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"Prove Christ exists" orders judge

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posted on Jan, 26 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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Look unto the mirror for you all are a reflection of "The Christ".




posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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The arguement of Christ not existing is laughable. Not a little bit laughable, but alot.

Before I continue, there are those, that despite the evidence, will say that the Holocaust never existed. There was a program on PBS about it. About the measurements for various toxins, and the logistics if killing that many people. Basically saying that the Nazis werent anywhere close to the numbers claimed by history. I think we can agree this happened.

The number of Russians that have been killed in History,....Russian Jews. What? 9 Million some odd? Ever hear about that one? History rewritten or buried. Most want to forget this.

How about the 15000 to 20000 Polish Officers that were supposedly killed by the Nazis, that were really killed by the Russians. A Lie in History that came out.

No man on the moon. Despite people spending their entire careers working in the mission control. Was that all a big Joke too?

You see, there are many people that can make the statement, " never happened ". Easy to do. Its easy to a take a persons life, who did indeed exist, and compile it into irrelevance. Sad.

That arguement to prove that Christ Existed is in my opinion, just another such arguement. We can armchair quarterback his existence.
We live in a world where if there is no certified documentation, birth certificates, degrees or licenses, then your not valid. On top of that, its been shown that history tends to rewrite itself according to the political climate of the time.

Whether Christ existed or not...His message was there.
"Love one another as I have love you."
Prove that shouldnt be.

Peace



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 12:23 PM
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It doesn't matter anymore the case has been thrown out

He brought his case under Italian laws that forbid conning the public.

He said he was now considering taking the case to the European Court of Human Rights.

"This is not surprising, but it doesn't mean it all ends here," the AP news agency quoted him as saying.

A lawyer for Father Righi said he was pleased with the court's decision.

"Father Righi is very satisfied and moved," Severo Bruno said.


I think this should be appealed, but in the end, Christian judges will back good priests lest they be sent to hell,



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 04:53 PM
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The judge enforces laws written by men. And he, despite being presented with documentation of the existence of Jesus through eye witnesses does not honor the system by which his own court functions?

By a preponderance of the evidence, Jesus Existed.

I see History Repeating Itself...

Weve Seen this in History.

The Jews did not believe who Jesus was, and Jesus responded that
if they cant even believe their own scriptures..then how so will they believe him?

And even if all the scriptures and writings of man were to vanish today and man was reduced to a man and woman who never knew Religion or God.

The only way mankind will make it is with Love and all its aspects.

Christ was Gods love made manifest

The rest is Faith

Peace

[edit on 18-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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HIFI, we have no eyewitness accounts of "jesus"
the earliest account of him are from around the year 70 CE
well after "jesus" died

by preponderance of evidence, jesus does NOT exist
if you want to challenge this, go back over to my thread on whether or not "jesus" existed as a historical figure



posted on Jan, 18 2007 @ 11:10 PM
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www.articlealley.com...

Oh? Well lets take a look at his beloved Apostles for a minute...to see their fate..as they died for the Truth.

These men died for belief in him. Were each of their Deaths a Hoax too?

Around 54 A.D., Philip , an early disciple from Galilee, was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified.

About six years later, Matthew , the tax-collector from Nazareth who wrote his gospel, was preaching in Ethiopia when he suffered martyrdom by the sword.

James , the brother of Jesus, whose burial box was recently discovered, became the leader of the early church in Jerusalem and was the author of an Epistle by his name. At age 94, he was beat and stoned, and finally had his brains bashed out with a club.

Matthias was the apostle who took the place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded.

Andrew was the brother of Peter who preached the gospel throughout Asia. He was crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed in an X-Shape in the ground (this is where we get the term, St. Andrew's Cross).

Mark was converted to Christianity by Peter, and then transcribed Peter's account of Jesus in his Gospel, was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria Egypt in front of Serapis, their pagan idol.

Peter was crucified at Rome? upside down, at his own request, because he said he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord.

Paul suffered in the first persecution under Nero. Paul's faith was so dramatic in the face of martyrdom, that the authorities removed him to a private place where he was beheaded with a sword.

In about 72 A.D., Jude , the brother of James who was commonly called Thaddeus, was crucified at Edessa.

Bartholomew preached in several countries and translated the Gospel of
Matthew into the language of India. He was savagely beaten and then crucified there.

Thomas , called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India, where he was thrust through with a spear.

Luke the physician and the author of the Gospel under his name and traveled with Paul through various countries? was hung on an olive tree in Greece.

John , the "beloved disciple," was the brother of James. From Ephesus he was ordered to Rome, where he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. The Romans banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death.

When man cannot believe any man, then man has what he has perpetuated on himself.

Each of these men were sentenced to death...for Christ.

And you say he didnt exist?..Please.

How about Man on the Moon?
911
JFK
WMDs

Mankind is on a crash course with reality.

Peace



[edit on 18-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by HIFIGUY
www.articlealley.com...

Oh? Well lets take a look at his beloved Apostles for a minute...to see their fate..as they died for the Truth.

These men died for belief in him. Were each of their Deaths a Hoax too?

Around 54 A.D., Philip , an early disciple from Galilee, was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified.


well, i can't argue that many christians died
i can still argue that there was no "jesus"



About six years later, Matthew , the tax-collector from Nazareth who wrote his gospel, was preaching in Ethiopia when he suffered martyrdom by the sword.


how did he write the gospel in 70 CE when he was already dead?



James , the brother of Jesus, whose burial box was recently discovered, became the leader of the early church in Jerusalem and was the author of an Epistle by his name. At age 94, he was beat and stoned, and finally had his brains bashed out with a club.



it was a fake, a forgery
here's a link to the story



Matthias was the apostle who took the place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded.


you keep making these statements, but can you back them up with something more than this article?
this guy seems like he may be a reputable theologian (being a pastor), but i don't think that qualifies him as a historian



Andrew was the brother of Peter who preached the gospel throughout Asia. He was crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed in an X-Shape in the ground (this is where we get the term, St. Andrew's Cross).


i've always heard these claims, but i've never heard where they come from



Mark was converted to Christianity by Peter, and then transcribed Peter's account of Jesus in his Gospel, was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria Egypt in front of Serapis, their pagan idol.


was this before or after 60 CE?



Peter was crucified at Rome? upside down, at his own request, because he said he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord.


this seems like myth
the romans wouldn't give half a flying crap about his wishes
they would have gone with standard procedure



Paul suffered in the first persecution under Nero. Paul's faith was so dramatic in the face of martyrdom, that the authorities removed him to a private place where he was beheaded with a sword.


well, i know paul existed, but he had no contact with jesus
persecution of early christians IS NOT evidence that jesus existed



In about 72 A.D., Jude , the brother of James who was commonly called Thaddeus, was crucified at Edessa.


o, now i get another date
but no citation from the theologian writing the article



Bartholomew preached in several countries and translated the Gospel of
Matthew into the language of India. He was savagely beaten and then crucified there.


why would he have been crucified in a place where they didn't crucify people?
and why is it commonly held the this apostle was killed in armenia?



Thomas , called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India, where he was thrust through with a spear.


ok, another person dies without citation



Luke the physician and the author of the Gospel under his name and traveled with Paul through various countries? was hung on an olive tree in Greece.


luke most likely never even met jesus
not evidence for the existence of jesus



John , the "beloved disciple," was the brother of James. From Ephesus he was ordered to Rome, where he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. The Romans banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death.


now you go from attempted history to blatant myth
whenever you say a miracle was involved
and also, it merges john the beloved disciple with john of patmos, 2 seperate people



When man cannot believe any man, then man has what he has perpetuated on himself.


i believe many people
just not ones that tell me that the only way to achieve salvation is through an exclusivist religion



Each of these men were sentenced to death...for Christ.


no, they died for CHRISTIANITY



And you say he didnt exist?..Please.


a bunch of people die for a religion
therefore jesus exists

so i assume all the pagan gods exist too?
because a bunch of people died for them during the inquisition



How about Man on the Moon?


not related
nor is it appropriate to discuss on FST



911
JFK
WMDs



none of these are appropriate topics to discuss on FST




Mankind is on a crash course with reality.

Peace


you're right
the world's leading thinkers do forsee a world without religion



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 11:13 AM
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May be a bit off topic, but I'm still trying to figure out why it matters whether he existed or not. He had some good ideas if nothing else, the whole love thy neighbor shtick was pretty nifty in my opinion. You can still believe the message without believing the messenger was there. You can still disbelieve the message even if he never existed. Or if he was just a normal guy.

What difference does it make?



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by MCory1
What difference does it make?


well
whether or not the man existed historically makes a difference
for those of us that would argue that the evidence for the existence of jesus is flimsy at best, the teaching of jesus as a historical figure would point to an educational bias towards students of the christian and muslim faiths



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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To men is Truth revealed, according to their capacity to understand and receive.

The One Truth hath many sides, and one seeth one side only, another seeth another, and some see more than others, according as it is given to them.

Behold this crystal: how the one light its manifest in twelve faces, yea four times twelve, and each face reflecteth one ray of light, and one regardeth one face, and another another, but it is the one crystal and the one light that shineth in all.

And that which is seen and received by one, is not seen and received by another. That which appeareth true to some, seemeth not true to others. They who are in the valley see not as they who are on the hill top.

As ye keep the holy Law of Love, which I have given unto you, so shall the Truth be revealed more and more unto you, and the Spirit of Truth which cometh from above shall guide you, albeit through many wanderings, into all Truth, even as the fiery cloud guided the children of Israel through the wilderness.

Peace


[edit on 19-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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Before i get a little off topic, i'd like to say Luigi Cascioli would regret it if he was to get what it is he is asking for. What would happen to him if it was proven, and he had no choice but to believe that which he does not believe in? Not only would he forfiet his gift of free will, but i'm sure the proof would be more than he could bare, since he is not prepared to have it.



Originally posted by menguard
Look unto the mirror for you all are a reflection of "The Christ".


OK, i will.

Ch = one sound. "ch"
t = +, and "+" = the sign for addition, or to add/plus.

chris+ [mirror] +sirch

translation through the mirror = in addition/add/plus sirch (search)

to add to the search [mirror] christ


Christmas [mirror] same + search (add people to the same search)



[edit on 19-1-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Before i get a little off topic, i'd like to say Luigi Cascioli would regret it if he was to get what it is he is asking for. What would happen to him if it was proven, and he had no choice but to believe that which he does not believe in? Not only would he forfiet his gift of free will, but i'm sure the proof would be more than he could bare, since he is not prepared to have it.


Excellent Point


Originally posted by menguard
Look unto the mirror for you all are a reflection of "The Christ".



Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
OK, i will.

Ch = one sound. "ch"
t = +, and "+" = the sign for addition, or to add/plus.

chris+ [mirror] +sirch

translation through the mirror = in addition/add/plus sirch (search)

to add to the search [mirror] christ


Christmas [mirror] same + search (add people to the same search)


Im not sure what all that means..lol..but I think the Mirror Statement more
goes along the lines of the Quote below.

"Jesus, said unto his disciples, Because of the sick I am sick; because of the hungry I am hungry; because of the thirsty I am athirst. "

Peace


[edit on 19-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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if i were to ask for proof and it was presented to me, how would that be an infringement of my free will?



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
if i were to ask for proof and it was presented to me, how would that be an infringement of my free will?


You would no longer have the free will to believe or not believe.

Once you have the proof, how could you choose to not believe?

This is what i meant.



thanks,
john



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul



Mankind is on a crash course with reality.

Peace


you're right
the world's leading thinkers do forsee a world without religion


"World's leading thinkers"

Ya, and look where their thinking is leading us. Do you think it is the ideals of religious teachings that are the problem, or those who are affecting world events? Personally, i do not think they are one in the same, from their perspectives.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
"World's leading thinkers"

Ya, and look where their thinking is leading us.


they aren't leading us anyway
they lead their fields
however, we don't live in a state run by philosopher-kings (much to plato's dismay)



Do you think it is the ideals of religious teachings that are the problem, or those who are affecting world events? Personally, i do not think they are one in the same, from their perspectives.


i think the ideals are good
but the teachings are bad
religion is a huge problem
many of the people affecting world events are also the problem



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
if i were to ask for proof and it was presented to me, how would that be an infringement of my free will?


You would no longer have the free will to believe or not believe.

Once you have the proof, how could you choose to not believe?

This is what i meant.

thanks,
john


the second i ask for proof i actually give up my free will regarding the decision
then again, one could argue that there is no free will in any of the religions
but that's a topic for a different thread



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

the second i ask for proof i actually give up my free will regarding the decision



"Asking" to me is more like a request, not an ultimatum. So, i don't think you would lose free will, since even though you've asked, your request has not been answered.

"Demanding" proof from God (not a believer, or person) leads down somewhere you do not want to go.



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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esoteric
Before i get a little off topic, i'd like to say Luigi Cascioli would regret it if he was to get what it is he is asking for. What would happen to him if it was proven, and he had no choice but to believe that which he does not believe in? Not only would he forfiet his gift of free will, but i'm sure the proof would be more than he could bare, since he is not prepared to have it.

Contraire, his free will was exorcised in his challenge of God to know...
He made his choice of his own free will...
Therefore, fair play, Queen to Kings Knight Four, next move...
The free will is not forfeited, the new found knowledge expands his ability to reason and move his will foreword in his new reality, and knowing God exist would most surely relieve him of any regret, initially.....
His free will would still remain fully intact, although quite altered from his new found perspective and then the real challenge would begin, alter-ing his own character to either line up with the LORD's devine purpose, or choosing to go it alone, same free will, different zone. It is the remorse of wrongful choosing that would be more than he could bare at that point...

CA



posted on Jan, 19 2007 @ 10:12 PM
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Here is a simpler version of Esoteric.

Where A is absolute proof of Christ and B is absolute proof of no Christ.

A and B is not a valid arguement just as A and Not A is not Valid

Therefore

The ONLY option is A OR B Not A and B.

Esoteric said if A then Not B

If not B concludes only A

Only A

Checkmate

Peace

[edit on 19-1-2007 by HIFIGUY]



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