POLITICS: Mexican President Vows to Block The U.S. From Building Wall at The Border.

why would we need a wall from canada I mean the only thing coming from there is cheap meds which is a good thing. As far as a wall to the south I don't know.
It would be too expensive to have any bang for the huge buck

Originally posted by TristanBW9456
why would we need a wall from canada I mean the only thing coming from there is cheap meds which is a good thing. As far as a wall to the south I don't know.
It would be too expensive to have any bang for the huge buck

Because there have been terrorists who have crossed the border into the US from Canada, as well as illegal immigrants.

I don't have a problem with immigration into the US, but I have a problem with illegal immigration, there is always a group of people among illegal immigrants who are criminals/terrorists.

We should have a way to find what kind of people are entering our country, and make sure they are legally settled, this will help solve many of the problems we have in the U.S. because of illegal immigration.

The worse problem though is terrorists are free to come into the US through either border at free will, these walls and higher security in the borders will make it much harder for terrorists entering the U.S.

When the idea of the walls came up, I was disgusted. I couldn't believe that anyone would want to do that, but the more I read the more I think, darn. (stupid remark) I want a wall--to keep the americans in and separate. (/stupid remark)

All the Americans I have met are really good decent people, so were all the Mexicans, mind you I haven't met that many. The ones that come north in the summer with ski-doo's are nice but haven't done their research.

Probably the only way to solve this issue would be to have equal, economics throughout the world, then there would be no benefit to moving over one border or another except for the weather, then everyone would want to live in Mexico.

I agree that illegal anything is a problem. Financially a wall would be too constrictive unless there are a lot of Americans who are willing to scrub toilets for a couple of bucks an hour. You could get students to do the bad jobs, but only for a while. Like a couple of other people said the economy is too dependent on illegal labor. All our economies. The wall besides causing international controversy, would be too expensive to build and maintain. Then there would be all the American factories moving to Mexico to be able to use the cheap labour. There go all the jobs you were trying to save. Prosecuting companies and individuals for hiring illegal workers would end up entangling the legal system and costing a lot more money. Individuals might get nannies and maids from legal workers, but companies would get injunctions, lawyers and keep everything tied up in court battles while they keep their illegal workers, or just close up shop and move to Mexico, or South America, or China, wherever the labor is cheap. The capitalistic companies do not have loyalty to countries or political ideologies, they go where they can get the most money--their loyalty is to shareholders and owners.

Unfortunately there is no easy, fast, failsafe answer to the problem. Law enforcement could help, modifying some laws could help. Everyone would have to get on the same page and I just can't see it happening.

These Mexicans are moving here, working 100 hours a week, and their children are at an extreme disadvantage. I see it first hand. These parents don't speak English, and the kids do not either. My Second graders can't do their homework, because their parents are illiterate. They need to stay home and have their kids get educated in Mexico. At least their families are there. This gives them a support system there.

Originally posted by TristanBW9456
why would we need a wall from canada I mean the only thing coming from there is cheap meds which is a good thing.

Canada has, or at least had, an extremely lax immigration policy. There are also, by some estimates, approximately 50 terrorist groups operating in Canada. Indeed, there have been instances of the Border Patrol nabbing would-be bombers in vehicles loaded with explosives, attempting to cross into the US on our NW border.

I would hope that Canada would realize the benefits of working with the US to secure our common border. But past history does not indicate that. So, a wall may be the only option for us.

Originally posted by Sparkie the Wondersnail

Financially a wall would be too constrictive unless there are a lot of Americans who are willing to scrub toilets for a couple of bucks an hour. You could get students to do the bad jobs, but only for a while.

I'd suggest that we make the freshmen do those jobs.

Like a couple of other people said the economy is too dependent on illegal labor. All our economies. The wall besides causing international controversy, would be too expensive to build and maintain. Then there would be all the American factories moving to Mexico to be able to use the cheap labour. There go all the jobs you were trying to save.

I doubt very seriously if that would happen. No major American company is built upon labor from illegal immigrants. There are isolated incidents, I'll agree, but not the whole workforce.

Prosecuting companies and individuals for hiring illegal workers would end up entangling the legal system and costing a lot more money.

Well, that's too bad for them. If we make it too expensive to break the law, then they will be more inclined to obey it.

Individuals might get nannies and maids from legal workers, but companies would get injunctions, lawyers and keep everything tied up in court battles while they keep their illegal workers, or just close up shop and move to Mexico, or South America, or China, wherever the labor is cheap.

Enough of this doomsday outlook, please. You're trying to scare the reader with that outlook: "If we try to keep our borders clean, then the world will fall apart."

The walls serve several purposes: to stop illegal immigration, and as a message to the Mexican gov't ( and less so to the Canadians ) that we mean business. Want the wall to come down? Then do your part in fixing this problem.

If the penalties for the employ of illegal aliens become oppressive enough then businesses will seek employees domestically, the bottom line is what counts and anything that affects the profit margin such as penalties that are being enforced will cause employers to suddenly "recognize" the illegals and get rid of them. Why on earth would a business want to pay an illegal $10.00 per hour and risk a $50,000.00 fine? They would hire a domestic worker instead. All the government has to do is enforce and collect penalties which could also offset the national debt. I'll bet there are at least 10,000 private homes in Los Angeles that employ illegals (knowingly), do the math ... 10,000 * $50,000 = $500,000,000.00

You guys do realize that walls can potentially serve two purposes...

This wall can be used to keep people out of our country.

But it could also be used to keep people in.

Just a thought...

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
If the penalties for the employ of illegal aliens become oppressive enough then businesses will seek employees domestically, the bottom line is what counts and anything that affects the profit margin such as penalties that are being enforced will cause employers to suddenly "recognize" the illegals and get rid of them. I'll bet there are at least 10,000 private homes in Los Angeles that employ illegals (knowingly), do the math ... 10,000 * $50,000 = $500,000,000.00

Hopefully the penalties will be oppresive enough to induce the employers to obey the law, and at the same time help shape a policy that would encourage the workers to follow the law. I don't think we want to put any company out of business, or worker out of work. We just want to control the chaos out of the process so that everybody contributes to the costs, as well as profit from the benefits.

Originally posted by billybob
do these walls ever really solve anything? history repeats.

you build a wall, but you have not removed the source of the problem. it is like putting a band-aid on a severed arm stump. where there is a will,

[edit on 29-12-2005 by billybob]

Walls indeed work but you need the man power to back them. Look at the Berlin wall did that stop massive amounts of East Germans from crossing over to West Germany? Yes it did but it was backed up by alot of USSR soldiers.With the best military in the world on a border with a wall the vast vast majority of illegals would stop pretty much over night.

Chances are we are never going to get the military protecting our own borders though since they are busy protecting the borders of other countries

A wall is a tool that could indeed help the under manned border patrol. A wall plus things like remote monitering stations and UAVs can allow the Border patrol to do a much better job then their numbers would allow without a wall.

A wall would only do so much. Mainly keep the less creative ones out. They will always find other ways in. So a plan of defense should be atleast two fold. First, the wall to cut down the influx (I still say how about we fix the fences first... maybe put a little more water in the ravines). Second, some serious handling of them once they are here. Criminalize illegality (could've sworn it's already a felony in some states. How about making that stick). And conduct stronger checks on welfare applicants.

A friend of mine is on welfare. I will occasionally take her and her 4 month old daughter to the welfare office so she can get her foodstamps and whatnot. The wait is usually well over an hour, because the room is packed full of people who only speak spanish. Typically, we are the only ones in the room who speak english. Not speaking english should be the first clue. I asked the bilingual worker behind the counter if they checked the social security numbers of applicants. Much to my surprise, I was informed that they do not. They just keep them on record. Talk about a wide open invitation for these "people" to leech off a system designed for those like my friend and her child who actually have a birth right.

So a wall can only slow them down. If they actually get here, they need to be crippled. In more ways than one.

A wall is useless, look at the vast amount of coastline that the US has, are you going to wall that up too?

Its just gonna keep people in. Its really more of an intimidation thing. And also the "green card" system mentioned earlier would do the same thing. The us will just turn into a police state when they are finished.

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
If the penalties for the employ of illegal aliens become oppressive enough then businesses will seek employees domestically, the bottom line is what counts and anything that affects the profit margin such as penalties that are being enforced will cause employers to suddenly "recognize" the illegals and get rid of them. Why on earth would a business want to pay an illegal $10.00 per hour and risk a $50,000.00 fine? They would hire a domestic worker instead. All the government has to do is enforce and collect penalties which could also offset the national debt. I'll bet there are at least 10,000 private homes in Los Angeles that employ illegals (knowingly), do the math ... 10,000 * $50,000 = $500,000,000.00

I metioned this earlier, but it is obvious the government does not have the resoruces (funding) to check on illegal workersin the US. I work at a place that has hired Hispanics and it is kind of obvious they are illegal, but they have forged documents that look good enough to the employeer.

What is needed is a system that Employeers can use, to check on potetional employee's to see if they are illegal or not. Then if they are found to have knowingly hired illegals you immidiatly slap them with a 10k fine.

Right now the Immigration comes around and finds the illegals and then warns the employer to get rid of them or get fined. The employeer obviosuly complies and hires 10 more illegals to replace the ones that "got caught"

Stricker measures need to be enforced.

and quite honestly, if terrorists want to get into the united states... there are easy ways to do so, taht can circumvent any border wall, or coast guards

It seems to me that some that are responding in a positive way here was dead against Israel building their wall on the West Bank comparing Israel to East Germany. What gives? Don't get me wrong. I'm all for secure borders and coastlines. I believe that a wall of flying, hot lead should do the trick though!

I don't think anyone thinks a wall or fence solves this problem, but it will stop a lot of problems we have had on the border. Just like a seat belt may not save your life in every accident, most of the time it does its job. And yes they will start using the water to sneak into the US but that is not as easy as you might think.

Tristan...no the Great Wall didn't work every time, but if you check out the history you will find it was quite successful. It was built to stop Mongol nomads (illegals of that day), not to stop an organized Mongol army. I don't think a US built fence or any fence is going to stop an army.

There will always be illegal border crossings, but do you want a 1,000 people to sneak across every year or a million?

I honestly love the Mexican culture, but I don't like seeing my country getting ripped off. I really want Mexico to grow economically from within and I think the US should help in every way possible. We need to take care of Canada and Mexico and make sure they are growing with us. And Mexico's people need to say no more to corruption and crime...and demand the best education for all of their people. Look at India, they are killing the US with the amount of talent they now have in the high tech industries...why Mexico can't try this same thing is strange.

Humm...you know what I keep noticing? I remember a while back there were many members who were bashing the government for not doing anything about our borders. In fact, in some of the past threads we have had about this topic, most, if not all members, were bashing the government for not doing anything about the borders.

Now that the government is doing something about it, there are many members bashing the government "FOR DOING SOMETHING ABOUT OUR OPEN BORDERS"..........

I tell ya, some people are never going to be happy....

Another case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't"......

[edit on 30-12-2005 by Muaddib]

Not me, Muaddib, i say put up those walls NOW. We will deal with the ones already here in due time.
No one has a right to be here illegally. Not anymore than any other country would have illegals. Whats the matter with the wall?

Its about time and a positive thing, and lord knows there havent been many positive things lately.

Some of us that live in the border states would prefer a 67,000 hole golf course rather than a wall. We could make all the Muhados legal and use them a greens keepers, bartenders, pool boys, etc. All the golfers on the course could keep an eye out for terrorists and if need be, give them a good crack with a nine iorn. Just a little sarcasm here to point out that most of the land the wall would be built on is PRIVATE land. Does this make a difference?

Originally posted by whaaa
Some of us that live in the border states would prefer a 67,000 hole golf course rather than a wall. We could make all the Muhados legal and use them a greens keepers, bartenders, pool boys, etc. All the golfers on the course could keep an eye out for terrorists and if need be, give them a good crack with a nine iorn. Just a little sarcasm here to point out that most of the land the wall would be built on is PRIVATE land. Does this make a difference?

I see, so you are one of those people who lives in the border and wants more crimes from some of the illegal Mexicans who have murdered and even invaded homes and commited other crimes in the U.S. towns and homes that are close to the border?