Arafats gift to civilization

Originally posted by Jakomo
You know what, I'm trying to find it, but the name Arafat is nowhere in that article. Neither is Palestine.

How keen of you. Morocco is far away from Israel.

The �gift� I was speaking of in my title is the tradition that suicide-murder can be holy, that it�s a legitimate form of protest, that it can give meaning to an otherwise empty life. It�s a dark and bloody gift.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Arafat didn't invent suicide bombers, and to think that he is sitting around phoning suicide bombers and ordering them to blow themselves up is lunacy. Even if he's as stupid as he looks, everyone has advisors. Most certainly he knows that suicide attacks don't do anything to help Palestine.

Maybe you should read some more about the man.

Originally posted by Silk
thomas -

The palestine problem was not created by you or I - but by the intransigence or will of a number of peoples in our govenments. If the Israelis had accepted Maddagascar as a home as originally suggested this would never have happened. Instead of accepting that a group of well meaning American zionists chose to pursuade the president that it was palestine or not. We (the UK) accepted that position - and got ourselves blown up doing so - the King David Hotel bombing. We gave over Israel to the UN mandate - and whats has happened is history.

The root - as i see it is a group of Zionists who would not accept anything but Palestine and the Arab world who will not accpt or tolerate any presence there. And the cause ? - the reign of the Holy Roman empire calling for pogroms and crusades - asking for Europe and by association America to become involved in what is a local dispute.

What you say would be true if one were to accept that the Israelis have no tie to the land they are on now, and that the Arabs did. Fact is, that is not the case. The Jews have maintained ties to their historic homeland for thousands of years, including a national language and a distinct civilization. To say that had they been forced to live other than where their homeland is makes no difference.

If the Israelis had accepted Madagascar?

That's as stupid as the white-supremacists I used to read about who suggested all black people in America should pick one state and only live there.

How you can justify a group making it's homeland on some island off the coast of africa instead of a land where they have thousands of years of history (proven by archaeological findings so don't dispute that)?

my theory is that palestine is a creation of the whole arab world to be a wedge against Israel which they do not want to exist.

thus it is arab shafting arab at the end of the day. So why all the bleeding hearts in the west crying for palestinians when their own brothers will use them as cannon fodder to achieve their own ends?

Seeker: DID I SAY MY OPINION WASN'T BIASED? Nope, that's because it is. When I say "All of us are" I count me in the "us". We're both frickin kettles.

Mycroft: Yeah, I HAVE read a lot on Arafat, nowhere have I read that he "invented" suicide bombers. Nowhere. You're just a rabid Arafat hater, looking for his fingerprints on every suicide attack or PLANNED suicide attack. He's one man, and he's a moron. He's no criminal mastermind holding together all the suicide attackers and waiting to deploy them.


The only thing worse than the Holocaust that has ever happened to Jews is the establishment of the Nation of Israel.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Great article.
"Fortress Israel braced for anniversary"

And how about this bitter pill, I linked the article below. Let's blame Arafat. More Jews have emigrated to GERMANY than to Israel in the last year.

www.upi.com...

"Analysis: Jews flooding into Germany
By Uwe Siemon-Netto
UPI Religion Editor
Published 6/5/2003 5:26 PM


WASHINGTON, June 5 (UPI) -- The turbulent relationship between Jews and Germany is taking yet another stunning turn. Seventy years after Hitler's ascendance to power and 60 years after the Holocaust, more Jews are flooding into Germany than into any other country, Israel included.

This makes Germany the one nation with the fastest-growing Jewish community in the world. Ironically, one reason for this state of affairs is the anti-Semitism in their countries of origin, chiefly successor states of the former Soviet Union, Julius H. Schoeps, head of the Moses Mendelssohn Center for European-Jewish Studies in Potsdam, told United Press International Thursday.

"Of course there are other reasons as well, such as economic considerations and the chance to give their children a better education," Schoeps allowed. "Moreover, they see Germany as a 'safe country.'"

As a result of this accelerating migration, the Jewish population in Germany has swollen from 33,000 in 1990, the year of that nation's reunification, to 200,000 today, according to Schoeps. Before World War II more than half a million Jews lived in that country. At the end of the war there were only 15,000 left.

But in 2002, 19,262 Jews from the former Soviet Commonwealth of Independent States settled in Germany, compared with 18,878 who went to Israel and fewer than 10,000 who were admitted into the United States. German consulates in CIS cities report that 70,000 more Jews have already applied for resettlement visas. In addition, thousands of Israelis, whose parents had fled to Palestine in the Nazi years, are now claiming German passports to which they are entitled by German law...."

I was pretty shocked to read that.

jakomo

jakomo,

hey man I'm not a fan of Israel or the jews either but that doesn't mean that arafat is a good guy.

he became very rich from his position and a lot of his friends also while his people suffer all around him.

no matter what he is not entirely on the side of his own people even though many of them believe that he is.

Originally posted by THENEO
my theory is that palestine is a creation of the whole arab world to be a wedge against Israel which they do not want to exist.

No theory about it, that�s exactly what happened.

When the Zionist movement started, the region was pretty desolate, the population sparse. What is Israel today back then was a wasteland of malarial swamps and desert land. One of the things that made it attractive to the early Zionists, was that nobody else placed any value on the land. There was an Arabic population, a meager 120,000 or so in an area the size of Texas.

When the Zionists started moving in, Arabs started immigrating too. Why? Because the Jews were busy draining swamps, building roads and houses and things. There were plenty of jobs to be had. When the British came in after they defeated the Ottomans, there were more Arab immigrants looking for work after being displaced during WWI, and the Brits brought in even more to help out in the war effort for WWII.

Fast forward to 1947. The Brits are getting tired of administering the area. Tensions are running high because the Brits have mismanaged things and left both the Jews and the Arabs with incompatible expectations, and there are Arab and Jewish militant groups running around killing people whenever nobody is watching. Arabs start leaving in droves because newly independent nearby Arab nations are rattling sabers, and they don�t want to get caught in the crossfire.

The Brits leave, Israel declared independence, and the # hits the fan. Armies from Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq all attack Israel, and some unfortunate malicious propaganda from the Syrians scare most of the remaining Arabs in Israel to leave in a panic. Israel defeats the Arabs, and suddenly there are about 700,000 homeless Arab refugees with no place to go.

The interesting thing is this: At the same time they�re attacking Israel, these Arabic countries are also expelling their own Jewish populations. While these hundreds of thousands of Arabs are leaving Israel and becoming refugees, about the same number of Jewish refugees are coming into Israel after having left behind all their property in the hostile Arabic nations.

So, how come in 55 years all these Arabic countries couldn�t integrate these Arabic refugees when tiny Israel is absorbing all the refugees they expelled? Well, because that would end the conflict, of course.

Originally posted by THENEO
thus it is arab shafting arab at the end of the day. So why all the bleeding hearts in the west crying for palestinians when their own brothers will use them as cannon fodder to achieve their own ends?

Exactly! Syria will spend millions to support terror, but they won�t grant citizenship to one Palestinian-Arab.

Mycroft: Wow, way to rewrite history.

"So, how come in 55 years all these Arabic countries couldn�t integrate these Arabic refugees when tiny Israel is absorbing all the refugees they expelled? Well, because that would end the conflict, of course. "

Tiny Israel is absorbing all the refugees they expelled? The Arab refugees Israel expelled or the Jewish ones that the Arab countries expelled?

Because it sure as hell ain't the first. Only Jews have the Right of Return, not Palestinians. A racist, exclusionary policy to say the least.

And again, you blame the Arabs for everything and you gloss over all the Israeli complicity. Because there's equal blame to be slathered on.


j

Arafat, has always had one dream, and thats to drive the Zionist into the sea! A powerless figure head, who looks the other way, while the true power, Hamas, and like movements, decied the fate and future of everyone in the region. Seria, and Iran, are the real power brokers in the region. Without their influence behind the seens, the chances for a political settlement would advance! Not something they want to see happen. Would they stand by, while Israel funded and directed insurrections in their countrys? As far as ongoing bombings, its interesting to note, that you never see older men, and women strapping explosives onto their bodies and heading to bus stops, and cafe's. Its the young , who are targeted, persuaded, and encouraged to act!

Originally posted by Jakomo
You know what, I'm trying to find it, but the name Arafat is nowhere in that article. Neither is Palestine.

Arafat didn't invent suicide bombers, and to think that he is sitting around phoning suicide bombers and ordering them to blow themselves up is lunacy. Even if he's as stupid as he looks, everyone has advisors. Most certainly he knows that suicide attacks don't do anything to help Palestine.

"Two Moroccan dailies - Al Ittihad Al Ichtiraki and Assabah - reported in early September that the twins had written to the chief cleric at a Rabat mosque to ask if their planned suicide attack was "legal". The cleric replied that it was not.

The sisters then contacted two Muslim fundamentalist groups in Morocco - Ahl Assounna wal Jamaa and Al Hijra wa Attakfir - who sent the twins documents on Jihad, or holy war, Al Ittihad al Ichtiraki wrote.

"This reassured the two sisters as they plotted their suicide attack," the paper wrote."

Notice the cleric said no, the wacko fundamentalists said, uh okay.

If it were the States, these two girls would have been plotting to rob the place with semi-automatic guns. Or do a driveby.

The strange thing about the article is that it doesn't say what they were trying to protest about. I wonder if it was deliberately withheld so that their grievances weren't publicized.

Seeker: "I don't particularly care for the author, but he is pretty much correct but its obvious that his opinion and thoughts will be considered 'biased.'"

All of ours are.

jakomo



[Edited on 29-9-2003 by Jakomo]

Nice job at editing Jakomo...I will start "capturing" your comments so that when I comment anf then you edit yours, my comment doesn't sound as if it "came out of the sky blue."

*edit for spelling*

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 1-10-2003 by Seekerof]

Seeker: Haha. I edited the "all of ours are" because before I had put "All of THEM are" but it didn't make sense.


I'll make sure in the future to keep you abreast of all my grammatical corrections.

Your comment STILL came out of the blue sky, I had never intimated that my opinion wasn't biased. That's what you read into it.


jakomo

Originally posted by Jakomo
Tiny Israel is absorbing all the refugees they expelled? The Arab refugees Israel expelled or the Jewish ones that the Arab countries expelled?

If I was unclear, let me correct that now. Israel absorbed Jewish refugees that had been expelled by Arabic nations. The number of Jewish refugees absorbed was approximately equal to the number of Arabic refugees.

Originally posted by JakomoBecause it sure as hell ain't the first. Only Jews have the Right of Return, not Palestinians. A racist, exclusionary policy to say the least.

If you compare societies, you will find that Israel has the least racist policies of any country in the region. Further, there is not a country in the world that would be expected to absorb enemy combatants into their own population.

Originally posted by Jakomo
And again, you blame the Arabs for everything and you gloss over all the Israeli complicity. Because there's equal blame to be slathered on.

And yet when I do blame things on Arabs, you�re not able to tell me where I�m wrong.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Yeah, I HAVE read a lot on Arafat, nowhere have I read that he "invented" suicide bombers. Nowhere. You're just a rabid Arafat hater, looking for his fingerprints on every suicide attack or PLANNED suicide attack. He's one man, and he's a moron. He's no criminal mastermind holding together all the suicide attackers and waiting to deploy them.

Jakomo, why does this upset you so?

Airline Hijackings, suicide bombers targeting civilians; can you find examples of either of these that predate the earliest Palestinian-Arab attacks? I�m not claiming that Arafat is behind every terrorist attack in the world. I am saying he and his cohorts have pioneered modern terror.