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"Ancient Ones" Fact or Fiction

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posted on Jan, 1 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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I would like to know if any members have ever heard of a race of beings called the " Ancient Ones ". They supposedly existed before man and were erased from the face of the Earth after an intentional catastrophic event took place. I am interested in hearing any information you may have on this subject. Thanks again fellow members and have a happy New Year.




posted on Jan, 1 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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Go look up a history book and you'll find out whether its fact or fiction.

Whether there's some truth in the fiction is a completely different matter... Personally I havent found any credible evidence of ancient races like Atlanteans, giants or space lemurs.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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Perhaps our descendants? Self Preservation being what it is, perhaps the few survivors of some future events made their way home to a place long ago. Just a thought.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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there's nothing wrong with believing in a society that was as equal or more advanced in knowledge then we are today while still mainting the level of technology and culture we see in the past.

Personally, I do believe atlantis existed. I don't believe however the description's most people give it is true tho. I don't think it was some modern technological civilization rivaling our own. We don't need all this fancy technology to live modern live's. Just as the people who built the megaliths didn't need crane's to build what they built that we have trouble even atempting to build. They knew something back then that we lost in the course of history.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 05:49 PM
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Agreed.

A lot of times people think of ancient civilizations through the lens of how we live today. This most likely isnt the case. Perhaps these civilizations lived in a relatively small area and not so spread out like how the earth is populated today. In that case, it wouldnt be a leap of faith to say that if a major catastrophic event happened to that civilzation, all of their traces would vanish, add thousands of years on top of that and well, its going to be pretty hard to find proof.


Cheers!!



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 05:56 PM
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Ancient Ones eh? Well if their anything like the Old Ones they probly not real



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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Vegemite,

Think about it. Out of the past 5000 yrs of recorded history, just this last 200 or so has really made any technological advancment's leading to computer's, car's, tv, large scale manufacturing.

Back during a time when the human population was much smaller then it is now, was all the thing's we have now really needed? Not really. All we have left of any knowledge they had are odd artifact's. Thing's you don't learn about in school. Such as the Baghdad battery, or how the ark of the covenent is basicly a really big capacitor, vedic math (something I'm trying to learn now) etc... We had pretty advanced knowledge back then for being just "hunter/gatherers" like history class teach's.

Imagine most of this was before the flood, without the imagery put into our head's of atlantis being this all mighty high tech modern marvel world. Imagine it like we see ancient egypt, greece, rome, mayan's ... that kind of architecture. Bam, here come's the flood. Washing away all the coastal port's that were used for trade around the world. And to this day we keep finding sunken cities all around the world ... But hey, I'm not an archeologist or an engineer so what do I know right?

We can just keep going with what we're told ... stone and copper tool's. Rope's and log's. But we'll just keep quiet about how even our modern technology has trouble even putting up even a small pyramid, and continue living our quiet peacful live's till we destroy ourselve's once again rather then learning what happened the first time and howto prevent it.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Yeah no doubt, but I doubt that there was an ancient race of beings before man. Perhaps an Ancient Race of Men before the ice age. But I doubt the existence of an ancient race of aliens that built cities beneath the ice of antartica and somehow enginered a slave race called the Shoggoths



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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Ahh, ok I get ur post now


No, I was talking about just regular people like u and me. The only problem with the idea is we have people corupting it trying to earn a quick buck claiming to have "seen" it in a vision and "know" everything there is about atlantis.

As for ancient race of alien's on earth... there's no evidence. Any and all ancient structure's show human's were behind it, even the megalithic structure's... even if we can't reproduce them with today's technology.

Myth's come from a forgotten history. Almost every civilization on earth has some story of atlantis told in nearly similar ways with different name's for the city. They all agree that a terrible disaster befell the city. We don't really have as much as a full understanding of pre ice age life as we think we do. Pre ice age was supposed to be the stone age, yet alot of these megalithic site's are from the stone age, wierd if u ask me


Personally, I think human's developed a more natural technology, way of doing thing's that seem's like magic by our standard's because we can't even figure out how they did some of the thing's they did without modern technology despite us having trouble doing them.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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The only "Ancient Ones" that come mind and sound vaguely similiar to what was describe in the original post is those "ancient ones" found in the Mayfair Witches series of books by Anne Rice.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 07:26 PM
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What he is getting at sounds an awful lot like H.P. Lovecrafts writings.

The shoggoth were a race of giant tar like aemobae (sp?).

Is the Cthulhu mythos what you are asking about?



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:21 AM
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“A single projectile, charged with all the power of the universe; an incandescent column of smoke and fire as bright as 10,000 suns [from] a shaft fatal as the rod of death.

“Endowed with the force of thousand-eyed Indra’s thunder: It was destructive to all living creatures....Hostile warriors fell to the earth like trees burnt down in a raging fire....Elephants...fell to earth uttering fierce cries...burnt by the energy of that weapon.

“A substance like fire has sprung into existence...blistering hills, rivers and trees. All...are being reduced to ashes....You cruel and evil ones, drunk with pride, through that iron bolt you shall become exterminators of your race.”

~The Mahabharata, Ancient Hindu poem


Is these the "Ancient Ones" you're thinking about?



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by xEphon
In that case, it wouldnt be a leap of faith to say that if a major catastrophic event happened to that civilzation, all of their traces would vanish, add thousands of years on top of that and well, its going to be pretty hard to find proof.


Cheers!!

Here's the scientific evidence supporting the catastrophe.

www.knowledge.co.uk...

As for the proof being hard to find. Finding it is easy, doing the necessary research to confirm that it was built by some ancient, advanced group, is what is not as simple. But, if anyone does an indepth study of the Giza pyramid, it is hard to imagine it being designed and built by anyone but advanced builders. It is still far from being decisively explained how, even today, using all our best technology and unlimited time and funds, we could replicate all of its challenging details.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by necromancer9
I would like to know if any members have ever heard of a race of beings called the " Ancient Ones ". They supposedly existed before man and were erased from the face of the Earth after an intentional catastrophic event took place.

As someone said, the source for this seems to be H. P. Lovecraft (who made his "ancient ones" up... there's no other source for this term/information as far as I can tell.)

There's also a problem of the definition of "existed before man."

Anthropologists/paleontologists/archaeologists define man as any creature in the hominid lineage... and that goes back to around 5 million BC. We have fossils of what existed then and before then... and they don't match any of the Lovecraftian-type fictions (civilizations, technology, etc, etc.)



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by necromancer9
I would like to know if any members have ever heard of a race of beings called the " Ancient Ones ". They supposedly existed before man and were erased from the face of the Earth after an intentional catastrophic event took place.

As someone said, the source for this seems to be H. P. Lovecraft (who made his "ancient ones" up... there's no other source for this term/information as far as I can tell.)

There's also a problem of the definition of "existed before man."

Anthropologists/paleontologists/archaeologists define man as any creature in the hominid lineage... and that goes back to around 5 million BC. We have fossils of what existed then and before then... and they don't match any of the Lovecraftian-type fictions (civilizations, technology, etc, etc.)

Though the exact terminology 'ancient ones' originated from Lovecraft, which I will accept as correct, considering my admiration of the quality of your past posts, my interpretation of the question posed here could include the tales of Atlantis, and the Vedic tales of ancient civilizations, etc.
I agree 'existed before man' is a problematic term. I believe in ancient advanced peoples, myself, and have read a great number of supporting texts. My post above, regarding the Giza Pyramid, is what I find to be the best single such clue. Anything you could share that would assist my search for another possible origin of it would be appreciated, Byrd.
thanks



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 10:32 AM
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Well just a thought, everyone associates anceint civilizations as tens of thousands of years old. Could not other intelligent offsprring of reptiles, incents, fishs and birds existed befor mamals were even above the size of a mouse?
Just a basic theory, but could these intelligent creatures who had millions of years to evolve still exist today? All of the above creatures had millions of more years to evolve than us mammals have, yet we think of them as primitive creatures.
As to say could there not be intelligent life in the dark depths of the ocean? Or even under the crusts of the earth? Life has shown that it can exist and flourish in the most extreme enviroments.

The point to this ramble is that i think people who are already thinking about a civilization older than we know existed. Who says it was human?



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:44 PM
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Thanks for your kind words. I'll answer to the best of my research and knowledge.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Originally posted by xEphon
In that case, it wouldnt be a leap of faith to say that if a major catastrophic event happened to that civilzation, all of their traces would vanish, add thousands of years on top of that and well, its going to be pretty hard to find proof.

Let me address this one and say that in fact, it would NOT be hard to find proof.

Stop for a minute and look at what's around you. I'm here in my house, and around me are electronics (made of fairly indestructable plastics, wood, stone, etc, etc. My house isn't just something in space and time... there are roads connected to it, sewer and water lines, electrical lines, roads, sidewalks, and other infrastructure.

Let's say that the Vogons came and removed all trace of my house.

But the soil texture from where the water pipes had been would be different (topsoil would fall into the hole... in fact, this is one way archaeologists tell where things (like postholes) have been.) Ground penetrating radar would show that the soil where my house had been was compressed in an unusual way.

At the edges of the "total vaporization" zone, we would start to see roads and other things (you can see ancient roads from satellites). And then there's the mines and farms needed to produce raw materials for plastics, for food, for ceramics, and a thousand other things. Even if we say that this advanced civilization only used plants and they somehow shaped plants into everything they needed (including plastic and electronic components) there would be traces of those farms and that harvesting.

The more technology you have, the more resource support you need. If you're just strolling around, not wearing clothes and eating carrion and sleeping in whatever rock ledge you find, you probably won't leave any traces (other than the occasional skeleton.) But the minute you start using technology (chipping out a flint hammer, dressing skins, constructing brush huts), you start changing the landscape. Hundreds, thousands, and millions of years later we can see these subtle traces.


Here's the scientific evidence supporting the catastrophe.

www.knowledge.co.uk...


Let me just briefly note that it appears the originator of this theory did the unforgivable (for a scholar) -- relied on reports they read about (the mastadon data is wrong) and didn't actually go to the first-hand accounts and see the data for themselves.



But, if anyone does an indepth study of the Giza pyramid, it is hard to imagine it being designed and built by anyone but advanced builders.

The Giza Pyramid complex (there are nine of them plus a lot of associated buildings) is one of THE most researched sites of the ancient world. Digs (licensed ones) go on constantly and I think at any given time you can find any number of researchers (licensed and unlicensed) out there poking around and measuring.

Google Scholar shows nearly 700 papers on it, and I know there's a lot more: scholar.google.com...

(of interest here is a summary of a technical paper (and it's good science... nobody would dispute it) saying that the Sphynx seems to have been built before the pyramid (so Kufu may have placed the pyramid at that location BECAUSE of the Sphynx) : www.ingentaconnect.com... )


It is still far from being decisively explained how, even today, using all our best technology and unlimited time and funds, we could replicate all of its challenging details.


Actually, we can replicate and do better. The stonework was very nice, but it's not beyond belief for that day and time:
guardians.net...
www.culturefocus.com...

Now, it might have been a marvelous feat if the Egyptians were living in skin tents or in brush huts (like, say, the traditional Zulu lifestyle) and ranching cattle and wandering around as semi-nomads.

But they weren't -- and that's the thing that all the "pyramids built by unknown civilization" people don't bother to show you. In fact, the Egyptians of centuries BEFORE that time were doing work that was far more complicated.

Take a look at the columns for the Egyptian temple shown in this photo (which is about as old as the estimated age of the pyramids at Giza) : www.culturefocus.com...

It's far more difficult to stack bricks into a tall column than it is into a pyramid (try it for yourself with wooden blocks!) And thintk of all the engineering it took to lift the stone lintels to the tops of those columns (without knocking anything down.) How is hauling bricks up a ramp to a pyramid harder than that?

Now... here's the thing that the "aliens built it" will never show you -- the monuments and pyramids that the Egyptians were building BEFORE the Great Pyramid was built (take a look at the beautiful stonework and how smooth the columns are and how nicely the stones join The temples all had stone roofs overhead; again, not as easy to lift large stones to the ceiling as it is to shove a block up a ramp:
www.touregypt.net...
www.touregypt.net...

The pharoah of this temple lived about 120 years before the Great Pyramid was built -- around 2600 BC.


You might find interesting the digs at Hierkanopolis (the name of this city is wonderful -- it translates to "City of the Hawk" and is one of the oldest Egyptian cities, dating back to 3100 BC or thereabouts) :
www.archaeology.org...


Here's the "believed to be correct" timeline for pyramids and so forth:
www.scaruffi.com...



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 06:28 PM
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I am grateful for your input and links, which I did visit. As for the mastodon information, I am sorry to hear that, since the two scientists who researched and wrote, "Cataclysm", Allen and Delair, were quite thorough in their evidence gathering, testing, and interpreting. They are of course only theorizing what their findings mean, but the data compiled is worth having a look at. I tend to agree with their reconstruction of events, though some might not.
The pyramid sites your links led were interesting, but not convincing to me. I have read literally thousands of pages on just the Great Pyramid, and granted, the accepted explanation is not impossible, but it is not complete either. My personal conclusion is that the 4th dynasty is very unlikely to have had the technology, logistical organization, and knowledge that was needed to incorporate all the precise and advanced details present. The one thing I have recently learned I was incorrect about was the weight of the granite blocks atop the king's chamber. I have seen most estimates are between 50 and 80 tons maximum, which is far less than I previously had thought.



posted on Jan, 4 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I am grateful for your input and links, which I did visit. As for the mastodon information, I am sorry to hear that, since the two scientists who researched and wrote, "Cataclysm", Allen and Delair, were quite thorough in their evidence gathering, testing, and interpreting.

I don't think they're scientists. I didn't find a bio for them and I didn't find journal publications from them, which makes me think that they are simply journalists of some sort.

There's a rather unkind review (the first one) on Amazon that (if you read around the snarkiness) really covers the problems and mentions the mammoths in specific. Because I read some of the original papers and because I did check on the status of these mammoths through several other means, that was the big thing that grabbed me on the web page you cited: www.amazon.com...=pd_kar/103-8437411-3142226?n=283155

Now, I have only read reviews of their works and not the works themselves, but the reviews have been by supporters and I believe they are honest in what they report. And what they are reporting is fact-collecting that actually collected urban legends (the "flash-frozen mammoths"... that WAS the rumor when the first ones were discovered, yes, but that got corrected within a few months of the discovery.)



My personal conclusion is that the 4th dynasty is very unlikely to have had the technology, logistical organization, and knowledge that was needed to incorporate all the precise and advanced details present.

Could you list these details that you feel are just impossible for the 4th dynasty (and third and so forth?)

I'm going to gloss over the bits about the logistical organization other than to say that the Egyptians had a different social structure than we do and religion, and if God (the Pharoah) told everyone to stop working the fields and start building a road, they really would obey the Divine One. (there's more to it than that.) And without organization and logistics, how do you explain the thousands of monuments and statues and so on and so forth -- projects that are simply too large to be the work of one inspired person?


The one thing I have recently learned I was incorrect about was the weight of the granite blocks atop the king's chamber. I have seen most estimates are between 50 and 80 tons maximum, which is far less than I previously had thought.

50 to 80 tons is the figure I've seen most:
guardians.net...

And that's not terribly staggering for the Egyptians. They were moving stones that weighed four times that much for the temples at the Valley of the Kings in Abydos, where Djoser (about 2630) was buried:
www.ancient-mysteries.com...

(here's some of these giant stones of the temple: www.ancient-mysteries.com... )

There's hundreds of these temples (and don't forget the huge monumental statues as well) that used stone blocks weighing upward of 50 tons... they seemed to have as little trouble moving them as we do.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 03:43 PM
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Maybe I am wrong, and the Giza pyramid was built by the 4th dynasty as generally accepted. I have too many unanswered questions and my view is that the pharoahs of that era likely restored, repaired, and cleaned up the complex, and added to it. I feel that the sphinx, mortuary temple, and great pyramid, at least, are far older. Repair work on the sphinx allegedly dates to the time of Khafre, which, if true, suggests it was already old then. There are many details incorporated in the great pyramid which I have yet to find an explanation for.
But.... I haven't been to Giza, and until I can confirm that what I have read is true, it is all hearsay.
I may be wrong, but I can't see how or why the challenging aspects of the pyramid, such as the differing tier heights, block widths, and precision to square, etc. were achieved by 4th dynasty means. Just cuz I don't see it, though, doesn't mean that they couldn't do it, of course.



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