POLITICS: Mexican President Vows to Block The U.S. From Building Wall at The Border.

Originally posted by TristanBW9456
In my post I said that we got in wars for reasons that mattered was the reason I liked the us in that time. not because everything was perfect but because we had wars for a reason

Don't try to divert this post from it's topic please. The intentions for going to any wars by the US have been discussed "in other threads." This thread is about the walls being built on the borders of the U.S., it is not about any intentions for any wars that the U.S. has been involved in.

On November 4 of this year Republican legislators proposed a plan to build a wall between the border of U.S. and Mexico called "True Enforcement and Border Security Act" which was approved on December 16. This new plan also calls for thousands of new security border officers, immigration investigators, immigration judges, and attorneys. Mexican president Vicente Fox, vows to block the plan by seeking international support to stop the U.S. from building the wall. There is also a plan to build a wall between the Canadian and U.S. border which is being considered by the U.S. House of Representatives.

Is it me or does anyone here believe that this further reinforces the xenophobic nationalism rampant in American politics? This, a gruesome
legisation, only further fortifies isolationism of America in a global society; to build wall securing itself from Mexico and Canada only manifests a deep throbbing sense of insecurity..

Luxifero

Is it me or does anyone here believe that this further reinforces the xenophobic nationalism rampant in American politics? This, a gruesome

There really isn't anything xenophobic about it. Vincente Fox simply wants to usurp the rule of law in the United States and send his problem(high numbers of poor) to our country to deal with. Then he expects them to have free healthcare, welfare, etc. Thats like someone sending their family member next door to live, and balking at how they are treated when they are there(even when they were uninvited). Sign the guestbook at the door. Oue economy is suffering due to the high number of illegal immigrants coming in. Hey, there are answers:

1. Build the wall
2. Institute a guest worker program
3. Throw the employers in jail that hire the illegals
4. Increase the number of legal residents admitted into the country(make sure that they can read and write in their language,though-we do not want to increase the percentage of people not literate in this country. If they know how to read and write in their own language, then they can be self sufficient).

I work at a restaurant that has illegal immigrants filling every position except server. The other servers and I are required to turn over twenty-five percent of our tips to the busser/kitchen preps. That's fine, they earn it. Keep in mind that the amount of tax servers pay on their tips, is calculated by their individual sales. This means us servers are paying the tax on their twenty-five percent of our tips too. It's bad enough that illegals get away without paying income tax but when other tax paying citizens get stuck paying their taxes too, it's time to take a stand!

Once after a couple of drinks at our company Christmas party, I confronted my boss about employing illegals. At first she completely denied it. But when I told her I'd heard it straight from the horses mouth, she recanted and said they weren't illegal anymore.

That was over two years ago and as of last payday, all the alleged legal immigrants working at the restaurant, are still getting paid cash under the table every two weeks. Hummmmmmmm?

I have worked with Numbers USA pushing for immigration reform for the last couple of years. I say build that wall and please hurry!

Originally posted by elaine
If the jobs were'nt here for them they would'nt be comeing in by the thousands like they're doing now.

That's like saying, if those damn banks didn't keep so much money in them, the poor bank robbers wouldn't be tempted to go there to rob them!

My brother in law is in construction and some of the workers are illegal. One of the Mexican workers has to pay 87 dollars a week in child support. He has no wife and no children. He probably has someone's stolen ss#. His bad luck, that number is someone who owes child support! And even though the company knows what's going on they turn a blind eye as usual. Much more needs to be done about companies who hire these illegals!

His bad luck? He deserves worse than bad luck. What about the guy whose SS# he stole? What if he or his widow or children need to make a claim someday? Too bad, see the man pounding nails, please - he has your number.

from Luxifero
Is it me or does anyone here believe that this further reinforces the xenophobic nationalism rampant in American politics? This, a gruesome
legisation, only further fortifies isolationism of America in a global society; to build wall securing itself from Mexico and Canada only manifests a deep throbbing sense of insecurity..

Uhh... I think it's just you. The wall is not a symbol of xenophobia, but a symbol of reaching the end of our tolerance. It's a statement to others that we've had it up to here and we're not gonna take it any more.

Like I said earlier, if Mexico wants the wall to come down, then have them begin to help solve the problem.

It's analogous to a neighbor's dog that runs free and chooses my front yard as his bathroom. I've complained to you, and finally decided to put up a fence. You (collective you) instead complain about your dogs' natural need to relieve himself. His right, if you will.

Be glad I'm just building a fence instead of sending my kids over onto your lawn to relieve themselves.

quote]Originally posted by Boogie

I find it funny that people (mostly California) are so worried about not having illegals to do their work despite the fact that the rest of the country is having to pay full price to non-illegals.


What Californians, the Beverly Hills set? Greedy employers are the only ones I know of personally who'd miss their cheap labor. And yeah the rich, but the majority of Californians aren't rich. Before the invasion, there were plenty of people to fill the service jobs. But no one should have to work for sub standard wages just so boss man can get fat. But thanks to our brown nosing politicians importing cheap labor for the elitist, Americans are screwed!

Do you know here in CA an illegal can get a mortgage for a house! Imagine that with no valid identification! Greed conquers all it seems. By the way foreclosure is a booming industry here and there's lots of on-line courses now offered on how to screw over people and profit from their loss.

I can't decide which is worst, the exploitation of illegals or the betrayal of American citizens. A tie I think.

I can't decide which is worst, the exploitation of illegals or the betrayal of American citizens. A tie I think.

I'd give it to the betrayal of American citizens by Mexico.

There is no exploitation since it is voluntary, and initiated by the Mexicans who intentionally break our laws. If they would stay home, or immigrate to the US legallly, this problem wouldn't exist.

There is no exploitation since it is voluntary, and initiated by the Mexicans who intentionally break our laws. If they would stay home, or immigrate to the US legallly, this problem wouldn't exist.

Yes,but I think that an American that hires illegal immigrants is a sell-out to the principles that have made this country great. This country deserves better than their betrayal!!

It sounds like you want to put the entire onus on American employers. The illegal immigrants are responsible for at least 50% of the problem; if they would not break our laws and come here illegally, there would be no problem.

Altruists often have this myopic view of life.

Of course I'm not putting the entire problem of it on American employees, BUT they did start it up by lureing those workers in here with the promise of jobs whether they had legal status or not.
Anyway alot of Mexicans are very poor and naturally they want better paying jobs to support their families. The companies and the rich who hire them know this and take full advantage of it.

So I think it's also partially American employer's faults that we even need a wall. They should have to help pay for it too maybe (although I know that's an impossibility).

And by the way, banks don't hang up "welcome, come on in and get our money signs" to illegals. At least not last time I heard.

Rereading one of the above posts about illegals being able to get a mortgage in CA...I guess I have to take back what I said about banks!
Oh well.

[edit on 1-1-2006 by elaine]

Originally posted by thematrix
What does your problems with your neighbours have anything to do with what Tristan or I said?

Just citing an example of the problems these wastes of carbon create. As the comment was a seperate paragraph, it was not a direct response to any previous statement. How would it have been a response to you, anyway? The opening remark was in response to Tristan, as quoted.

It sounds like you want to put the entire onus on American employers. The illegal immigrants are responsible for at least 50% of the problem; if they would not break our laws and come here illegally, there would be no problem.

At this point it does not matter who started it. The penalties are not serious enough for the illegals to make a difference. However, money talks...lets go after the employers, and then the Mexicans will go home. When Americans see CEO's of companies get arrested, then they will wise up

There really isn't anything xenophobic about it. Vincente Fox simply wants to usurp the rule of law in the United States and send his problem(high numbers of poor) to our country to deal with.

Everything about is xenophobic and isolationist. By your token of unsubstantiated claim that Vincente Fox is propounding an ideology to his citizenry to traverse hundreds of miles across the borders to the United States, we can agree that Paul Martin may also be proposing the very same innuendo to Canadians, thusly, this presumes America's reasoning for securing that side of the border, correct?

Oue economy is suffering due to the high number of illegal immigrants coming in. Hey, there are answers:

But of course. Blame not the miserable politicians and their onerous fiscal and monetary choices when it comes to your economy, or it's vehement vunerability to corporate factions which supplant work to such third world countries as Mexico for cheaper labour costs and higher profit margins... but blame those very same immigrants who leave to country which lauds itself as the principled ideal for a better, fullfilled life.

3. Throw the employers in jail that hire the illegals

They should throw the CEO of Disney in jail for paying slave wages to children in Haiti.

It's analogous to a neighbor's dog that runs free and chooses my front yard as his bathroom. I've complained to you, and finally decided to put up a fence. You (collective you) instead complain about your dogs' natural need to relieve himself. His right, if you will

I thorougly enjoyed your comparison of Mexicans to Dogs; much expected, and fancy that it makes little or not sense, obviously.

Maybe a much better solution to this problem with the urinating dog is to help the neighbor which is problem instead of building a wall...

Luxifero

Originally posted by Luxifero

Maybe a much better solution to this problem with the urinating dog is to help the neighbor which is problem instead of building a wall...

I agree with part of that but I'm sorry what reason do you have to say we shouldn't build a wall? Giving people a job (at illegal wages) from Mexico is not helping solve Mexico's problems. If Canada is so concerned about Mexico then why don't they pitch in to help too?

The dual fence needs to go up and at the same time we all (Canada, Mexico, and the US) need to figure out how we can best help each other. If America wasn't so damn broke, I'd suggest a Marshall Plan for Mexico. The fence is saying that as Americans we've had enough of the problem with illegals and yes I agree that there are businesses in the US that are contirbuting to the problem by hiring them; they should be prosecuted.

Hell I used to work in a fruit packing plant where 90% of the workers were illegals. They were treated pretty poorly and got paid crap. Most of them only knew spanish and about 20% of them on break time were trying to figure out how to sell drugs locally to really make their money! I'm sure this goes on in other places too. Mexicans know how to work the system (I don't blame them), the problem is all of us know that and then people begin to hate them.

A fence forces all of us to solve the problem once and for all and hopefully in 20 years we can pull the damn thing down.

Originally posted by Luxifero
Everything about is xenophobic and isolationist. By your token of unsubstantiated claim that Vincente Fox is propounding an ideology to his citizenry to traverse hundreds of miles across the borders to the United States, we can agree that Paul Martin may also be proposing the very same innuendo to Canadians, thusly, this presumes America's reasoning for securing that side of the border, correct?

Unsubstantiated?

Jan. 5, 2005, 12:38PM
Migration pamphlet draws fire in U.S.
Mexico defends its guide as a way to promote safety


By IOAN GRILLLO
Chronicle Foreign Service

MEXICO CITY - The Mexican Foreign Ministry on Tuesday defended a government pamphlet that offers advice to migrants illegally crossing the border into the United States, saying it was trying to help save lives without encouraging people to break the law.
Pamphlet

Maybe a much better solution to this problem with the urinating dog is to help the neighbor which is problem instead of building a wall...

Luxifero

Of course. It's our fault that they break our laws. Lets help them. How, er.., I mean, how much? I'm sure you have a figure in mind.:shk:

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[edit on 27-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I think a wall is a great idea. As far as I'm concerned, the illegals cooked their own goose when they protested the laws of a country not their own.

They've become too presumptuous. Build the wall. I'll help. When do we start?



ILLEGALS GO HOME

I wonder what the percentage is of illegals crossing the US border with fake ID's ?

this being said, the procedure for law enforcement would be arrest and confiscation of the ID, not to be returned.
If the illegal being arrested cannot produce a legal US id then shouldnt they be deported ?
take them to the border and force them to cross back over into Mexico with NO id.
then Fox would wise up real quick by having to enforce the same laws that he is protesting the US does not have the right to enforce.......



Article 123 of Mexico's population law states that "foreigners illegally entering the country will be subject to punishment of up to two years in prison" and fines of up to $28,220. Such prison sentences are rarely imposed in practice.

Though I was not able to find much on illegal immigrants with fake id’s crossing the border, I was able to find a couple of things that might interest some coming from the local perspective.

First, please let me say that I am all for humanity. I do believe that all people should be treated well. I believe that people that follow the rules (laws) should be rewarded, and people that break them should be punished. That being said, I find myself in a bit of conflict with this particular situation.

While all people deserve to be treated humanely, there’s comes a point where one has to ponder exactly what they are giving up, or what is being taken from them, in the interest of treating law-breaking people well.

An example: Humane Borders
www.humaneborders.org...
While the idea has merit, and certainly shows an attempt at treating even law breaking people humanely, this is still something I can not agree with. Is this not somewhat encouraging?

And speaking of encouraging, I don’t know if any of you remember this one: Governor critical of Mexican manual (Arizona)
www.freerepublic.com...

Another example: 2 Illegal Immigrants Win Arizona Ranch in Court

nytimes.com

And then, after the illegal immigrants have come to the United States, violated our Immigration laws, never mind the possible violation of various other laws, received water and care from people believing that they are helping, fought in our courts for our land and won, there’s this one, just in case they are caught…

Mexican officials: U.S. to cover costs of sending immigrants home
kvoa.com...

The economic, health, and societal woes of illegal immigrants should be addressed by their own government. There are countless articles explaining just how much I am paying as a United States Citizen for an illegal immigrants health care, welfare, education, and when necessary, incarceration. Why?? As a country, we’re having enough trouble paying our own way. Where’s my free ticket?

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[edit on 27-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Well we should build the wall for the Reichland I mean Homeland. Why not put a few 1000 mines, a sentry post every few miles, add some ground sensors and or use the HAARP system's ground penetrating technology to stop any tunnels before completion. I have a feeling that is the technology that was used to shut down a major tunnel from Canada...Only my opinion though...good story link here on two mostly about the one from Canada though..And why not throw in some German Shepards just for nostalgia for the Holocost survivors?
seattletimes.nwsource.com...

[edit on 28-3-2006 by NoGrinia]