The Fat Man in a Red Suit Conspiracy

We all know this one! It started in NewYork from what I can tell. But should We keep it going? The one about the Fat Man in a Red Suit with 8 or 9 Reindeer. We preach to our kids when they are little to never lie to us, but we start off giving them a special day, like there birthday but that is not a lie. My Son was very upset the day he found out that it was not ture. He called us liars! For the next 2 years He was sad about the hole thing. He has gotting over it, but it was like we shot his dog. We have to have our kids trust us! We make this person out and our kinds fall in love with him and He starts to be part of there life. Then one day they find out.
It's a lie, just that. The Bunnie too! I would like to keep it up but just make it giving out things for the Birth of Our Lords Son.

My kids understand that Santa is a feeling,not a real flesh person. I explain to them that we personify the feeling of the holidays in santa claus. I expect that they will do the same for their kids. And hey,kids aren't as dumb as you think. Most of them know that mom and dad buy the gifts anyway.

That is one way of doing it. My Son was into it till he was 8 years old. Not bad for a kid that gets all As in school.
How do kids that are around 1-6 years of age know you are getting the gifts? You need to learn how to hide things better

Originally posted by Mr101Hazardous
He called us liars!

I don't have kids, but I had already decided that if I did, I wouldn't tell them these lies that most people tell their kids. This isn't a War on Santa or anything, I would just make a different choice than most people.

I think it's important that kids know that if they need the absolute truth, they can go to their parents. And telling them something that isn't true, and sticking to it every year only to have it come out that it isn't true, has got to be a 'lesson' for the kid to get their truth elsewhere.

Well in the same sense, aren't we lying to them when we tell them that grandpa, who is in the hospital on his deathbed, is going to be ok? Or that he's going to a better place, even though we have no proof? Or that nothing bad will ever happen to our child? That we'll always be there to protect them? Is it a lie when we tell them that everything will be ok?

The point I'm trying to make here is that sometimes its okay to avoid the truth when it comes to our children, especially when its in their best interests. I wasn't mad at all when I found out that Santa wasn't real. I just wanted my presents on Christmas, I could care less if Santa put them there or my own parents. But looking back, I am grateful that my parents let me believe the fantasy of Santa and let me enjoy Christmas the way a child should enjoy it. I know that I will do the same with my children someday.

Yes, Christmas is overcommercialized. Yes, for most of us the true meaning has been lost over time. Yes, Santa doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean that lying to your kids about there being a Santa Claus is a bad thing. In the long run, the joy that they experience over many, many years from believing in Santa and experiencing the whole joy of Christmas far outweighs any disappointment they may have when they eventually are told the truth about the big, fat man in red.

I think what is more important for us Christians is to teach our children the true meaning of Christmas in addition to the Santa fantasy stuff. They need to recognize that the true reason for Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus (even if its not the right date). They need to learn from us how much more important it is to give than it is to receive. They need to know how lucky and how thankful they should be that they are able to enjoy the Christmas experience, when many other less fortunate children aren't able to. I think that is the true Christmas spirit.

But I don't think that "lying" to them about Santa is a bad thing at all. I don't know a single person who is still mad at their parents for telling them that Santa Claus was real. Actually, I never knew a single kid who found out that Santa was fake and was mad at his parents to begin with. In fact, I think they were all grateful for the experience as well.

I figured out that there was no Santa Claus long before I let on to my parents that I did. I remember asking my mother whether or not there was a Santa Claus and when she would neither confirm or deny it I knew what was up. I continued to play along for the fun of it. Santa Claus is fun. That's why he persists.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Well in the same sense, aren't we lying to them when we tell them that grandpa, who is in the hospital on his deathbed, is going to be ok?

Yes. And I wouldn't lie to them about that, either. If I knew Grandpa was going to die, I'd tell them that. And I'd tell them I wasn't sure where people go when they die.

I'm not still mad at my parents or anything either, but I think kids learn not to trust their parents with lies like these. I think it's one of the reasons they start getting information from their friends instead of checking it out with their parents.

I can understand a kid thinking, "Well, they told me Grandpa was going to be ok and he croaked, so what do they know"?

What you have said does hold water. I know that sometimes you have to tell a little white lie to your kids sometimes.
But to have your child love Santa Claus like a real person is something.
I just feel bad that I broke his heart with something that I could have not done in the first place. Things we do now, little or small, make our kids who they are. If you ask your child to tell you some of the things you do that they have seen or have on there minds...................... it might make you think about how you act and talk around them!

And Thank You Benevolent Heretic!
You see where I am coming from here. TRUST will be the way to future

[edit on 31-12-2005 by Mr101Hazardous]

But is it fair to those of us who want our children to believe in Santa Claus at a young age, for your child to come to school and laugh at them and tell them that Santa is fake? Obviously your child is not going to just sit back and ignore everyone talking about Santa when he knows that it's a myth.

I'm sorry but I will always believe that the positive aspects of allowing your children to believe in Santa Claus far outweigh any negative aspects that could result when they find out the truth. I think that your child's reaction to learning the truth was an extremely rare response. Maybe you should have done a better job of explaining the positive reasons why you let him believe in Santa, and explained to him the importance of Santa as part of a child's Christmas experience. I am by no means knocking your parenting skills or telling you what you should or shouldn't do, it just surprises me that your child had such a negative and long-lasting reaction to learning the truth about Santa- one which I've never heard of happening myself.

Benevolent Heretic- I apologize because maybe my "grandpa dying" comparison wasn't a good one. What I was trying to display is the many instances in which we "lie" to our children just for their own temporary well-being. When you're in a particularly bad situation with your child, especially a young child, its always best to keep good thoughts in their heads. It's good to let them know that everything will be okay, regardless of if you're sure or not that it will be so. I think that would be considered a lie as well. But its a necessary one in such an instance.

Now I completely understand the point that Mr101 is trying to make here. I just happen to think that his child's case was a rare instance, and its the small gamble that you take by allowing your children to believe in Santa and to experience the wonders of it all. I think that not letting your child believe in Santa Claus when all the other children do is a major injustice to not only your child, but all the other children around him/her.

And Mr101, as a child I never "loved" Santa Claus. I'm sure I thought he was a cool guy for all the nice things he did for all of us children around the world. But I certainly never loved him. So to say that we make our children love Santa just isn't the case either.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
But is it fair to those of us who want our children to believe in Santa Claus at a young age, for your child to come to school and laugh at them and tell them that Santa is fake? Obviously your child is not going to just sit back and ignore everyone talking about Santa when he knows that it's a myth.

Fair? If anything, it's not fair for people to expect me to lie to my child. (Just becaue everybody does it?) It's not really my problem that many people lie to their children. That doesn't convince me to lie to mine. I would explain the 'spirit' of Christmas and that many people like to 'pretend' that Santa is real but that it's really just a fun story and Mom and Dad are the 'Santas'.

I would tell my child that it's best to let the other children believe in Santa because that's what they've been taught, but if he insisted on sharing what I had told him with the other kids, I wouldn't stop him or punish him. Just because everyone else is doing something that I consider morally wrong (for ME), does not mean I will cave in and do it, too.

I'm sorry but I will always believe that the positive aspects of allowing your children to believe in Santa Claus far outweigh any negative aspects that could result when they find out the truth.

That's ok. I don't judge you for having a different opinion of it all.

Benevolent Heretic- I apologize because maybe my "grandpa dying" comparison wasn't a good one. What I was trying to display is the many instances in which we "lie" to our children just for their own temporary well-being.

Yes, most parents do and I'm totally against it. I would rather tell my child the truth than set up a system where he knows that sometimes I lie to him. Period.

When you're in a particularly bad situation with your child, especially a young child, its always best to keep good thoughts in their heads. It's good to let them know that everything will be okay, regardless of if you're sure or not that it will be so. I think that would be considered a lie as well. But its a necessary one in such an instance.

Of course, I disagree. But I have no problem with the way you raise your child. I don't agree, but they're your children.

I cannot think of a circumstance where I would lie to my child.

I think that not letting your child believe in Santa Claus when all the other children do is a major injustice to not only your child, but all the other children around him/her.

Not lying to my child when all the other parents are lying to their children is doing an injustice to MY child? Sorry, like I said, you do what you want to, but I'm not convinced that lying is ever the best choice.

I don't lie. In my personal belief system, it's a sin. And I would teach my children the same thing. And lying is lying. Big, little, white, black, to adults or children, for 'good' reasons or bad. I don't differentiate. But that's just my personal moral code and I don't expect anyone else to follow it.

Rasputin13, You sound like the above average parent.
I am on Benevolent Heretic side with this one. What I call my little white lie is when my child ask for something or wants to go someplace, I tell them, "We will see". When I am about 80% that they are not going to get what they wont at that time but, I have changed my mind when doing things with them and got or went to where they wonted, + that does not let them think that they got there way just because they wonted it.
I grue up with my mother lying to me all the time about things. It made me look bad in school and upset me when she did not do what she said she was going to do. The one lie lead to another and so on. I made a promise to myself that I would never lie to my kids when I had them! BH You sound like You would make a great Mother one day in my book
The Santa Claus was a family tradition on My said and my Sons mothers. My Sons Grandfather Worked for a big insurance company here and They had there own Santa party with the kids every year. My Sons Grandfather did know what My Son wonted that Year and would put it in the car before taking him to the parity. My Son would Tell Santa the one thing he wonted most that year and like magic Santa would pull that out of His bag. The look on my Sons face was How could I not let him be so happy. This went on for years till he turned 9 . His Grandfathers Campy sold out to some other campy and no more Santa parities. He keep asking about were is Santa and he was getting stories form the kids at school that there was no Santa. So I just told him the truth. It was heartbreaking to him.