Originally posted by Browno
About the Mig 29s, The Luftwaffe should have exchanged them with the US for F-15s becouse the US have a squadron who fly stolen Russian planes, Not
against Germany using Mig 29s whatsoever but i just thought about this becouse of NATO regulations
Although im more into western stuff, I quite admire the Mig 29s. Wern't they revamped for NATO use?
Is there such thing as a 'Joyrider Squadron'?
Two things to think about: Did the US military WANT the MiGs? And did the Luftwaffe WANT F15? Both a No-No. The german MiG-29 were VERY baseline
version, sub-capable to even remotely more modern russian versions. And the F15 wouldnt have fit the Luftwaffe as they dont offer the type of
multirole capability Germany already had decided to go for with the Typhoon (the MiG-29 were re-issued in 1995 in to service).
The 24 MiGs from the former DDR JagdGeschwader 3 underwent extensive modifications and modernizations and were made STANAG-compliable where possible
and/or reasonable. Still, they were inherently Russian aircraft and had a decidedly different tech base they were founded upon. Funnily enough, many
of the improvements MAPO MiG offered for modernization of existing MiG-29 since then were developed on the basis of those NATO experiences with the
The JagdGeschwader 73 where the remaining MiGs then served their time was not a particular "joyrider" squadron, they were first and foremost a part
of the national defense network. But of course they were constantly requested for cross-training and NATO wargames. Germany has a very limited
Luftwaffe budget, and I believe only the USA has the luxury of operating whole "testing and evaluation" squadrons anyway -> the concept of a
dedicated "joyrider" squadron is not possible in Germany.
About the Mil 24 Hind. I quite admire the Hind choppers becouse they are attack choppers with troop carrying capability, I wish NATO would have
somthing like that.
Doesnt the Russian SWAT teams use them?
Usually the Hind is seen as troop carrier with supporting weaponry. Anyway, they didnt quite fit into the "Heeresstruktur" (German Army structure),
and the older ones were in a very bad shape.
The thing is: theoretically the "armed transport" concept looks nice, but in reality it is flawed. Every touchdown of the helicopter would make it a
sitting duck, rendering all those heavy weaponry useless (though the armour still was a benefit). So either it was an oversized, comparably
unmaneuverable attack/fire support helicopter, or a needlessly tricked-out transport/carrier.
For tactical flexibility it is much more effective to have Y number of carrier helicopters (possibly with armour and door gunners), and accompanying
those X number of lighter and faster, flexible support/attack helicopters (this can be seen with the Cobra/Blackhawk pairing, or in the German Army
with the Tiger/NH90 couple).
I also do not believe that russian SWAT
uses the Mi-24. Maybe the GRU Speznas (a military unit) or Alfa and Vympel (the FSB units) - but not
the regular police SWATs. Anyway I´d rather guess that those units can ASK the military to provide transport and air cover with their Mi24s, but they
are not an inherent part of the respective units.
[edit on 3/1/2006 by Lonestar24]