US Air Strike Kills Iraqi Family of 12

Washington Post

U.S. pilots targeting a house where they believed insurgents had taken shelter killed a family of 12, Iraqi officials said Tuesday. The dead included women and children whose bodies were recovered in the nightclothes and blankets in which they had apparently been sleeping.

A Washington Post special correspondent watched as the corpses of three women and three boys who appeared to be younger than 10 were removed Tuesday from the house outside the town of Baiji, 150 miles north of Baghdad.

U.S. air strikes in Iraq increased almost five-fold over the course of 2005, going from 25 last January to 120 in November. The U.S. military says it uses only precision-guided munitions and makes every effort to minimize civilian casualties. Critics say civilian casualties are almost inevitable in air strikes in cities and towns, and they fault the military for not tracking civilian deaths from those strikes to better learn how to reduce them.

Here we go again.

A Deja-Vu of Operation Steel Curtain?

But I guess the Mighty US Forces, along with all their Spy Drones, Satellites, Scout Helicopters and Airplanes yet AGAIN made a Mistake and killed a Family of 12 with a Precision Guided bomb.

Sorry!

It was an Accident!

I mean where is the Logic in trying to Minimize Civilian Deaths by using Laser Guided Bombs - I mean, using ANY kind of bombs in an Urban Area WILL result in Civilan Deaths in one way or another.

Bombs Might become Smarter - but Men didn't.

Well shoot! You're right of course. Using a precision guided weapon to hit ONE HOUSE in a row of many isn't working, so let's go back to the days of carpet bombing and level the entire city to get one building.

You know, having spy sattelites, and recon units, and all the other high tech gadgets don't make us gods when it comes to intel gathering. The biggest source of intel is STILL going to be someone coming forward and saying "Hey I heard that so and so is going to be in this house tomorrow at noon." People make mistakes, or they're going to see it as a way of getting revenge on someone that did something wrong to them, or they just don't like someone. Yes it's terrible when it happens, and I wish that there WAS some way to keep it from happening, but there is no foolproof way to take out one person in the middle of hundreds. And the insurgents are going to use any advantage they can, so we're going to HAVE TO hit buildings that are in the middle of others.

Carpet bombing sounds like a plan to me, That way we wont have to worry about these people stabing us in the back 10 years from now.

And yes they will.

[edit on 4-1-2006 by C0le]

of course they will, you friggin' well deserve it too

carpet bombing is nice isnt it, lets see how you like it when someone carpetbombs your neighbourhood.
Its not war if only one side is receiving the bombs you know, its genocide.

So be a sport if you think you are in a war, support carpet bombing of your hometown !

Gee, do you think that MAYBE I was being slightly SARCASTIC in the first part of my reply?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Yes it's terrible when it happens, and I wish that there WAS some way to keep it from happening, but there is no foolproof way to take out one person in the middle of hundreds.

WHY did the US go and "Liberate" Iraq in the First Place?

Iraqi People are only Virtually Free - they are Free in the US Corpoate Media, they are Free when the Pentagon plants Fake News to make the situation in Iraq look Better.

Iraqi people are not Free - if you did not notice there is STILL a Bloody War going on in Iraq, and Iraqi Civilans are paying the Price. Just like this Family of 12 that Died after a Precision bombing strike by US Warplanes - and just like 30 People that Died Today when a Car bomb exploded at a Funeral.

Carpet Bombing Anyone?

[edit on 4/1/06 by Souljah]

*snort* if THAT is what you consider carpet bombing, you really need to learn the difference. If you want to see what carpet bombing looks like I suggest you look up Germany in WWII and look at their cities after a raid went through. There was virtually nothing left. Yes there's still a war going on in Iraq, and yes civilians are paying the price, but NOTHING compared to how it used to be. I don't know why we went into Iraq, but we're there, and we need to stay there until the end.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
... but we're there, and we need to stay there until the end.

whos end?

your end?



first post was for cole, not you Zaphod

Originally posted by Zaphod58
*snort* if THAT is what you consider carpet bombing, you really need to learn the difference. If you want to see what carpet bombing looks like I suggest you look up Germany in WWII and look at their cities after a raid went through.

What about Carpet Bombing the Vietnamese Peasants?

What about Carpet Bombing in Afganistan?

I am sure that all of them Deserved it, right?

Yes there's still a war going on in Iraq, and yes civilians are paying the price, but NOTHING compared to how it used to be.

So far 100.000 Innocent Civilans were killed in Liberation of Iraq. Tell me, are Iraqi People Better off now? Are they more Free then Before? What is their Freedom today? That they can choose between being Killed by an US Smart bomb or an Insurgents Car Bomb? Is that the Peak of Iraqi Democracy?

Because it sure looks like this.

I don't know why we went into Iraq, but we're there, and we need to stay there until the end.

Who's End is that?

Yours?

The Worlds?

OH Ofcourse - the End of Oil Reserves!



[edit on 4/1/06 by Souljah]

Thanks a lot for putting words in my mouth Souljah. I never said that ANYONE deserved to be carpet bombed, not even the Germans in WWII. But of course since I'm supporting events in Iraq, then according to you I have to feel that they deserved it right? I mean hey, I'm just a blood thirsty killer since I support Iraq.

Originally posted by Souljah

Washington Post

U.S. pilots targeting a house where they believed insurgents had taken shelter killed a family of 12, Iraqi officials said Tuesday. The dead included women and children whose bodies were recovered in the nightclothes and blankets in which they had apparently been sleeping.

A Washington Post special correspondent watched as the corpses of three women and three boys who appeared to be younger than 10 were removed Tuesday from the house outside the town of Baiji, 150 miles north of Baghdad.

U.S. air strikes in Iraq increased almost five-fold over the course of 2005, going from 25 last January to 120 in November. The U.S. military says it uses only precision-guided munitions and makes every effort to minimize civilian casualties. Critics say civilian casualties are almost inevitable in air strikes in cities and towns, and they fault the military for not tracking civilian deaths from those strikes to better learn how to reduce them.

Here we go again.

A Deja-Vu of Operation Steel Curtain?

But I guess the Mighty US Forces, along with all their Spy Drones, Satellites, Scout Helicopters and Airplanes yet AGAIN made a Mistake and killed a Family of 12 with a Precision Guided bomb.

Sorry!

It was an Accident!

I mean where is the Logic in trying to Minimize Civilian Deaths by using Laser Guided Bombs - I mean, using ANY kind of bombs in an Urban Area WILL result in Civilan Deaths in one way or another.

Bombs Might become Smarter - but Men didn't.

Souljah: Just out of curiosity, why dont you post when a suicide bomber killes 40 innocent people? If you really cared about the people you would. However you dont and the only reason you post this is because it demonizes US forces.

At least when the US does it its an accident. One inncident in the past 6 months isnt such a bad track record you know.

Iraqi People are only Virtually Free - they are Free in the US Corpoate Media, they are Free when the Pentagon plants Fake News to make the situation in Iraq look Better.

So since it hasnt happened over night you have decided to crap all over any other effort they make?

If you Support that, well...

You see? He acts as if its the Iraqi people he cares about yet, he wants them back under Saddams rule and he only really cares about them when he can use their deaths as more proof the US is evil. Whya rent you outraged that insurgents use civilians as shields and their houses as hiding places? Do you expect the Us military to call of the fight because they are using civilians?



[edit on 4-1-2006 by Dronetek]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
But of course since I'm supporting events in Iraq, then according to you I have to feel that they deserved it right? I mean hey, I'm just a blood thirsty killer since I support Iraq.

Excuse me, but What Exactly do you Support then in Iraq?

You said you're not going Anywhere until the End, right?

Well, it is a Long Walk to the End - you sure you want to see how it works out; I mean how it don't work out?

Because I am sure there will be plenty more of Precisions bombs falling on Innocent Civilans, who's only Crimes was that they are Born in Iraq.

If you Support that, well...

Originally posted by Dronetek
Souljah: Just out of curiosity, why dont you post when a suicide bomber killes 40 innocent people? If you really cared about the people you would. However you dont and the only reason you post this is because it demonizes US forces.

I am sure that skippy or his friend NumberCrusher will be more then Happy to post that instead of me - since they have shown that they really Care for the Well-being of Iraqi People and I don't.

When thinking about topics like this, try putting yourself into the Iraqi civilans Shoes and try to see from their Perspective - you think that they feel Free and Protected? If some Suicide Bomber does not blow them up when they go to the Mosque, an US Airplane will bomb their House and kill their Family.

Well, it's War going on, right?

What Could I Expect.

At least when the US does it its an accident. One inncident in the past 6 months isnt such a bad track record you know.

Operation Steel Curtain was roughly one Month Ago and in this Operaton US Airplanes also Bombed alot of Houses with Suspected Terrorists Inside - and killed 140 SUSPECTED Insurgents.

You see? He acts as if its the Iraqi people he cares about yet, he wants them back under Saddams rule and he only really cares about them when he can use their deaths as more proof the US is evil.

Why didn't you show that CARE when Saddam was Killing his own People? Did you even know that there is a Dictatorship Regime in Iraq, that was installed by the US and the West to Counter the Communist expansion in the Middle East during the Cold War?

Did you show your Care for those Iraqi civilans that Saddam Killed, when he used the US Chemicals?

Well Today you can Brag around how the US is Liberating the Iraqi people from the Evil Dicator which they THEMSELVES supported and helped to get Armed to the Teeth.

It's so easy these Days to do that:

Problem, Reaction, Solution Paradigm does the Rest.

External source
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

"...since the fall of Baghdad the U.S. has been directly responsible for only 3.8% of fatalities reported, as many deaths over almost two years as Saddam averaged in 10 days."


"The only way to describe the actions of the U.S. Military in its role of "occupier" is a compassionate and careful army that avoids collateral damage despite its dangerous mandate to hunt for terrorists and non-uniformed combatants hidden within the civilian population. It is nothing short of miraculous that our Armed Forces have been able to eliminate as many terrorists and enemy combatants as they have with so little actual collateral damage."

May Peace be with these poor innocent souls.

We all know the Islamofascists now cause 96pc of the death's in Iraq.

When thinking about topics like this, try putting yourself into the Iraqi civilans Shoes and try to see from their Perspective - you think that they feel Free and Protected? If some Suicide Bomber does not blow them up when they go to the Mosque, an US Airplane will bomb their House and kill their Family.

I'll tell you what. They will feel a lot less free is the US leaves. In fact, they can just forget about any chance they have for freedom. This may be news to you, but freedom and democracy doesn’t come over night. It's won by blood, guts and determination. If the Iraq people want to be free, they will have to fight and die for it. The US is there now to help facilitate that, because without us the Iraqi people will just be subjugated under another harsh dictator.

Did you even know that there is a Dictatorship Regime in Iraq, that was installed by the US and the West to Counter the Communist expansion in the Middle East during the Cold War?

Wow, this is a complete lie. One that I see you repeat over and over.

www.infoplease.com...

In 1963, after the Ba'ath party came to power, he returned to Baghdad where he continued his law studies and increased his involvement in the party's activities. The Ba'ath regime was short-lived and without its protection Hussein went into hiding, though he was eventually tracked down and imprisoned for several years.

He escaped from prison and continued his underground activities, playing a significant role in the 1968 revolution that brought the Ba'ath party in to lasting power. As vice president, Hussein wielded considerable power in the government noted for political repression and human rights violations. He also led efforts to modernize the country and develop its weak economy and oil resources. When President Ahmed Hasan al-Bakr resigned in 1979, citing poor health, Hussein became president. Within a month, rivals in the Ba'ath party, accused of plotting a coup, were executed.

Why didn't you show that CARE when Saddam was Killing his own People?

I did. I supported the original war and I hoped that we would take Saddam out then. All through the 90's I hoped we would take saddam down because I knew he was a horrible dictator who slaughtered his own people. After 9/11, I signed up so that I could go fight. Because even though we know Saddam didn’t have anything to do with 9/11, the first thing I thought when it happened was, "saddam". In conclusion, I have always cared about the Iraq people. When I was in junior high school I even did a report on the suffering of the Iraqi people.

Did you show your Care for those Iraqi civilans that Saddam Killed, when he used the US Chemicals?

Again, you take true information and twist it so that it fits your little conspiracy. The truth is that we gave saddam medicine supplies that he converted to weaponized chemicals. He was also fighting our main enemy at the time because as you might know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Yet I don’t really see what that has to do with the fact you only post abut Iraqi deaths what it helps your propaganda campaign. Why don’t you address that?

Well Today you can Brag around how the US is Liberating the Iraqi people from the Evil Dicator which they THEMSELVES supported and helped to get Armed to the Teeth.

If what you say is true, than isn’t it our responsibility to clean up the mess we made? You just seem to be angry because Saddam is out of power.












[edit on 4-1-2006 by Dronetek]

numbercruncher... I can't believe you continue to quote that blatantly racist site as some kind of media...

If I made a site with a barrage of negative things done around the world by people who were Christians or Jews, and called it something stupid like 'peacetoallmen.com' I would be totally slammed as a bigot.. or (more evenhandedly perhaps) painfully short sighted and unfairly generalist... and a bigot... and rightly so...

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
External source
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

"...since the fall of Baghdad the U.S. has been directly responsible for only 3.8% of fatalities reported, as many deaths over almost two years as Saddam averaged in 10 days."

Yes, we all know your Source for Non-Biased Informaton by now.

Well the Rest of the World outside your little Bubble has a Different Story about the Iraqi casualties.

Iraqi Bodycount

• US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims.
  
  
• Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.
  
  
• Post-invasion criminal violence accounted for 36% of all deaths.
  
  
• Killings by anti-occupation forces, crime and unknown agents have shown a steady rise over the entire period.
  
  
• Air strikes caused most (64%) of the explosives deaths.
  
  
• Children were disproportionately affected by all explosive devices but most severely by air strikes and unexploded ordnance (including cluster bomblets).

[edit on 4/1/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Qoelet
numbercruncher... I can't believe you continue to quote that blatantly racist site as some kind of media...

If I made a site with a barrage of negative things done around the world by people who were Christians or Jews, and called it something stupid like 'peacetoallmen.com' I would be totally slammed as a bigot.. or (more evenhandedly perhaps) painfully short sighted and unfairly generalist... and a bigot... and rightly so...

This is true, but I think you would be hard pressed to find another religion that is currently involved in a global jihad. Not to mention one that is currently slaughtering people on a daily basis.

Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.

How could this possibly be true? The "anti-occupation forces" are killing people by the hundreds on a daily basis.


The fact your website calls them "anti-occupation forces" shows their bias. Your source is no different then the religionofpeace site.

[edit on 4-1-2006 by Dronetek]

Originally posted by Dronetek
The fact your website calls them "anti-occupation forces" shows their bias. Your source is no different then the religionofpeace site.

Well, lets see shall we?

A Dossier of Civilian Casualties in Iraq - 2003–2005

"A Dossier on Civilian Casualties in Iraq, 2003-2005" is the first detailed account of all non-combatants reported killed or wounded during the first two years of the continuing conflict. The report, published by Iraq Body Count in association with Oxford Research Group, is based on comprehensive analysis of over 10,000 media reports published between March 2003 and March 2005.

Well I think that makes them a little more Qualified then this Statement:

We Don't Do Bodycounts!

General Tommy Franks, US Central Command

Geee, who do I belive, let me think....



[edit on 4/1/06 by Souljah]

Ok lets clear this up right now. Does the US Army, Marines, Air Force or Navy target civilians by policy? NO! Are there certain individuals in the US armed forces who have purposely targeted civilians? Certainly. But Souljah in this case I believe it was an accident, intel is never 100% certain, nothing is. But dont pedal it as a blatant targeting of civilians because that is not how the US operates, while I will conceed that there are cruel individuals who will do that in the US armed forces. But dont put the blame on all of the armed forces in general because it isnt responsible and it isnt right.