You say "Freedom", I say "Freedumb"

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posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 02:43 AM
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A recent post I read riled me up, more than just a bit. Instead of making a long reply, I decided to just make a post to it. It seems the police have more time on their hands then anything. Any of you who have ever worked the second or third shift can attest. I get pulled over, on an average, about once a week. Not because I'm speeding, or have a headlight out. But because its 1 am. No other reason. I've been told "You swerved a little", or they wanted to know where the dent in the front came from. All BS. I've seen the same ones do it over and over. I mean, I almost know them on a first name basis.

But do they ever get any nicer to me? Do they ever apologize? No, I get looked at like "Your lucky your not going to jail." I'm not a criminal. I'm not breaking any laws. So why can they pull me over? What right do they have? Might I be a terrorist?

Perhaps I could just go to the station on my night off and wait for one to start his shift. Then just follow him wherever he goes, and record it. They do it to us. Have you looked up at any stop lights lately? Notice anything new up there? I am pratically recorded the whole way home. Whats next? Perhaps they could time me from one stop light to the next and determine if I broke the speed limit and mail me a ticket. (this allready happens....Anyone use an "I-Pass"?)

I cant download a song off the net, although dual cassette recorders were perfectly legal, now I'm faced with $300k lawsuits if I do. My credit card companies minimun payment is doubling this month, simply because the law allows them to. My heating bill is up over $300 a month from last year. My car now takes almost $40 to fill up. My cigarettes are over 4 dollars a pack, even though I cant go to a bar and smoke them. If I want to smoke a little green stuff in bed with the wife, I can go to prison and lose my house and family, yet I am constanly bombarded with ad after ad for alcohol, which destroys more lives in a year then marijuana has since it began it's existance.

I see us on TV in Iraq, and I feel for these people. Here we are, the great "bringers of freedom", just salivating, waiting untill we get to open the first Walmart there. We say we are bringing them freedom, but are we? Or are we making them slaves to the same dollar that we have become?

Some might say "Vote!". I do, but does it matter? No. Only the electoral does. Is that all that freedom means anymore? The right to vote a meaningless vote? Soon a passport will be needed just to travel by plane inside the country. And if you've ever driven this country, you know that an out-of-state plate will almost guarantee you getting pulled over and stopped at least one time in every state you go to.

So lets see here.... I can't be out late, and if I am, I better have ID. I can't travel freely without being harrassed. If I dont want the whole CD full of crap, I better hope its on the radio (which costs 50 a month now). I can get wasted, but it better be with what the government says I can (they DO know best). I can try to vote in people with whom I hope to change things, but since its like trying to drain the Atlantic with a straw, its hopeless.

So what exactly are we "free" to do? Everyone says it, but noone knows what it is. When I was in Amsterdam, I smoked with someone I met, and we had a good talk about the differences between Americans and Europeans. He said that the difference was simple. Americans live to work, Europeans work to live. Its no wonder the rest of the world doesnt want us pushing our lifestyle on them. We are slaves to the dollar. We are a beast that needs to keep consuming.

So someone please tell me... what is our "freedom" that we want to bring to the rest of the world?

[edit on 3-1-2006 by spliff4020]




posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 06:11 AM
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good point of view imho, good points, great read !

sorry i have no optimistic words to make you feel better



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 06:24 AM
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Great post Spliff.

You and I disagree on a lot of issues, but not this one. I'm right down the line with you on this one.

I used to get stopped by the damn cops all the time in my old neighborhood (Humboldt Park, Chi Town). When I asked why, they intimated that no law-abiding white person would walk the street in that part of town, and so logically they assumed I was there to buy drugs.



I lived in the damn neighborhood, I saw how bad it got, shootings, gang brawls (20-30 people involved), muggings, break-ins, dealers on every third corner - and yet the cops had enough time to break my balls. Utter nonsense.

As far as Iraq, and the quality of our freedom re: voting, again, I'm in total agreement with you on the issue.

Just thought I'd jump on this thread and show my support for your opinions. (Just these ones though!)


From one head to another, be smart, stay cool, and uhm..quitters never win.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 07:45 AM
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Disclaimer --> I'm probably going to say some things you won't like... but not because I disagree with you.


Originally posted by spliff4020
I get pulled over, on an average, about once a week.

There is a reason... really... you just might be in denial about it. Generally, local cops have some degree of unspoken or unpublished quotas that their "performance review" may rely upon. In order to ensure they prove they're doing something during occasions of low activity elsewhere, they'll find the "low hanging fruit". If this frequency is indeed true, something about you is signaling that you may be one of these targets.



Have you looked up at any stop lights lately? Notice anything new up there? I am pratically recorded the whole way home.

You're not yet surveilled completely, though much of the technology is in place. However, many of the traffic cameras are simple still-image captures triggered by motion when there should be none. Fixed-mount cameras on traffic lights are almost always these type. Instead, look for the gimbal-mount cameras on the corner.



I cant download a song off the net, although dual cassette recorders were perfectly legal, now I'm faced with $300k lawsuits if I do.

It's always been illegal to copy music (and any intellectual property) you don't own, or distribute copies of music you own. Devices themselves may not be illegal, but certain uses can be... two very different animals. There's deeper problems with the music industry than file sharing... why else would concerts from the Rolling Stones and Paul Mcartney be grossing historic ticket sales? In any event, I'm continually confounded by the inability for many to understand why it is wrong to freely distribute the intellectual property of someone else. Granted... the monolithic music empires are a model on the way out, but it's currently the one we have.



My credit card companies minimun payment is doubling this month, simply because the law allows them to.

Generally because there have been a history of slow payments. But check your state laws... simply because they try something is no indication they are allowed to.



My heating bill is up over $300 a month from last year.

Oil heat? You need to lock-in your rate in the late-summer or early fall. Those who didn't are indeed seeing increases of over 200%.



My car now takes almost $40 to fill up.

Pretty much in-line with the rest of the world. We had it easy for too long.



My cigarettes are over 4 dollars a pack, even though I cant go to a bar and smoke them.

Stop smoking.



If I want to smoke a little green stuff in bed with the wife, I can go to prison and lose my house and family, yet I am constanly bombarded with ad after ad for alcohol, which destroys more lives in a year then marijuana has since it began it's existance.

It's about personal responsibility. There's volumes that can be debated about marijuana versus alcohol... but suffice to say, if marijuana was cultivated and packaged by business for 500+ years, it'd likely be legal now.




He said that the difference was simple. Americans live to work, Europeans work to live. Its no wonder the rest of the world doesnt want us pushing our lifestyle on them. We are slaves to the dollar. We are a beast that needs to keep consuming.

This is where you began making sense.


However, we are not truly free, but our liberties are being squandered...

You have a family... you're not free. The responsibilities of providing for your family will restrict your personal freedoms and require an outlook that must coordinate a collaboration with the status quo. (and, what better reason to stop smoking than for your family?)

You have a car... you're not free... you must follow the rules of engagement for operating your car on the roads.

You have a job... you're not free... you must follow the guidelines required to maintain your job (or loose it).

You have a home... you're not free... you must follow the guidelines of keeping the home.

and on and on and on

"Freedom" is misunderstood by us "Americans". And as your friend pointed out, it's a cultural problem with deep roots in a number of things (among which is consumerism, prudish "morality", and decreased discernment). Any culture or society must weigh the need to exchange freedom for prosperity. Long ago, ours began trudging down the path of targeting prosperity. The more prosperity that exists, there more there is a need to maintain laws to protect the prosperity, which results in some lost freedom.

However... this does not have to mean that we also loose liberty (in this context I mean unrestricted opinion, worship, thought, education, expression, privacy, etc.). For the past several years, many western cultures (the U.S. seems to be leading the way) have begun encroaching on liberties.

I can understand and occasionally support the need for some lost freedoms in exchange for a civil and prosperous society. But I can't abide the erosion of personal liberties. The different between freedom and liberty is subtle, but vastly important.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 08:47 AM
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I don't like this at all. I am not getting pulled over, but I see others.

Freedom...

It is a word that is supposed mean something, but its former meaning is fading away. As MANY have been saying for a long time now, it is turning into 'guilty until proven innocent'. The police are NOT supposed to be allowed to pull you over unless they have a good/real reason.

Here in Connecticut, I am seeing them on foot on the on-ramps now, pulling folks over to do a seat belt check. NOT pulling them over if they don't have their seat belt on, but stopping them and THEN seeing if they do.

What do we call this in other countries? The word 'freedom' or 'free' is not used in the description.

Deny it if you want, but soon there will be check points to check your ID - WAY to similar to "Papers Please".

We were warned not to give up freedoms for security.

Oh well, our founding fathers tried and many lost their lives to give us freedom. Did they die in vain?

God help us.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 08:49 AM
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I like this post, and I think it's an important topic. America is a slave to the dollar. Capatilism has grown to a bloated and dangerous level and any suggestion that it be "reigned in" is completely squashed by the real power in this country. Corporate America. They run it all now and voting doesn't help because they own both sides. Voting with your "pocket book" doesn't help either because they'll get your money without your consent. Credit Card companies would've been illegal under the "loan shark" laws in recent history. So how can we change things?

Voting

When a politician comes along who genuinely wants do something good, he's "out spent" by the opponent to such an extent that it's not worth it, or he's victimized with "character assassination." It happens on both sides and happens at every level.

In 2000 McCain and Bush were neck and neck in the primaries, with McCain maybe a little ahead. I live in South Carolina, and when that primary happened people in my state were getting calls with questions like these:

"Would you be more or less likely to vote for McCain if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black?"

Is there any wonder McCain a) lost in the conservative state and b) co-wrote a campaign finance reform bill? This question implied a blatant lie about McCain and is representative of something the Bush campaign excelled at, taking a strength and turning it into a weakness. McCain in fact has a Daughter he adopted who is from Banglidesh. Something he should be commended for ultimately contributed to his losing the State primary and arguably the nomination. This isn't particular to the Bush campaign. It's rampant in politics at every level. I'm not saying McCain is a genuine saint out to help us all, but I use this example to illustrate how people win elections nowadays. What chance does an honest person have?

The only way to change things for the better is to swallow the pill of campaign finance reform. Take the money out of politics and you take some of the corporate power out of politics. If the only way to win a campaign is to genuinely convince the voters you're the best, and do so on a level playing field with your opponent, then at least the corporate pay-offs don't happen until AFTER someone is elected, and at least that gives us a fighting chance to elect someone honest.

The problem, of course, is we depend on out elected officials (purchased by Corporations) to change the laws. I think true campaign reform can only be done at the state and local level where the money involved in buying votes is smaller and the connection with the constituents is stronger.

Credit Cards

Credit Card companies can arbitrarily decide to raise your interest rate for no reason whatsoever, without notifying you at all. The "universal default" clause in most contracts mean if you're late on a payment on ANYTHING, it can affect your interest rate on EVERYTHING. Pay your phone bill late... Your VISA goes up. How's that for Orwellian?

There was a time when "usury laws" protected Americans from loan sharks. These laws put a cap on the amount of interest you can charge on a loan. In the 70s and 80s several states (South Dakota being the first I think) got rid of their usury laws, which was incentive for the credit card companies to come there. Shortly thereafter the laws changed again and allowed a company to "export" the interest from the State of the bank to the credit card holder regardless of location. In effect, we all are now under South Dakotan usury laws... no cap on interest.

Basically, our number one goal for maintaining our financial freedom (which is the only real freedom in a Capitalist society) is to get rid of our credit cards. A credit card is a ball and chain that makes you a slave to the Corporations that (not so secretly) rule this country.

Here is a companion site to the Frontline episode "The Secret History of the Credit Card." It's got tons of information and you can watch the whole episode online. Anyone with a credit card should watch this.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 08:58 AM
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Wow I got to say I think you are starting to see the light.
1. So you say you vote. It's to bad your vote or my vote, or anyone's vote really don't matter. The voting in this country is there to make you feel like you are in some kind of control. How do you keep a slave without chains? Well you make them think they are free. Tell them they can change things by voting. While all along you know there vote means nothing. You the Master makes the real choice.
2. So you say you can't drive home from work late at night without getting pulled over . Well our slave Masters have to keep us in line, they have to know what we are doing at all times. But they have to do in a way that dose not give away what they really are. So the get these so called peace officers to do that for them. Nice peace officers YEAH right. I have never known a slave task master to be nice. They are not there to serve and protect you or me. They are there to keep you in line. And they will kill you without even a thought. It don't matter if you are a 10 mouth old baby , or a lady going home from a ball game they WILL kill you. I got a little story for ya about what happend to my sister and I. My sister had a husband who loved to beat her. Finnally after year of this she deside to put a stop to it . So the last time he did it she ran from the house with her kids, went to a payphone and called me to come help her. So like the slave that I was I desided to call the police. I get there first . I asked where did he hit you . she said in my beasts, and tummy. I said show me. She did and sure enough there was marks all over her best and tummy, I said you will need to show the officer when he gets here. Well he got there and from the get go this cop had a bad attitude. She tells him what happend and he said where is your evidence? I told her to show him. So she pulled up her top not even showing her breasts. To show him where he had been hitting her. He says O.K and starts righting it down , then another officer showed up and they are talking away from us. Then they come up and handcuff my sister and put her in the car. I said wait one minute here what is going on. He said to me I am arresting your sister for flashing me her beasts. I said I was standing right there when she showed you where she was hit and she never showed you her breasts. Then I said well I guess I will have to call our brother who is a cop in the city across the river and have him look into your work ethics and see if this is the first time you have lied on a report. He said Oh then walked over to the other officer and talked a little bit then came back and said real nice mind ya. Miss I am really sorry about all of this if I had known I would been more sympathetic to your alls problem here tonight. He let her out , and went to go find her husbant.
( yes my brother is a cop, and yes I love him. Not all cops are bad or blind to what they really are.)
3. So you want to smoke so wacky tabacky with your wife when you get home from work huh. Well you should know that anything that helps you see the light can't be had by the slave master. This is why you can't do it. It might make you really see whats been going on. And besides YOU are SLAVE ! I don't know of to many slave who can do with there own body what they want. After all if you could do with your own body what you want. You would not be a slave now would ya? You see it's all about control. If they can't control your mind they can't keep you in slavery.
4. So ya say if they find out your smoking that wacky tabacky they will take your house and kids and put you in jail. Well my question is what makes you think its your house? Don't you make a house payment once a month? And don't you pay taxes on it every year?Well if you make house payments then the bank owns it, until you pay all of what you borrowed and then about 15% to 20% more then what you borrowed is payed off. and taxes on it every year. So when your about 60 years old you have your house payed off. but it's still not yours you still have to pay the goverment rent on it every year in the form of taxes. And then If the goverment feels like they are not making enough money off of you on your house they can now take it and sell it to someone who is willing to pay them more taxes then you do . So in a sence it was never really your house at all. It has always been there house . You are just a renter and nothing more. Oh and you are a renter that has to pay for all of the repairs to their house while your in it. So lets say you keep paying the goverment their rent every year, then you die and will the house say to your son. Guess what your son will have to sale the house to pay for the inheritance taxes. I might be wrong on this but I think it is 50% of your estate. So the goverment get half of your estate and your son get the other half. Isn't that just great. You got to give a thumbs up to the slave masters for thinking that one up. So you worked all your life to buy this house thinking well at least my son will have a home when I am gone. WRONG they can't have that. That would mean your family would get a lag up on things and they just can't have that. They need to keep you poor and dependent on their systeme. They can't have you in there top 10% That would make you a Master too. And they want to keep the Masters at a minimun. More for them that way. Isn't the American dream just wonderful?
4. So you say you can download music for free. Well this is what i got to say about that. Do you really think that the slave master wants to give you anything but grief? If they can find a way to make you pay they will. One way or the other they will make you pay either with the slave money or with your flesh. They leave that up to you on how you will pay. But be asured you will pay.
I could go on and on about this but at this point it is mute. So you are asking yourself how can I get out of this new form of slavery. Well I have been thinking about this for a very long time now. You have two options fight or flight pick one and stick with it. If you pick fight well you'll have your work cut out for ya. Most of the slaves still think they are free and will fight with the slave master to keep it the way it is.They don't want to see the lie that is. Flight is tricky. Not only do you need funds to do this you'll need a place to flight too. A place that is not like the one you just escaped from. And those places are far and few. You'll have to leave your pets behind, and most of your family, you see they most likely still believe they are free too. You can't tell anyone who you don't appsolutely trust. That may not be alot of people. When your in flight mode trust your inner voice it will never lie to you. It will save your life. Oh and I think it is a must to learn the language of the country you are going to. To best adjust your new FREE home. My hope for you is that you will truely fine your freedom.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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There was a time when "usury laws" protected Americans from loan sharks. These laws put a cap on the amount of interest you can charge on a loan. In the 70s and 80s several states (South Dakota being the first I think) got rid of their usury laws, which was incentive for the credit card companies to come there. Shortly thereafter the laws changed again and allowed a company to "export" the interest from the State of the bank to the credit card holder regardless of location. In effect, we all are now under South Dakotan usury laws... no cap on interest.


I agree with EVERYTHING you said in your post, except for the above quote


I have been extensivly involved in credit repair / reform for the last several years. One thing I have learned in terms of credit card companies, collection agencies, online loans, etc is that they are all bound by the laws of the state in which the contract was signed. For me, living in NY, the maximum interest allowed is 29.9% on anything. That includes credit card interest, car loans, personal loans etc. You could probably sue the pants off of em if they are jacking your rates.
They are allowed however tp increase your rate within the limits. IE: if you were paying say 7% interest and you missed a payment, they can and most likely would jack your interest up to the 20% range. They can also raise your minimum payments. Personally I believe ALL forms of CREDIT need to be reformed along with the election process. Do you all realize that three PRIVATE companies control your financial lives??? And its like pulling teeth to get them to correct their mistakes!!!


But anyway.. sorry for going off topic. I commend you for your point on elections and McCain.. I think you hit the nail on the head.


Derek


[edit on 3-1-2006 by DerekJR321]



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Disclaimer --> I'm probably going to say some things you won't like... but not because I disagree with you.


Wow... The big S/O has chimned in... This must be good... lol.. Your point is well taken. Of course I could quit smoking and all that, however, since this is about freedom... why should I be backed into a corner.

The reason the gas keeps soaring is also due to tax after tax being placed upon it. Just like the smokes. Almost 3 dollars a pack in taxes. Why not put a tax in taverns or McDonalds? Why just smokes? The answers obvious.

Marijuana was legal at one time. But the DuPonts changed all that. Movies were made that were blatent lies. Of course, used in excess it can be dangerous, but what isnt? Believe it or not, Im not for the legalization of it either. More of a decriminalization, instead. Pretty much, just a "leave me alone" type stance. I mean, if I cause an accident and I'm high... I need to pay. But how DARE they say I'm a criminal for it, then when I go to a ball game with my kid, I am subjected drunks every where, and ads everywhere telling my kids that drinking makes you cool and sexy to the opposite sex. They shouldnt be allowed advertisment on TV either. But again, its ok to get messed up, just with what they TELL you you can.

Also, I dont do anything to get pulled over. The proof is simple. I'm never ticketed. EVER. I'm not speeding. All my lights work. My seatbelts on. Ive seen the same cops over and over. I know they recognize me. And I'm not a jerk to them at all. But alls Im saying is that it would be nice if once....just once... one ef em said "have a nice night" or even smiled as he left. But instead I get stared down with that "next time boy....next time..." look.

My power company offers a "budget". They average out the whole years bills and tell ya how much a month you'll pay. In May, if your over or under, they difference is made up. BUT...... this is how mine would play out (according to them.) I will 279 a month. Now in the summer, my bill averages at most....hundred bucks. And thats only if its hot and the air is on. But heres where it gets good. They havent sent someone out to read my meter in over a year. They just estimate it on previous readings. From the previous owner. So they actually have no idea how much I use. This isnt an assumption either. Its what they told me on the phone. The last time someone was here to read the meter was in 2003.

Now so everyone doesnt think I'm being a baby, I understand the costs are going up. It was inevitable. But.... when the hurricane hit, it was over 3 dollars a gallon, before the day was done. They hype it up, when nothing is wrong, just to squeeze some more out of us. If they jack it up to 3.50 a gallon for a month, when it goes "back down to 2.50 a gallon" its a relief. Nevermind that last year it was a dollar a gallon less. It simply a case of "perception is reality"

Yes europe pays more for gas... alot more. But europe also has extensive public transportation. Our big cities do, but small towns dont. I live in a town of about 60k. Theres nothing. You have to drive. If there were busses, Id take em. Trains, whatever. I would use em in a flash. I traveled in Europe and never had a problem finding rides. A car is a luxury there. Its a neccesity here.

Now some of you think I am depressed about this. I'm not. I'm aggravated, but not depressed. I'm also stumped. So many people I talk to are just clueless about things. They just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, what can ya do" I've fought that for so long, but really, what can you do? Fall in line. And teach your kids to fall in line. For all the talk of the NWO taking over, I think they have allready.

I gotta admit... there are times, I wish someone would just drop a bomb on Washington when they are in session and wipe em all out. Just let us start over. I know its wrong, and please dont bother pointing that out to me. Its just a little wish my heart has at times. I mean, I have it hard now, but I wonder how hard my kids are going to have it.

20 years ago I was paying about .80 a gallon, .75 a pack, and I made $3.75 and hour. Now, the cost is 4 times that much, yet the minimum wage has only gone up 2 dollars. And noone will do anything to help that. Its wrong. Theres help out there for families, but you better be black or some type of minority to get it. Some years back, we were on hard times. Since my wife and I together made about 22k a year we didnt qualify for anything. Yet my brother-in-law, who is a mechanic tells me that people (black) come to his shop with vouchers from the city to get their cars fixed for free. I couldnt get a hundred a month for food when I was laid off, but they can get their Lexuses fixed for free. ( it was a Lexsus to). I guess we owe them that.

Oh well.... the point of all this is again, what is our freedom? Is it what Janice Joplin once sang? "Freedoms just another word, for nothing left to loose" I guess so.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 01:16 PM
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Well, for a Change I have to say I Completly Agree with you!




A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

Thomas Jefferson


And for the Original Post you get my Vote:



You have voted spliff4020 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.



The wave of the future is not the conquest of the world by a single dogmatic creed but the liberation of the diverse energies of free nations and free men.

J.F.K.



[edit on 3/1/06 by Souljah]



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by DerekJR321
I have been extensivly involved in credit repair / reform for the last several years. One thing I have learned in terms of credit card companies, collection agencies, online loans, etc is that they are all bound by the laws of the state in which the contract was signed. For me, living in NY, the maximum interest allowed is 29.9% on anything. That includes credit card interest, car loans, personal loans etc.
[edit on 3-1-2006 by DerekJR321]


Thanks for the kind words!

About the usury laws... I may be misinformed about this, but I thought for sure the laws were based on the state where the bank was located.

MARQUETTE NAT. BANK v. FIRST OF OMAHA CORP., 439 U.S. 299 (1978)



(a) As a national bank, Omaha Bank is a federal instrumentality whose interest rate for its BankAmericard program is governed by federal law, and under 85 a national bank may charge interest "on any loan" at the rate allowed by the laws of the State where the bank is "located." P. 308.


This is from a 1978 ruling, so I may be hopelessly out of date! Has there been some legislation since then?

In 1996 a card holder tried to sue Citibank because it's late fee was unlawful in California. The supreme court once again said the South Dakota law was the one that governed Citibank since that's where it's located.

SMILEY v. CITIBANK



Question Presented
Does the National Bank Act of 1864 authorize a national bank to charge late-payment fees that are lawful in the bank's home State but prohibited in the States where the cardholders reside?


Conclusion
Yes. In a unanimous opinion delivered by Justice Antonin Scalia, the Court held that the National Bank Act of 1864 authorizes such charges because a regulation adopted by the Comptroller of the Currency, which defined interest to include late-payment fees, was a reasonable interpretation of the act and entitled to deference. The Court rejected arguments that late-payment fees do not constitute interest because they do not vary based on the payment owed or the time period of delay and because they are penalties.


It's enough to make you more sympathetic to the Confederate States of America and their "States Rights" mantra! South Dakota and Delaware decide to chuck their usury laws and then all the rest of us have to be hounded by these predatory credit card companies.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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Thanks for the reply. The cases that you stated are correct. "BANKS" may usurp the state level law. In the 80's the federal government passed a law that allowed national banks (anything with N.A) or federally chartered savings banks the right to ignore the states usury law. But even then they are only allowed to go "x" amount of points above the federal reserve discount rate. Usury is very complicated and thats why I believe about 95% of all these credit companies and the likes just try to skate around them. Besides usury, there is "legal rate", "judgement rate" etc... too much to keep track of. But the bottom line is only a Federal Bank or a National Bank are ever allowed to go above usury in ANY state.

But... it wouldn't be american if it wasn't complicated all to hell now would it


Derek



posted on Jan, 4 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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Wow I got to say I think you are starting to see the light.


Yes; pessimism is always the way to the light, isn't it? If you're optimistic and happy about the way you live (no matter who you are), you must be "blind", or "asleep."

First off, I'll agree that we're not completely free. Nobody is. When you are born, you are under the rule and supervision of your parents, and right about the time when you get your first job, the transition of power is being made to the government. However, I would not agree that anything has gotten any worse. Perhaps in the past couple of years, but in the long run we've made a lot of improvements. You spoke of your credit card company raising their rates again. But who do you feel should dictate whether or not they should be allowed to raise their rates? Wouldn't that be another example of the government limiting our freedoms? The beauty of capitalism is that you can go and switch to another credit card company of it gets too bad.


Any of you who have ever worked the second or third shift can attest. I get pulled over, on an average, about once a week. Not because I'm speeding, or have a headlight out. But because its 1 am. No other reason. I've been told "You swerved a little", or they wanted to know where the dent in the front came from. All BS. I've seen the same ones do it over and over. I mean, I almost know them on a first name basis.


I can partially agree with you on this point. It's sort of like fishing for cops, isn't it? I agree that it gets pretty annoying, but you can sort of see where the cops are coming from. At 1AM in the morning, the chances of finding someone who's driving drunk must quadruple at least. The only people out driving during those times are most likely either A.) People like you who work late, or B.) teenagers coming home from partying. They see someone at 1AM driving around with a dent in their car, they probably just want to investigate. Of course, that's really no excuse for them being rude about it.


They do it to us. Have you looked up at any stop lights lately? Notice anything new up there? I am pratically recorded the whole way home. Whats next? Perhaps they could time me from one stop light to the next and determine if I broke the speed limit and mail me a ticket. (this allready happens....Anyone use an "I-Pass"?


The cameras on the stop lights, as SO already mentioned, are not recording you. They snap shots if you run the red light. And actually, those cameras aren't even distributed by the government! A co-worker of mine (she could be wrong) told me that apparently, it's a seperate company that sells these things to the government. Ever wonder why those "Phantoms" and other devices that make your plate invisible to the camera are legal? That would certainly explain it...

The cameras recording you on the freeway gets into a whole seperate issue. I'm actually not sure how I feel on this one either. I mean, if it weren't for the government, would we even have these freeways and streets that we have today? The whole driving thing has pretty much been strictly the governments business from the start. Registering your car, getting your plates, speed limits, road signs, the list is endless. Couldn't the government pretty much do what they want with their own roads? And it most likely will save lives. Isn't saving even 25 lives worth being recorded on certain portions of the freeway? Then again, it is limiting our freedoms which is seldom a good thing.



I cant download a song off the net, although dual cassette recorders were perfectly legal, now I'm faced with $300k lawsuits if I do.


People all over are downloading millions of songs as we speak, and none of them are being caught. And I can certainly see this from the perspective of the record companies, the artists, the distributors, and everyone else involved with creating a CD. When you illegally download their songs, you're driving their CD sales down yet another CD. If it were just you, it might not be so bad, but when people all over the country can get their music free and not buy it in stores?


If I want to smoke a little green stuff in bed with the wife, I can go to prison and lose my house and family, yet I am constanly bombarded with ad after ad for alcohol, which destroys more lives in a year then marijuana has since it began it's existance.


I can pretty much agree with you here. But to play devil's advocate, why legalize something that's just going hurt more people in the long run? We can't very well make alchohol illegal (We've seen what happens), so why not at least keep other harmful substances illegal in effort to save people who might otherwise be harmed by it?


Some might say "Vote!". I do, but does it matter? No. Only the electoral does. Is that all that freedom means anymore? The right to vote a meaningless vote?


I can agree with you here, but what other method do you suggest other than everyone getting one vote? Should some people get more votes than others? It's not a perfect system, but it sure is the best we have...


So lets see here.... I can't be out late, and if I am, I better have ID.


Yes you can, and what ID are you talking about? A driver's license? You always need one of those...


I can't travel freely without being harrassed.


I'll admit I haven't been driving for too long (about 2 and a half years), but I've never been pulled over. Not once, and I've been out driving at pretty much any time you can think up.


If I dont want the whole CD full of crap, I better hope its on the radio (which costs 50 a month now).


There was a day when there was no other option other than buying a whole Record, tape, or CD. Until recently, the option to download a song or two that you like was never available. I say we've become spoiled.


I can get wasted, but it better be with what the government says I can (they DO know best).


I'll agree with you here.


I can try to vote in people with whom I hope to change things, but since its like trying to drain the Atlantic with a straw, its hopeless.


Again, is there a better method?

We're losing freedoms? Tell that to the slaves of the 1800's, to the minorities of 50 years ago, or even to the women of 50 years ago. Tell that to the meat packing industry before strict regulations were put in place, or to the government that can't do anything anymore without all of us knowing about it. Tell that to so many people who were drafted by our government into World War II. Yes, restrictions have been put in place, but can you honestly tell me that you feel it breaks even with all of the improvements we've made since becoming a country?





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