The Ties that Bind: Abramoff & Atta, page 1

deltaboy said:
If we can't find many of the criminals back at home that are wanted by the FBI that has been hiding for years or decades in America with millions of people along with cameras and other methods, what makes you think we can get Osama in just only a few days after the 9/11? Look at the geography of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Not to mention hostile population that wont cooperate base on religion and culture. Also its politics about sending special forces into Pakistan if they had any intel on Osama's whereabouts.

I don't see this as a fair analogy since if it was the military going door-to-door (or cave to cave) in Utah for example (roughly comparitive size to Pakistan), they'd find whatever criminal they wanted. You're comparing one apple to a barrel of oranges.

You know well that the Pakistan intelligence service has a long relationship with the US, so I don't buy your second point at all. Suddenly we're just dumb and have no intel?

deltaboy said:
Osama was considered an ally by the CIA, of course many dont believe he represents the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan. But many people felt they can use the Arabs for support. For example, Zawahiri who is second in command of Al Qaida was in California to raise support for the Mujahadeen. But with the Soviet-Afghan war over, you have people who have nothing else to do except go to Jihad against America since they felt they can do the same thing like they did against the Soviet Union which was a superpower.

I thought I'd provide a link to corroborate your claim, because California is where I live. What I don't understand is how it connects to the question of Osama. You say he was considered an ally, but I think the word you are looking for is, "asset" since the CIA does not forge "alliances" with foreign powers. He remains an asset dead or alive, I might add. So long as his body is not found.

www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2001/10/11/MN119457.DTL

Traveling with a stolen passport supplied by the local terrorists and using a fake name, al-Zawahiri, who has called on Muslims to kill "Americans wherever they are," visited mosques in Santa Clara, Stockton and Sacramento as part of a coast-to-coast fund-raising mission, according to these accounts.

Al-Zawahiri may have raised as much as $500,000 in America, according to a Silicon Valley acquaintance of one of the terrorists. Most of it was donated by U.S. Muslims who were told the money would aid refugees of the Afghan- Soviet war of the 1980s, said this man, who asked not to be identified because of personal safety concerns.

So Al-Zawahiri came here and lied to some honest California muslims, took 500k from them. What's your point and how does it relate to Osama?

smallpeeps said:
I am constantly baffled that OBL succeeds as a bogeyman. To me, he's the ultimate straw man, even LOOKS like a bag of straw.

deltaboy said:
He is just trying to keep morale up for his followers. Looks can be deceiving, if you meet him, he probably just get his AK-74 submachine gun on you.

What? Osama is trying to keep morale up with his followers? I can't see how a reasonable person would believe this. Anyone who flies a plane into the Pentagon is going to gain some support from that percentage of muslims who percieves the US as conqueror-crusadists in the mid-east. I would not, however, label them his 'followers'.

How do you think these so-called followers see Osama's recent attempt at negotiated truce? I suppose most US hawks will read this as "We've got 'em on the ropes!". I don't see the bad-guy part of the GWOT being on the ropes, despite "Osama's" recent tape. I think lots of little terrorists are being created by our screw ups. Heck, even you've got to admit that the US actions create more US-haters, right? How can you answer otherwise?

To me, Osama is clearly a construct. He was designed to be the bad guy, clearly designed to be hidden in a foreign land, in a cave. I think Americans will be smart enough to see the next 9/11 as not being Osama-induced.

Anyway, back to the original topic of Atta and Abramoff:

SunCruz Casinos turns over documents in terrorist probe

TAMPA, Fla. - SunCruz Casinos has turned over photographs and other documents to FBI investigators after employees said they recognized some of the men suspected in the terrorist attacks as customers.
Michael Hlavsa, chairman of the gambling cruise company, said Wednesday two or three men linked to the Sept. 11 hijackings may have been customers on a ship that sailed from Madeira Beach on Florida's gulf coast.
9/26/01 By VICKIE CHACHERE Associated Press Writer and Florida Times-Union

I think it's interesting that SunCruz employees recognized Atta pretty quickly. Quick enough to get docs handed over within 15 days of 9/11. Almost like the PTB wanted to see what evidence was there, but not really use it.

Isn't it interesting A: How poorly the GWOT is conducted (creating more bad guys), and B: how much evidence about the GWOT origins remains concealed from the American people?

[edit on 25-1-2006 by smallpeeps]