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Originally posted by spamandham
Ok, as long as we're using the same language, there certainly is empirical evidence for the nonexistence of gods.
1. We know that the concept of gods evolved out of using astronomy to determine the seasons. We can trace that history from its primitive origins all the way to modern monotheism.
2. Those who claim gods exist can not provide anything from which to substantiate that claim - meaning they had no rational basis for making the claim in the first place.
3. The word "god" is almost universally undefined.
Originally posted by spamandham
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
My use of the word "know" involved empirical evidence.
Ok, as long as we're using the same language, there certainly is empirical evidence for the nonexistence of gods.
1. We know that the concept of gods evolved out of using astronomy to determine the seasons. We can trace that history from its primitive origins all the way to modern monotheism.
2. Those who claim gods exist can not provide anything from which to substantiate that claim - meaning they had no rational basis for making the claim in the first place.
3. The word "god" is almost universally undefined.
Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
Atheism only seems to arise in the context of authoritarian, dogmatic religions... Atheism arises as a kind of antibody or natural rebellion against this perversion. In that, atheists serve a potentially useful function. Yet they suffer from a tendency to broaden their antagonism to include all religiosity, however innocent of the sins which drew their ire in the first place.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
First, I'd be interested in some documentation. Since we "know" this to be true, it should be easy to provide.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Second, I don't see how this statement, if true, is pertinent anyway. The manner in which people nominally came to believe that there is/are being(s) that we might legitimately term god(s) has no bearing on whether or not he, she, it or they exist(s) or not.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
However, that lack of empirical evidence most certainly does NOT in any way support the contention that there are NOT such beings.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Actually, the word "god" is relatively clearly, if variably, defined.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
If anything, the more loosely defined a thing is, the MORE likely it is that that thing actually exists.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
...somewhere in this theoretically infinite and poorly understood universe, there might or might not be some manner of being(s) that would fall under the loose heading of "god(s)." That possibility is the one that I cannot discount, and that I believe no rational person can discount.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
You have in fact provided no empirical evidence to support the contention that there is/are no god(s).
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
You have in fact provided no empirical evidence to support the contention that there is/are no god(s).
Actually, the word "god" is relatively clearly, if variably, defined
Originally posted by Obscure
Theists imply that there is a god. Therefore the burden of proof is ultimately upon them...
Actually, the word "god" is relatively clearly, if variably, defined
[Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
As a matter of fact, the statement "there is no god" is inherently irrational, since, as atheists are prone to point out, one can't prove a negative. The simple fact that it is exceedingly difficult, and in this case almost certainly impossible, to prove a negative statement such as this means that it is axiomatically logically invalid.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
You honestly don't know what people mean by the term "god?" I would submit that that makes you unfit to discuss the concept.
For the record, a "god" is any one of a number of theoretical beings or forces that are held to be superior-- intellectually, morally, physically and/or otherwise-- to man, and, by many, to be in some way responsible for, or at least causal to, man's existence and/or the existence of the earth and/or that of the universe.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Is there life on other planets? Yes or no.
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Is there life on other planets? Yes or no.
Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Also, have you an opinion (leaning either way) whether we have been visited?
Originally posted by spamandham
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Is there life on other planets? Yes or no.
Maybe.
While there is reason to pose the premise (life on earth), there are also contradicting examples (the moon).
Now your turn;
Does Santa Claus exist?
Originally posted by spamandham
The existence of life elsewhere seems likely to be an ordinary claim, but the claim that they visit us and abduct people in ways that sound exactly like night terrors while leaving no trace of it behind is fantastic. Based on that I would say no, we are not being visited in any such manner.
Originally posted by Obscure
Danny DeVito is not taller than Shaq. There, i've proven a negative just show you are false in saying "you can't prove a negative".
Since you're making the assertion of god existing
As to your last question. We at least will have a way to test that question. Eventually we will be able to search other planets when our technology progresses to that extent. And since we will eventually be able to test this, it allows us to speculate on the outcome.
How exactly do you propose we jump out of material reality and search for this "god"?
Or this one of the several supernatural adventures we supposedly take after we die?
Where is the evidence? Claiming there is something greater than the material reality leaves you with the job of proving it's there.
You've done nothing to do so other than say "it's there".
Originally posted by spamandham
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Is there life on other planets? Yes or no.
Maybe.
Now your turn;
Does Santa Claus exist?
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Exactly. In the absence of empirical evidence to support either "yes" or "no" the only logically valid answer is "maybe" or "I don't know."
Santa Claus, as he is commonly represented, almost certainly does not exist at all, and certainly does not exist within our consensual reality. On the Earth on which I live, and I assume you must live, there is no toy factory at the North Pole, there are no flying reindeer pulling a tiny sleigh, and there's no man shinnying down chimneys all over the world on Christmas Eve to leave presents for all the good girls and boys.
Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
I'm curious, Spamandham, to hear why you regard visitation as an "extraordinary" claim while life on other planets is ordinary.
Originally posted by Two Steps Forward
Granted that we have no solid proof of these claims (and I'm agnostic on the subject myself, never having even seen a UFO), what about them qualifies as "extraordinary" in your view?
Originally posted by spamandham
Because there is no objective evidence of such visitations.
To make such a position hold water, you are compelled to start adding to it to explain how and why they are visiting us without a trace; zoo theories, world-wide coverup theories, etc. These are clearly speculative answers based on nothing but the desire to make the premise less and less testable.
If these guys are visiting us and leaving no trace, then how can people know it in order to make the claim in the first place?
Night terrors, hypnosis, false memories, temporal lobe epilepsy, fallacious conclusions and fraud are all well documented phenomenon that provide an ordinary alternative hypothesis for UFO phenomena (plus visits by gods and demons).
The claim does not differ in substance from claims about fairies, elves, unicorns, leprechauns and any other host of mythical beings. These are all beyond the ordinary, in that the premises have been intentionally designed to prevent the premise from being tested.
Ordinary claims are testable at least in principle.
If a claim can not be tested even in principle, then there was no objective basis for someone to have made it in the first place.
With that said, I consider the possibility of life on other planets to be an ordinary claim. There is a reason for postulating it as we have direct evidence of life on one planet, and are even starting to understand how it may have started by ordinary organic chemistry.
Uniformity suggests there should be other planets with compositions and histories compatible with similar mechanisms.