Originally posted by Hellmutt
Ukraine needs gas to survive, it´s very cold there now.
- Actually right now the Ukraine reckons they have enough gas in their reserves to sit this out a while.
Ukraine say they want to pay market price for the russian gas
- Er, no they don't.
They think they should move from the privileged subsidised price they were paying (which was around one quarter the market rate) to the proper market
price in a phased series of rises instead of one jump.
but russia wanted 5 times the price which Ukraine found unacceptable.
- No, that is simply not true.
Russia wants the Ukraine to pay the same international market prices that Europe pays.
They were paying a quarter of that rate so the truth is that Russia wants to increase the price from the current hugely discounted $55 - $57.5 per
1000 cubic metres to $220 - $230.
If the Ukrainians want to turn ever 'westward' politically that is their right and they are free to do so but why on earth should Russia continue to
provide them with such a 'soft price' for their gas?
Ukraine has insisted that Russian proposals - which would see the cost of importing Russian gas quadruple to between $220 and $230 per 1,000
cubic metres - are unacceptable.
Ukraine says it is happy to pay market rates, but wants price increases to be phased in gradually over several years.
Russia claims Ukraine is now stealing gas intended for Europe and that is probably the case as well.
- It would appear so, Russia has said today that they will increase supply to make up the short-fall.
Russia says it will pump more gas to Europe after various countries said their supplies had fallen by up to 40% after Moscow cut Ukraine's
France, Italy, Germany and Poland were among those reporting falling volumes.
Russia said it was sending an extra 95m cubic metres a day to make up for gas "stolen" by Ukraine.
But Ukraine is desperate and they don´t have much choice I guess.
- Yes they did.
They could have tried to reach agreement with the Russians a damn sight harder than they did and without threats to simply take 15% of what was piped
across their territory.
Gazprom has dismissed a claim by Ukraine that it is legally entitled to take 15% of Russian gas which is piped across Ukraine on route for
They could have gone to international arbitration (as they once claimed they would) long ago rather than indulge in this obvious 'brinkmanship' and
transparent attempt to get the international community (particularly the European part of that community) to put pressure on Russia on their behalf.
Ukraine has warned Russia that it may seek international arbitration over their worsening row over gas prices......
......Since the 1970s, the Stockholm Institute has become an established body for settling commercial disputes between countries of the former Soviet
Union and other nations.
Both Russia and the Ukraine are signatories to the 1958 Convention on the Recognition and Enforcement of Foreign Arbitral Awards, so any would-be
decision by the Institute in the case would be legally binding.
IMO it is absolutely no coincidence that this has been manufactured in this way and is happening as Russia takes 'chairmanship' of the G8.
What would you do if you were in their situation?
- Stop this futile and damaging attempt at politicing and trying to have it both ways?
If the Ukraine no longer wish to be so closely allied to Russia (as is their free and democratic right......which they have exercised) then that is
fine but surely they should not expect the old 'client state' benefits that they once had?
Like everyone else they can face the 'free market' and make the best of it.
Why should they expect any special treatment?
......and how come certain right-wing political elements within those countries that claim to champion the supposed sense and superiority of 'the
market' are happy to bash Russia over this?
[edit on 2-1-2006 by sminkeypinkey]