the great boogyman

yes, i'm talking about satan and the antichrist. i believe them to be nothing more than boogyman figures used by evangelicals to gain comfort in their beliefs and gain more people for their ministries.

it's nothing more than a huge conspiracy.

i'd like to hear the thoughts of others.

now play nice

i would have to agree with you

when the church came into being, it used these fears to cement its power over the people. now even though the church isnt quite as powerful and influential as it was then, these same fears are still used to at least keep its power continuing.

Also, people needed something to explain the bad things that happen in life. these demons served this purpose as well.

fear is still the most effective way to control a large amount of people, but I do believe many people are beginning to see it for what it is.. a boogeyman story, as you put it.

Originally posted by junglejake





Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Trollin' for big northern
Walleye!
[the song is actually entertaining]

Seriously, why would anyone expect someone as anti-religion as yourself to believe in the tenants of a religion? Are you looking for points or just controversy with this thread?

this isnt about being anti religion jake, this is about the origin of these demons and how they work in the church dogma. his post is not trolling at all. if anything your post is useless as it contributed nothing to this conversation.. if you don't like what you see then don't post. everyone is entitled to an opinion or a having a theory whether it being right or wrong.

back on topic..

i forgot to mention the balance needed between good and evil forces to keep the world... well, balanced. religions were created to explain many natural occurances in the world. this is why in such things as greek, roman and eqyptian cultures they had gods for the seasons and gods for the sea and such. it eventually evolved into one being who controlled everything, and the church realized they needed a way to control the people, so they created satan and his demons... and what a great story too, the fall from grace and the battle and such. it really is a great piece of literature.

The fact that there is good and evil in the world should say something about the workings of Satan. All that he wants is for you to reject any thought of God altogether and he seems to be doing a real good job of it. There is no way an unbeliever can relate to God,Satan, etc. It's all based on faith unless you've actually had experiences concerning demonic activity.
But satan is only a boogy man if you desire him to be so. He'll do what it takes to prevent you from believing.

But I have to ask.... what is the conspiracy ?

Frromabove

If you are saying that you do not believe in Satan or the Devil, somewhere in your life you have been misguided in the reality of Satan. He is as real as the subject you started. I wonder if you have ever been to a church? How is your life? Do you believe in God? Man I don't see how you can get through this world in not believing in the Devil. He is in the air, water, and wind just waiting to recruit more people into his fold.
If you want to really know about the reality of Satan, read the last book in the Bible; the book of Revelation. Take a good look with an open mind, and then tell me you do not believe and in the meantime, I'll pray for God to open your tightly shut eyes because you'll probaly need all the help you can get. Good luck in life.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by FLYIN HIGH]

Originally posted by Fromabove
The fact that there is good and evil in the world should say something about the workings of Satan. All that he wants is for you to reject any thought of God altogether and he seems to be doing a real good job of it. There is no way an unbeliever can relate to God,Satan, etc. It's all based on faith unless you've actually had experiences concerning demonic activity.
But satan is only a boogy man if you desire him to be so. He'll do what it takes to prevent you from believing.

But I have to ask.... what is the conspiracy ?

Fromabove

not questioning their existence, only the use of their existence to exert control. the conspiracy is in the exploitation of belief.

Fromabove

not questioning their existence, only the use of their existence to exert control. the conspiracy is in the exploitation of belief.

But, if you believe that demons and Satan exist, why would you want that information suppressed?

I am trying to see your point of view on this. You feel that the teachings of satan exert control. But, if you believe in Satan, surely you would know that denying he has any power, gives HIM control.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
yes, i'm talking about satan and the antichrist. i believe them to be nothing more than boogyman figures used by evangelicals to gain comfort in their beliefs and gain more people for their ministries.

it's nothing more than a huge conspiracy.

i'd like to hear the thoughts of others.

now play nice

Your gettin close there. The boogie man/satin/devil aka all the above has been around since man since we have free will and make our own decisions we we gather our own fruit, Religion is to lead us and keep us away from the bad things life can bring and do to us. But like you said it profitable too. I would like to see the amount in spending posted in relation the church and state... But the devil you speak of has troubled man since the dawn of time fact: evil does exist its our free will to figure out the diffrence some have a harder time with this than others

Originally posted by llpoolej


Fromabove

not questioning their existence, only the use of their existence to exert control. the conspiracy is in the exploitation of belief.

But, if you believe that demons and Satan exist, why would you want that information suppressed?

I am trying to see your point of view on this. You feel that the teachings of satan exert control. But, if you believe in Satan, surely you would know that denying he has any power, gives HIM control.

what i'm trying to say is that i don't know if they exist, but that's not what the thread is about. the tread is supposed to be about the use of these figures to incite fear, hatred, and exert control.

there is no such thing as satan the diety...there is such a thing as evil though...
man alone creates and cultivates this evil through bad karma created from bad intentions.....man created satan so that he could look himself in the mirror in the morning.....so he didnt have to fix the real problem , himself....
its so much easier to live your life the way you want when you can blame the evil on "satan"......the church and other religions jumped on this as a form of crowd control and recruitment......do this..join us or you will be with satan.........

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
yes, i'm talking about satan and the antichrist. i believe them to be nothing more than boogyman figures used by evangelicals to gain comfort in their beliefs and gain more people for their ministries.

Then you say this


what i'm trying to say is that i don't know if they exist, but that's not what the thread is about. the tread is supposed to be about the use of these figures to incite fear, hatred, and exert control.
i

What I am trying to say, is that if one believes they are real, than it is hard to say that teaching that, is to exert control. Sounds more like a warning.

In all my church going years, I don't think I ever heard a sermon on demons or hell. I have heard sermons on the influence of evil, but no hellfire and damnation. I personally, through many different churches, have only heard how to live right, not that I am living wrong.

So, I don't see(personally) that there is a huge conspiracy to be controlled by the pulpit through fear

they dont need to do it anymore because they already have established control.

they established that control way back in the beginning of the church.

Satan is a fallen rebellios angel. He is an actual identity who feels, works, and is very busy at his work. He hates God because he wants to be a "god". So he is the enemy of God and has been resisting the will of God for perhaps millions, billions, maybe eons of years. Everything was going just fine as he still had free roam of the cosmos along with one third of all the angels that followed him. Since I personally believe that God is continually a Creator and has probably created millions of habitable worlds besides our own, I beleve that Satan has been very busy trying to get as many as he could under his rule.

After he convinced Adam and Eve to rebel against God, Satan thought he had it clinched for man except that God made this promise of a Savior to rescue mankind and the Earth. Now, as it was, Satan could kill any man he was given power over, and billions have died under his retirement plan. But then there was Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God. Satan wasn't sure he really was and when he got the authority to kill him he did so with joy. But this one act sealed his fate because he killed the innocent Son of God, and that gave God the lawful right to judge this evil act and so now Satan is on borrowed time until Jesus returns, and He will.

But Satan is hard at work and doesn't want anyone to believe he is real.

Fromabove

Originally posted by Fromabove
Satan is a fallen rebellios angel. He is an actual identity who feels, works, and is very busy at his work. He hates God because he wants to be a "god". So he is the enemy of God and has been resisting the will of God for perhaps millions, billions, maybe eons of years. Everything was going just fine as he still had free roam of the cosmos along with one third of all the angels that followed him. Since I personally believe that God is continually a Creator and has probably created millions of habitable worlds besides our own, I beleve that Satan has been very busy trying to get as many as he could under his rule.

After he convinced Adam and Eve to rebel against God, Satan thought he had it clinched for man except that God made this promise of a Savior to rescue mankind and the Earth. Now, as it was, Satan could kill any man he was given power over, and billions have died under his retirement plan. But then there was Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God. Satan wasn't sure he really was and when he got the authority to kill him he did so with joy. But this one act sealed his fate because he killed the innocent Son of God, and that gave God the lawful right to judge this evil act and so now Satan is on borrowed time until Jesus returns, and He will.

But Satan is hard at work and doesn't want anyone to believe he is real.

Fromabove

there are innaccuracies in your post fromabove.

first i'd like to point out that there is no biblical connection between the serpent of eden and satan.

second, the fall of satan isn't mentioned in the bible.

thirdly, the extra biblical reference to satan was as a prosecutor of sorts, playing the role of the judgemental hand of god. the word satan translates to adversary because he was the adversary you had to withstand to get into heaven.

now that those few are out of the way. most of your post is conjecture, without even biblical referance. i don't really have to point out anything specific because all of it is conjecture. could you provide some proof?

one final thing, why would a being that wishes to be a diety not want people to know he exists? it seems like an odd way to become a god to me.

you also forgot that satan doesnt want to be god ..he was exiled because he would not bow down to adam....thats why he was pissed off at god, but again theres no such thing as satan.....

plague, like i said before, almost everything relating to satan is either extrabiblical, pure conjecture, misinterpretation, or the linking of several unrelated minor demons (which were at one point mesopotamian (sp) gods) from early judean mythos.