Holocaust denier thread

Well thats is something i have wonderd myself, the people who deny the holocaust, why? Anti-semitism? White supremists? And honestly how much can they gain from denying it? They straight out get labeld as nuts and some have been arrested and deported from certain countries.
Why are they denying it? Everyone has a reason.

Originally posted by wang
Well thats is something i have wonderd myself, the people who deny the holocaust, why? Anti-semitism? White supremists? And honestly how much can they gain from denying it? They straight out get labeld as nuts and some have been arrested and deported from certain countries.
Why are they denying it? Everyone has a reason.

Excellent questions, wang.
From the research I have done, it is because of their ideological beliefs.
Virtually all holocaust deniers have a number of things in common: they are either antisemitic, white power idealists, disguise their antisemitism under anti-Jew, anti-Israel, anti-Zionists claims, have not once sought to question the numbers for other world event genocides, but single out but one: the Holocaust, they proliferate anti-Semitic conspiracy theories [Israel was behind 9/11, etc], etc., etc.....

This article [linked below] may be of interest?
It mentions in the matter of proofs for the Holocaust:

We prove the Holocaust through a convergence of data that include: Written documents-letters, memos, blueprints of the camps, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs and confessions. Eyewitness testimony accounts from survivors, members of the Jewish sonderkomandos who took bodies out of the gas chambers, SS guards, commandants, local townspeople and high-ranking nazi officials. We have many letters from German soldiers stationed on the Russian front to their families in, which they describe the mass shooting of Jews. Photographs-including official military and press photographs, civilian photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs, German and allied film footage and photographs taken by the German military. The camps themselves; And inferential evidence-population demographic, reconstructed from pre-World War II. For example, if six million were not killed, what happened to all these people?

Then concerning holocaust denial and deniers, the article goes on to mention:

For such reasons, denial of the Holocaust is much like the denial of something in science which has been confirmed by multiple lines of independent evidence, such as evolution. Just as creationism, which is presented as opposition to evolution, is nothing more than a psuedoscience, so, too, is Holocaust denial nothing more than pseudohistory.

--snip--

The reasons why people engage in holocaust denial are varied, but among the Holocaust deniers a very common theme is "the Jews" - it doesn't matter what the actual content is, so long as something negative is being said about Jews. Their anti-semitic orientation is quite plain, and so the motive of anti-semitism cannot be ignored when examining their revisionist works.

--snip--

Shermer and Grobman through this book reveal that Holocaust Denial is not skepticism, and that the revisionists are not being genuinely skeptical. Honest skepticism involves an inquisitive attitude which, as far as is humanly possible, is not marred by political or ethnic prejudices. Skepticism also involves a willingness to follow the evidence wherever it leads, rather than ignoring that which does not fit preconceived desires.

Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why do they Say it?





seekerof

[edit on 7-1-2006 by Seekerof]

How can anyone in their right mind deny the holocaust happened?

I think its circumvent the nonsense!

I think its a contrived issue, tho.

A distraction.

www.ibmandtheholocaust.com... TRY READING IT...
As for a lack of resources on behalf of SHEAF...it was known in ´41 that the camps existed, with deatiled photos showing smoke bellowing from the chimneys...the planning for the full scale invasion of europe didnt start until mid march ´43..and the allies held air supremecy from 1941 wasting millions of tonnes of bombs levelling cities like Dresden, with thousand bomber raids lasting for more than 24 hours...so it wasnt a lack of supplies.

[edit on 11-1-2006 by andy1972]

Personally, I don't think anyone should be thrown in jail for denying the holocaust happened. It only gives them more stage-time. Let the courts and media rightly ignore them. Relegate them to the outer limits of the internet. Their voice will fade as smoke fades.

Agree ECK, thats where i find their is a conspiracy in this, people who spread other crazy theories like reptillian stuff etc. Aint thrown in to jail for what they say. So why do these nuts get the attention from the government/media?
If they were just outcasted no one would listen.

Man, I heardat! In my daily news/analysis sweep I run across articles that I wouldn't give the time of day. The Reptilian stuff is exactly what I'm talkin about! There's so much CRAP to sift through and get distracted by!

If big media ignored holocaust deniers the way they ignore the reality of say, the Illuminati, about 342 people in America would know about it. And that's as far as it would get.

Ive known a few holocaust deniers. They were Neo Nazis. Their reasons for denying the holocaust puzzled me. After all, Id think they would be celebrating the death of 6 million "sub-humans. But no, surprisingly, its propganda value for their cause really.

Denying the Holocaust gives them some sort of high moral ground. They deny it because they wish to portray in their mind not only the "civility" of the Nazis, but also to paint the Jews as liars who made up the holocaust so they could milk pity from people and get away with their whole world domination scheme or whatever it is the Jews are supposedly up to.

They also wish to strip the Jews of the victim title to make it look like they did not suffer and thus should not have israel, ect ect ect.

I imagine the radical Muslim motives are the same.

The whole point of Holocaust denial is really about propoganda to make Jews look less like victims and more like lying manipulators. Both the Nazis and the Muslim Fundie nuts share a common hatred and desire to destroy Jews.

I myself cannot deny the Holocaust. My great uncle was part of D-Day. His unit eventually marched on and liberated Bergen Belsen. I know he has hated germans since. And I remeber him telling me about the piles and rows of decimated, shriveled, skeletal bodies that could be smelled for miles.

There are simply too many Jews and non jews who give consistant accounts of the whole thing to deny it.

Debate the numbers at your leisure. It happened, and was outright murder committed by subhuman scum against people who were supposedly subhuman. Whether it was 1 million or 6, it was still murder of the lowest form.

>>'Ive known a few holocaust deniers. They were Neo Nazis. Their reasons for denying the holocaust puzzled me.'

they were inviting you to join their cult, or their particular sect of the holocaust denier cult.

the question of why the allied bombing was so nasty is answered simply, if you lived in london as my mother did, from 1927 (birth) till 1947. they did it first. but we did it better. my father was a navigator on the bombers that dropped bombs on those german cities. he flew in a huge flying target, and did his duty. maybe i'm biased. civilians were used at targets by the germans. if you wanted to win that war you had to be AT LEAST as bad as they were. or learn to speak german.

the question of how many died in the camps is pretty well documented, as well as why they did it. there were people (nazi's) who needed other people (jews, homosexuals, gypsies, etc) to blame for all of their troubles, and so they looked so smart and right for what they did. they also used these people to show how low others are and how great they were. it convinced many people, so as a tactic it worked pretty well, really. any politician has talking points which are discussed in advance. these provide them a common theme, to propogandise people, to get them to join them. 'the jews are to blame for this', so let's kill them all. the proof is in their speeches, if not in their writings. i haven't read mein kempf, i'm pretty sure it is in there thogh. maybe i'm wrong on that.

conversely, there are many jewish people who use the holocaust to take suspicion off of their own activities, by labelling anyone who doesn't agree with them as anti-semite. a case of spying has been uncovered in the white house, and until larry franklin was convicted, all they needed to do to deflect suspicion was to yell 'anti-semite'. i consider this to be worse than the white supremacists, or at least as bad. they are using a tragic event against their own people to cover up suspicion of their mis-deeds. in the near future the u.s. is going to have to face the internal spying and israeli dis-information in the lead-up to the iraq war, that appears to have come from israel.

my jewish friends NEVER mention the holocaust to me, and i don't bring it up.

i got stuck in a bar waiting for a friend, with 2 white supremacists sitting beside me getting drunk and loud and really obnoxious. 'kill the jews, kill all the n____, blag blah blah.' i held my tongue till right before i got up. i turned to the tall guy and said, 'you have a right to believe anything you want. you choose to believe that whites are better than others, and that jews and blacks need to be exterminated. the unfortunate thing is, that the reason you believe this to be true can be traced back to a single mistake you made when you were young and impressionable, and you went to jail for it. you needed protection from a group and the whites were the only game in town. if not for that, you could have been normal.'

then i walked out.

there are a lot of people who need followers. you can be a follower if you want, but i believe it is better to be an independant thinker. talk, i'll listen. maybe i won't make up my mind, but i'll try and remember what you said. if you want me to believe that others are worse than me, well, i know a lot of different people and the only way we are all going to survive is to get along and listen. if the message is 'do no harm', i'm listening. if the message is to harm someone else, they'd better have done something to me first, like come into my home and threatened me or my family. otherwise, we can work it out.

rick