human cloning and the Raelian movement

Hello all, i'm new here.

I know of the few secret societies and have researched into them, but none with the belief of extra-terrestial life. The company CloneAid (www.cloneaid.com) is the first human cloning company in the world and has successfully cloned a baby back in december 27, 2002. If you all remember it was in most news stories.

Well Raël, the well-known spiritual leader of the Raelian Movement, the world's largest UFO-related organization numbering 60,000 members in almost 100 countries, founded Clonaid, the first company offering to clone human beings.

Now my question is anyone here knowledgeable in this group's beliefs, ethics, or rituals?

As far as I know cloneaid has not presented any proof of their claims of successfully cloning a human.

There is plenty of information on the Raelian's beliefs, ethics, and rituals that can be found online.

Here is how I would try to describe them.
The Raelians were founded by Claude Vorilhon, now known as Rael. Rael claims he was abducted by Aliens and met
Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Raelians believe that cloning is the way to immortality. Rituals include group masturbation.
I wouldn't consider the Raelians a secret society especially with Rael's several books that have been published.

Now that you bring it up, I do remember a lot of talk about the group. Have their been any tests to prove that they have indeed cloned another human being?

Raelians

The core idea is that the ancient Hebrew concept Elohim should have been translated as "those who came from the sky" rather than "God."

So I suppose their entire religion was founded upon a supposed mistranslation?

Originally posted by therealdeal06
The company CloneAid (www.cloneaid.com) is the first human cloning company in the world and has successfully cloned a baby back in december 27, 2002.

They never produced a clone. They said they made one, but they literally were never able to 'produce' it for anyone to examine.

Also, the Raelian movement distanced itself from cloneaid after people started realizing that there was no clone. Rats/sinking ship.

Now my question is anyone here knowledgeable in this group's beliefs, ethics, or rituals?

From what I understand, Rael used to be a French Racecar driver, then he was visited by voluptuous alien robo-women, who taught him all sorts of stuff. The group beleives that clones will open a doorway, in some way or another, to immortality. This in itself is interesting and revealing. In what possible way could a twin of yourself result in immortality for you? Even if it were possible to download a person's persona and memory into another brain, it'd hardly be ethical, but I suppose that we can speculate that Raelians do find it ethical.

Also, I rather doubt that the Raelians have anywhere near the membership numbers that they claim, and I especialyl doubt that large numbers of their members are devote and striclty raelians, as opposed to being invovled in other ufo-religions/groups.

Did *anyone* ever think Raelians were credible? Did not the Star Trek costumes give away the joke? "Clone me up, Scotty."

Well apart from whats been said so far,
I know that they believe that humans were created by a race of 5 foot tall aliens that look like us, and that they come from the center of the universe.
And they believe that building a huge space port in Israel will signal the aliens to land, as that is where the aliens supposedly want one built.

As for the cloneing thing, there was a baby that was supposedly a clone, and they were going to allow tests done on a DNA sample, but at the last minute they backed out, saying that it would be dangerous for the baby and the woman it was a clone of, citing concerns of religious zealots and other groups may try and kill the baby or the "mother".

And they believe that cloning and memory/persona transfer between a body and a new clone version will provide us with the gateway to immortality.

The belive that Buddha, Jesus and Muhammed were actually people who were abducted by the aliens, taught stuff, and sent back to Earth to teach people.

There are two rumoured things I have heard as well, those being,
1. Rael was exiled from Fraqnce and now lives in Canada.
2. Rael says that long beards act as receivers of some kind for the aliens to talk to a person.

Of course I have no idea if any of those two things are true.


I am actually interested in the group, but there website is screwed up, and new membership requests get messed up.


Thats all I know about them.

I think...... Raels group maybe like the white version of the 'united nuwabian nation of moors'.. basically.. but not the same cause they are a different race.

The nuwabians go out fact bashing and detangling religions etc.. its their job.

They carry on from the Sufis, when time comes they go out putting the record straight etc...

Do you know Dr malachi Z york? Thats his main, old name. A grandmaster freemason of the ancient mystic order of melchezidek. (AMOM) He teaches (taught) about the annunaki eloheem since the 1970s, he was THE man ( rael calls them eloheem too)

York took a bunch of dead minded goin nowhere black people, gave them knowledge and built up a huge society based on the ancient egyption culture, in georgia, and built pyramids and everything (no not stone ones) He's a multi millionire, even ran his own newspaper! People used to feed of his info and churn it out as their own.. that could be fine but people twist it.

In the 70s, he was talking about holograms being cloned! check that out, holgraphic images being solidified and cloned!?

He said rael was another guy teaching about the eloheem, and that soon everybody would be teaching the same thing, black or white, because its time.....

Yet malachi gets locked up in prison..... cant buy his way out with all his millions, because hes too black, and to strong. But Rael is ok... hmmm

It makes me wonder which guy has the most truth.

I think 60.000 members would be a house warming party for york!

But .. as for to the raelians............... i dont know wat they teach but il go see their site soon thanks to you reminding me. I bet they dont give the same story of the eloheem,, jut like zeccharriah sitchin... whos apparently a shapeshifter i heard..

Sorry to drift off.



[edit on 6-3-2006 by syberkat]

Thats interesting.

Just one thing I'd like to touch on.

You can't solidify and clone holograms.

A hologram is a three dimensional projection, it's just a bunch of photons (light), light has no mass.

You could build some sort of android body that looked just like the hologram, but you could'nt solidify the hologram, since that would be solidifying light itself.

As for cloning, well yes cloning of biological systems is possible, and has been done for nearly a century.

You could in a way clone a hologram, to create another hologram as well, just take whatever computer code that's being fed into the projection system, copy it and upload it into another projector.


Anyways, just thought I'd point that out.

But, isnt 'matter' light solidified? E=mc2 and all that... sorry im no scientist.. it was old too its hard to remember, but he was definatly talking about holographic images being cloned n duplicated n made solid. Now you may say thats not possible,, and also the earth used to believed to be square ;-)

How can we say whats truly possible? do we have light years of advanced physics knowledge? nope. We know what we know according to the tools we got to measure with.. and they always advancing.

Checkout the holodeck on star trek Virtual reality, but it makes beings, that you can fight, and they bleed and die, its a holographic, but biological machine...

Like all our solar systems could be.. a biological hologramic universe..

I have no idea what im saying no i do, but,,, cant find the vocabulary!

Originally posted by syberkat
But, isnt 'matter' light solidified? E=mc2 and all that...

sorry im no scientist.. it was old too its hard to remember, but he was definatly talking about holographic images being cloned n duplicated n made solid. Now you may say thats not possible,, and also the earth used to believed to be square ;-)

How can we say whats truly possible? do we have light years of advanced physics knowledge? nope. We know what we know according to the tools we got to measure with.. and they always advancing.

Checkout the holodeck on star trek

Virtual reality, but it makes beings, that you can fight, and they bleed and die, its a holographic, but biological machine...

Like all our solar systems could be.. a biological hologramic universe..

I have no idea what im saying

no i do, but,,, cant find the vocabulary!

Ok, I'll answer these in order.



No, matter is not light solidified, matter is comprised of atoms.
Light is made of photons.
Atoms have mass.
Photons have no mass.

No one ever thought the Earth was square..People did use to think it was flat.

I can say it, because there are some things that are truths that will never change, light will never be able tpo be solidified, at one point in the far future, we may be able to slow light down so much that it's nearly stopped, but thats not solidifying it, thats just slowing it's velocity.

Ok, I will now explain how the HoloDecks in StarTrek work.

A HoloDeck uses highly advanced holographic projections.
The reason they can feel the holograms, is because the holodeck utilizes force fields, holo-projections and replicators.

The replicators create some matter, the force fields stop the person from putting there arm through the hologram.


I don't know the numbers, but I'm estimating that the probability of our solar system being a biological hologram thing, is 1 to 10Google.

Your interesting thanks. No doubt i need to read my physics and quantum mechanics and wot not. Maybe solidified is the wrong word i duno.

Your right , flat not square, but same difference, we are so limited we can only argue within the box.... point is to get out the box cause we are stuck in ABC mode on earth, and theres a whole alphabet to go through, you get my point. Im only toying with my imagination. I was thinkin like that 10 years ago before the matrix and icke and all that ive seen on the web.


I thought the faster the vibration the more seemingly solid n heavy things are? cause its all an illusion anyway as these are the vibrations we live as limited 5 sense beings.

Does metal atom structures vibrate faster than wood or slower than wood? its more dense etc.. so when you say we may be able to slow down light but not stop it... i didnt quite get, wouldnt we be speeding it up to stop it?


How about a little ..fake created matrix universe, inside of the ALL natural universe? well look how far we are goin now with computers, imagine where we are heading, look at virtual reality, its going to get crazier no doubt. What if when you do die you wake up on a table and remove the head gear? ;-) like the movie existenz.. they made a biological computer that plugged into their spines..?


When u mention how the replicators create the matter... couldnt there be giant cosmic replicators, force fields, planets acting as such? our planet?

Cant you take what you just said about holodecks and apply that in a cosmic way on a huge scale? (ok maybe not by your logical usual means)


Dont forget something else on startrek. They can make things with that other holo toy thing, if they wanted to recreate an old chevvy for example, they press a button and there ygo it materializes cause its a matter generating device.... its not real as such,, (man made) but it would be ..real. Or a cup of tea or coffee etc..

I know its just tv.. but its from someones mind, and theres nothing new in anyones mind that hasnt been done in some distant part of the all, by somebody.


All i know about atoms is they are just like space, 99% seemingly empty, thats the illusion cause all that nothingness is where all the creation comes from... dark matter is it? dark matter pushes everything through the universe, light isnt actually the best bit, darkness is... all the stars in space cant light all the darkness.. tho they dream..



And.. evrythings got a double? a counterpart? light matter dark matter. I hear theres suposed to be a twin planet to earth, spinning the opposite direction... and note our earth spins in reverse? ( I forget ) it wouldnt surprise me!!? seeing as we are all lost here in be-LIE-f


But if its true,, we may all be plugged in on that planet..... hehe.. lol


oh! 1 more thing sprang to mind... rubys,, light, lasers,, i know its not solid but it sure is gettin close now they cut solids with light

Actually i just googled holographic universe and it is a theory already out there! but im going to go read into it for a bit and maybe do a new thread if any good,, cause this is about Rael n cloning after all so im leaving it here.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by syberkat]

I actually read his books. I consider myself to know alot about him. You can ask me questions. Here's my basic Synopsis of the group. Rael is a very smart man with a brilliant philosophy, (I actually came to some of the same conclusions he did independantly of reading his book) however unfortunately he decided to create a cult to have sex with lots of women based on a lie.b He even ademitted to a childhood friend that he had lied to his friend about the whole alien thing. His wife now says that she thinks he created the cult to have sex with women, and that the whole cult was founded by a lie. She describes being married to him by saying that there were constant orgies and that their kids had to watch them. Kinda sick huh.

Originally posted by syberkat
Your interesting thanks. No doubt i need to read my physics and quantum mechanics and wot not. Maybe solidified is the wrong word i duno.

Your right , flat not square, but same difference, we are so limited we can only argue within the box.... point is to get out the box cause we are stuck in ABC mode on earth, and theres a whole alphabet to go through, you get my point. Im only toying with my imagination. I was thinkin like that 10 years ago before the matrix and icke and all that ive seen on the web.


I thought the faster the vibration the more seemingly solid n heavy things are? cause its all an illusion anyway as these are the vibrations we live as limited 5 sense beings.

Does metal atom structures vibrate faster than wood or slower than wood? its more dense etc.. so when you say we may be able to slow down light but not stop it... i didnt quite get, wouldnt we be speeding it up to stop it?


How about a little ..fake created matrix universe, inside of the ALL natural universe?

well look how far we are goin now with computers, imagine where we are heading, look at virtual reality, its going to get crazier no doubt. What if when you do die you wake up on a table and remove the head gear? ;-) like the movie existenz.. they made a biological computer that plugged into their spines..?


When u mention how the replicators create the matter... couldnt there be giant cosmic replicators, force fields, planets acting as such? our planet?

Cant you take what you just said about holodecks and apply that in a cosmic way on a huge scale? (ok maybe not by your logical usual means)


Dont forget something else on startrek. They can make things with that other holo toy thing, if they wanted to recreate an old chevvy for example, they press a button and there ygo it materializes cause its a matter generating device.... its not real as such,, (man made) but it would be ..real. Or a cup of tea or coffee etc..

I know its just tv.. but its from someones mind, and theres nothing new in anyones mind that hasnt been done in some distant part of the all, by somebody.


All i know about atoms is they are just like space, 99% seemingly empty, thats the illusion cause all that nothingness is where all the creation comes from... dark matter is it? dark matter pushes everything through the universe, light isnt actually the best bit, darkness is... all the stars in space cant light all the darkness.. tho they dream..

And.. evrythings got a double? a counterpart? light matter dark matter. I hear theres suposed to be a twin planet to earth, spinning the opposite direction... and note our earth spins in reverse? ( I forget ) it wouldnt surprise me!!? seeing as we are all lost here in be-LIE-f

But if its true,, we may all be plugged in on that planet..... hehe.. lol


oh! 1 more thing sprang to mind... rubys,, light, lasers,, i know its not solid but it sure is gettin close now they cut solids with light

Actually i just googled holographic universe and it is a theory already out there! but im going to go read into it for a bit and maybe do a new thread if any good,, cause this is about Rael n cloning after all so im leaving it here.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by syberkat]

Ok, again. I'll answer in order.


I don't admittedly know to much about vibrations, I tend to look at the non-scientific things about vibration with a cup of salt.

No, you would'nt speed it up to stop it.

It's making it not move, that's how it's stopped.

Well, yes the posibiity of everything being a virtual reality program in our head is possible, it's still very very very improbable, you'd need a quantum computer the size of a galaxy to do all the computations to create the minds of all the living things in the universe, plus creating matter, trajectories etc.

Replicators don't create matter, you can't create matter unless you work on a hypo quantum scale.
Replicators take the amount required from a store of existing matter/elements, trun it ibnto energy, and restructure it's energy matrix and turn it back into a solid object.

As for cosmic replicators and interstellar force fields, well, the power requirement needed to power such devices would be more than we will ever be able to create.

I can say with confidence that there is no twin of the planet Earth.
Though Venus is sometimes called our planets sister, because it is the most like our planet in the solar system.

There's no such thing as "light" matter, there's matter and dark matter, it's called dark because we can't percieve it, and don't know exactly what it is.

As for lasers, yes we can cut solid steel blocks in two with a laser, however it does'nt mean the laser is near solid, it means that the laser is breaking the atomic links of the object.


EDIT:
There are lots of threads about the holographic universe theory already, just type it in the ATS search.

[edit on 3/7/2006 by iori_komei]

you'd need a quantum computer the size of a galaxy to do all the computations to create the minds of all the living things in the universe, plus creating matter, trajectories etc.

OK, bare that in mind look at the size of ... THE ALL that is, all of space, beyond etc... if there is a beyond..

Couldnt this thing you say we would need, MAYBE already be around?

And if you say no... how do you KNOW this quantum galaxy sized computer doesnt exist? Probability? worked out by how?

We cant keep saying IS.. or IS not, not everything IS.. thats too definate and the only ..thing for want of words that IS... is the ALL, it IS infinite.. but 'sum'-things change, sums add up to things..... things only 'exist' if we can measure them... but our definition of existing is limited to human measurement. I hope i make a little sense out of all my crap? its just late and i like to think about this 1 at these times.


By the way..

to create 'the minds' of all the living things in the universe

The ALL is mind... did you forget that? there are no 'minds'... we all tap into The Mind... but cause we are all wired differently in our brains, we access it differently.. and also the DNA comes into it. But you see, people must think the mind is in their brains, its not.

All is connected by mind,,all that is without is within...

Thats what i know.. as above, so below.

oh and as for this tho!

I can say with confidence that there is no twin of the planet Earth.

No you cant. How can you? prove its not there? i cant prove its there.

what if its in the dark matter? you cant see that.

If every atom has a counterpart / double ,,,, why can not a solar system have its double? twin etc.. slightly different? it makes perfect rational sense to me.

A solar system looks like a big atom.. and that too is as invisible as atoms are to us, in the vastness of THE ALL ?


And im looking at black holes ... and i look on my desktop,,, and i have a recycle bin... and im thinking, black hole, recycle bin ? do we yet know whats on the other side of black holes? they draw every -thing into a singularity...

Thats all i know about black holes, so much other info im dealing with il get round to my space and quantum thinking...

Cause thats what its about? all is huge, first it was physics, then quantum physics cause we could go deper, now its metaphysics.

I doubt a psychologist would like a parapsychologists views, or a christian priest like a hardcore mad scientist... but thats the problem at the moment,.

(off topic again! science and spirituallity are at war... and its time to blend them all under Universal Common Sense.

peace

[edit on 8-3-2006 by syberkat]

raels teachings sound like the product of a salvia trip