone care? You sound like you hate them. Why? Why so virulent? Sure, overweight people are risking their health, but it's their health.

You all don't talk this way about other people who risk their health by skydiving or race-car driving or smoking cigarettes or taking anti-depressants. You don't call them lazy and treat them like they're second class citizens... What's the freaking deal? You don't stand high and mighty over them and say that they just have no willpower to quit smoking. You encourage them. You're NICE and RESPECTFUL to them.

Yes, they are risking their health. But when you live in a nation with socialized healthcare, meaning your taxes will fluctuate based on the needs of the nation, and suddenly a large portion is becoming obese, meaning your taxes increase, then it becomes your problem. This is why state programs to increase fitness have started. The burden of having to care for someone who has made bad life choices is becoming ridiculous. I can't even imagine what it must be like in America.

Also, yes, you should be nice and respectful to them, but there is no reason you should coddle them. Why tell them "Oh, there is nothing wrong, you're just special or different" when they obviously have a medical condition? Would you do the same to someone who has cancer? No, you encourage them to lose weight, help them make better choices if willpower is their main problem. I've invited a friend of mine to walk with me to the University and jog with me, and it has helped her immensely. All it takes is a little effort to help them lose the weight. It does NOT mean to coddle them and make them think being obese is "natural".

think you can say anything you like to and about fat people and it's their fault. Well, maybe it is, Maybe they want to be fat. Maybe they have different priorities than looking like you think they should look. But that's no reason to talk like they're lower than you.

Okay, you think the reason obese people are obese is possibly because they don't want to look like "you think they should look"? I'll give you the fact that the media portrays exceptionally thin people as attractice, and no, that's not natural. But guess what? Nature doesn't want you to be obese, either. The fact that obese people develop diabetes, respiratory problems, joint problems, etc is nature telling them they have exceeded the bounds of their body's ability to care for itself. Just because we don't have to live in caves and hunt for food anymore isn't an excuse to allow yourself to live in excess. The human body is at it's healthiest when you live as if you were in a natural environment. This means fresh foods, frequent exercise, limiting processed foods, etc.

As I mentioned earlier, none of this is out of disrespect. I feel every human being deserves the same amount of respect. However, respect is far different from coddling, which I feel is the reason the educational system in Canada and the US have begun lagging behind. Not every child is meant to achieve a college degree or go on to be the CEO or president of something. There's a reason a European physician can practice in the USA freely, but an American doctor must take several board certification exams and often some extra seminars before they can practice in the EU. Although, the American military is leaps and bounds ahead of pretty much any EU nation, so I guess it's a trade off.

Ciao,
~MFP


[edit on 1/8/2006 by bsl4doc]

[edit on 1/8/2006 by bsl4doc]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What bothers me about this thread is the obvious lack of respect for fat or obese people regardless of the reason, simply because they're fat. All the comments about lazy this and that or try a treadmill and so on... It's just so indicative of how fat people are treated (in the USA) and I hate it.

In fact I am worried that it's exactly oposite... It looks like there is increasing tolerance to obesity (at least in US), which is not good IMO.

A large percentage of people in the US are overweight and they get treated like second class citizens. What I want to know is, why does anyone care? You sound like you hate them. Why? Why so virulent? Sure, overweight people are risking their health, but it's their health.

I am sure you would be also happy to pay for their healthcare? Because I would not give them a cent ,except those who have diabetes or obese genes. But the other ones should pay +5% income taxes or Medicare/Medicaid for their future treatment.

Indeed there should be some tolerance for those, who are obese because of illnes or such. I too have some obese friends. But we cannot tolerate obesity as whole, otherwise we will be soon surrounded by people looking like blimps.

Wow finally some good points made there. Thanks.

And theirs a Channel 4 article too if anyone wants a looksee. HERE

And can anyone tell me why 90% of us hadnt heard about this? was it hushed up? And is there some way to detect it and/or treat it?

30% doesnt sound like much but its a helluva lot of people remember.

'Viruses can lie dormant for many years and we've seen the crossover of the HIV virus, for example, from animals to humans. We may be seeing a similar thing now with the obesity virus,' suggests Dr John Foreyt from Baylor College, Texas.

Could this be why 10% of the non obese population are infected? Or could they be able to fight this virus, therefore possibly hold the cure? Or could they be the carriers?

[edit on 8-1-2006 by Shadow88]

An ex-girlfiend of mine is 4'6" tall, and pretty overweight. She eats all the right foods, she walks a lot at work, she walks on the treadmill every day. When we were together, she was riding a bicycle every day, up to about a mile or more, eating salads as meals, cutting WAY down on her fat and "bad food" intake among other things. All the things that people in this thread said that fat people don't do. The result was that her cholesterol came down somewhat. That was ALL. She MIGHT have lost 5 pounds, IF that much. Don't sit there and tell me that it's because she's lazy, or sits on her butt all the time, or any of that other junk. There are people out there that do all the right things, and simply CAN NOT LOSE WEIGHT. Nothing to do with a virus, or being lazy, or anything else along those lines. She has tried hard, and I have tried to help push her and encourage her, and do everything I could to help her, and she simply CAN'T lose the weight.

As far as there not being obese people in the past, they were there, and probably in just as big a percentage of the population as now, simply a lot of them didn't live very long. Many of the medical conditions realted to obesity that we can control now would have killed a large number of obese people in the past. Yea, our lifestyle now has a lot to do with the higher numbers of obese people out there, but that doesn't mean that they aren't trying to lose weight, or they should be slammed as being fat, or lazy or anything else that has happened in this thead.


[edit on 1/8/2006 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by longbow
In fact I am worried that it's exactly oposite... It looks like there is increasing tolerance to obesity (at least in US), which is not good IMO.

Fat people are the subject of the last acceptable prejudice. There are plenty of fat people in the US, yes, but it's not tolerated well. If you think that's true, put on a fat suit (like Tyra Banks did) and go about your normal day and see how you are treated. I dare you. Go shopping, eat an apple in public. See how people look at you.

What's the problem with tolerance, anyway? Why do you feel you have the right to dictate how others care for their bodies?

I am sure you would be also happy to pay for their healthcare? Because I would not give them a cent ,except those who have diabetes or obese genes. But the other ones should pay +5% income taxes or Medicare/Medicaid for their future treatment.

We don't get to choose whose healthcare we pay for. We have to pay for smokers who get cancer, for risk-takers who fall out of planes, crash in cars, fall off horses, get shot in gangfights, we have to pay for healthcare for babies of crack-moms, and children of dead-beat dads. All of these situations are preventable.

If you really think about all the people you're paying healthcare for, why pick out the fat people as just too much to be expected from you? That's prejudice.

But we cannot tolerate obesity as whole, otherwise we will be soon surrounded by people looking like blimps.

So what? That would make you look great! What business of yours is their body? Who dictates how you care for your body? How does 'being surrounded by people looking like blimps' hurt you?

That's what I don't understand. Is it that you have to look at their ugly fat?

Nothing to do with a virus, or being lazy, or anything else along those lines.

OH FOR THE LOVE OF- WE DIDNT SAY THAT! AGAIN were not saying its the virus for everyone, or even a lot of people, just that it could account for a random 30% of the overweight population.

And my comments weren't directed at you, or your message. They were directed at the complete lack of respect for overweight people, and the members that were saying that people are overweight because they're lazy, and sit on their butts all day, and eat junk food.

I think what Shadow is trying to point out though, is that your friend has a 30% chance that she could have a virus that prevents her being able to lose the weight when she is living according to a "healthy lifestyle".

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I am sure you would be also happy to pay for their healthcare? Because I would not give them a cent ,except those who have diabetes or obese genes. But the other ones should pay +5% income taxes or Medicare/Medicaid for their future treatment.

We don't get to choose whose healthcare we pay for. We have to pay for smokers who get cancer, for risk-takers who fall out of planes, crash in cars, fall off horses, get shot in gangfights, we have to pay for healthcare for babies of crack-moms, and children of dead-beat dads. All of these situations are preventable.

If you really think about all the people you're paying healthcare for, why pick out the fat people as just too much to be expected from you? That's prejudice.

Actually I am also against paying healthcare for drug addicts and smokers. It was their fault, they knew it can affect their health and they should carry consequences. The other things you named were just accidents and the babies were not able to make their choice.