Taiwan warns of China 'Threats' (Yes again)

"Taiwan's President Chen Shui-bian has warned of growing economic and military threats from China.
In his New Year address the president vowed to strengthen Taiwan's security.

In comments bound to anger China, he also suggested that the Taiwan could hold a referendum in 2007 to establish a new constitution.

This is a move that Beijing has strongly warned against, fearing that it could lead to Taiwan declaring formal independence.
China regards Taiwan as a renegade province that should be reunited with the mainland..."

news link

Seems the end game of this dispute over Taiwan will be in 2007 when beijing said in the past they will use force the second this constitution is passed (from what i remember) But china is really becoming a dangerous threat not only to Taiwan but now the U.S.!!!

[edit on 1/3/06 by FredT]

[edit on 1/3/06 by FredT]

this president is a funny guy, what he said made bush angry

The second constitution won't pass, the majority of Taiwan's parliament has just been switched to the KMT party(who wants to pass an anti-secession law and works towards eventual peaceful reunification with the motherland). President Chen is a joke... I ain't even kidding when I say this. Hear what TAIWANESE people have to say about Mr. Chen www.asiafinest.com...
Everyone agrees he is a moron, and the only people supporting him are the hardcore pro-independence Taiwanese.

Secondly, China is no danger to the United States... In fact, the US is a danger to itself and other nations. You can argue this with me, but seriously wipe off all your biasness and look it the situation again.

Remember Vietnam? According to "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn,
Quote: (at the international assemblage at Geneva)"It was agreed that the French would temporarily withdraw into the s. part of Vietnam, that the Vietminh would remain in the north, and that an election would take place in two years in a unified Vietnam to enable the Vietnamese to choose their own government. The United States moved quickly to prevent the unification and establish S. Vietnam as an American sphere."
"Diem (The American backed S. Vietnamese gov't) blocked the electiosn requested by the Vietminh, and with American money and arms his government became more and more firmly established.
"Under the Geneva Accords, the United States was permited to have 685 military advisers in southern Vietnam. Eisenhower secretly sent several thousand."


As you can see, the Northern Vietnamese REQUESTED a vote in which the VIETNAMESE people would choose their gov't, but the U.S. BLOCKED it. Amazing ain't it... Spreading Democracy eh? The Vietnam War was caused by United States who wouldnt not leave its OWN affairs out of other people's nations. (as shown AGAIN in the Iraq, when it ILLEGALLY invaded Iraq).. The U.S. is doing the SAME thing in China and Taiwan, trying to keep its spheres of influence aruond the world so that it oculd maintain itself as a world power.

China is no threat to the U.S., if you see it more clearly, the U.S. is a threat to China. The U.S. has no business in this affair... China has as much right to declare war on Taiwan as in American when the North declared war on the seceding South (The South chose to secede from the Union)


[edit on 3-1-2006 by k4rupt]

[edit on 3-1-2006 by k4rupt]

Again¬?.......he is about to be replaced by Ma in the next election, so whatever.....

Originally posted by taobo33
he is about to be replaced by Ma in the next election, so whatever.....

I really, for Taiwan's future, wish he won't be replaced by Ma.
Ma is unable to take a good decision for Taiwanese, he thinks he is chinese, so how can he understand the desire of people who are not.
A question for all the KMT followers, if you think that you are chinese,
why don't you go back to your country, china, and try to be active there to help the millions of people starving. Be a patriot, go back to your nation instead of bothering people who don't think like you..

Ok, if Taiwanese don't want to be Chinese, the first thing they should do is not to use Chinese language, including oral and characters, then abandom their chinese culture and invent their own.
Second, give back the hundres of tons of gold, billions of dollars that KMT brought to Taiwan from mainland when they lost the civil wars.

Or another choice: Taiwan declares war with China mainland, just as what U.S and Australia did to Brithish.

Originally posted by hsia

Originally posted by taobo33
he is about to be replaced by Ma in the next election, so whatever.....

I really, for Taiwan's future, wish he won't be replaced by Ma.
Ma is unable to take a good decision for Taiwanese, he thinks he is chinese, so how can he understand the desire of people who are not.
A question for all the KMT followers, if you think that you are chinese,
why don't you go back to your country, china, and try to be active there to help the millions of people starving. Be a patriot, go back to your nation instead of bothering people who don't think like you..

[edit on 16-3-2006 by google_abcd]

Ok, if Taiwanese don't want to be Chinese, the first thing they should do is not to use Chinese language, including oral and characters

It's nice, but life is not so easy... First the japanese taught japanese as official language, then KMT (using force) decided to replace it by chinese (mandarin). All this time Taiwanese languages survived ( native, hokklo, hakka) and taiwanese speak at least one of them ( i mean by taiwanese, native and "han", excluding mainlanders who are immigrants). But change it would mean another transition period, all the documentation to rewrite and so on. But, well maybe one day...
Anyway, americans or australians speak english and they are separated from english crown, I don't see why the language is a problem.

then abandom their chinese culture and invent their own.

They already have their own, including old chinese and other asian traditions (origins), dutch, spanish, japanese culture (colonies), american and european culture (immigration and world communication), chinese culture ( KMT and immigration). Taiwanese culture is a mix of it all, that's why they don't belong to china. Now, think to the culture mixed kid, Paiwan (native) / american ( new immigration:teachers), is he chinese? Not at all. Does he have a chinese culture? Yes, part of his culture is chinese.

Second, give back the hundres of tons of gold, billions of dollars that KMT brought to Taiwan from mainland when they lost the civil wars.

It's only one of the points of vue...
Then KMT will give back the lives of teachers,lawyers, intellectuals they killed as opponants to their politics? ( 228, white terror).
They will give back Taiwan ressources they used to make a fortune on Taiwanese people? (as controling the country they controled laws, taxes, country ressources, government factories...)

And now, we know that their gold is in their bank or in their factories in china or Seattle, Vancouvers... Or betlenuts fields ( just kidding)

By the way, they had the choice to go somewhere else, it doesn't give them the right to say that Taiwan is china. Maybe it's unfair but they paid to be safe...

Or another choice: Taiwan declares war with China mainland, just as what U.S and Australia did to Brithish.

And give a good reason to China to destroy them... compare the size on a map
Taiwanese just want to be free to decide what kind of future they want. And it would be easier if china didn't point missiles on Taiwan or try to scare them each time they move in a way or another. What Taiwanese think is a fact, but who the hack is china to talk about that? Communists, not a democracy, millions of people starving, millions with no education, no health care, why don't they try to fix their problem and then have a peaceful dialogue?


[edit on 17-3-2006 by hsia]

1.Taiwanese, including president Chen and all compere , only speak Chinese(mandarin) and some MinNan language(from FuJian,China) on the TV show

2 Australia and U.S are far far away from British in geography. If Taiwan are far from mainland like Singapore, do you think the mainland people will really care about it? Only 23 million people(1.5% of mainland's populatioin) and a small island without abundant resource, who wants it?
You must know about the history of U.S indenpent war. If you want to seperate Taiwan from China. Sorry, no peaceful way. Please be brave, just declare independent war just as what your boss U.S did 200 years ago.

3. The famous director Ann Lee who grew up in Taiwan, said the following words to the whole world's audiences during the interview/speech after he got the academic best director award last week.
"I am proud of being a Chinese. Actually I am not an American. I hold green card so I can work legally here. Thanks to the people in Taiwan, Hongkong and China mainland"


[edit on 17-3-2006 by google_abcd]
Mod Edit: Removed unecessary quote of the entire previous post

[edit on 2006/3/23 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by google_abcd
1.Taiwanese, including president Chen and all compere , only speak Chinese(mandarin) and some MinNan language(from FuJian,China) on the TV show

certainly because you don't have cable. And just for info hoklo is fujian, hakka is not and their are lots of native languages. Anyway, MinNan language, not the official language, but "taiwanese" (as taiwanese call it) is spoken at home, at church or temple, in official meetings, on TV ... The fact is that chinese is used only for official reasons and inter ethnics communications and because lots of taiwan languages had no writing. With the romanization of native languages ( hakka and hoklo have a older written form), education, communication and book printing are able in people original culture. It doesn't mean that there is no need for chinese, just that it's an arbitrary language, it could be japanese ( it was before) or english or any other language...

2 Australia and U.S are far far away from British in geography. If Taiwan are far from mainland like Singapore, do you think the mainland people will really care about it?

It seems they would, they want more and more land, Tibet, Taiwan ... Who knows when they will stop and what's their real goal. I think that distance is not the main point.

Only 23 million people(1.5% of mainland's populatioin) and a small island without abundant resource, who wants it?

Good question, why don't they stop and let Taiwanese decide what they want? It's just a small Island...

You must know about the history of U.S indenpent war. If you want to seperate Taiwan from China. Sorry, no peaceful way. Please be brave, just declare independent war just as what your boss U.S did 200 years ago.

Well, the only difference is that Taiwan never belonged to China. There is no "separation" because they've never be united. Before to be invaded by Japanese, It was the REPUBLIC OF TAIWAN and when japanese left the island, they never gave it to China... It's not a separation war, it's simply a war with no legal or moral claim to justify it.

3. The famous director Ann Lee who grew up in Taiwan, said the following words to the whole world's audiences during the interview/speech after he got the academic best director award last week.
"I am proud of being a Chinese. Actually I am not an American. I hold green card so I can work legally here. Thanks to the people in Taiwan, Hongkong and China mainland"

I think that he should be proud to be chinese if he is, now it doesn't mean that all Taiwanese are.
He should be ashamed to say that he use USA and the "green card", it's not a thing you have to be proud of, like mary someone for money or to escape to your conditions ( chinese and thai girls do that a lot and taiwanese wedding will be controled more and more to avoid this kind of people). But, well, intellectual prostitution is his right.

Now, I think it's good ( on a human plan) to say hello to Taiwan, Honk Hong and china. And it's pretty good for business ( and he knows that) as they speak mandarin and they will go to see his movie.
And in another way, like lot of people, he puts his benefits before his country, and as he lives in USA, thinks that saying that he still be welcome if china invade Taiwan.
Anyway his choice has nothing to do with Taiwanese will...

www.taipeitimes.com...

just another little thing:
www.taipeitimes.com...

and by the way, as it seems that Taiwanese should be "close from china" how do you explain that they don't go to study there?

www.taipeitimes.com...

Originally posted by hsia

Originally posted by google_abcd
1.Taiwanese, including president Chen and all compere , only speak Chinese(mandarin) and some MinNan language(from FuJian,China) on the TV show

certainly because you don't have cable. And just for info hoklo is fujian, hakka is not and their are lots of native languages. Anyway, MinNan language, not the official language, but "taiwanese" (as taiwanese call it) is spoken at home, at church or temple, in official meetings, on TV ... The fact is that chinese is used only for official reasons and inter ethnics communications and because lots of taiwan languages had no writing. With the romanization of native languages ( hakka and hoklo have a older written form), education, communication and book printing are able in people original culture. It doesn't mean that there is no need for chinese, just that it's an arbitrary language, it could be japanese ( it was before) or english or any other language...

No matter how hard you want to explain, you are still speaking Chinese, MinLan language.
Why do you celebrate spring festival?
Why are you still writting in traditional Chinese and speaking mandarain?
I guess you are living in U.S now. Do the U.S people think you are speaking in Chinsese or the "taiwanese"?

Also if Chinese(KMT) invaded(or re-take) Taiwan 50 years ago, that means china occupied/conquered(no matter you say) Taiwan since then. So how dare you say it doesn't belong to China?

At last let's me ask you one thing, how man people in your family, you parents/grandma/grandpa, are from mainland?

2 Australia and U.S are far far away from British in geography. If Taiwan are far from mainland like Singapore, do you think the mainland people will really care about it?

It seems they would, they want more and more land, Tibet, Taiwan ... Who knows when they will stop and what's their real goal. I think that distance is not the main point.

Only 23 million people(1.5% of mainland's populatioin) and a small island without abundant resource, who wants it?

Good question, why don't they stop and let Taiwanese decide what they want? It's just a small Island...

You must know about the history of U.S indenpent war. If you want to seperate Taiwan from China. Sorry, no peaceful way. Please be brave, just declare independent war just as what your boss U.S did 200 years ago.

Well, the only difference is that Taiwan never belonged to China. There is no "separation" because they've never be united. Before to be invaded by Japanese, It was the REPUBLIC OF TAIWAN and when japanese left the island, they never gave it to China... It's not a separation war, it's simply a war with no legal or moral claim to justify it.

3. The famous director Ann Lee who grew up in Taiwan, said the following words to the whole world's audiences during the interview/speech after he got the academic best director award last week.
"I am proud of being a Chinese. Actually I am not an American. I hold green card so I can work legally here. Thanks to the people in Taiwan, Hongkong and China mainland"

I think that he should be proud to be chinese if he is, now it doesn't mean that all Taiwanese are.
He should be ashamed to say that he use USA and the "green card", it's not a thing you have to be proud of, like mary someone for money or to escape to your conditions ( chinese and thai girls do that a lot and taiwanese wedding will be controled more and more to avoid this kind of people). But, well, intellectual prostitution is his right.

Now, I think it's good ( on a human plan) to say hello to Taiwan, Honk Hong and china. And it's pretty good for business ( and he knows that) as they speak mandarin and they will go to see his movie.
And in another way, like lot of people, he puts his benefits before his country, and as he lives in USA, thinks that saying that he still be welcome if china invade Taiwan.
Anyway his choice has nothing to do with Taiwanese will...

www.taipeitimes.com...

Haha, Ann Lee has been working in China mainland for a long time. Then he knows a lot about China and Chinese culture. That is why he is proud of being a Chinese and why he can succeed because he integrates the Chinese culture into his movies.
As for you, an ignorant and narrow-minded peroson, should come visit mainland, a place where your ancestors have been living for 5,000 years.

[edit on 20-3-2006 by google_abcd]

Originally posted by hsia
First the japanese taught japanese as official language, then KMT (using force) decided to replace it by chinese (mandarin). All this time Taiwanese languages survived ( native, hokklo, hakka) and taiwanese speak at least one of them

Oh please....

Start in 1900 and you forget the real taiwanese heritage. Do you know who Zheng Chenggong is?. You should know considering you are taiwanese. He was a chinese patriot and the first chinese on taiwan were nationalist and patriots running away from foriegn rule. This is quite stupid to refer to chinese are mandarin speakers since the use of mandarin as a common language was only after the communist took over in 1949 when they standardized education. Whilst before that local languages were used and the few educated officals had education for communication purposes.

hokklo is the more modern version of hokkien which is the real "taiwanese" people. Or ming nan ren on the mainland. While actually both are similar etc. And before you try to correct me, I am half hokkien and half hakka from my fathers side while im full blooded fujianese henan han on the other. I come from fujian in a town near putian and that makes me a mainlander. I have family in both sides of the strait one family group living in taipei and the other living in taichung. My cousin from taiwan was just over at my house for one month and went back to sdyney a month ago. Now what are your credentials on the subject.

One funny thing is you claim to be taiwanese while your whole culture is the same as your fujianese brothers. Your language is our language and you have no claim saying its different because i can speak jsut as well as you.

You taiwanese are a funny bunch. In taipei every road only has one direction every person has a purpose. Whats the ratio of police to people there?. My cousin says about one police to like 5 people in taipei. People in taipei are also so selfish. I remember my cousin telling me about how some was hit by a car and no one even stopped to help them. The car driver left some money and drove off. Thats the type of people that demoracy lives under.

They already have their own, including old chinese and other asian traditions (origins), dutch, spanish, japanese culture (colonies), american and european culture (immigration and world communication), chinese culture ( KMT and immigration).

Ok there mr "taiwanese". I use the word taiwanese vaguely to distinguish me and yourself, tell me what influence the japanese dutch spanish american and european have actually left and what do you do that makes you have any connection with them at all. Modern taiwanese culture which all the asians are fond of here does not even remotely resemble anything you just mentioned.

The dutch were trading there in taiwan almost 300 years ago when its population of mainland chinese formed 4-5% of the population while the actual native taiwanese(ones which have connection to australian aboriginals) formed the bulk of it. The dutch did not conlize it to the state where indonesia and there other colonies where at but as a jumping off point for there trade in china which was ended after the chiense drove them out. The real large immigration which took place was in 1661 when Zheng Chenggong sailed there with 1000 ships and subsequent fleets formed the bulk of the first taiwanese settlers.

The spanish?. They died out around that time when china closed its port to foriegners. Americans?. And exactly did they influence them?. Europeans?. Very vague but again what did they influence?

Then KMT will give back the lives of teachers,lawyers, intellectuals they killed as opponants to their politics? ( 228, white terror).

What does that have to do with china?

While the majority of taiwanese dont agree with you mate. Seem like your the minority of the taiwanese people and representing a small crowd with in taiwan itself

KMT wins in a landslide

KMT crushes DPP in landslide victory

If the KMT wasn't in power or didn't go to taiwan. You think that we would have had this problem?. Taiwan would have been part of china ages ago and none of this would have ever happened.

Communists, not a democracy, millions of people starving, millions with no education, no health care, why don't they try to fix their problem and then have a peaceful dialogue?

You had about 15 years of democracy and you are now telling us how to run our lives?. After 228 the taiwanese didn't complain when there making money. When they are super rich from where they started.

Millions starving?

Education is a different matter considering china has 1300 million people. We should compare it as a percentage

Fixing the problem?. Try 1979.

Originally posted by google_abcd

I guess you are living in U.S now. Do the U.S people think you are speaking in Chinsese or the "taiwanese"?

I live in Ping Tung (Taiwan or Formosa) and you? I will live in USA only if Taiwan become the 51st state.

Also if Chinese(KMT) invaded(or re-take) Taiwan 50 years ago, that means china occupied/conquered(no matter you say) Taiwan since then. So how dare you say it doesn't belong to China?

As simply as Europe didn't belong to Hitler.

At last let's me ask you one thing, how man people in your family, you parents/grandma/grandpa, are from mainland?

None of them, maybe that's why I am not chinese.

Haha, Ann Lee has been working in China mainland for a long time. Then he knows a lot about China and Chinese culture. That is why he is proud of being a Chinese and why he can succeed because he integrates the Chinese culture into his movies.

honestly, it's his problem, there are others Taiwanese more interesting, but maybe you are a gay cowboy?

As for you, an ignorant and narrow-minded peroson, should come visit mainland, a place where your ancestors have been living for 5,000 years.

Except my ancestor were not chinese and certainly not communists. As for your culture, you burned everything during your revolutions, what stays now? Mao's statues? Everything in your museums is fake... My culture is not your culture, it's only a fact.





[edit on 21-3-2006 by hsia]

This is quite stupid to refer to chinese are mandarin speakers since the use of mandarin as a common language was only after the communist took over in 1949 when they standardized education. Whilst before that local languages were used and the few educated officals had education for communication purposes.

That's what I said, Taiwanese are not chinese because they speak mandarin, like people of Quebec are not French.

hokklo is the more modern version of hokkien which is the real "taiwanese" people. Or ming nan ren on the mainland. While actually both are similar etc. And before you try to correct me, I am half hokkien and half hakka from my fathers side while im full blooded fujianese henan han on the other. I come from fujian in a town near putian and that makes me a mainlander. I have family in both sides of the strait one family group living in taipei and the other living in taichung. My cousin from taiwan was just over at my house for one month and went back to sdyney a month ago. Now what are your credentials on the subject.

Then, you should know that hokklo is fujian and hakka is not ( guang dung), read the post again.

One funny thing is you claim to be taiwanese while your whole culture is the same as your fujianese brothers. Your language is our language and you have no claim saying its different because i can speak jsut as well as you.

Did I say somewhere in any of my post " I speak Hakka or hokklo"?
Now, you really dunno who I am, what I speak but you presume...
( more than 11 differents languages in Taiwan)

You taiwanese are a funny bunch. In taipei every road only has one direction every person has a purpose. Whats the ratio of police to people there?. My cousin says about one police to like 5 people in taipei. People in taipei are also so selfish. I remember my cousin telling me about how some was hit by a car and no one even stopped to help them. The car driver left some money and drove off. Thats the type of people that demoracy lives under.

Oh, really, the neighbor of the cousin of the sister of the brother in law of my roommate told me, blah blah blah... Have YOU ever been in Taiwan?
By the way police in Taiwan, or even what your cousin eat for dinner is not the point of the post.

Ok there mr "taiwanese". I use the word taiwanese vaguely to distinguish me and yourself, tell me what influence the japanese dutch spanish american and european have actually left and what do you do that makes you have any connection with them at all. Modern taiwanese culture which all the asians are fond of here does not even remotely resemble anything you just mentioned.

Comme by yourself and see, old people speak fluently japanese, Taiwanese education was very influenced ( moral, rules at school...)
We have contacts and trades with south america countries and a lot of spanish speakers in Taiwan, we still have a lot of historical places and churches refering to spanish culture. Dutch created the first romanisation of hakka, hokklo and other native languages, some are still used today.

Then KMT will give back the lives of teachers,lawyers, intellectuals they killed as opponants to their politics? ( 228, white terror).
What does that have to do with china?

KMT is the chinese nationalist party, mainly sons of immigrants from 1949.

While the majority of taiwanese dont agree with you mate. Seem like your the minority of the taiwanese people and representing a small crowd with in taiwan itself

You should come and have a look by yourself before to speak...

You had about 15 years of democracy and you are now telling us how to run our lives?. After 228 the taiwanese didn't complain when there making money. When they are super rich from where they started.

At least we have democracy, we know what we talk about.
after 228 KMT made money, Taiwanese didn't complain because it was a martial law... ( speak, you are dead)

Millions starving?

Education is a different matter considering china has 1300 million people. We should compare it as a percentage

Well, we never said that Taiwan was perfect. But PRC is supposed to take care of everybody if they are communists ( read communist manifesto) and there should be no way to have rich and poors....
percent or not a hungry man stays a hungry man

have a look:
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/kmt.jpeg
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/yahoo.jpg
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/google.jpg

I am living in north america.

Unless your face is not yellow and your hair is not black, otherwise no matter whereever you go, all people in the world will call you "Chinese".
If you have watched the movie maybe you can do like that.

Originally posted by hsia
Originally posted by google_abcd

I guess you are living in U.S now. Do the U.S people think you are speaking in Chinsese or the "taiwanese"?

I live in Ping Tung (Taiwan or Formosa) and you? I will live in USA only if Taiwan become the 51st state.

Also if Chinese(KMT) invaded(or re-take) Taiwan 50 years ago, that means china occupied/conquered(no matter you say) Taiwan since then. So how dare you say it doesn't belong to China?

As simply as Europe didn't belong to Hitler.

At last let's me ask you one thing, how man people in your family, you parents/grandma/grandpa, are from mainland?

None of them, maybe that's why I am not chinese.

Haha, Ann Lee has been working in China mainland for a long time. Then he knows a lot about China and Chinese culture. That is why he is proud of being a Chinese and why he can succeed because he integrates the Chinese culture into his movies.

honestly, it's his problem, there are others Taiwanese more interesting, but maybe you are a gay cowboy?

As for you, an ignorant and narrow-minded peroson, should come visit mainland, a place where your ancestors have been living for 5,000 years.

Except my ancestor were not chinese and certainly not communists. As for your culture, you burned everything during your revolutions, what stays now? Mao's statues? Everything in your museums is fake... My culture is not your culture, it's only a fact.
[edit on 21-3-2006 by hsia]

Everyone can blame China of few decades ago including myself because my family was also affected during the culture revolution.
However who dares to blame current China with 10% annual GDP growth rate for the last 25 years and Chinese people having better and better life everyday?
My hometown, Canton, a province in south China, will beat Taiwan in almost every fields related to economic in the next 5 years.
Sorry man, Taiwan already missed its best chance to declare independence, the 1980's.

Btw,Mr. MaYingJiu, the current mayor of TaiPei city, the next potential president of Taiwan, just announced that he agreed with "One China, Two description" when he was visiting NewYork city yesterday

Originally posted by hsia
Then, you should know that hokklo is fujian and hakka is not ( guang dung), read the post again.

.... Yeah ??

Hokklo is the new western name for hokkien. Hokkien is what we real min nan ren overseas call ourselves. And please before you made un-educated asserations about what the fujianese people are whilst denying your connection to them, You should well know that min nan ren are not confinded to fujian but fujians neighbours aswell. The thing was the communist system of organising the provinces weren't that efficent and didn't group ethnic groups all in one place. You should know your own heritage and you should also know the origin of your people

If hakka is confinded to guangdong, why am i half?. The reason being it is not just in one provice. My town is half way in fujian in between xiamen and fuzhou. so its a fair distance inward. Conclusion is books you read dont tell you the real situtation like something you have experienced or have a first hand account.

You dont even know the basics of chinese culture while you make judgment on others cultures. Even though you live in taiwan its good to know what yoru brothers in fujian are up to. Your lack of knowledge on china is quite astounding

Did I say somewhere in any of my post " I speak Hakka or hokklo"?
Now, you really dunno who I am, what I speak but you presume...

Well the taiwanese call themselves that and all of them i know have their origins to either hakka or hokkien. Taiwanese the language is a extended form of min nan(well 99.9% the same). So it would have been safe to assume you speak one of those languages. But if you didn't i would like to know which language and what stance you take up so this disscussion is more understandable on your prespective

Pan-Green i presume?

Oh, really, the neighbor of the cousin of the sister of the brother in law of my roommate told me, blah blah blah... Have YOU ever been in Taiwan?

Well its a first hand account of the taiwanese people. You might have a scope of your neighhood you live in but you haven't met everyone in taiwan have you. And by the sweeping pre-election results not many people share the same view as yourself. Well only if you spoken to the majority of taiwanese people, which i doubt. Your experience is just as good as mine since i know the general attitude of taiwanese people. well the pan-blue side of the story

By the way police in Taiwan, or even what your cousin eat for dinner is not the point of the post.

Well this is about culture isn't it?. Also taiwanese schools are real lousy. 7am - 9pm every day?. come on, they are breeding super lazy people. maybe thats why theres so much gang violence in taiwan. Plus the standarisation of students with all boys having crew cuts and girls tieing their hair back. What is with all these regulations?

old people speak fluently japanese, Taiwanese education was very influenced ( moral, rules at school...)

How is that influcening taiwanese culture because old people speak japanese?. Taiwanese education?. you mean the super long school days. Morals are about the same. I dont see any noticable difference between east asian morals. work hard support the family.

Now school rules..... What makes them different for other school rules?. I will write out my school rules and have a comparison. though if i write them out you must also write your own rules out so i dont feel as though i am doing detention by myself. So post your school rules and i will psot mine seeing as how this is one of your main points lets see how big of a influence of japanese school rules have on taiwanese culture

We have contacts and trades with south america countries and a lot of spanish speakers in Taiwan, we still have a lot of historical places and churches refering to spanish culture. Dutch created the first romanisation of hakka, hokklo and other native languages, some are still used today.

Spanish speaking sailors in taiwan.....Is this your best argument?. Yeah so what?. China probaly has a equal amount of everything taiwan has in each seperate region. doesn't that make it concurrent development of cultures?.china has a lot of russian, koreans, what not. do they influence chinese culture?. Does that make chinese any less distinct or different because sometimes you make it some spanish type food or have some small talk with local sailors. I doubt the majority of taiwanese do get that experience. culture isn't devloped in a lifespan its a on-going devlopment. Sometimes i eat indian food. does this make me culturaly connected somehow to indian. i speak some vietnamese. I am connected to vietnamese culture?

You sound like your living in the south. maybe kaohsiung?. Because there are limited penertation of cultures say in northern beijing. The taiwanese are turning into koreans. looks of cartoons and games.

Yeah and how did the dutch influence taiwanese culture again?. Taiwans culture is influencing asia more than asia influences taiwan. Nothing ashmed of because the most famous singers and actors are taiwanese. Whats the lastest dutch or spanish cultural influence there?. The british french russian chinese also influenced world culture while not many have direct or in-direct influence. the dutch were gone ages and ages ago. almost 300 years while for about 250 of those years taiwan was under chinese control

KMT is the chinese nationalist party, mainly sons of immigrants from 1949.

Again what does that have to do with china?

You should come and have a look by yourself before to speak...

Speaks for itself

KMT wins in a landslide

KMT crushes DPP in landslide victory

Looks like your in majority since pan-blue from the pre-elections are the majority and not just a .005 like chen it is a vast majority of supports. Just wait until ma gets into power and see if taiwan what economic prosperity or do they want "independence"

At least we have democracy, we know what we talk about.
after 228 KMT made money, Taiwanese didn't complain because it was a martial law... ( speak, you are dead)

And that in comparison to australian demoracy?. And the taiwanese being chinese would have lived their life being farmers and having no wealth, giving it no military power be invaded by china already. The KMT saved you guys from a invasoin and none of this would have happened. You speak as though taiwanese as unique and your language culture is unique. but this is coming from a fujianese which speaks lives talk taiwanese as good as a taiwanese without even stepping on your shores.

martial law after 1975 was almost practically gone and similar to chinas current state albiet less free in media and economic prosperity. Yet after chiang died his son which was the more demoractic man no one complained but was a slow devlopement. Your example mirriors south korea and chinas mirriors both. all starting with authoritarian then devlopment via economic means then freeing up the polictical system. korea had its tianmmen square. little known, i have only met one person which remembered it. it was called the Gwangju massacre and has been lost since the korean democratic process started. Good examples where china is heading.

Well, we never said that Taiwan was perfect. But PRC is supposed to take care of everybody if they are communists ( read communist manifesto) and there should be no way to have rich and poors....
percent or not a hungry man stays a hungry man

...... You dont have a clue what communism is. or chinese history..

It is the ultimate state of social development. eg the last level. No one ever achieved their goal of communism as defined be karl marks as the classes society. what people like the soviet maoist era china had was socialism. YOu only have the goal to achieve that and it was proved impossible for the collaspe of the soviets and eastern block. maoist china etc. No one ever became communist be they were conied that because they practised communism. Communism died when the communes died eg mao zedong. and Hua Guofeng four moderizations etc.

And about chinese history... check out 1979. Maybe you forgot about the reforms?

.chinas polictical system is no communist now having elections on the village scale for about 5 years or so. its economy is dinfinatly not communist. Its social system is not communist. Your confusing stanlist policies with communism and chinas economic state. China has been practising capaitalism for ages now. almost 27 years of straight 9% growth(unoffical growth is higher). It has been acknowlegded as a free market economy and let it in the WTO because its a free market economy. Because its a free market economy it is pretty much the american way. all for one and all for one. the strong get free. haven't you been tuned into the FDI in china?. a communism country attracting this sort of money

Dont get confused by the five years plans they dont mean anything but are guidelines for achievement.





[edit on 22-3-2006 by chinawhite]

let's talk about your system:

www.smh.com.au...

uygurletter.blogspot.com...

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.buzzle.com...

about a country of freedom:

en.wikipedia.org...

www.religioustolerance.org...

www.digitalmediaasia.com...

www.humanrights.cn...

www.uygur.org...

take your time to read, you will learn a lotta stuffs...

hrw.org...