It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Science vs Christianity

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 11:57 AM
link   
As i have recently become a christian by accepting christ, I am having questions about things i have learned through my study of science. I have faith, i believe the bible to be the word of god and the truth. But where do things proven by science fall in?

Evolution has yet to be proven, but we have fossils and bones so we know dinosaurs existed. Also, we know the earth to be millions of years old, yet the account of Genesis to the present day is many years short of this.

I am not looking so much for non-believers too debunct the bible and derail my conversion, although non-believers opinions are welcome. I am fully prepared to believe the bible word for word, at the behest of science. After all, the alternative is unacceptable! I suppose what i am looking for here is members opinions of how science and the bible co-exist, if indeed they can.




posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 12:13 PM
link   
I highly recommend that you read the following letter, written by Galileo Galilei:

Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina of Tuscany, 1615


Do not sacrifice 'science' for 'religion' or vice versa.

True spiritual understanding combines both God (the unseen) and science (the seen) in a profound understanding that proves that science is actually the observations of the power we cannot see (God).

But, on their own, neither religion or science can accomplish such a seemingly impossible and often denied feat.

And I'm not guessing on this. Please just be patient and don't guess at what you don't understand and don't believe anything just based on others' recommendations--and you will get the point of understanding it all. Prove all things, because all things must, by the fact of their existence, prove God.



[edit on 12/30/2005 by queenannie38]



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 12:21 PM
link   
As a Christian I have wondered. But I have my answer. What most see as "evolution" is in reality actually "adaptation" yet the species is still intact. I believe in what is known as the "gap" theory, that is, that the world is much older than is believed by most Christians. If you read Genesis, you will see that in Gen 1:1 God created the heavens and the Earth... (gap)... and the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, and God said...let there be....

The heavens and the earth were both made, but then something happened on the earth to make it a lifeless empty planet. I believe that prior to mankind and the creation God gave him, the reptilians lived. This included the dinosaurs but also a creature called the "Serpent" or Serpents.
This explains why after God rested and said "It is very good.." that a creature as evil as the serpent able to get into the garden to talk man into rebellion. The origion of the Serpent creatures is unknown as we do not have direct evidence of them. But it is interesting that people who say they have had alien encounters often describe their abductors as either "lizard" or "reptilian", also know as the "greys". They were intelligent, fleashly, and had offspring and decendants.

To further my belief in a prior creation, notice how God says the same thing to Noah as he said to Adam. "Be fruitful and multiply and "replenish" the earth (do it again). When God was displeased with man He decided to wipe them away in a flood that covered the earth. It was the same at the beginning when darkness was upon the face of the deep. All life on the Earth died. God had mercy on Noah, but God didn't on the Serpents. If all of mankind were to have died, God would simply start again. He is after all the "Creator" and is not obligated to anything. He is Soveriegn


Fromabove



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 12:25 PM
link   
Well Science has a mean left hook but Christianity has a great uppercut when your not focusing.



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 12:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Well Science has a mean left hook but Christianity has a great uppercut when your not focusing.




Evolution = function
Creative force (God) = force

Two different parts of one whole--not opposing rivals.

Just like science and spirituality.

Science = the evidence
Spirituality = the experience

God is a scientist. The Scientist.



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 01:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by zoso28
As i have recently become a christian by accepting christ,


Congratulations!
Glad to hear about your new life.


Originally posted by zoso28
I am having questions about things i have learned through my study of science. I have faith, i believe the bible to be the word of god and the truth. But where do things proven by science fall in?


I've studied biology with a genetics concentration stopping a few credits short of a degree (job opportunity) and found no conflicts EXCEPT for professors and students who declare there is no God because of evolution. Just something to think about. There is no "Science vs. Religion" for a Christian. That only exists in the mind of someone who is trying to prove God doesn't exist. It's like saying the yolk proves the egg does not exist.
What's that mean? It doesn't mean anything to me.


Originally posted by zoso28
Evolution has yet to be proven, but we have fossils and bones so we know dinosaurs existed. Also, we know the earth to be millions of years old, yet the account of Genesis to the present day is many years short of this.


The Bible isn't dated. There's a theory that goes that one can extrapolate a date, but have yet to find it a compelling argument. Recall also in the Book it states God sees a thousand years as a second and a second as a thousand years. Our perception of time does not sound the same as His. I've no problems with dinosaurs existing, nor do I know what bearing it has on modern day science.



I am not looking so much for non-believers too debunct the bible and derail my conversion, although non-believers opinions are welcome. I am fully prepared to believe the bible word for word, at the behest of science. After all, the alternative is unacceptable! I suppose what i am looking for here is members opinions of how science and the bible co-exist, if indeed they can.


One of the reasons why I went into science was to learn more about God. Even if that is not an intent of a scholar, one thing is for certain. The smaller you go, the more complex the mechanisms. It's not like math where everything builds off of 1 + 1 = 2. Rather, in biology, the final product is 1 + 1 = 2, and at the cellular level you get b^2=[y(a+x) + b(a+y) - y(a+x) - x(b-y) - a·a + (b-a-y)b + x(b-y) + c^2]/2. Then your brain goes
"what on God's green earth is going on here?!" And thus your answer.

I've oversimplified by using an example, but basically the point...and what $48,000 has taught me.


[edit on 30-12-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 01:54 PM
link   
Excellent post, saint4God!

Sound reasoning from the mouth of a rational and true Christian!

And as most are well aware of--those kind of words I rarely, if ever utter...

And if I do, I mean them!



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 02:02 PM
link   
How do Christians explain the Australian Aborignes - I mean they must of been sons/daughters of Adam yet good old Jesus and his words never made it there?? Was God mad at them or something for like 1500 years..??

Can they not be saved or go to heaven..??

I think we have a conspiracy here perp's from on high....



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 09:47 PM
link   
From the book of Romans:

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
__________________________________

For all the peoples of the world that have not heard about Jesus, God will still judge for right or wrong. It is the heart that God will judge because we all have a sense of right and wrong. What separates a person from God's plan of redemtion is the rejection of Jesus. The people that never heard of Jesus will at least be able to say they never denied Him, not having heard of Him. But they shall be judged nonetheless.

Fromabove

[edit on 30-12-2005 by Fromabove]

[edit on 30-12-2005 by Fromabove]



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 04:40 PM
link   
Now how does that answer the question about aboriginies? It doesn't make much sense just as an explanation of the verses you cited--and especially as regarding the situation given in the inquiry.

Surely you can do better than that--after all, you are seeking to represent what you believe, aren't you?



1 Peter 3:15-18
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord.
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.
But do this with gentleness and respect,
keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.


Do you believe God is perfectly righteous?



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 05:11 PM
link   
There were people all over the world that had never even knew that jesus existed at all at the same time period. Funny how the only people that knew of jesus at this time were the ones that were in the same location. Why discount millions upon millions of other people in the world at the time? Where is the mighty all powerful force to let the rest of the world know of such a higher being? Too many holes and too less proof to sell me on the bible and the beliefs.



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 05:19 PM
link   
You cornered yourself with that book, should you worship god or a person called Jesus?



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 05:28 PM
link   
To worship one is to worship both

And what do you mean by cornered?



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 05:30 PM
link   
If you worship god than you deny your faith of christianity, if you worship jesus than you are denying god over person called jesus.

Clearly some groups have too much capital tied into christianity to have to worship a god. It's about job security and cornering the market on a belief. Consider the source, preaching to a bunch of illiterate surf. It is obvious.



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 05:54 PM
link   
trying to put to make the bible and science agree perfectly is going the wrong way. though i'm personally not a christian, the christians i know say that they find the hand of god in science. you must realize that the bible is a book of spirituality and faith, and science is a parallel (sp?) force to religion.



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 06:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by IComeWithASword
If you worship god than you deny your faith of christianity, if you worship jesus than you are denying god over person called jesus.

Clearly some groups have too much capital tied into christianity to have to worship a god. It's about job security and cornering the market on a belief. Consider the source, preaching to a bunch of illiterate surf. It is obvious.




It is quite obvious that the Primacy of The Christ was settled but The Christ. You logic is fallacious; in that your assumption is fundamentally flawed. A choice for The Christ is to accept the claim by The Christ that he is empowered by his Father. Unless you wish: to call The Christ a liar or the Bible in error. If so, well then your opinion on this subject is a bit irrelevant.







Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.


Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


Jhn 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;


Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.


Jhn 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.


1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:


Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:


Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;


Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Hbr 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing [that is] not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.



Source



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 06:28 PM
link   
So who should I believe the father or the son?



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 08:42 PM
link   
Posted by Queenannie38:

Now how does that answer the question about aboriginies? It doesn't make much sense just as an explanation of the verses you cited--and especially as regarding the situation given in the inquiry.

Surely you can do better than that--after all, you are seeking to represent what you believe, aren't you?

___________________________

God is perfect in every way. Man has no excuse for his rebellion against God, and the entire Adamic race has been condemned because of it. God's law doesn't change because we don't like it. The scripture I cited talks about how a person's conscience knows right from wrong and says that if we don't know God by the law yet do the law anyway from a clean conscience, we obey the law.

Jesus died for the sin of the entire world. The sin of the world is forgiven. All a person need do now is either accept it or reject it. Aborigionies who never heard the name of Jesus will be judged for what they do know, but it is important to note that they also were not presented with the oppurtunity to reject Christ as well. This is why we should let God be the judge of the heart in the end. An Aborigonie who never heard of Jesus has a better chance at eternal life than those who have heard of Him and rejected Him. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ.

Fromabove



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 10:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by Fromabove
God is perfect in every way. Man has no excuse for his rebellion against God, and the entire Adamic race has been condemned because of it. God's law doesn't change because we don't like it.

Surely you've heard that those things have been fully reconciled, by efforts that were not dependent upon any mortal's thoughts or deeds? That the law has been fulfilled and the curse removed?


The scripture I cited talks about how a person's conscience knows right from wrong and says that if we don't know God by the law yet do the law anyway from a clean conscience, we obey the law.

It is not possible to 'do the law' and 'obey the law' simply on account of having 'a clean conscience.' No one knows right from wrong--until God gives it to them to know. And since the moment of reconciliation, everyone has that same ability to know. But it has nothing to do with having a clean conscience--the world still has an unnecessary load of guilt that hasn't been relieved as it should have been.


Jesus died for the sin of the entire world. The sin of the world is forgiven.

Right. It is a done deal. Then why still so much alienation and guilt?


All a person need do now is either accept it or reject it.

That's straight-up nonsense. Forgiveness is not hanging in the balance--God not only forgives but also forgets--completely. And both have already been done, once and for all. Literally.

It is not because of 'rejection' that there is guilt---the constant nagging to seek forgiveness when it has already been given is contradictory to saying that the sins have already been atoned for.


By his will we have been sanctified once for all through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ.
~Hebrews 10:10

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws in their hearts and will write them on their minds," and, "I will never again remember their sins and their lawless deeds."
~Hebrews 10:16-17


Either they have been forgiven or they haven't. And if they have, then it doesn't matter one bit who has heard and who hasn't. And if they haven't, then please explain the confusion.

No where in the bible does it say that God's forgiveness depends on our consent to be forgiven. It is acknowledgment that matters, but it doesn't change what's already been accomplished in full for all people.


Aborigionies who never heard the name of Jesus will be judged for what they do know, but it is important to note that they also were not presented with the oppurtunity to reject Christ as well.

Guess what? Neither were you!


For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
~Romans 5:6-10



This is why we should let God be the judge of the heart in the end.
Then let's do.


An Aborigonie who never heard of Jesus has a better chance at eternal life than those who have heard of Him and rejected Him. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ.

It is not a matter of man accepting God--it was a matter of God accepting man--but that's all been taken care of. Because of Christ we are all accepted.


Consequently, just as one offense resulted in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in justification and life for everyone.
~Romans 5:18


'Everyone' includes aboriginies, believe it or not.



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 11:09 PM
link   
Posted by Queenannie38

No where in the bible does it say that God's forgiveness depends on our consent to be forgiven. It is acknowledgment that matters, but it doesn't change what's already been accomplished in full for all people.
___________________________________________


Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus Christ

Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.


2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
____________________________________


It is not enough to say that Jesus died for the sins of the world so we are all forgiven, no worries. Repentance is needed to be forgiven. One needs to be sorry for the wrongs they have done and then to ask God for forgiveness.

I didn't write the Bible but have stated the scripture where it plainly says that those who have not known the law, but do those things that are written in the law, are a law unto themselves with their conscience testifying to them of their good or evil, all of which shall be judged by God.

In 1 John it states:

" If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrightousness".


I'm sorry to be the fly in the ointment but all the people of the world are not God's children. They are God's creatures but not all are His children. Some are the children of the Devil.


In Acts 2:38 Peter says to the devout Jews;

"Repent and be baptized every one of you for the forgiveness of sins..."


Fromabove



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join