White House to withdraw funding for rebuilding Iraq

Originally posted by Dr Love


His opinion (as you say) carries a hell of a lot more weight than others do.

Peace

No, it is just an opinion nothing more. Opinions do not carry any weight. By that I mean my opinion is just as good as yours or anyone elses. The same applies for him.

shots

Ummm no................your opinion and my opinion aren't as good as his opinion. Sorry to break the news to you. Once again I have a hard time figuring out your logic.

Peace

so you prefer they stay, continue fighting an unwinnable fight where money is wasted, lives are wasted and nobody gains other than big business?

get out now. leave Iraq. stop the senselss murder of innocents so your big companies can make barrels of money.


where are you going? where's our money for rebuilding? where's the defense of our struggling gov't? where's our protection from outside forces?

You mean withdraw the money Iraq never got?

Posted on Thu, Dec. 08, 2005
Investigators expect more arrests over Iraq reconstruction funds
BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
New York Daily News

WASHINGTON - Recent criminal charges for ripping off Iraq reconstruction funds have led to fresh tips from potential whistleblowers, and American investigators promised Wednesday there will be more arrests.

President Bush, in a speech Wednesday, railed against Iraqi corruption, but he didn't mention American corruption that has warranted an average of 50 criminal investigations for more than a year.

So far, about a dozen criminal cases have been referred to federal prosecutors by Stuart Bowen, special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, his spokesman, Jim Mitchell, told the New York Daily News.

Three former U.S. officials so far have been charged with taking kickbacks or bribes or skimming millions meant to rebuild Iraq.

Their arrests last month led to more than a dozen solid tips from whistleblowers, a source said.

"Most Americans are in Iraq at great personal sacrifice, but a few may be seeking ill-gotten personal gains," Mitchell said.

Bowen's team of 15 investigators, including 11 in Iraq, and dozens of auditors and interpreters are trying to trace $9 billion in funds. The cash was flown into Baghdad after the 2003 invasion to run ministries, but few records exist of who got paid with the shrink-wrapped bricks of U.S. currency delivered by the millions on Air Force C-17s every week, sources said.
Mercury News

What a freakin' mess!

Originally posted by Dr Love
Ummm no................your opinion and my opinion aren't as good as his opinion. Sorry to break the news to you. Once again I have a hard time figuring out your logic.

Well I only caught a short portion (perhaps the last i minutes) of the show because it already was on when I got up this morning, but all he did was say; I this, I that over and over; not once did he make a definitive statement saying "President Bush said this " or said that.

That to me means he was giving just his thoughts on the matter nothing more.


Does he have expertise in the matter? Yes I am sure he does and perhaps if he consulted the president would take what he has to say into consideration before making a final decision on the matter.

Originally posted by curme
You mean withdraw the money Iraq never got?

The missing money in Iraq is nothing new its started when Bremen was in Charge of the government.

But he got a medal for it.

It seems that after katrina 50 billion where re-directed also for Fema and then head of the Fema Brown.

Now complains from contractors in Iraq have been going on because 6 of 8 water purification plans has stop working for lack of funds.

Meanwhile;

More than two years of congress approved funding for the rebuilding efforts, electricity and oil production in Iraq is at or below production level unemployment remains high. Lets than half of construction money has been spend.

Our government is running out of our tax payer money to keep spending.

www.btcnews.com...




[edit on 4-1-2006 by marg6043]

I was hoping they could use their oil sales to pay for reconstruction but seems Haliburton needed some good ole fashioned commie hand outs. I feel bad for the Iraq democracy with those insurgents, violence, and damaged infistructure. Maybe they can pull out, grow up (Muslims need not kill Muslim or anyone really), and join the world. Especially since we need to send moe jobs overseas so we can buy cheap, plastic crap.

wait so you all who think our country were wasting money rebuilding iraq are now up in arms because it stops funding rebuilding? am i seeing things?

Hey folks,

This forum shouldn't be used as a place for rhetoric, unfounded accusations and other political baloney. This website is geared for people who think, question, answer with hard evidence and research.

Take your political baloney to the Yahoo discussion forums.

NOW....I asked a question back toward the beginning of this thread about what evidence exists that shows proof of $9 Billion indicated by the article that leads this thread being spent appropriately in Iraq. One person here attempted by providing some links:

Most up to date information -
www.defenselink.mil...

Other links -

www.defendamerica.mil...

www.whitehouse.gov...

www.rebuilding-iraq.net...,80077&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

www.state.gov...

www.portaliraq.com...

This was provided by Flyers Fan. Has anyone else bothered to examine any of these links?

I spent an hour looking through a variety of articles looking for evidence of money spent. I found a few links in these sites that are dead or that lead to articles that do not pertain to the titles. When an article did pertain, little or no indication was made about what money was spent for that project or even what we(the U.S.) had accomplished. Most of these articles are about an issue that exists and needs to be dealt with.

I saw a lot of double talk in the articles in these links. This double talk said almost nothing about what has been built or accomplished in Iraq. There is a link in one of them where you can report fraud....that link is dead. There is a lot of information in these websites that appears to indicate that there is almost no work actually going on in Iraq. There is a lot written giving the impression that much is going on, but there is very little written or shown about what is actually being fixed from this $9 Billion rebuilding budget.

Now....I challenge anyone to provide good evidence of independant support for the rebuilding in Iraq. Please don't provide links that are created by the companies that are being paid to do the work. Of course these companies will tell us that they are doing a wonderful job. I still saw very little proof in their websites. Someone show photos being sent back by CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, MSN or any other news agency that shows what great things these $9 Billion are doing in Iraq. I will continue to examine these links to see if I can find proof of U.S. money spent to rebuild Iraq.

Keep in mind what $9 Billion will do here in the U.S. while paying high paid union workers and contractors. The insurance payout on the WTC is 1.1 Billion.

Now I ask again, show some of our money's worth in Iraq, please?

Originally posted by Souljah
Well if Your Buddies would stop Blowing up Innocent People in their Houses, I am sure that the Insurgency in Iraq would decrease.

So THIS is the excuse the insurgence (and you) are using for them
blowing up innocent Iraqis lined up for work... blowing up innocent
Iraqis on their way to vote ... innocent Iraqis working on the
infrastructure, innocent Iraqi children receiving candy from an
American soldier .... Innocent Iraqis at a funeral ....

poor excuse

Edited because Crakeur informed me of my
error in reading the intent of his/her post.

My apologies.


[edit on 1/5/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Frankly, Iraq is an oil rich country. If the idiot insurgents
stop blowing up the pipelines the country will have more
than enough money to build what ever the heck it wants
all by itself. And isn't that the goal ... for Iraq to be
independent?? If America is there building .. that means
America is still there ... something more for anti-Americans
to whine about.

What so America can go round the globe wrecking what ever country it wants to and it shouldnt have to pay for the rebuilding? Maybe the anti-americans "whine" because of all the lies and bad deeds you do? If you make a promise to rebuild Iraq, then go back on it its a lie. These days tho i guess its fine to be a lier in America, just following Bushs example eh?

Originally posted by davenman
I spent an hour looking through a variety of articles looking
for evidence of money spent.

Excellent. Thank you.

I saw a lot of double talk in the articles in these links.

I didn't. But that's a matter of opinion I suppose.

show some of our money's worth in Iraq, please?

What would you like to see? If you are looking for documents
such as receipts and ledgers ... we don't have access to that type
of information. You also can't show pictures of electricity running
through the city. I don't know if people actually took pictures of
school books that were distributed, of all the shots and medical
care that has been given out ....

What exactly do you want? If it is obtainable, we'll give it a try.


[edit on 1/5/2006 by FlyersFan]

flyers fan,go back and reread my whole post (and all my other posts in this thread) and you will see that I was making light of the people who complained about the US involvment and are now complaining that they are cutting the rebuilding money.

Originally posted by HiddenReality
America can go round the globe wrecking what
ever country it wants to and it shouldnt have to pay for
the rebuilding?

Really racking up those negative points, eh HR?

Get a grip. The country isn't in ruins. Not even close.

1 - America didn't 'wreck' Iraq. It liberated it. Read the links
provided. The country works BETTER than it did under Saddam.
More electricity, more schools, better health care, better everything.
Also - the mass murder by the hundreds of thousands by
Saddam, the mass rapes, the torture of olympians, the theft
of BILLIONS of $$ Oil Money has stopped. Iraq just had it's
first free elections in ~ 40 years. We, and other countries,
are deeply involved in helping to rebuild. However, some of
the responsibility for rebuilding has to come from the Iraqis
themselves. THEY are the ones who have benefited from
being liberated. So yes, their country should also help
in the rebuilding.

The point of my post was that even if we stayed and did all
of the reconstruction and built up Iraq to better than Saddam
levels ... which we have done in some cases such as the
electric grid ... then the anti-americaners would just whine
that we are there too long. Damned if we do and damned
if we don't as far as some people are concerned.

Originally posted by Crakeur
flyers fan,go back .......

ahh ... I missed the humor.
Okay ... nevermind. Sorry for that.
I read it through but missed.

I have edited my post to address that.
Thanks.

[edit on 1/5/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

1 - America didn't 'wreck' Iraq. It liberated it. Read the links
provided. The country works BETTER than it did under Saddam.
More electricity, more schools, better health care, better everything.
Also - the mass murder by the hundreds of thousands by
Saddam, the mass rapes, the torture of olympians, the theft
of BILLIONS of $$ Oil Money has stopped. Iraq just had it's
first free elections in ~ 40 years. We, and other countries,
are deeply involved in helping to rebuild. However, some of
the responsibility for rebuilding has to come from the Iraqis
themselves. THEY are the ones who have benefited from
being liberated. So yes, their country should also help
in the rebuilding.

Where do you get this information? The power in Baghdad doesnt even stay on constantly each day, never mind the rest of Iraq. Sure the murder torture and rape of Saddams era are over, but the Americans are doing a fine job replacing it. Just as you are doing a fine job pillaging the oil and money payed to rebuild Iraq. Maybe you honestly believe your country went into Iraq for the right reasons, but its total rubbish to say the average Iraqi is better off at the moment then while under Saddam.

Originally posted by HiddenReality
Where do you get this information? The power in Baghdad doesnt even stay on constantly each day, never mind the rest of Iraq. Sure the murder torture and rape of Saddams era are over, but the Americans are doing a fine job replacing it. Just as you are doing a fine job pillaging the oil and money payed to rebuild Iraq. Maybe you honestly believe your country went into Iraq for the right reasons, but its total rubbish to say the average Iraqi is better off at the moment then while under Saddam.

Oh? And what "average" iraqi is this?
One in the south? North? East? Over the rainbow?

Come on, now are you honuestly trying to say that americans are causing ALL of the dammage in iraq?
Are you really saying that many iraqis are not able to do that themselves?

BTW, can I get some links to both government and military sites on supporting and against sides in this thread?
Have a little thing I'd like to try...

Originally posted by HiddenReality
The power in Baghdad doesnt even stay on constantly
each day, never mind the rest of Iraq.

Pre liberation the power in Baghdad didn't 'stay on constantly'
and there wasn't power over most of the rest of Iraq, except
in the few cities that enjoyed Saddams favor, like Fallujah.
(which enjoyed his favor because it was a terrorist arm of
his Baath party) However, that too didn't have 'constant power'.

Our electricians have said that getting power up to international
standards is taking a while because the grid there was so bad
and so antiquated and that most of Iraqs power grid was in
a poor state to begin with. NOT from our liberation ... but from
Saddams reign.

the murder torture and rape of Saddams era are
over, but the Americans are doing a fine job replacing it.

Oh? The Americans are mass murdering hundreds of thousands,
mass torturing and mass raping? They are torturing the Olympians
as well I suppose. Got any proof to back that up?

Just as you are doing a fine job pillaging the oil
and money payed to rebuild Iraq.

Yeah, right. We went to steal oil. If we wanted to steal their
oil fields we would have kept them back in 1991 when we
liberated Kuwait. We didn't. The only thing we did with the
oil was stop the ILLEGAL flows going into Syria and Jordan.
(gee .. wonder why Syria didn't want us to go into Iraq ...
Because it knew the ILLEGAL oil being shipped to it would stop)
Right now the insurgents are screwing up the oil flows,
which in turn hurts the IRaqis. If you have a problem with
where the oil is going .. best chat with the insurgent terrorists.

Maybe you honestly believe your country went
into Iraq for the right reasons

You betchya' I do. Yep. Honestly.

[qupte] but its total rubbish to say the average Iraqi is better
off at the moment then while under Saddam.

As was so nicely stated earlier ... What's an 'average' Iraqi??
The Kurds? They no longer have to fear genocide by Saddam
and his WMD. They also have a say in the government.
Women? They no longer have to fear the mass rapes and
the rapes being done in front of their husbands and families.
Men? They no longer have to fear mass murder, torture,
watching their families murdered and tortured.
Olympians? No more torture when they loose or just torture
for fun from Saddams son.
All Iraqis? They all have a say in their government and have
free elections for the first time in ~ 40 years. THEIR money
from the Oil for Food program is no longer being stolen
from them by the billions. THEIR oil money will now go
right to them. (once the insurgents figure this out perhaps
they'll stop blowing up their own oil fields... they are only
hurting themselves and their own countrymen .. not that
they seem to care)

So, I could say right back atchya' that it's rubbish to say that
the average Iraqi ISN'T better off at the moment than while
under Saddam.



[edit on 1/5/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by davenman
NOW....I asked a question back toward the beginning of this thread about what evidence exists that shows proof of $9 Billion indicated by the article that leads this thread being spent appropriately in Iraq. One person here attempted by providing some links:

That type of proof is out there, but may not be in the form that would satisfy you. The military tried to get the Iraqi media to provide those kind of examples, but were quickly denounced for buying the news.

Just before Bremer left Iraq, a large sum of money that was given to Iraq turned up as unaccounted for. Immediately, the cries went out that Bremer and other Americans stole the money. That was sensationalism, and sold like hotcakes. Turned out that the slightest bit of investigation revealed large-scale accounting irregularities in Iraq; no-one was keeping track of where the Iraqis were spending the money. Now this is not to say that there was not corruption going on; that would be naive to assume. And Iraq has a long and storied history of bribes and corruption, involving many nations, including France, Germany and Russia. But we all knew that.

Just recently , a thread was started that listed many countries and organizations showing their confidence in Iraq by extending credit to Iraq and forgiving past debt. In that article the following was written:

The US hopes the IMF deal will reduce reliance on its own financial support.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nothing wrong with that. Why we should be fully responsible for the costs of rebuilding infrastructure that the insurgency is destroying is puzzling to me, anyway.

The MSM does not, as a rule, report on successes in Iraq. Good news doesn't sell as well as bad news or a story on the latest US screw-up.

Now....I challenge anyone to provide good evidence of independant support for the rebuilding in Iraq. Please don't provide links that are created by the companies that are being paid to do the work. Now I ask again, show some of our money's worth in Iraq, please?

I suggest Michael Yon's website for his photographic and written record of his experiences in Iraq. I find him to be honest and up front. He is an independent journalist that maintains an excellent website of his experiences. A short excerpt of why he does what he does:

I was in the Army some years ago and maintained close contact with many friends who made a career of military service. Naturally, I had an interest in what was happening in Iraq--I had friends in harm's way.
But what spurred me to drop what I was doing, get on a plane and fly halfway around the world, to a war zone, was a growing sense that what I was seeing reported on television, as well as in newspapers and magazines, was inconsistent with the reality my friends were describing. I wanted to see the truth, first hand, for myself.

I saw American and Coalition soldiers putting everything on the line to accomplish their mission. So that Iraqi children can have the chance to grow up in freedom and fulfill their potential.

I saw resolve steel the jaw of a military leader.

I saw hope light the eyes of a young girl.

michaelyon.blogspot.com...

Bold emphasis added by me.

Throughout his blog, there are numerous examples of everyday successes in Iraq. Stuff you'll never see in the MSM. There won't be any accounting ledgers to examine, sorry to say. But the proof is still there. Take the time to browse through the site, I think you'll enjoy it.